User talk:Nurg

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Pre-Wikivoyage Talk Archive[edit]

User talk:Nurg/Archives

Welcome[edit]

Hello, Nurg! Welcome to Wikivoyage.

To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page. If you need help, check out Project:Help, or post a message in the travellers' pub. --Globe-trotter (talk) 12:45, 29 September 2012 (CEST)

Eye for detail[edit]

I've noticed your recent edits and you seem to have a very good eye for detail.

Also, your "edit comments" are a model of exactitude and succinctness; others could do well to copy these two traits!

Do you understand Hebrew? --W. Franke-mailtalk 10:22, 30 September 2012 (CEST)

Thank you. No, I don't understand Hebrew. Nurg (talk) 10:51, 30 September 2012 (CEST)

Talkback[edit]

Message at User talk:Lovysinghal#Central Tamil Nadu -- Lovysinghal (talk) 17:06, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

User merge[edit]

Given your admin nom, and the fact that you have already identified yourself on WT & WP, I went ahead and merged your old account contributions into this one. I also took the liberty of putting a link to your talk archives at the top of this page, but feel free to do what you want with that. --Peter Talk 20:18, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Peter. You're a champion. Nurg (talk) 23:30, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

bare-bones North Island[edit]

G'Day! Thanks for trying to help me with my problems getting google.co.nz to display hit numbers.

I was intrigued by your paring of our North Island article today, which is now looking a little lean. If you're planning major improvements, have you considered working on a new version of the article in your own user space while you kick things into shape?

(That's what I'm currently doing with a long term project of mine: User:Alice/Kitchen/South Island Circuit). Keep cool! -- Alice 22:00, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Hi Alice. I'm not sure what you are referring to. Do you mean North Island? I haven't edited that today, or even this month. Nurg (talk) 22:12, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
Yes. I didn't notice that these edits had been made last month. Still looking a bit lean, though don't you think? -- Alice 22:27, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
I see. Yes, it is very lean indeed. The See section (and Do) should contain an overview of the types of attractions. It shouldn't contain specific minor attractions, mostly located in a very remote part of the island, and mostly added by a business owner. Another editor had concerns about my edit too, but we settled the matter at Talk:North Island#Minor attractions in this high level article. Appropriate overview content for the See and Do sections is certainly needed. I'm afraid it is not a priority for me right now though. Nurg (talk) 22:50, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
Fair enough; thanks for the rapid reply and explanation. I'll start to think about what sort of content can be added to those sort of sections in our South Island article, since I know and like that island better. -- Alice 23:24, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Talk:South_Island#Regions[edit]

G'Day! After all these years, I still don't know what the attitude to canvassing is here on WV forked from WT, but I'll go ahead and risk asking if you would like any input on the above topic for discussion? -- Alice 23:12, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Hi Alice. I see absolutely nothing wrong with you drawing my attn to a discussion I may be (and are) interested in, and thanks for that. I am already aware of the discussion and am intending to comment when I have time to think about it. Suffice to say right now that I support the 7 region proposal. Just want to think about the boundary questions. Nurg (talk) 23:24, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
Thanks! -- Alice 23:42, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for your helpful and thought provoking comments today. On a tangential issue, is there a particular place in our MoS that prefers "20s" to "20's" when talking about an approximate range of temperatures? I know that, personally, I prefer the latter... -- Alice 02:42, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
Hi Alice. The relevant part of MOS is Spelling#Apostrophes, which says "Plurals should not have apostrophes (unless the result is ridiculous)". It gives an example for numbers, "1800s" not "1800's". Temperatures would be no different. Nurg (talk) 03:09, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for that, I've added a suitably short short cut now: ' so I can bug folks with more pedantry (only joking). I'm beginning to think this is a Singaporean disease, the desire to know definitively what is right and wrong - I suppose it comes from the region Singapore inhabits - there are lots of scoff-laws in SE Asia that say one thing in public and do the opposite when people think they're not being observed. -- Alice 03:55, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
Hey, pedantry is underrated. I wear the badge with pride. It's a dark and lonely job, but someone's got to do it. We pedants must just be careful not to expect everyone else is going to do it too. ;-) Nurg (talk) 04:02, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
I hope you don't mind, Nurg, but with this edit I just added some HTML code to your example to make things easier to understand (I think) for the casual reader and in violation of UUTP. Please just revert me without further ado if you think it mutilates your words too much. -- Alice 01:30, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Administrator[edit]

Your demotion is now official. Your mop and bucket are over here. LtPowers (talk) 18:50, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

My commiserations - at least you won't be on the Novapay system... -- Alice 20:33, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. Nurg (talk) 22:33, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Hamilton as a "megacity"[edit]

Hello,

I reverted the change you made to Niagara Peninsula regarding Hamilton, whose edit comment was "Hamilton is a megacity? Not convinced."

While it's true that Hamilton is not an especially large city (population ~520K), "megacity" is a term that's used to refer to one of the several cities in Ontario that merged in the late 1990s and early 2000s with the county, regional municipality etc. that surrounds them—in Hamilton's case, the merger with Wentworth Regional Municipality occurred in 2001, nearly doubling the city's population with the addition of suburban (and even rural) areas such as Stoney Creek, Dundas, Ancaster, and Flamborough into the boundaries of Hamilton. Now it's certainly arguable whether parsing the issue out this finely is useful from the traveller's perspective, but "megacity" is a word that has currency among Ontarians, and travellers to Niagara are likely to hear it used in reference to Hamilton.

-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:05, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi Andre. Thanks for that interesting explanation. Great to have someone with local knowledge. I now understand why the word is used, which had me puzzled. However I still think the wording is problematic.
  1. The word is used there to mean something different from its usual meaning, of a city with at least 10 million people. Ref Megacity at WP.
  2. The word is not used in the Hamilton article, nor in the WP Hamilton article.
  3. In the Toronto article, it is only used in the explanation about amalgamation and is rightly placed in quotation marks.
I suggest that if the word should be mentioned, it should be in the Hamilton article, along with the kind of explanation you have given above. I think its use in the Niagara Peninsula article without explanation or quotation marks is confusing, and even misleading. So for now I am going to reinstate my edit (additionally because it contained other changes). Of course, if you disagree, come back with a counterargument. Cheers. Nurg (talk) 22:53, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Country[edit]

Hi Nurg. I speedy deleted your deletion request, as there was already fairly rough consensus for it at the previous discussion and there was no real reason to keep it. Should the other MediaWiki pages listed at Wikivoyage:Travellers' pub#Admin request; Double redirect also be deleted? JamesA >talk 10:59, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, they are all in the same situation. thanks. Nurg (talk) 11:55, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Edit counts[edit]

I was rather intrigued by your comment here a while back.

How exactly does one easily count the number of edits a contributor has made on WT and WV in a specific time frame, please? -- Alice 03:01, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Nothing sophisticated. I just went to "User contributions" and counted them. Eight screens of 50 edits is 400, for example. Nurg (talk) 03:07, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the quick if disappointing response - I hope you knew some magic trick - it gets a bit tedious after a few thousand! -- Alice 04:34, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Reformatting badly formatted info rather than deleting it[edit]

While you're around, I was a bit puzzled by your edit summary here of "restore deleted info - best to reformat badly formatted info than to just delete it". Did the deletions take place a very long time ago? -- Alice 04:37, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Aug 2011 [1]. Nurg (talk) 04:37, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
You're inexorable, Nurg! Were you ever in the Mounties? (Naughty Ikan Kekek, eh?) -- Alice 05:16, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
Sometimes, I just don't feel up to typing all those lowercase letters for someone. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:27, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
I know the feeling.
If you use Firefox, here's a nifty little tool for just that kind of stuff: http://www.grizzlyape.com/addons/case-changer/ -- Alice 12:24, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Search engine optimisation[edit]

By the way, and still on the subject of naughtiness, you do realise that the arrival of the normal style of URL - space - anchor text is inevitable when some more technically literate and SEO savvy editors arrive in a few months time after the Google sandbox penalty expires? You're just postponing the inevitable and creating extra work by changing syntactically correct external links back to a footnote style - same with the AM/PM shouting and changing air-con to A/C...

When you come to edit this, just look at the text below the edit box. The part that says

"By clicking the "Save page" button, you agree to the Terms of use, and you irrevocably agree to release your contribution under the CC-BY-SA 3.0 License. You agree that a hyperlink or URL is sufficient attribution under the Creative Commons license." -- Alice 12:24, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

What's the Google sandbox penalty? It does kind of annoy me that I seem to be making these edits for nothing. I have no personal vested interest in linking format.Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:25, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
Your contributions will be read eventually, don't worry. With rare exceptions (I hoped, with our WMF hosting, we'd be one), new websites usually are penalised for about 6-12 mo.
However, what is killing this site's search rankings more than anything else right now is the legally oh-so-correct-and-good-neighbourly double(!) clickable hyperlinks with great anchor text (for Wikitravel) on almost every page here. Eg:
This article is derived from the article Tristan da Cunha on wikitravel.org/en in its revision as of 09:54, 22 October 2011 (UTC). There it is published under the Creative Commons Attribution/Share-Alike 3.0 License.
Every hour almost, Google's spiders report back the message that (except with newly created article pages) we are just the little brother mirror site of Wikitravel. If I didn't know better, I'd think that Peterfitzgerald, Texugo, WRH2, LtPowers and the other "old guard" were major shareholders in Internet Brands (rather than just naïve and SEO-challenged patsies).
Oh, and please don't strain my surgery scars by making me roll around on the floor laughing by riposting with that "no-follow" canard! -- Alice 03:38, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
I don't remember that. What I meant about making edits for nothing was when I edit out packed URLs. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:07, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
Alice, what exactly are you testing with the walrus page? Nurg (talk) 05:13, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
Eyes are watching, so it would be REALLY stupid to answer your question here. Keep watching https://www.google.com/search?num=30&newwindow=1&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=XpT&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&channel=fflb&q=%22Walrus+tickling+vacations%E2%80%8E%22&oq=%22Walrus+tickling+vacations
But is there something different about this compared with other pages created new here? Nurg (talk) 05:50, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Dalmatia[edit]

I notice you have been doing some useful reorganisation of Croatia articles. Could you take a look at Solta,Maslinica and Mali Losinj as I am not sure they are correctly places at the moment in the isPartof structure or referenced in the right pages. --Traveler100 (talk) 10:17, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

All 3 wrong, but all 3 fixed now. Nurg (talk) 10:49, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

"Daily" before or after the times?[edit]

I'm wondering if your recent change to our MoS was not a tad premature? -- Alice 01:17, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

It has been on Wikivoyage talk:Star nominations since Sep 2008, so it's hardly premature, LOL. Anyway, I have reverted it and opened discussion at Wikivoyage talk:Time and date formats#Order of hours and "daily". I don't have a strong view on it. Nurg (talk) 10:34, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
I meant that the change to wv:days was premature since it occurred without discussion either there or at StarNoms when the original nonsense edit was made un-noticed.
I'm a strong believer in our MoS rules being consistent and logical - that helps make remembering them much easier. If we are serious about saving space to the extent of suggesting M, Tu, W, Th, F rather than Mon, Tue, Wed, Thu, Fri then it seems highly inconsistent to have U.S. and UK rather than US and UK, and Square rather than Sq. This issue is just as simple: Seasons> Months or dates> Days (including daily) > Times is the logical and consistent order. -- Alice 14:35, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Germany[edit]

Thanks for fixing those image typographies. I usually check carefully, but clearly not on that occasion. Tony (talk) 09:40, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

You're welcome. Nurg (talk) 09:50, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Axum[edit]

Thanks for cleaning up my typos - I'm used to having a faster connection and consequently have a (nasty) habit of mking the substantive corrections or additions and then copy-editing any formatting or typographical errors. However, where you are having to wait maybe 20 minutes to make an edit that "sticks" on a very slow connection (re-loading again and again), this does not work so well.

You got the geo-co-ordinates for the Kings' Tombs spot-on; that's a nifty new feature isn't it! -- Alice 11:13, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Removing captions that state the "obvious"[edit]

may be an "obvious" thing to do, but please do not forget that they may be very useful to the visually handicapped using screen readers, Sir! --W. Franke-mailtalk 14:02, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

That task is properly accomplished via alt-text, not captions. LtPowers (talk) 17:28, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
Yes, that is indeed the best (and almost universally overlooked) way of helping those less fortunate (and also boosting Google search results).
However. this little reminder is concerning removing what was already there.
Currently, it doesn't seem possible to use alt text with this particular template. --W. Franke-mailtalk 17:39, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

NO change given for cash - Hong Kong[edit]

Hi, you didn't really leave anywhere to answer this question for your Hong Kong edit.

My experience has been on buses and ferries that no change is given if you choose to pay by cash. Taxis are however legally required to give you exact change. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 08:56, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the confirmation. I was hoping you were keeping an eye on my HK edits, just in case. Nurg (talk) 09:06, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Pub text[edit]

Hi Nurg!

I reverted your edit to the size of font in the pub, not because I think you're necessarily wrong to try and keep everything looking consistent, but because I think it needs to look welcoming. The extra space taken up is small and the larger font means that the page correlates rather nicely with the Tourist Office. However, please feel free to disagree! :) --Nick talk 00:58, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Premature (?) "sweeping"/cover up[edit]

Just in case you missed this? --118.93.91.14 07:38, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Are you in Lalibela right now?[edit]

Or have you very recently visited Lalibela, Nurg? --118.93nzp (talk) 23:55, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

No and no. Nurg (talk) 00:23, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

I'm not complaining, but ...[edit]

Over at User:Nzstays, the original spammy page has been "fixed" three times.

The original page was > 13K bytes, obviously marketing rubbish
118.whatever removed the links, left the rest
I wrote at User talk:Nzstays "This is not a venue for advertising. I am about to chop your user page down to something acceptable." and cut it to ~200 bytes and one link.
You deleted that.

I do not really object to your deletion, but it seemed worth pointing out that two others made different judgments. Pashley (talk) 01:37, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Pashley. I'll raise you one and say that three others made different judgments. Mathonius tagged the page to be speedily deleted. I didn't think that was a good idea so took the middle path of deleting the content. If you were to restore the one line of content, I don't think I would be bothered – but I don't think the page should be deleted, or tagged for such.
PS. When you add a new topic to a Talk page, I suggest you use the "Add topic" tab at the top, rather than editing the previous section and and leaving the default edit summary, which ends up being misleading. Cheers. Nurg (talk) 09:00, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
I think it's better to use carrot and stick with these touts to try and turn them into a force for good. Carrot them to get them to create a user account (we can better keep track of them that way - otherwise they'll just IP about) by allowing them a bit of latitude in describing their commercial venture and connection to it (with one link) on their user page and get out the big stick when they delete competitor's listings or list their pride and joy in multiple irrelevant destination articles. Really the more blurb they write on their user page the more touty we can think of them - but it does us no harm since the general public are never going to find and read their page and for us it gives us a better quick idea what kind of editor we're dealing with - robot, illiterate teenager or a nascent Dostoevsky. --61.29.8.33 01:47, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
"otherwise they'll just IP about" – my hypocrisy detector is red-lining for some reason. Nurg (talk) 09:08, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
There are many occasions when travelling that you have to use insecure computers - eg, in an internet café or in circumstances where keystroke logging (in the workplace, for example) means that there is a risk of passwords being compromised. Personally I do think there is scope for having two classes of editor - those who wish to hide behind an anonymous account or IP like you and I, and those like Doc James and Frank who are willing to commit to a real life identity. --61.29.8.33 09:25, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
I'm not like you. I consistently use a pseudonymous account (with rare slips). You are using an anonymous IP. I take it that you also use a pseudonymous account but I don't know which account. Nurg (talk) 09:56, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
We'll have to agree to disagree on that. Edits from IP accounts are (for obvious reasons) less anonymous than edits from an account like yours where you consistently refuse to give any hint as to even what part of the world you are in. And you know full well that I only use the account of Alice when I am not at risk of compromising my password by logging in. Alice. --61.29.8.33 10:12, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for identifying your account pseudonym, Alice. Unless you do that, I can't know it's you, as other people use IPs too. Nurg (talk) 10:23, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
Fair enough - I haven't checked to see if anyone else has edited Wikivoyage from this IP too. Off to do that now. --61.29.8.33 10:28, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Upload files, Upload Wizard?[edit]

Wikimedia Commons logo

Hello! Sorry for writing in English. As you're an administrator here, please check the message I left on MediaWiki talk:Licenses and the village pump. Thanks, Nemo 19:22, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Memphis air[edit]

You have the dubious honor of hosting my debut on en.WV. My talk page does not yet exist, but if you would rather respond there, feel free to create it.

I intend to contribute to the Memphis (TN) article. I came to your talkpage to determine if you are a native, as you seem knowledgeable. Perhaps not.

You are obviously quite busy, so it is understandable that you have not revisited the page in some time. I do not criticize. You have contributed much. I am a dabbler, but I try to do a little good here and there as a wiki-gnome. Feel free to point out my errors as you see them.

Delta Airlines, to my knowledge, no longer exists as such. To my personal surprise, NW bought them, lock, stock, and wheel-chocks. I will research further before making changes, but... Ragityman (talk) 07:25, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

WELL! Don't I look silly, now! Due diligence. I will still amend the article, but DAL seems to be thriving. 52.3 nil assets, 80k employees. Learn something every day. For YEARS I have wondered how NWA managed to buy them. aha! Ragityman (talk) 07:44, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

An award for you![edit]

Barncompass.png The Wikivoyage Barncompass
to je hvězdička pro vás Drancakova.barb1 (talk) 18:22, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Exploring cookery and tapestry[edit]

Hi, Nurg. I notice you copy edited that article. If you believe it's worth keeping, please say something at Talk:Exploring cookery and tapestry, where there has been a consensus to merge and redirect it to Esino Lario, though the logistics need to be worked on. I'd hate for you to spend time editing text that never sees the light of day.

All the best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:32, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

Thanks Ikan. I have commented at Talk:Exploring cookery and tapestry. Nurg (talk) 11:21, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
Please comment further, as the only things that currently seem to be standing in the way of turning that article into a redirect are deciding on a new name for it and creating a listing for the nursery/kindergarten. I'm a bit surprised that you're copy editing an "article" that would almost certainly fail a number of wiaa tests if we had a vfd thread on it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:49, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
I'm no longer surprised and see how you handled this. Thanks for taking care of it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:23, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
My pleasure. I was short of time & doing it in bits & pieces. I appreciated your attention to it too. Nurg (talk) 10:47, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

PDF creation[edit]

Swept in from the pub

I used the "Download as PDF" function for a few articles. The dynamic maps didn't make it into the PDF (which I'm ok about), but instead there was the gobbledygook ?'''`UNIQ--maplink-00000000-QINU`'''? It would be better if the program could be changed to leave that out. It was followed by "Map of Xyz", which is less ugly but also useless. Also, all the listings that had numbers due to having lat and long co-ords came out with the number 1, which is confusing. Nurg (talk) 10:08, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

@Nurg: For what it's worth, this is a pan-wiki problem regarding the maps. See mw:Maps and the Phabricator tag at the top of that page. —Justin (koavf)TCM 22:50, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
Comment added by Aklapper at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T70008 - PDF-related improvements needed at Wikivoyage, especially for dynamic maps. Nurg (talk) 09:26, 9 February 2017 (UTC)