Talk:Pyongyang

Elaboration to "Get In" requested...

How to

• get the paperwork done (Visa, recommendations, costs)
  • what kind of paperwork is required?
• how to really get there... description is vague
  • where to book? How did you book? Do you need to know somebody? Special reason for the stay required?
• etc.

All of these questions appear to be answered and addressed in the North Korea article --Andrewssi2 (talk) 22:36, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Understand

This is an important capital city.. surely someone can fill in the 'understand' section? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 08:24, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

The 'Understand' section has been empty for a very long time, so I have added some basic content. Hopefully someone can take this as a cue to expand? Andrewssi2 (talk) 09:00, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Changes to format

If you disagree with anyone's changes to this article with regards to the formatting, please discuss on this talk page first. "I don't like banners' for example is not constructive and can only lead to edit wars. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 22:36, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

That's one way to look at it.

Another stance is to suggest that fundamental changes to the article navigation are discussed here first before they're made - especially since I haven't seen you editing this article before. How do you suggest our dear readers navigate to (for example) the Pyongyang#Embassies section of our article now from this pug-ugly banner?

You may want to add your two pennyworth here. -- Alice^✉ 22:53, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

New English Wikivoyage banner sometimes produces an ugly result and currently does not allow navigation to the important tertiary and quaternary section headings (the lead section, although it has no edit section heading is, technically the primary heading) !

These changes have been discussed at length at Wikivoyage talk:Banner Expedition‎‎ and green-lighted for implementation in all articles. If you have a problem with it, go there and speak up. Don't try to choose individual articles as battlegrounds. Texugo (talk) 23:09, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

I didn't see any one summarise a consensus reached (I thought we had a template for that now?) about such a momentous decision. And stop impugning my motives. I've been editing North Korea articles for a long while. An expedition is NOT the place for such a huge change to every article to be announced. The pub would have been a better place. I note that you have not addressed my point about using a "consensus" template on such an important, site-wide change as this. - Alice^✉ 23:23, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

I believe the problem is around the communication of the banner policy, and not actually about anyone's motives. Hopefully this can be resolved at a site level. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 00:44, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

I would agree that knowing your country's embassy in Pyongyang is a rather important piece of information. On the other hand there are relatively few countries where this would be considered 'must have' information. How about adding a information box at the top of the article in order to address this, and linking to Pyongyang#Embassies ? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 00:44, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

The embassy list comes up clearly on your screen when you click the 'Cope' header, so that should not be an issue. As the others have said, there has been ample time to provide input, with nearly 2 weeks in the Pub and quite a while in the Expedition. Why is the Expedition an incorrect place to discuss sitewide issues? Non-members are not barred from contributing; most who have contributed actually haven't added their name to the members list. Back to Pyongyang, I removed the banner, not because I don't like banners, but because it was the incorrect specs. I explained this in detail at the Pub section where we're discussing the new TOC. JamesA ^>talk 10:18, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi JamesA, your comment is confusing because you are addressing multiple issues at once. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 12:01, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Expedition: This discussion is being very much continued on that page. Please do not address it here any more. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 12:01, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Banner Photo: It would be preferable for you to add your own compliant photo of Pyongyang. (Perhaps by editing the existing one). We will see if a compliant one can be found. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 12:01, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Embassy: As mentioned clearly before, this is a subject area that is more relevant to Pynongyang than most other capital cities. It is not a generic site wide question --Andrewssi2 (talk) 12:01, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Sorry if it was confusing, most of it was to respond to some of Alice's questions. Though I do notice that you did add the pagebanner that I removed. If you just crop the sides off the banner and resize it down to 2100x300, it'll be fine. JamesA ^>talk 12:03, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Alice, if you haven't noticed, that "consensus" template has rather failed to catch on, and at any rate, it has certainly not been established that such a template is required before the community takes action. As JamesA pointed out above, this issue has indeed been made available for comment for quite some time now, both on the expedition page and in the pub. Texugo (talk) 17:04, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Munsu Water Park

Munsu water park opened in October, and at that time it was unclear when or if foreigners could visit. Using Google, the latest reports suggest that foreigners can enter for EURO 10 at some point in the future. Does anyone know when it would be actually opened for foreigners? (A lot of plans are made in North Korea, although not all of them actually happen) I think the Pyongyang winter will make this question moot until June 2014 at the earliest... Andrewssi2 (talk) 08:08, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Some foreigners have already visited, although generally via invitations from government agencies. The water park is indoors, and has continued to operate during the winter. Ttocslliw (talk) 02:49, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the insight, although I'm certain that most of the pictures I've seen are clearly outdoors. Is it possible that parts of the facility are indoors? Andrewssi2 (talk) 02:53, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

The park is now open to foreigners on Saturdays. It costs EURO 7 for indoor access and EURO 10 for indoor and outdoor. On other days its open to locals for 10,000 won per hour. Ttocslliw (talk) 02:02, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

That is USD $11 per hour for locals! (official exchange rate). Seems very pricey, but I guess it is not exactly intended for everyone. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 02:09, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

The 10,000 won quote is in local currency, rather than equivalent hard currency. That would be roughly USD $1.20 per hour. Ttocslliw (talk) 02:56, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Bare listings

I'm moving a few listing here that have no information about location. Andrewssi2 (talk) 07:28, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

• Pyongyang Duck Barbecue. a good choice if you like, as the name suggests, barbecued duck. 

• Pyongyang Ostrich Farm. Specialises in ostrich meat. 
• National Restaurant. A variety of Korean dishes and often also has live shows. 

In most other places than North Korea it'd be easy to google those restaurants and get information for all parameters, but now I find just interesting travel stories... ϒpsilon (talk) 09:48, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Yup, I do appreciate that even if we can put detailed geo-coordinates, street addresses and phone numbers down, it wouldn't be that much use because your government appointed minders would still have to arrange it anyway.

I just found the listings above really to brief to be useful. For example the Ostrich Farm? North Korea is 'sort of' famous for these farming experiments, but is this actually a restaurant or just some funny anecdote that someone heard second hand and slipped in here? Andrewssi2 (talk) 10:39, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

, , . ϒpsilon (talk) 10:51, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

"Both of three"

Some extremely sought-after North Korean souvenirs are metal lapel badges depicting the faces of one or both of the three Kims.

How can there be "both of three"? JIP (talk) 07:10, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

Because it is a mistake? :) Feel free to correct. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 07:23, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

The thing is, I have never been to Pyongyang, so I don't know whether badges depicting Kim Jong-un are available. I don't know whether to correct it to "both of the two Kims" or "all of the three Kims". JIP (talk) 10:49, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

I understand that these lapels are given by the state to individual citizens, and that there is no way for foreigners to get hold of them legally. It may even be inadvisable for a foreigner to actually carry these, even if they are lucky enough to find.

I'm not sure of the convention for North Koreans to wear these badges in any set of combinations. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 23:24, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

Pins are of Kim Il Sung, Kim Jong Il, or both. Backgrounds can be red or white, and the shape is typically circular or shaped like a flag. There's a specific design that signifies the person has formally met the pictured leader. They're required in any public situation, although not required when working or playing sports. I read one report of a foreign tourist getting a pin after a small ceremony where he pledged support for the country, but that does not seem like a regular occurrence. Ttocslliw (talk) 02:01, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

So there is no pin for present leader Kim Jong Un, Ttocslliw ? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 02:12, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Not that I've seen. That doesn't necessarily mean they don't exist, but they don't seem to be common. Ttocslliw (talk) 18:20, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

OK, so I think you can update accordingly. Andrewssi2 (talk) 00:39, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Further improvements to this article

This is quite a meaty article and would be an interesting and unusual Dotm or Otbp feature (I'd argue for Otbp, as it definitely is not a major destination for foreigners from most countries, and probably from none), but it may not quite be ready yet.

Here are some things I see:

First, I gather there are no street addresses in Pyongyang? Nevertheless, as part of the update of the "Drink" section ("what passed for nightlife has dwindled as foreign aid organisations have left the country during 2009" needs at least a change of tense from "have left" to "left"), can all the places mentioned in the section be given full listings, and can any more specific description be given of the locations of the Taedonggang Brewery Restaurant and Diplomatic Club? I guess giving more specific location descriptions for "See" listings is not possible because they themselves serve as landmarks, and I do see that they are all given coordinates for viewing on the dynamic map.

Second, the "Understand" section seems inadequate. What about some words about the history of the city (not the entire country of North Korea, but the city itself)?

Third, the "Embassies" section has a deprecated style of listings that need to be changed to listing templates.

Anything else you notice? Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:42, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

It would be great to get the addresses in. I guess the reason there are none is that you wouldn't be expected to find them by yourself, but still we should have them.

I think Google Maps actually has fairly accurate listings for Pyongyang from which addresses could be derived. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 08:32, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page is missing permission

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page is missing permission information and may be deleted:

• Juche Tower.jpg

You can see the details at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:07, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Recent revert

@Ibaman: I don't quite see why you reverted this edit. The Pyongyang Metro has 16 stations, so a single latitude and longitude may not make sense. Am I missing something? —Granger (talk · contribs) 14:14, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

• It looks to me as a redundant, useless, empty edit. As it seems, I am the one who is missing something. I don't really grasp all the subleties of our programming code. I ask respectfully what makes this edit not useless. Ibaman (talk) 14:22, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

The "NA" prevents the listing from making the article show up in Category:See listing with no coordinates. That makes it easier for editors to find and address articles that actually do need coordinates. I'll go ahead and reinstate the edit. —Granger (talk · contribs) 01:19, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

Arch of Reunification

I removed the listing for the Arch of Reunification as it was demolished in January 2024. Since it was an iconic sight, it might be appropriate to mention it in the guide. 219.255.220.75 10:06, 2 March 2024 (UTC)