Wikivoyage:Destination of the month candidates

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Here we determine which articles are featured on the Main Page as Destination of the month (Dotm), Off the Beaten Path (OTBP) and Featured travel topics (FTT).

Nominate[edit]

You can nominate any article you would like to see featured. Any destination, region, itinerary or event that passes the "What is an article?" test is eligible for nomination.

However, before nominating, please check that the article follows these basic guidelines:

Well-known and/or popular destinations should be nominated as Destination of the Month, while more obscure destinations should be nominated for Off the Beaten Path. Travel topics, phrasebooks, itineraries and other articles should be nominated for Featured Travel Topic. Where applicable, you should propose a good time to visit the destination as a month to be featured.

The basic format of a nomination is as follows:

{{FeatureNom
| place=Destination
| blurb='''[[Destination]]''' is a place of contrasts, and as such it...
| status=Guide
| time=March-June
| nominatedBy=~~~~
| comment=Great article and it's just luvvly-jubbly in the springtime.
| DotMImage=[[File:Destinationimage.jpg|thumb|300px]]
}}

Add a nomination to the end of the appropriate section.

Discuss[edit]

You can comment on any nomination based on timeliness and adherence to the criteria above, just add a bullet point (*) and your signed opinion.

===[[Destination]]===
Great article and it's just luvvly-jubbly in the springtime. TravelNut 25:25, 31 Feb 2525 (EDT)
* Looks nice, but shouldn't the Do section contain more than just quilting contests? ~~~~

Please note that the following are not considered valid reasons to oppose a nomination:

  • "I don't like it." All objections have to be based on the guidelines above: poor formatting, missing information, etc. Personal opinions, dislikes, etc. do not count.
  • "Wrong time of year." Articles are supported or opposed based on their content. Timing can be worked out later.
  • "Wrong type of place." Articles are supported or opposed based on their content. Whether it's DotM or OtBP can be worked out later.

Select[edit]

If an article gets several comments in favor and none against for a week or so, it's eligible to be placed in an appropriate time-slot in the Upcoming queue. If the objections are relatively minor and are being worked on, add them to the Upcoming queue tentatively (add a question mark "?" after the article). Feel free to move the queue around or swap articles if it makes sense. If a nomination clearly does not make the grade and if the objections are not easily fixable, they go into the Slush pile

Once a nomination has been scheduled, an appropriate banner image and text blurb must be selected. Go to Wikivoyage:Destination of the month candidates/Banners to start that discussion.

Archive[edit]

Discussions for previously selected destinations are kept in the Archive.

Upcoming[edit]

Schedule[edit]

The following queue should contain about six months' worth of upcoming destinations. Note that new DotMs are rotated in on the 1st of each month, OtBPs on the 11th and travel topics on the 21st.

Month DotM OtBP FTT
February 2016 Antigua Guatemala Hilo Armenian phrasebook
March 2016 Kyoto Swakopmund Ruta del Tránsito
April 2016 Cartagena (Colombia) - pending stronger consensus to support Mount Rinjani - pending stronger consensus to support Nuclear tourism
May 2016 Indianapolis for Indy 500 - pending stronger consensus to support Dilijan - pending stronger consensus to support Diving the Cape Peninsula and False Bay/Partridge Point - pending stronger consensus to support
June 2016 Stockholm - pending stronger consensus to support London/Hampstead Money - pending stronger consensus to support
July 2016 Halifax (Nova Scotia) - pending fixes and stronger consensus to support Palmyra (New York) for Hill Cumorah Pageant Copenhagen Airport - pending fixes and stronger consensus to support

These are not cast in stone, and the order can be changed if, for example, an excellent guide for a timely event is found. Whenever a guide becomes a current feature, it should be removed from the list, the discussion archived, and a new month added to the end of the queue. Alternatives are OK; the whole point is to enable some discussion as needed.

Next change[edit]

Decisions regarding which images to use as the banners are made here.

The section below provides an opportunity to see what the upcoming featured articles will look like on the Main Page using the banners that are currently most popular on the above page.

Destination of the Month[edit]

Kyoto

Cherry blossom season is a popular and colorful time to visit Japan's old Imperial-era capital: a place where modernity and history collide in surprising ways.

Off the Beaten Path[edit]

Hilo

Hawaii's second city boasts surfing, snorkeling and volcanoes a stone's throw away, without the crowds of tourists you'll find elsewhere on the islands.

Featured Travel Topic[edit]

Armenian phrasebook

Armenians welcome visitors with open arms — but they're not the most proficient English speakers! What's a tourist to do? Brushing up on their unique language will warm your hosts' hearts all the more.

Updating[edit]

On the date of the scheduled change, the DotM, OtBP, or FTT should be changed as close to midnight UTC as possible. When the featured page is changed, please follow the following procedures to do so and archive content to the appropriate pages. At each stage, please double-check that you are correctly moving content.

  1. Update the featured articles on the main page by replacing the current 'banner' template section with those of the appropriate banner for the new DotM/OtBP/FTT found in the Next change section above.
  2. Update the Photo credits page with the banner's original image, title and attribution.
  3. Add the former featured article to the appropriate archive page: Previous Destinations of the month, Previously Off the beaten path, or Previous Featured travel topics.
  4. Remove Template:Featurenomination from newly featured article.
  5. For the former featured article, add the appropriate parameter to the pagebanner template (directly after the image filename) to label the page as having been featured previously.
    • For former DotMs, add: dotm=yes
    • For former OtBPs, add: otbp=yes
    • For former FTTs, add: ftt=yes
  6. Archive the newly featured article's nomination. Simply cut-and-paste the nomination section of the newly featured article from this page to Wikivoyage:Destination of the Month candidates/Archive.
  7. Update the Next change section above by adding the banner from the discussion page. View the table in the Schedule section above to determine what next month's change will be, then update the image and blurb in the "Next change" section with that found in the upcoming featured article's nomination.
  8. Archive the newly featured article's banner by cutting-and-pasting all banner suggestions and the associated discussion into Wikivoyage:Destination of the month candidates/Banners/Archive.

Nominations for Destination of the Month[edit]

Cartagena (Colombia)[edit]

Place: Cartagena (Colombia)
Blurb: Equally famous for its beautifully preserved colonial-era fortress as for the grey sand beaches of Bocagrande, "Cartagena of the Indies" is Colombia's number-one tourist draw. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Dec-Apr
Nominated by: AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:15, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Another possible DotM for the Northern Hemisphere winter of 2015-16, and one from a rather neglected region of the world: Latin America.

Nomination
Multicolored street in Cartagena.JPG


  • Very close. The article has many of the same minor and easily fixable problems as Amritsar, minus the copyediting: about half of its listings lack coordinates, it needs a dynamic map, and the lede should be developed beyond a single sentence. Also, given some of the far-in-the-past dates that crop up here and there in the article - for example, $15,800 for a taxi from the airport to El Laguito "as of November 2009" - it might be good to update information where appropriate. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:15, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Not yet — Many sections are pretty short in this article, for example there really has to be more to see in Cartagena. Perhaps there's something from de and pt worth bringing over? Restaurants lack price categories... ϒpsilon (talk) 17:14, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
I've started a thread about this article's issues here at Talk:Cartagena (Colombia). Will probably start working on the article myself in a week or two. ϒpsilon (talk) 18:36, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Support, I think. I've fixed most of those easy fixable problems. Now there are just the really challenging ones left, namely a couple of old dates, perhaps even three listings lacking descriptions and maybe even some wrongly formatted currency notations. ϒpsilon (talk) 18:37, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
  • June? - since the article is listed as "pending stronger consensus to support", how about listing it in June instead and clearing the spot for Stockholm, which will come into spotlight precisely in May? What is the best time to visit Columbia by the way, is there a major event in the city coming in the next 12 months which could tie in nicely? PrinceGloria (talk) 07:14, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
  • Close - I think I like the article, except for the redlink in the by plane section... I am not sure we should present something like that as featured... Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:11, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
That's a place from where there's a non-stop flight. I wouldn't support deleting it. The solution is for someone to start an article about Barrancabermeja (frankly, a place I've never heard of, but w:Barrancabermeja makes it sound worth an article - though not exactly a highlight of a visit to Colombia - particularly since business travelers in the oil industry may have occasion to go there). Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:47, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Kyoto[edit]

Place: Kyoto
Blurb: Cherry blossom season is a popular and colorful time to visit Japan's old Imperial-era capital: a place where modernity and history collide in surprising ways. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: March 2016 for cherry blossom in late March-early April/ otherwise Mar-May, Aug or Nov per w:Kyoto#Climate
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 14:22, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
Comment: With the risk of contributing to a situation where over half of next winter’s DotMs are from Asia and/or nominating an article that’s guaranteed to sit on this page for at least a year — here comes Kyoto. Apparently it’s one of the best places for this quintessentially Japanese event (the 2015 cherry blossom is taking place in a few days) so March would be a perfect time to feature it. There’s nothing in the article looking really alarming to me, the biggest problem are some sleep listings that should be moved to appropriate districts. The main issues with the districts themselves are listings lacking coordinates, and some eat sections that need to be “pricified”.

Nomination
Cherry blossoms in Kyoto.jpg


  • Almostϒpsilon (talk) 14:22, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Looks very close. I read through only some of the article with a fine-toothed comb, but I basically agree with you. I don't understand the last introductory sentence in the "Internet and manga cafés" subsection, so that should be dealt with in addition to the "move to district" of the 3 Internet and manga café listings. I'm wondering if the ugly "moved from Kyoto" templates at the bottom of the district articles can be deleted. We don't usually use them when districtifying cities. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:55, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
I think that the point that this sentence is trying to make is that you can't leave luggage at an Internet Cafe during the day. So you should add ¥300-600 to the price for a luggage locker, and maybe also ¥220 for a bus to the cost of an overnight stay in a cafe. For example a reclining seat (cheaper seats are available) in Media Cafe costs ¥2,350, but a dorm bed in the Earthship hostel costs ¥2,500, or a YHA hostel costs ¥3,400 (see Kyoto/Higashiyama). So staying the night in an internet cafe can be the same price as a hostel bed. AlasdairW (talk) 23:00, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Support It is a fairly good article and the districts are in reasonable shape - although it would be good if more places to eat and drink had lat/longs. AlasdairW (talk) 16:27, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Support — somebody fixed the hotels, I've arranged the restaurants in price categories. I'm changing my vote to support. It would still be nice to have coordinates for the POIs that don't have them in the districts. ϒpsilon (talk) 19:07, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
Yes, someone did fix the "Sleep" section, but I'm still bothered by this ugly template — {{mergecredit|Kyoto}} — which is at the bottom of every district article and produces the following small text in a bordered text box that spans the entire width of the page: "This article contains content that was once found at Kyoto. View that page's revision history for the list of authors." I haven't seen it in any other district article. Why is it needed? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:26, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
I'd say that should go. Is there any reason not to delete the template as well? Pashley (talk) 21:20, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
I can't think of one. Until just now, I didn't realize there was a special template for this. I don't know of any case of it being used, other than the districtification of Kyoto. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:33, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
Template:Mergecredit is used in about 40 places, about half of them talk pages. I think that it intended to be used when articles are merged, but obviously isn't most of the time. In the case of Kyoto, it could either be deleted or moved to the talk pages. AlasdairW (talk) 21:59, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
I think the template is not needed because edits that move content from one Wikivoyage page to another are clearly evident in page histories. But maybe we should discuss that in Vfd. In the meantime, these templates would do less damage on talk pages. Are we agreed on moving them from the articles to their talk pages, at least as a temporary measure? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:34, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
Parenthetically, I started a thread about this template on Vfd. Please express your opinions about the continued existence of the template in that thread. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:45, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
I'll support featuring this article, too, but I hope that, irrespective of the fate of the "Mergecredit" template on Vfd, we can remove it from all the district articles (and move it to their talk pages, if absolutely necessary) before the Kyoto article runs. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:57, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Here's the fourth support vote. Very good article; not much I can think of that it needs before featuring. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 13:07, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Indianapolis[edit]

Place: Indianapolis
Blurb: At the "Crossroads of America", the sturdy, corn-fed capital of the U.S. state of Indiana is a destination for motorsports fanatics every May when it plays host to the "Indy 500". (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: May 2016 for Indianapolis 500, otherwise Apr-Oct
Nominated by: AndreCarrotflower (talk) 03:09, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Justin has done some pretty solid work on this article. There are a few minor issues, but nothing that couldn't be fixed before the end of next May, when the Indianapolis 500 descends on the Motor Speedway once again.

Nomination
2007 Indianapolis 500 - Starting field formation before start.jpg


  • Weak support as nominator. Here's what needs to be done for my unqualified support:
  • There's a dynamic map, but no listings outside the "See" section have coordinates.
  • Some listings in "Do" need to be moved or reformatted: for example, "Get creeped out at the Indiana Medical History Museum" should be simply "Indiana Medical History Museum", and belongs in "See". (In other words, there's a time and a place to use lively tone.)
  • "Go next" should list cities or other destinations, not individual attractions.
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 03:09, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Support and comment I would be happy to do any tiding up that anyone thinks is necessary and an eight-month time frame is definitely doable. —Justin (koavf)TCM 03:19, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Almost support — mostly due to the lack of coordinates. Also, I'm a little curious about the plan to divide the Indianapolis article into districts. I don't think it has to be done but I don't oppose the idea either (the article is long but not unwieldy). Nevertheless if Justin or others would like to do this, the distrification should also be completed by the time the article goes live. ϒpsilon (talk) 19:32, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Almost — I like the article, but there is some scope for improvement, as featured articles are more likely to be read by people who haven't been to the US.
The term "Indy" is widely used but not explained - does everybody in the US understand Indy to mean Indianapolis, not Indiana? A couple more photos of See listings would be good. There are some Do listings (Other fun) that should be in Eat. "Wander the galleries on First Fridays" - it is not clear whether these galleries are open on any other day of the month.
Get in could be improved: 3 of the airports have broken links, and we should probably be clearer which have regular commercial flights; Indianapolis International Airport should be expanded to list the main cities served and also to give ground transport details - 8 bus, price of a taxi to town etc. By bus could be expanded e.g. Greyhound have 7 buses per day from Chicago taking around 4 hours.
All the listings need to be checked as I have found a few broken links: Fountain Diner, MCL Cafeteria, The Bosphorus Istanbul Cafe, Red Eye Cafe, Serendipity Haus. AlasdairW (talk) 22:10, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Almost, mainly for the ongoing lack of coordinates in most listings, as mentioned above. Also, there are many external links that are still in the old number format (e.g., [26]) that need to get re-formatted. PerryPlanet (talk) 20:12, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

Stockholm[edit]

Place: Stockholm
Blurb: Are you interested in history, art, gastronomy, partying or shopping? The royal capital set in a beautiful archipelago has something for everyone. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: May-Sep
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 18:53, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Yup, guess who's back from the slush pile again. The last time the largest problem was that there were more districts than content in most of them. Me and Prince restructured the city a year ago and I've recently listingfied the district articles and filled in missing pieces of information (unbelievable how many places didn't even have a freaking address!), so there shouldn't be any issues with the districts any longer. Certainly there is outdated stuff here and there, but that's something that should better be fixed a month or two before the article is featured to make sure the article is up to date when it is featured (from today until May, probably at least one POI in each district will have closed down or otherwise changed). In the Stockholm article itself I've converted many many old-style external links to our new style and though there are also some other style issues that yet have to be fixed (most notably, bulleted points are overused). Nevertheless, as updating probably more than a hundred listings took me four evenings, it shouldn't be impossible to polish up the article in eight to twelve months...

Nomination
Stockholm Castle and crown.jpg
  • Not yet per comment but I'm putting this here now as there are still vacant DotM slots for next summer. ϒpsilon (talk) 18:53, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Support - as our big city articles go, this one's really good. I am not saying this because I was mentioned above, as I did precious little compared to other users (and yes, I could have done more in the recent weeks when it was called for...) My comment would be that since Eurovision returns to Stockholm for May 2016, we could feature the city in May or even April (when people will be planning their visits to the city for the shows in the first half of May), and from my experience May is perhaps the best month to visit. I intend to head to Stockholm for the ESC myself and I will be looking into the article immediately prior to fix all the issues that might arise from last-minute changes for sure. PrinceGloria (talk) 05:27, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
ϒpsilon, there are also walking tours listed. To date, the consensus is that walking tours, regardless of whether they are free or not, generally should not be listed when in theory, it's possible to do the same tour yourself without a guide. The same standard doesn't apply to bike tours because cycling is considered an activity and walking isn't, or something (I don't think that's really the reason, but I've never really understood this policy distinction). So yeah, I agree that the article still could use some more work, but I expect to support the article's nomination soon. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:56, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
PrinceGloria - also, especially in light of the comment you made and then retracted for unrelated reasons, Indianapolis is already scheduled for May 2016. We already ran Vienna last summer to coincide with Eurovision, and there are other events besides that for which we can time DotM features. In fact, save for the UK and Ireland, very few people in most English-speaking countries (i.e. the readership of English Wikivoyage) follow Eurovision, so it's not even a particularly good "timely event" to choose. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 05:46, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
The readership of English Wikivoyage is far beyond countries where English is an official language - it is the "default" Wikivoyage, especially in light of the relatively underdeveloped state (or nonexistence) of many language versions. I for one do not even visit WV in my own language. Plus Australia is now participating as well due to, drum roll, the massive following of the contest on the continent. PrinceGloria (talk) 07:12, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
Be that as it may, muscling other "timely event" candidates out of the way on the schedule to accommodate a second consecutive Eurovision host city is excessive to the point of ridiculous. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 13:19, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Prince removed the walking tours, and I've now cut down the insane number of bulleted points and made the text more comfortable to read. Apparently many businesses have locations in three or even four districts so probably it's OK to leave their listings with all the addresses here in this article, otherwise descriptions would need to be duplicated. ϒpsilon (talk) 14:35, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Looks good to me; I'm ready to give the article a vote of support. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:34, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Tunis[edit]

Place: Tunis
Blurb: A place of contrasts: the capital and largest city of Tunisia, yet compact and relatively laid-back (even in the souq!); largely passed over by tourists, yet a gateway to the magnificent ruins of Cathage and the crowded beaches of Sousse. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Mar-Jun, Sep-Nov
Nominated by: AndreCarrotflower (talk) 22:40, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Continuing with the trend toward African destinations on the Main Page, here's a pretty good article that would be only our second North African feature ever. I'm envisioning June 2016 for this one, or else the following autumn.

[EDIT: I might have known, this is yet another of the African articles that's been whipped into shape by Ypsilon. Again, Ypsi, thank you for your copious help to the cause of geographic diversity on the Main Page.]

Nomination
Tunis ZitounaMosque.JPG
  • Very, very close. A "Do" section that's in need of expansion is the only thing barring this article from my support. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 22:40, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
Thanks a lot for your compliments! :) Though, I was actually thinking of having Tunis some year in the early spring or late autumn, when we (compared to the summer) traditionally have had somewhat hard time finding suitable candidates. ϒpsilon (talk) 04:23, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
This is a highly developed article, and one thing I like is the "orientation" subsection, probably borrowed from fr.wikivoyage. It's a good idea and something that should be in more en.wikivoyage articles. I did some copy editing, but there's a lot of material to go through. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:47, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
I'm finally taking the time to look through the article more. There are a few "See" listings without description. As Andre says, "Do" needs to be expanded and listified. "Learn" should also be listified, with addresses and contact info specified. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:21, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Halifax (Nova Scotia)[edit]

Place: Halifax (Nova Scotia)
Blurb: The largest city in Canada's Maritime Provinces boasts a long, proud military history, a restored 19th-century waterfront, and friendly, laid-back East Coast hospitality. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Jun-Sep (when planning the schedule, remember Percé/Gaspé Peninsula is there too ϒpsilon (talk) 09:34, 28 September 2015 (UTC) )
Nominated by: AndreCarrotflower (talk) 04:01, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
Comment: It's time to start looking for DotM candidates for summer 2016 - as of now we've got Stockholm and that's all. Here's a candidate I've had my eye on for a while.

Nomination
Halifax - NS - Uhrturm.jpg


  • Weak support as of now. A few easy fixes will upgrade my vote to full support, namely:
  • about half the listings need coordinates,
  • "Go next" needs a few minor tweaks to conform with the Wikivoyage standard,
  • the "Climate" section needs to be filled out with more than just the temperature/precipitation infobox, and
  • the "Cope" section is empty (it contained information about a drug addiction treatment center that I reverted as irrelevant to travellers).

-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 04:01, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

  • Almost — when the things Andre mentioned are fixed, also I will be happy to support Halifax for DotM. BTW apparently the Cope section can be left out if there's nothing important to add there.
Ps. I have several ideas for summer DotMs. But as we have just a few summer months, dropping all 10+ of those articles here at once would almost be vandalism, I guess :). ϒpsilon (talk) 09:34, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
Mention them on the talk page. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:34, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
  • For the record the issues mentioned above are now fixed, except for the coordinates. ϒpsilon (talk) 17:26, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
Beautiful. The coordinates should be a quick and easy fix that I'll get to soon. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 18:00, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

Riga[edit]

Place: Riga
Blurb: Perhaps best known for its nightclubs, the metropolis on Daugava is packed with history from the Middle ages to the Cold war. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: May-Sep
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 18:42, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Thanks to Prince (it’s an article of a major European city, what would you expect?) the article is in a good shape and it actually takes some effort to find something to complain about. Some POIs have short descriptions and some lack coordinates, but this can be fixed in an hour or so. Also, a month or so before it gets featured it's good to click through all links, amend or remove dead ones and remove businesses that have closed...

Nomination
Vistas desde la iglesia de San Pedro, Riga, Letonia, 2012-08-07, DD 12.JPG
  • As it's probably me who will do this eventually, it'd be silly for me to write "almost" before support. ϒpsilon (talk) 18:42, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Tentative support pending the fixes Ypsi has identified and plans to do. In addition, the cities listed in "Go next" need one-liner descriptions, and the selections probably need to be pruned a bit. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 22:31, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
I don't have time to read and judge the status of this article right now, but as for pruning the "Go next" listings, why? They're very clearly organized by country, so the list is not hard to read. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:41, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
Apparently I fixed the Go next section at some point. ϒpsilon (talk) 17:14, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

Edinburgh/New Town[edit]

Place: Edinburgh/New Town
Blurb: 250 years ago, in 1766 the young architect, James Craig, won the contest to design an extension to Scotland's capital city. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: 2016 or 2017 (August would be best as that is when the Edinburgh festivals are held - for 2017 blurb to refer to plans being accepted by town council in 1767)
Nominated by: AlasdairW (talk) 14:25, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Edinburgh was featured on DOTM in December 2005, but I doubt many readers will remember.

Nomination
Moray Place, Edinburgh 003.jpg


Support as nominator. It should be reasonably up-to-date as a lot of changes have been made in the last six months. AlasdairW (talk) 14:29, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

  • Support, a quick glance reveals no big issues (a pic or two towards the middle would be good and some coords are also missing). Concerning scheduling, I think there is still a summer slot left in 2016 so that this one doesn't sit here for almost two years. However we may want to have a month or two between this one, London Hampstead and Driving in the UK (which I nominated for FTT a few hours ago) to avoid having two UK articles overlapping. ϒpsilon (talk) 15:35, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Minor quibble: if we're going to break up "Buy" and "Drink" geographically, it should be done with second-level section headings, not with random paragraphs interrupting the bullet-point list. Of course, that's far too minor an issue to preclude my support. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 22:34, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Reserving the right to object: You're right that 2005 is a long time ago, but I think we should put all repeat features on the back burner, to be considered only if we don't have another worthy article that's never been featured and is ready to go. Does anyone disagree, and if so, why? Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:39, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
Edinburgh/New Town has never been featured, the main Edinburgh article has. ϒpsilon (talk) 14:29, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
Oh, I see. Objection withdrawn! haha :-) Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:55, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Nominations for Off the Beaten Path[edit]

Palmyra (New York)[edit]

Place: Palmyra (New York)
Blurb: The birthplace of the Latter-Day Saints movement (also known as Mormonism), Palmyra is a village steeped in history and enriched by the dynamic presence of the Erie Canal. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: July or June (Hill Cumorah Pageant is mid-July), elsewise anytime between March and October
Nominated by: Powers (talk) 23:36, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
Comment: Blurb needs work. Been working on it off and on since 2012, before the move to the WMF. This is what it looked like when I started. It's definitely off the beaten path, but its attractions include the holiest sites of a significant world religion with more than 15 million adherents.

Nomination
Hill Cumorah Pageant heralds.jpg


  • Support. That's a lot of really good work! I haven't read through the entire article with a fine-toothed comb, but I feel very satisfied that I've read through enough of it to be able to testify to its high quality. A few more photos, if available (perhaps one of the canal?) would be welcome. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:12, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
    Free photos are hard to come by, in part because searching produces false positives with Palmyra. There are some options out there, and I've got a couple of my own I might be able to use; I just haven't added them yet. I appreciate the reminder, though! Powers (talk) 01:20, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
    I've added a couple of photos; feel free to look for some more to add! Powers (talk) 02:22, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. Excellent work, Powers, though I echo Ikan's request for more photos. Let's put this on the Main Page in July 2016, to coincide with the Hill Cumorah pageant (and to avoid running too close to Buffalo's DotM run, which I envision for June 2015). -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 02:12, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
    Small nitpick: in an article with nine other places in the Eat section that aren't national chains, do we really need a listing for Subway? -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 02:16, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
    Need, no, but the list isn't strongly curated, so it seemed odd to omit it just because it's a chain. In small towns like this, without local specialty cuisines, sometimes consistency and predictability is desirable for a traveler over greasy spoons and diners with unknown standards. I'd thought about just mentioning it without giving it a full listing, but I thought its location inside a gas station was best explained in a full listing. Powers (talk) 02:22, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Support - The article looks good, I can't really find anything big to complain about though I do notice there are quite many redlinks in the article. Yeah, and of course some more photos would be great. ϒpsilon (talk) 19:28, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
    Are redlinks a problem for some reason? And there are now six photos in the article; if you find any more you'd like to add feel free, but policy does request we don't go overboard. Powers (talk) 21:25, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
I believe we have enough photos at this point. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 00:02, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
Yes indeed, with the two that Powers added since this discussion started. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:06, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

[unindent] This is another article with 3 votes of support. Any interest from anyone else? Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:06, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

  • Support-I can't imagine there is anything important left out of this article. My only suggestion is to add a summary paragraph under "Do" since all the other sections have one.Godsendlemiwinks (talk) 22:17, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Dilijan[edit]

Place: Dilijan
Blurb: This walkable Armenian town is nicknamed "Armenian Switzerland" but has a character all its own. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: The lede says that the town has "mild climate", but since skiing isn't listed under "Do", I suppose we should avoid winter months and favor May-October
Nominated by: Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:45, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Candidly, I'd never heard of this town until I clicked the article from Category:Guide articles, but it looks like an excellent article about a worthwhile place.

Nomination
Haghartsin-raffi kojian-DCP 4210.JPG


  • Support by nominator. This is a picturesque place and the article is nicely listified. Some prices may need to be updated, but I don't see anything that would otherwise prevent us from featuring this article tomorrow, which we won't do in any case. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:45, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Close The issues are not great, but I think these need dealt with: the Geological Museum should at least have a little description, the "Do" section needs to expand on each of the topics. The current bulleted list is as helpful as empty space, and it needs some "Go Next" listings. Also, is it misrepresented as a "resort town"? That is the first thing the article says about it, but none of the pictures, sites, or activities suggest that it's actually a resort town. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 14:02, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
I agree with CW, they are easily fixed but they do have to be fixed before the article goes on the main page. However, as Armenian phrasebook likely will go on the main page sometimes in the fall, and the OtBP section is otherwise practically fully booked for the rest of 2015, it will take some time before Dilijan will get featured. Per Climate-data, I would say the time to feature is from May to October. --ϒpsilon (talk) 19:07, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
I did my best, as someone who has no personal knowledge of the town, to address your concerns. I have no idea whether it is being misrepresented as a resort town. I think I'll post something about climate. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:04, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
I created a climate chart and also wrote about the climate. See what you think of the article now. Reviews of the Geological Museum and Art Gallery of Dilijan on Tripadvisor were generally positive, but there were only 4 of them. I have no idea how much I'd like the museum if I visited; some of the art on display that I found pictures of wouldn't interest me. So I thought it was probably best to quote (with quotation marks and citation) and paraphrase from what the museum says about itself, and let travellers choose whether to go based on that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:47, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Close. ChubbyWimbus' point regarding the "Do" section is well taken, and is also arguably applicable to "Buy" and "Drink" too. Also, we need coordinates in the "Eat" section. And finally, I understand there's a school of thought that holds it to be acceptable to configure dynamic maps such that some outlying POIs are left off the margins, but I think 8 out of 11 POIs invisible in the default settings is stretching it way too far. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:02, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
Well, unless someone who actually knows the town would like to fill in more information, we'll probably have to slush the nomination. I do have a question about the map, though. I have to reduce the zoom level to 11 to show all but one of the "Nearby" attractions (#10), but then the town is just an orange plus sign. From the viewpoint of seeing the numbers of listings, it's not so bad, because the plus sign is hiding only #2 and #3, so would you recommend that zoom level, even though the result is a regional map? Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:54, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
I think it's probably OK to make the "Eat" section "Eat and drink", given the remark in the "Drink" section. I'm going to do that now. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:58, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
I zoomed the map in and recentered it well to the west of town, but that might need to be revisited if the Eat & drink and Sleep sections are subjected to thorough Geo. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:59, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

[unindent] Thanks to User:Kiaora, the article is much improved. What do you all think of it now, in terms of adequacy of content? Also, should the map now be zoomed in a bit to make the town's points of interest more visible, given the higher number now covered in the article? Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:52, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

  • Support. Looks much better now. Thousand thanks to Kiaora and yourself for valuable additions. I'd prefer not to zoom in the map, as there are quite a couple of POIs outside the town that may go unnoticed if the map is zoomed in. The reader can zoom it in him/herself to get a closer look. ϒpsilon (talk) 09:20, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Closer than before, though I still can't quite support this nominee. At a minimum, "Sleep" and "Eat" need price range templates, and Dilijan National Park needs to be moved from "Do" to "See", with coordinates for all the attractions within the park that are listed under second-level bullet points. Also it'd be nice if "Buy" was expanded a bit, but that's less essential. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 16:15, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
I thought parks were usually put in "Do" as places for activities. Is that incorrect? Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:54, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
By convention, city parks are listed in See. This may be a unique case where a national park has a listing within a city article. You could make an argument for Do, but See is probably more consistent. Powers (talk) 21:20, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Hilo[edit]

Place: Hilo
Blurb: Hawaii's second city boasts surfing, snorkeling and volcanoes a stone's throw away, without the crowds of tourists you'll find elsewhere on the islands. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Jan-Feb (only months with less than 20 rainy days)
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 15:00, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Let's put on the Aloha shirts next winter and have our first Main Page feature from Hawaii. I found the article a few months back and have checked it through.

Nomination
HiloPark.JPG
  • Support ϒpsilon (talk) 15:00, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Support (see below). You beat me to the punch, Ypsi; I was planning on nominating this article after I got done with Buffalo/East Side and Historic Churches of Buffalo's East Side. If I remember correctly, I had come across a few minor issues with the article when I looked it over before, but it seems fine now so you must have fixed them. Anyhow, this would be a nice feature for winter 2015-16. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:38, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
Also Ikan suggested nominating it :) ϒpsilon (talk) 15:49, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, it's a worthy article to nominate, but before I support the nomination: Have all the listings been checked and updated? Do we have current room rates in the hotel listings, for example? Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:04, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Not yet. The more I look at this article, the more little things I find wrong with it. First off, though all the listings have geo coordinates, there's no mapframe. Secondly, though I do realize the vast majority of visitors to Hawaii arrive by plane, a single two-sentence listing of the local airport does not in any way suffice for a "Get in" section. "Get around" very much needs to be expanded too. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 19:18, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
And "Climate" needs to be either expanded or folded into the parent "Understand" section. No use in splitting something off to a different section if it's only one sentence long. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 19:20, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
I made some changes to Understand and surrounding sections, also adding a map. The uppermost part of the article looks weird, but I'm not able to get it look any better. Removing the lead picture would make the article look boring.
Concerning transport, well, I don't know much about Hilo, the Big Island or Hawaii. But at least when looking at Big Island#Get in (and around) it doesn't seem like there are any other alternatives for getting in and around than those already mentioned.
When adding coordinates, I of course removed listings where the business neither showed up in maps.google.com nor when googling it. Also, if I noticed something to be incorrect (address etc.) I fixed it. I've not checked the room rates for hotels, nor other prices. ϒpsilon (talk) 11:26, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
I think we should check and update rates as appropriate before we run the article. AndreCarrotflower, what else do you think should be in "Get in"? I guess information about roads. I suppose a few people will go to Hilo from Kona, but not too many. We can and probably should add that information, but if you are elsewhere on the island, I don't think it'll be hard for you to find out how to drive to Hilo. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:02, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
Ikan - Sorry for my belated response here. Yes, we should include information on how to get in by road (even if that info consists basically of "all Big Island roads lead to Hilo"), as well as a By boat section that includes information on marinas that offer transient slip rental as well as details on inter-island ferry service, if such a thing exists.
Also, it looks like the only topic "Get around" covers with any thoroughness is public transportation. We might also include information on bicycling, car rental, the layout of the street grid (if there are any peculiarities travellers would need to know), one-way streets (if applicable), rush hours (if applicable), and so forth.
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 00:08, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
Rush hour in Hilo was very mild, from what I could tell. I'll have a look at the article when time allows, but someone with more experience than I will need to discuss one-way streets. I don't remember many of them, though. It seemed fairly easy to drive around that fairly small town, from what I can remember, but then I was a passenger, not a driver. My girlfriend may have some input. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:52, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
My girlfriend says that people drove very slow and mellow and would let people change lanes easily. There were no wide highways, few streetlights in Volcano (but that's some way from Hilo), and not much traffic. She doesn't remember it being stressful or difficult to drive there. Neither of us remember many one-way streets. My girlfriend also says that if you made a mistake there, it was easy to get back to where you wanted to be. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:03, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
I added the two reasonable routes from Kona Airport to Hilo. My girlfriend and I didn't go all the way from Hilo and the Hamakua Coast to the Kona side when we were there, so my remarks are not authoritative, but the observations on what it's like to drive there are to the best of my recollection, and we did go on the Saddle Road to the Mauna Kea Observatory and travel some distance north of Hilo on the Hawaii Belt Road (HI-19), and the timings I give are quite a bit longer than the unreasonably short estimates on Google Maps. In particular, their claim that you could take the Saddle Road across the interior of the island all the way from Kona Airport to Hilo in 1 1/2 hours without traffic seems ridiculous to me, and 2 hours may be optimistic. We're talking about some high ground with some rough curves. Ypsi, I saw you changed and added some hotel room rates. How far have you gotten in updating the listings? Are they ready to go, or is more work needed? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:08, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
All hotel rates are updated from the hotels' web pages. I also added some stuff about getting in and around by googling and looking at the dynamic map. ϒpsilon (talk) 09:54, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
Wonderful! What about "Buy", "Eat" and "Drink" listings? Whenever we know they're current, it will be time to approve the article for a feature. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:18, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
If I remember correctly, when nominating Hilo in May I went through all listings adding coordinates and addresses if they were missing and removed some places that apparently didn't exist any longer. ϒpsilon (talk) 10:33, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
I know AndreCarrotflower wanted a listing for a bicycle rental place, and I think there was one bicycle shop on Kamehameha Avenue when I was there in 2012, so perhaps we can find the information before the article runs, but I'm ready to support featuring this article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:41, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

(unindent) Nice job, Ikan, and sorry for my belated response. I had envisioned the finished "Get around" section being a bit longer, but anyhow Hilo is a small city and nothing seems to be missing, so I can support this nominee now. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 12:58, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

  • Support - I like it, lots of content and adding the directions from Kailua-Kona was a nice touch. A few small things I noticed that I think could make it even better (but don't impact my support) are:
    • The lede is quite short and a bit bland. It would be nice if there was something more enticing to draw the reader in;
    • A brief intro to the See section like Do has; and
    • (this is personal preference) move the first three listings in the Go next section to See, and add geo coordinates to them. They don't seem that far away from Hilo and the See section isn't large. I found it a bit confusing to have Akaka Falls referenced in the Rainbow Falls listing but there's no further reference to them until the end of the article. -Shaundd (talk) 04:45, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
I don't see what really could be added to the lede, myself. But about the blurb: How is Hilo "Hawaii's second city"? It's the most populous city on the Big Island, but Kailua on Oahu is bigger. So it seems that it's neither the Big Island's second city nor the state's. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:04, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
I would guess it's the second Hawaiian city most non-natives would think of. To be honest I've never heard of Kailua, and it doesn't look like there's anything particularly notable there. Powers (talk) 21:22, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
The Hilo metropolitan area is the second-largest in Hawaii per Wikipedia. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 22:43, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
I see. Presumably, Kailua is regarded as being in the Honolulu Metropolitan Area, which I guess encompasses the entire island of Oahu (all part of Honolulu County, if I'm remembering my terms right), but that's not really the way things seem on the ground when you're driving around Oahu. If it's really fair to say that Hilo is "Hawaii's second city", it is an extremely distant second. Are we really sure it's instructive to use the term? Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:34, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Washington, D.C./Anacostia[edit]

Place: Washington, D.C./Anacostia
Blurb: Despite its reputation among Washingtonians for crime and blight, east of the river lies a hearty serving of D.C. black history, from Frederick Douglass to Marvin Gaye. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Star (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Mar-May or Sep-Nov (midsummer is very hot and muggy)
Nominated by: AndreCarrotflower (talk) 20:28, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Maybe it's because my work on Buffalo/East Side is still pretty fresh in my mind, but the moment I laid eyes on this article it appealed to me as a possible OtBP. The similarities between the two are striking: here we have a neighborhood that locals have a one-dimensional view of and tend to stay away from (and advise visitors to do the same), but where a rich slice of American history (and particularly African-American history) that's unknown even to many lifelong Washingtonians awaits those who are willing to defy conventional wisdom. There's been some controversy lately about nominators playing fast and loose with where the boundary between DotM and OtBP lies, so I'm happy to nominate a destination that I feel is both exceptionally worthwhile and unquestionably OtBP.

Nomination
Frederick Douglass House.jpg


  • Support as nominator. This is a Star article, which should tell you all you need to know about its quality. No significant edits have been made to this article since 2013, so it may be good to ensure that listings are up-to-date. Other than that, I think Anacostia is good to go. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 20:28, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. A previously-unfeatured Star article. Who could oppose it? Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:09, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Support, but a month or two before it goes eventually live someone should check that everything in the article is still in business. ϒpsilon (talk) 16:19, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Support, for a comprehensive and interesting look at an often-overlooked corner of D.C. I'll repeat the caveat above that we should make sure everything is up-to-date before featuring. PerryPlanet (talk) 20:47, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

Mount Rinjani[edit]

Place: Mount Rinjani
Blurb: Have you always wanted to climb an active volcano? Mount Rinjani might be the place you're looking for! (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: "Rinjani is best climbed during the April–November dry season." Probably some preparation ahead is needed for climbing travel so we could feature this already March 11th.
Nominated by: --ϒpsilon (talk) 16:19, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Support as the nominator, I guess. Though as you can read at Talk:Mount_Rinjani#OtBP.3F I still have some suspicions about the article. Some sections are a bit short. What do others think? --ϒpsilon (talk) 16:19, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Nomination
Rinjani Summit.jpg
  • Support? --ϒpsilon (talk) 16:19, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Not yet. The listings in "See" absolutely can't lack lengthy descriptions. "Buy", "Eat", and possibly "Get in and "Get around" should all be lengthened. "Drink" should be eliminated or merged into "Eat", as this somewhat awkwardly named section is supposed to specifically deal with bars and nightlife, of which there presumably are none here. The information in Do#Guides and trekking providers should be carefully vetted to make sure they comply with tour policy.
If we do feature this article, I envision April 2016 (the only remaining OtBP slot until the following autumn, so let's stick to nominating DotMs and FTTs for the next few months!), with Hilo in February and Antigua Guatemala in March.
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:58, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
The remarks in "Drink" seem useful to travelers, which is ultimately the point, isn't it? I'm not sure I see the point in folding that section into "Eat"; wouldn't it still have to be a subsection, in that case? I think I mostly agree with you on the rest, though I hadn't really noticed these things before you mentioned them (my main activity on this article is reverting a steady stream of touting). For example, in the "Buy" section, I'd like to know what kinds of hand-woven cloth are available for purchase. Just batik, or perhaps some other styles? I'm not sure the information is completely essential, but it sure would be useful to cloth connoisseurs. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:06, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
I'm afraid some sections cannot be very much expanded; as this is a national park/mountain one cannot expect there to be very many services to list. Those seem to be available in the town/village(?) of Senaru. ϒpsilon (talk) 17:56, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
I take your point, but here is the "Buy" section: "In and around Sembalun Lawang and in Bayan you will have the opportunity to purchase unique and high-quality hand-woven cloth." OK, I suppose these are villages outside the park, but what kind of cloth is it? Also, since these villages lack their own articles, in what article should they be covered? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:12, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
North Lombok? ϒpsilon (talk) 10:48, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
Whoa! There's no "Buy" section in that article! Anyway, yeah, especially since none of the townships listed in that article have articles and both Sembalun Lawang and Bayan are mentioned, I agree with you, Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:53, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
I moved the content to North Lombok#Buy. Should we delete the Buy subheading in Mount Rinjani? Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:24, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
I'm willing to support this nomination. I still have some constructive criticisms: First, I think that there should really be articles for both Senaru (which has one) and Sembalun Lawang, which does not have one. The listings for lodgings in these villages should be moved to either article. (The other alternative is to merge Senaru with Mount Rinjani and also cover Sembalun Lawang more fully in the article, but I think that's not as good as 3 articles with cross-references as necessary and appropriate but no duplication of listings.) Second, I've figured out by implication that the mountain stream water you can get on the mountain is safe to drink, but if that's true, I think it should be stated explicitly. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:31, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
I've tried to notify Felix who apparently knows a thing or two about the area but he doesn't seem active here any longer. ϒpsilon (talk) 09:12, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, Felix hasn't edited since last December 27, and I hope he's just too busy and in excellent health. I'm wondering if User:Othello95 or User:JarrahTree are familiar with the Mount Rinjani area. Are you, guys? Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:27, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
My apologies, only just re-incarnated as JarrahTree from satusuro, and never got to Rinjani - my limited range of pan-Indonesian travel leaves me reverting to very old copies of Bill Moon's Indonesia Handbook for glimpses of the archipelago of the 1970s and 1980s, at places I never got to - JarrahTree (talk) 09:08, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
  • A great deal of progress has been made on the issues I identified in my earlier "Not yet" vote, but I'm afraid I still can't support this article as long as the "Buy" section is completely empty (which, incidentally, also means this article is technically not at Guide level). If there really is nothing to buy within the boundaries of the park, we should explain as much or, at the very least, delete the subheading. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 21:28, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
Yup, Ikan also suggested we should delete the Buy section, after all it's a park. Still waiting if User:Gsarwa would have some knowledge about the mountain. ϒpsilon (talk) 18:16, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Problem - as an inhabitant a long time ago near Merapi in Central Java and reseaarcher of Indonesian volcanoes, I would not support any visiting at all of active volcanoes in Indonesia, even if they are not erupting.

Rinjani's current eruptions are forcing Ngura Rai airport in Bali closure, so they must be severe. Sorry to be a damp squib on this. Also, most things like 'buy' are so unbelievably irrelevent for volcanoes as to be best left out. Sorry, I am sure there are more inert/inactive volcanoes that are as interesting in Indonesia. JarrahTree (talk) 08:38, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Too bad the volcano couldn't stay calm until we've featured it as OtBP :(. Luckily there's still almost half a year until Mt Rinjani would've been on the Main Page so we have time to pick some other article for April (or just put Washington/Anacostia there?). ϒpsilon (talk) 12:51, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
Let's not be too hasty regarding this. Last year, several months before Mitzpe Ramon was scheduled to be run as OtBP, there was a flare-up in the Israeli/Palestinian violence and we had rumblings about whether to reschedule its tenure on the Main Page. That turned out not to be necessary. Echoing Ypsilon, we have a full six months before Mount Rinjani is to be featured, and the situation on the ground with the current eruption could change in the interim.
Second of all, to address your specific comment "I would not support any visiting at all of active volcanoes in Indonesia, even if they are not erupting": this is a judgment call that each individual traveller has to make for himself, and given the wide range of trekking operators, established ascent routes, and the fact that this is a national park, plenty of visitors have judged a visit to Mount Rinjani to be worth the risk (at least when it's not erupting). I think there would need to be a consensus from more than one user before we could justify slushing the nominee on that basis, but in my personal opinion it's not the place of any of us to dictate to any visitor, through slushing this nominee for that reason even though it's a perfectly well-written article, what the appropriate threshold of risk ought to be.
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 13:36, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
I agree. Let's wait and see how it goes with the current eruption, and postpone if and as needed. There's many places in the world that come with considerable dangers to visitors, but are nonetheless known and celebrated destinations. Warnings are in order, but there's nothing wrong with showcasing them too, once in a while. JuliasTravels (talk) 16:40, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
Yes. Nevertheless, let's keep an eye on the situation and hope that the mountain is reopened and otherwise safe in April. ϒpsilon (talk) 17:07, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
If the turn around time is as said, keep the article. I simply was stating a personal preference in relation to short term prognosis of conditions.

OK, the reasoning from Andre is good, and I agree wholeheartedly with his reservations about the one users comment not enough to slush the thing.

The reasons why I would never go anywhere near the mouth of an active volcano in central java, is my research has identified the number of people who go up and never come back from Merapi in central java - the risk of getting caught in gas clouds that are unannounced is more than I can personally accept. That said, I would never gauge a risk in Indonesia against their capacity to have businesses that are risky, Indonesians have very low risk perception if it is the difference between being able to get a few tourist dollars, having been in vehicles that have gone off the road due to a number of issues, I have experienced that first hand. So if the word slushing (oh those nue ardentes in Java...) is volcanoligically the one to use, then please keep the article but be aware (a) Indonesians have a very dangerous level of hazard/risk perception which might not fit with more astute visitors (b) younger fitter travellers might have the same level risk taking attitude (statistically proven) (c) the article itself as andre points out is well done and good set of info (d) it would be well worth having the article if rinjani's current activity is as open and shut as recent reports suggest... And just to qualify the concern against other things, a friend went up Merapi in Central Java recently, and came back ecstatic about the experience, so I do know that statistically the inactive periods on these good ole guys is a safe time, and well worth the effort if youre into that sort of thing. JarrahTree (talk) 22:34, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

  • Update - It looks like Mount Rinjani National Park is closed till March 31, 2016, for reasons that the website doesn't get into (it says "email us for more information"). Rinjani is due up on the Main Page on April 11th, so we're cutting it pretty close. As of now I don't think the situation calls for slushing the article (this may be an effect of unusual El Niño weather patterns rather than an increase in volcanic activity; who knows, they may reopen it early), but needless to say the situation should be watched closely. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:45, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
Grrr, before Christmas when I last checked their home page a part of the park was still open. :(
BTW, we may also have a problem with three US destinations in the OtBP section and one FTT towards the second half of the year (I've been too lazy to start up a discussion about it on the talk page). ϒpsilon (talk) 18:00, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
On my computer at home I have a draft version of the schedule grid up through October 2016, which includes both Palmyra and Anacostia. As for North Central New Mexico, it's just going to have to wait till 2017. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 18:14, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
  • Further update - The national park website has been updated again, this time with a bit more in the way of specific information about the park closure. Apparently they're having a whopper of a rainy season on Lombok. I think the prospects of us being able to feature Rinjani as scheduled in April are significantly brighter, given that the dry season will have already begun, but let's still keep an eye on the situation. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 05:19, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Swakopmund[edit]

Place: Swakopmund
Blurb: A little bit of Deutschland on the edge of the Namib Desert: Namibia's former colonial capital has been reborn as a seaside resort and an unlikely haven for fans of turn-of-the-century German architecture. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Nov-Apr
Nominated by: AndreCarrotflower (talk) 03:46, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Yes, I know: I just got done saying let's avoid nominating any new OtBPs for a while. However, a side effect of moving Antigua Guatemala to the DotM column is that we don't have any suitable candidates for March 2016 - Anacostia can't go in that slot because we'll then have two U.S. destinations in a row (Hilo in February), and despite Ypsi's suggestion, I'm not a fan of the idea of running Mount Rinjani during a rainy-season month simply because it would take a while to plan a voyage there.

Luckily, I happened across a worthy destination from a region that rarely enjoys the Main Page limelight. Swakopmund is a popular domestic tourist destination for Namibians, and to a lesser degree also for Germans, but it's off the radar screen for most of the Anglosphere - so it seems clear to me that it belongs in OtBP rather than DotM.

Nomination
NA Swakopmund Arcade.JPG


  • Support as nominator. The "Do" section needs a bit of cleanup, but that's an easy fix. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 03:46, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. Very good article. I did some copy editing and doubtless, more is needed. Everything that's liable to have changed (e.g., hotel rates, openings and closings of restaurants) should be checked before the article is run. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:26, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Weak support. This was one of the African articles I compiled and translated (partially with help of Google translate though never word-by-word from translate as that is not allowed) from several other language versions last spring. Therefore the text in the article may read a bit funny. At that time I thought the 2015-16 winter season would be full so I didn't bother to give the article the final polish that is needed for a Main Page feature. I also added some prices, but there are still details here and there that could be added to listings if they are available on the Internet (when it comes to Africa this is frequently not the case). ϒpsilon (talk) 15:34, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
Word-for-word Google translate usually wouldn't produce fully good results, but you're saying it's not allowed per policy? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:30, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
Directly copying text from another source (in this case generated by a Google service) would be copyright violation. ϒpsilon (talk) 04:41, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
That seems like a stretch to me. The concept of copyright has to do with creative works, which might cover what a user enters into Google Translate, but certainly not the text that's mechanically spit out at the end. It's also notable that there's nothing on the Google Translate webpage that indicates any copyright claims on Google's part. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:32, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
Oops, somehow I missed what Ypsi said, "partially with help of Google translate though never word-by-word", which makes my comment above rather moot. Speaking as a frequent user of Google Translate, it's never a good idea not to proofread what comes out on the other end. :) -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 13:51, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
No, I don't do copypasta because then the result would be even worse. I rather try to make sense of what Translate generates without introducing any misinformation in the article which isn't always too easy especially with a language such as Russian (much of this article comes from ru:Свакопмунд) which is grammatically very different. ϒpsilon (talk) 15:25, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Close - It would be great to get an African destination on the main page but there are a lot of little things about this guide that make me hesitant to feature it as it currently reads. Some things I noticed:
    • The second and third paragraphs of the lede seem out of place. I'm not sure where is the best spot for them -- Understand maybe, an infobox, are they even necessary?
    • There are quite a few street addresses missing although all the listings have coordinates. I think it would be good to include them.
    • The Do section needs some clean up. There are a couple of listings at the top that I'm assuming can be added to the subsections, a couple of listings have no description, and a number of listings describe activities but there's no information on how to do them/which businesses do it (e.g., scenic flights, skydiving, quad biking).
    • There's also a Buy and Eat listing without description and contact info.
    • Currency references throughout the guide are inconsistent -- sometimes it's NAD and sometimes it's N$. -Shaundd (talk) 05:06, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
I remember some places not having proper street addresses at all (either no address or then just the street mentioned), but they still showed up on Google Maps and/or the Mapnik layer. This was also the case with places in Praia, for instance. Locals are probably used to navigating according to landmarks instead of addresses, just like in much of Asia. All currency references should now be N$, I've fixed them with "Search and replace". ϒpsilon (talk) 17:54, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
Earlier I had also fixed the lede, and apparently I forgot to make note of that here. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 18:03, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
Looks good, I support now. -Shaundd (talk) 17:12, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
  • Support. Beautiful Guide-status article. It could use a nicer banner, though. Ibaman (talk) 17:58, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

London/Hampstead[edit]

Place: London/Hampstead
Blurb: A lovely part of London, just a bit off the beaten path and a very pleasant place to spend a relaxing afternoon. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Star (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: May-September
Nominated by: Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:49, 15 September 2013 (UTC) (original nomination); AndreCarrotflower (talk) 20:16, 12 August 2015 (UTC) (renomination)
Comment: I suppose there's no point in further delaying pulling Hampstead out of the slush pile, since the summer 2016 months are going to start popping up on the back end of our schedule grid before too long.

For those of you who don't remember or may not have been around at the time, Hampstead is a unique case: it was not placed on the slush pile because of any deficiencies in the article, but due to scheduling concerns. In 2013, both Hampstead and City of London were nominees for the following summer, for OtBP and DotM respectively. While they were both fine articles, policy holds that two different districts of the same Huge City can't be featured on the Main Page less than two years apart. The City of London, being the site of Wikimania that year, won out, whereupon it was decided that instead of having Hampstead linger on this page for almost three years, it should be temporarily slushed with the understanding that it would be renominated later for 2016.

Because there have been no substantial edits to Hampstead since that time, I think it's fine to retain the support/oppose votes the article earned before it was slushed (with, of course, the option for any editor individually to change, rescind, or further elaborate on their previous vote if they choose). As for any nominated article that's been untouched for three years, it would naturally be a good idea to make sure all the listings are up to date.

Nomination
Kenwood House, London - geograph.org.uk - 3318.jpg


  • Support. This article duly went through the starnom process and was confirmed as a star, so unless there's some problem that wasn't noticed or has cropped up since, there shouldn't be any issue with the article, and as I said, it is a lovely part of London. The London article was featured in July/August, 2012, so that's the only issue I can see, but by next June, almost 2 years will have passed since then. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:57, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
  • Support, though I'm not convinced this article belongs in OtBP rather than DotM. Even if Hampstead isn't the most famous neighborhood in London, it's still fairly well-known.
As for the fact that London was featured as DotM in summer 2012, please see my comments here.
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 05:46, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
I'm not dead-set on it being OtBP rather than DotM, but as I recall, it's in Zone 3, and while Kenwood House is hardly unknown, it is not on the heaviest tourist routes, which are concentrated in Zone 1 plus the Kew Gardens and some other places I may be forgetting because I've been to London only once so far. I'll go along with whatever the consensus ends up being, and I would love to hear from Londoners on how they view the neighborhood in terms of beaten path vs. off the beaten path. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:18, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
  • Support. Burmesedays did great work on this one back in the day. I would definitely call it OtBP. I've been there (mostly to see Keats' House), but only because I've lived in London—I wouldn't have made it on a week-long trip, and I tend to get around! --Peter Talk 13:42, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
  • Support, and of course listings have to be updated a little before it's featured. ϒpsilon (talk) 15:09, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. It does need updating, but has a lot of good stuff. Something also needs to be done about the map - as lat/longs are added to listings they will get numbers, which won't match the current static map. I would suggest removing most of the listings from the static map, and adding a dynamic map to support listings. AlasdairW (talk) 22:16, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Salalah[edit]

Place: Salalah
Blurb: With its temperate climate, Dhofar’s historic capital is a cool escape from Arabian summers, and a winter wonderland for divers and naturalists. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: July-September, or November-March
Nominated by: Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:32, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
Comment: This is a very unusual Arabian destination. StellarD has done a wonderful job on it, and it's in fine shape for a feature.

Nomination
Downtown Salalah Oman.jpg
  • Support by nominator. Perhaps StellarD will have ideas about how to make the blurb more colorful. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:32, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. I'll work on the blurb. I'd also like to change the page banner to something a little more enticing. Regarding timing, this is a flexible destination and could fill several calendar slots. The high season is July and August during the khareef, with the most important annual festival held in August. The shoulder months are also good times, as then the room rates are not so sky-high. For divers and birders, the best months are in the winter. – StellarD (talk) 07:57, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Weather-wise Salalah probably could be featured during any month of the year. ϒpsilon (talk) 10:26, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
StellarD, do you agree with this? If so, please edit the "time" tab in the nomination to mention the best months and the fact that any month is fine to visit. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:25, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
w:Salalah#Climate is what I based my judgement on. The temperature is quite stable around the year, and there's no month with torrential rain. ϒpsilon (talk) 12:19, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
I've omitted June because it can be quite humid, and expanded the winter months. The blurb would be best tailored to whichever month is chosen, as the character of the place changes quite dramatically. – StellarD (talk) 17:16, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, StellarD. Could the blurb encompass both the khareef and winter in one sentence? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:13, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
  • StellarD - to answer the question you posed in your edit summary ("how flexible is the 145-character limit?"): de facto, the standard is three lines or less of text on the DotM banner. The new blurb should be fine - it could even probably be lengthened by a few words, if there's something else you wanted to include but didn't feel you had space for. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 16:38, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
You might use the blurb for Praia as a guide; it's just about the absolute maximum length that fits on three lines. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 16:40, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. Good information, if a bit sparse. Minor issues:
  • The "Climate" subsection should contain some prose rather than just the climate infobox.
  • "Go next" needs to be elaborated on a bit - sure Taqah is 35km away on Hwy 49 and you can drive to Mirbat in an hour, but why do I want to go to these places?
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 22:38, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment I think it's a good article, but I think the descriptions are lacking the kind of information that makes the reader want to visit. Maybe it needs a "History" section or just expand the Understand section. It says it was historically famous for the frankincense trade; give us some history. It was independent until the Qaboos came to power; did its independent status contribute to any unique cultural practices, etc? What happened when the Qaboos took over? Why/How did things change? The Jibbali tribes "maintain" government distrust; What distrust was there to begin with?
I think the "See" descriptions are similar. Surely some of the sites are worth more than a one-line description. Where is the hook? Where is the juicy information that pulls me in?
Job's Tomb and Ayn Razat should be in the "See" section. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 11:50, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Lady Elliot Island[edit]

Place: Lady Elliot Island
Blurb: At this island the impressive marine fauna and the corals of the Great Barrier Reef is just a dive away (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Per [1] Sep-Dec are best, but there are no bad months to visit
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 13:47, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
Comment: When nominating Hyden almost a year ago I really had to toss a coin whether to nominate that one or this one. So I have had my eyes on this one for quite a while. As the line of OtBP candidates is almost a year long I have to nominate Lady Elliott Island now to ensure it will be on the Main Page around this time next year. Most of the article content is written in early 2009 by User:Inas so probably a thing or two is not up to date. Nevertheless the article is probably better updated a month or two before the article is featured rather than now to make sure the article is up to date for the 2016-17 season.

Nomination
Australia lei lighthouse.jpg
  • Support as the nominator. ϒpsilon (talk) 13:47, 21 November 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment This is a small island with a single resort which seems to almost have a monopoly on eat, sleep and get in for most travellers. AlasdairW (talk) 00:16, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
Is that a problem? It wouldn't be our first OtBP like that - Childs isn't a resort, but it still has only one hotel, one restaurant (describing the convenience store/gas station as such is a stretch), and (effectively) one method of ingress and egress. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 00:44, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
My concern is that there is a single company proving flights, accommodation and meals, and it is a remote island. Childs may have only one eat, sleep etc, but there is no sign that they are all the same business, and one could easily go (possibly walk) to a neighbouring community to get something different. To me this seems to have something in common with Disneyland. I am not saying it can't be featured, but we must consider the issue, and the potential for negative feedback. AlasdairW (talk) 01:08, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
I don't think it's much of a problem, and of course we cannot do much about there being just one place for eating and sleeping :) . We just tell the voyager how things are and then its up to them if they'd like to visit or not. ϒpsilon (talk) 10:59, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
  • Very close. The article needs a proper lede, i.e. more than one sentence long. When that's fixed it will have my support. Also, this is a more minor concern, but it would be nice to see it addressed as well: perhaps this article's brevity is by necessity given that this is such an - ahem - off-the-beaten-path place, but are we sure we can't flesh out some of the descriptions on the listings? -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 00:50, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
It's possible, WP and the official web site seem to have some more info about the place. ϒpsilon (talk) 10:59, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
Comment: I'd be fine with featuring this island. The only thing I notice that really begs the question is this: "Private craft must pay the appropriate fees, and cannot use the resort facilities." What are the appropriate fees? I think we should find out what those fees are and input them before running this article. I also think it's somewhat important to note the duration of flights to the island and its distance in km from the mainland. Another thing that would be ideal would be to indicate how hazardous or circuitous it is to sail to the island, given its position in the Barrier Reef. And would it be highly destructive to the environment to arrive on a motorized craft, such that only sailboats should be used? The length of the lede doesn't trouble me because the "Understand" section is informative. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:06, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

North Central New Mexico[edit]

Place: North Central New Mexico
Blurb: Rich in culture and history, North Central New Mexico, with its high desert and mountain scenery made famous by Georgia O'Keeffe's paintings, offers much for the visitor. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Any, though Sep-Oct are preferred
Nominated by: PerryPlanet (talk) 21:08, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
Comment: I'm not entirely sure whether this should be a DotM or a OtBP; Santa Fe, which is within this region, is undeniably a "destination," although this guide deals more with the larger region beyond Santa Fe, which feels more fitting as a OtBP to me. Either way, this is a part of the world near and dear to my heart, having lived most of my adolescence there; as such, I can confidently say that our coverage of this region is very good. With the recent revision to the region article template rules, I've been putting some work expanding and updating what was already a pretty good set of guides, and I can't think of any substantial gaps in our coverage here; several of the city/destination articles are at "Guide" status (with Santa Fe at "Star") and none are below "Usable."

Nomination
Santuario de Chimayo, Chimayo, NM.JPG


  • Support — the article looks good with nice photos and even a hand-drawn map. Some of the destinations like Taos have outstanding articles. ϒpsilon (talk) 21:44, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
  • Support - Well put together article, and the images are beautiful. -- Ryan • (talk) • 04:37, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
  • Support - That's really a great article. I agree with OtBP. Danapit (talk) 10:16, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
  • Support - Nice piece of work! Ibaman (talk) 11:14, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
  • Support. Looks very good, and I'd like to praise everyone who worked on the article and made it so informative and pretty! There's one thing I'm wondering about, though: The "Scenic drives" section of "See" presents what may seem to some readers like a daunting wall of text, even though it's divided up into different bullets and indentations. What could we do to make it more easily digestible? I'm thinking that it might help a bit if each drive got its own 3rd-level subheading, rather than a bullet, with the introductory text moved just below the subheading. I'm also thinking that structuring the various legs of the drives more similarly to the way they'd look in a good itinerary article like Route 66 would be helpful - in other words, the first leg of the "High Road to Taos" itinerary would have a 4th-order subheading of "Santa Fe to Chimayó". What do you think? Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:34, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
I think 4th-level subheadings might be too narrow a level of specificity for such short itineraries as these. And anyway, I'm not sure what you would title some of those 4th-level subheadings; for instance, your "Santa Fe to Chimayó" suggestion wouldn't be entirely accurate, because that paragraph also explains how to start the itinerary from Española instead of Santa Fe. However, 3rd-level subheadings sound great. PerryPlanet (talk) 16:12, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Nominations for Featured travel topic[edit]

Armenian phrasebook[edit]

Place: Armenian phrasebook
Blurb: Armenians welcome visitors with open arms — but they're not the most proficient English speakers! What's a tourist to do? Brushing up on their unique language will warm your hosts' hearts all the more. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: anytime (late 2015 or 2016?)
Nominated by: AndreCarrotflower (talk) 03:37, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Comment: With Altitude sickness and Driving in New Zealand best held off till after year's end and a lack of other eligible candidates after September, we've currently got several open slots in the FTT column in late 2015. The understanding is that we try to limit ourselves to one phrasebook per year, but since we ran Finnish phrasebook way back in February, surely it's not a huge problem to feature another one in autumn or winter, right?

Nomination
Smiley face sign.jpg


  • Very, very close. All it needs as far as I can tell are a few pictures; an easy enough fix. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 03:37, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Actually I have some bad news. Armenian phrasebook#Money. And the user who wrote most of what's in the phrasebook is long gone. Anyone here who understands Armenian or need we pick another phrasebook? Personally I don't think there'd be a problem with two or even more phrasebooks a year though others my disagree.
Unbelievable that FTT is running out of candidates again! Time to add some more! ϒpsilon (talk) 17:48, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
It may not be as hopeless as you think. The translations in that section are present; it's just the pseudo-pronunciations that need to be added. The article says that Armenian is a very phonetically logical language and it's clearly described how each letter is pronounced, so all we need is for someone to transcribe the Armenian letters into the phonetic syllables. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 18:03, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Almost support — I think you're right, let's try to transcribe it and add some pretty pictures and feature it in the autumn or whenever. After all, this is to help visitors and not a professional course in Armenian. ;) ϒpsilon (talk) 18:22, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Yes Done, as nobody else has fixed it. The transcription with the stress should be correct to at least 50%. ;) Otherwise our readers have to check out our Star status Russkii phrasebook instead. ϒpsilon (talk) 20:03, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

Diving the Cape Peninsula and False Bay/Partridge Point[edit]

Place: Diving the Cape Peninsula and False Bay/Partridge Point
Blurb: Fish, seals and a wide range of invertebrates can be seen at Partridge Point which also features many unvisited spots. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Star (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Oct-May per Diving the Cape Peninsula and False Bay#Climate, weather and sea conditions
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 16:19, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Yes, we definitely should give one of our nice South African dive guides a month on the Main Page. So how about this Star? --ϒpsilon (talk) 16:19, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Nomination
Peters pinnacle cave.jpg
  • Support as the nominator. --ϒpsilon (talk) 16:19, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
  • This is a much better dive article than the previous nominee. Ideally I'd like to see the listings in this section expanded beyond one-liners (and I'm surprised that wasn't brought up when it was nominated as a Star) - but with Peter going inactive for the next little while nothing's probably going to get done about that, and anyway it's not enough to preclude my support. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 18:03, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. I don't have much of a way of judging a dive guide, but hey, it's a Star, and it looks very informative and is certainly nicely illustrated. I don't know what would be helpful in terms of expanding that section; I suppose it will be clear to any experienced diver (of which I am not one). I didn't realize Peter Southwood had gone inactive; that's a pity, but I hope it's because he's too busy enjoying life and comes back rested before too long. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:46, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
  • Comment The west side of False Bay is usually at its best during the winter months, but over the last couple of years has been good over a somewhat longer season, due to variations in the wind patterns. March to November would have described the season in 2015. I am not entirely inactive, but very busy on other projects. I still try to get in a couple of survey dives each week, so the maps are getting worked on when the sites are divable and scheduled, and I will try to go over the article soon to see if anything is dated. Probably won't get to update the map until May or so. If anyone has suggestions for tweaking the article in the meanwhile,let me know, and I will see what I can do. • • • Peter (Southwood) (talk): 09:42, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
Happy travels diving, Peter! :) ϒpsilon (talk) 17:12, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

Ruta del Tránsito[edit]

Place: Ruta del Tránsito
Blurb: Retrace the footsteps of old-time prospectors along what was once the main transcontinental crossing of the Americas, amidst southern Nicaragua's magnificent landscapes, history, and culture. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Any, though arguably the rainy season (~April-October) is slightly better as more boats run during that time and nature looks healthier (though the dry season is traditionally the main tourist season)
Nominated by: Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:05, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
Comment: I am quite possibly biased, but everything that can be learned about this route without actually going there again (which I intend to do once time and money align) is currently covered in the article and the only things missing are some wording tweaks that I feel unable to

Nomination
Ferryometepe.JPG


Anyway, about the article itself: "Understand" is exhaustively detailed; "Prepare" and "Get in" not quite as much so, but satisfactorily complete. "Go", on the other hand, seems too short: judging by the lengths of the text blurbs it seems like each leg of the journey ought to be described in more detail than it is currently. The cities referenced as waymarks, in particular, are not described in any real detail; well and good to provide an internal wikilink, but it's also nice to give a short bit of info and mention prominent points of interest in each. Also, "Go next" should be converted from prose to bullet-point listings.
I'm not quite ready to throw my support behind this feature yet, but it's close, and it doesn't seem like much work would need to be done to fix the issues with the article.
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 22:15, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
So in short there needs to be more detail on the cities/places along the way (calling a place like San Juan del Norte a "city" seems to be a stretch to me...) Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:19, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Almost IMO too the Go section should preferably be longer. Also a couple of more photos at the start and end and some less Capital Letters would be good. ϒpsilon (talk) 15:35, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
I edited the first subsection of the go section to include a bit of info on San Juan del Norte; please see whether this is heading in the right direction. As for capital letters.... Well ze Germans like Zem in all of zeir Words which are Substantives ;-). Furthermore I changed some of the markers (from see to go and from do to see) Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:03, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Hobbitschuster, the new information on San Juan del Norte was exactly what I had in mind. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 16:18, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Weiss ich doch :). And I, in turn, sometimes use capital letters too sparsely. I may as well support the article for the Main Page, though I'll still harvest Commons for a pic or two to add at the top and the bottom of the article. ϒpsilon (talk) 16:50, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Just an aside, unless you use the Swiss spelling you should write "Weiß" with an "ß"... And as to pictures... I've found commons somewhat lacking on quality images for Nicaragua... Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:05, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Deutsche Sprache, schwere Sprache. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:08, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
That you are quite right about ;-) Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:11, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Was too lazy to investigate what on the keyboard to press to get the "ß" and also forgot about the Special characters tool above the editing window... ϒpsilon (talk) 17:28, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Kein Probelm; Ich bin halt manchmal ein unbelehrbarer Klugscheißer ;-) Anyway, back to the issue at hand. What do you consider to be still missing before we can in good conscience feature this article on our main page? Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:06, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
I suspected that there would still be a thing or two to add to the relatively long first two legs leg, but as I see it on Google Earth I understand it's just rainforest with very small villages (there seems to be a biological reserve north of the river which I will add as a side trip). So probably it's OK to feature the article as it is. ϒpsilon (talk) 09:03, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
There are rumors that "somewhere there" there might be precolumbian remains or even pyramids (though I doubt pyramids, I wouldn't be surprised if major things still harken discovery in the jungle) and yes the Indio-Maiz is the second largest by surface area (after Bosawas) in Nicaragua and one of the least visited. It is fairly accessible by boat where it is close to the river, but other than that it can get quite remote pretty fast. I once went to the outskirts of said reserve, accessing it from El Castillo - guide highly recommended Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:34, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Hobbitschuster - I'm sorry I didn't get the chance to look over the changes you made until now. They were exactly what I had in mind. There are no other problems with the article that I can see, so I'm happy to support it.
We now have three support votes for Ruta del Tránsito (including Hobbitschuster's implied support as nominator) - anyone care to add a fourth?
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 04:51, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
Yes, in case it had not been clear before, I support my own nomination. As for other users who could weigh in, maybe User:Vmenkov and User:Justvagabonding might weigh in, either pointing out what still needs fixing or voting one way or the other? Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:23, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
Support. Nice piece of work, exciting exotic destination. Ibaman (talk) 17:52, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
I would like to support this article as well - itineraries such as this are what make Wikivoyage great. Nice work --Justvagabonding (talk) 04:09, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

The blurb[edit]

As this article is now at (or close to) the level needed for it be featured on our main page, we might wish to hammer out a better blurb. I think it should convey

  1. a sense of adventure
  2. The 19th century history of the route
  3. the stunning nature along the way
  4. possibly the remoteness of big chunks of it

- And all this of course in the size of a text message. My attempt at a blurb was done with little effort in a couple of seconds and can obviously be improved upon... Thoughts? Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:43, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

I'll take a crack at it sometime over the next few days. It shouldn't be too difficult, especially with the pointers you shared above. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 16:31, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:35, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
So.... It's in no way urgent, but are there any good ideas for a blurb already? Otherwise I might have to give it a try, but I fear I am bad at short concise writing (a disease common to those who share my native tongue) Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:23, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
Hobbitschuster, I just wrote a new blurb - what do you think? -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 13:04, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
Sounds good, thank you. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:28, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Consensus?[edit]

I am a bit confused. Is there consensus to feature this itinerary at some point (pending a better blurb)? If so, we may get into the discussion as to scheduling. If not, it should probably be slushed... But the discussion seems to just have... Stopped, I guess... Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:20, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Normally four "supports" is needed, but in practice if nobody actively opposes featuring the article, it's regarded as suitable for the Main page. RdT has my support vote and as you nominated the article, yours. Surprisingly, Ikan hasn't commented on this one.
Articles are mostly put into the schedule on a first-come-first-served basis, of course taking into account the month for when it is going to be scheduled. The table above should show just the articles for the next six months and are updated the 21st each month when the FTT goes live (ie. the day after tomorrow the March 2016 articles will appear). Also, they are not entirely frozen, once put in the table but can be moved around if needed.
As you recommended Ruta de Transito for April or onwards, it won't appear in the table yet, but it is there. ϒpsilon (talk) 15:48, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for clearing that up Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:19, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
I'd like to support this, because it's a very well-written and interesting article. But the unfortunate thing is that there are things that you are not sure of, like precisely how to get from Altagracia to Moyogalpa, when you have to take your rented horse or motorcycle one way, or whether you really could take a rented horse on the ferry from Moyogalpa to San Jorge. If only someone had tried these things and could comment. In a way, despite all the information that is in the article, it's more nearly "Usable for an adventurous person" than fully a Guide, as people are left a bit to their own devices on some stretches of this itinerary. This makes me torn on whether to actually support featuring it right now. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:57, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
The problem is that of all regular WV editors, I am the only one (to my knowledge) who has actually visited any of the stops on this itinerary. And I have never been on a horse in my live. So I do know that renting horses is a thing that you can do in Nicaragua. I also know that people of any gender and (almost) any social background regularly ride horses as a means of transport. And I also know that horses are common on Ometepe. As it is an island, the way they have gotten there has been drawn from inference. Taking the bus from Moyogalpa to Altagracia (or the other way round) is the definition of simple. Just sit down on your seat (hourly departures) and have enough small change in Corodbas ready. As for how to get there on horseback, I quite frankly have no first hand experience. And as I know about Nicaragua, it is really hard to do Internet research. However, I think the "horse and steamer" part is a nice gimmick but not the main part of this itinerary. The original route really was focused on getting to some point on the Nicaraguan Pacific as fast as possible and as such did not care about the landscape. The itinerary I created is based mostly on what can be done today with regularly scheduled transport. If you buy a horse on Ometepe, you would probably have to spend at least a hundred (or a couple hundred, I really don't know) Dollars, but the question of whether you can return a rented horse at some other point (I guess not) would not arise. As for motorcycles (again, me having no driver's license of any kind I don't know) it is quite likely that there is a way to return it in another place then you rented it... I hope this comment is helpful, though Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:35, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
I just reread the article, and I'm liking it better, but would it be possible to add specific information on things like where in each town to get the boat or bus? Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:55, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
Generally speaking, this is pretty self-evident, except maybe in the cases where it is already mentioned. Buses for example leave from the market or close to it. Hobbitschuster (talk) 10:44, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
Great. In that case, add a single clear sentence to that effect in an appropriate place. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:45, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
It didn't look like anyone else had added this information, so I just did so and now support running this article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:15, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

Progress report January 2016[edit]

  • There's only two months left until Ruta de transito goes on the Main Page, and - with the exception of one leg of the itinerary that was elaborated on by Hobbitschuster in August - the concerns that were raised about the "Go" section remain unaddressed.
This article frustrates me because it's really excellent in many respects, but the problems it has are severe enough to need fixing before I can support it. The "Understand" section really does a wonderful job of laying out the historical importance of the route vis-à-vis the California gold rush and so forth, and there's plenty of practical information regarding how to go about physically making the trip, but what's missing is the question of why a traveller would want to retrace this route in the present day. In other words, most people who want to simply take a boat down a river can do so in their own hometown, so what's the appeal of this particular river? With the exception of the very first leg of the itinerary - which I would love for the whole itinerary to resemble - most subsections of "Go" do nothing more than name the next town on the itinerary and tell how to get there. There are occasional passing references to the natural beauty of the jungle and whatnot, but that alone doesn't make me want to board a plane for Nicaragua. Tell me what there is to do in these places; paint a picture with your words of what there is to see along the way. It doesn't even have to be related to the history of the route - Ypsilon was on the right track when he added the part about the Indio Maíz Biological Reserve in El Castillo, which I doubt many Gold Rush prospectors cared about. If the towns along the route are so small and sleepy that there's nothing in particular for tourists to do there, say so and at least give a description of the place that's not generic. Is there a particularly nice church in the town square? A friendly cantina where you can stop for a drink? There's got to be something there; it's a town, after all.
Also, on another subject entirely, should the title of this article be Ruta de Transito, with the last word capitalized? We don't usually do that with travel topics, but itineraries with proper names (e.g. Natchez Trace Parkway) seem to be an exception. Thoughts, anyone?
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:02, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
About the name: in what form is it known? The Spanish Wikipedia article about the river calls it "Ruta del Tránsito". Are we or Wikipedia wrong, or is the name just not established? I suppose googling will not answer the question, as coverage on historic phenomenons on Internet is rather spotty. (Having the accent will help many with rudimentary Spanish skills pronounce the name right, so it should be used at least in the intro.) --LPfi (talk) 20:51, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
Perhaps Hobbitschuster, who has some personal familiarity with the route, might know some information about the name that we don't. But, failing that, I think you have a pretty compelling argument in favor of the article's name being changed to Ruta del Transito or ...Tránsito. (I'm not sure which of those our policy on diacritics would call for - if memory serves, it's fairly idiosyncratic and/or inconsistently applied - but I personally would be fine with either.) -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 21:21, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure I just made a mistake way back when. Both could be correct, but "del" is more likely to be correct. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:25, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
So according to a Nicaraguan person I just asked earlier today, it is de after all. But apparently neither is wrong as such... Anyway, I don't think that's the biggest issue of this article, but I would still like some resolution on this before the page goes on the main page. Anyway, there have been some recent updates (one of them by me, the others by Vmenkov, who seems to have very good knowledge of Ometepe) and I would like someone with a fresh set of eyeballs to have a look as to the flow of the prose and whether major things are still missing or there are contradictions within the article... Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:36, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
Thank you for the edits, Hobbitschuster. I'll take a closer look at them later and let you know my thoughts, but if they look anything like the edits you made to the San Juan del Norte - El Castillo leg of the itinerary, I don't think there will be any problem. As to the issue of the name: given the information you've shared here, I think the best course of action is to follow the convention on Spanish Wikipedia as filtered through our own policy on diacritics - that is, Ruta del Transito; with the "L" but without the accent mark. Absent any objections, I'll make that change in a day or so. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 23:10, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
I'll have a look at the article, too. But why not use the diacritic? Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:17, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
Ikan - it took me a while to search out the old Pub discussion about diacritics that I was remembering, but I finally found it. The salient comments are from ChubbyWimbus, timestamped 10:24 and 11:27, 20 January 2014. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 23:28, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
Well, this is what User:ChubbyWimbus wrote: "The rules regarding diacritics are that we try to avoid them. Namely, if there is a defined and relatively commonly used English name for a city/town/region/country/etc then it should be given preference over any foreign forms." Since - correct me if I'm wrong - there is no defined, relatively common English name for Ruta de Tránsito, I think we should use the diacritic. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:40, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
I was referring more to his comments about how despite the difference in Spanish pronunciation he still favors "Bogota" over "Bogotá", the latter of which is the most commonly used variant in both Spanish and English: "I've yet to meet a Spanish-speaker who is so dim that they could not figure out that Bogota is Bogotá. Even if there are Spanish-speakers who can't comprehend, it doesn't matter, because the English-language Wikivoyage is not meant for Spanish-speakers; it's meant for English-speakers." That being the case, I took a pro-diacritic stance in that discussion and I still do feel that way; I only wanted to do right by our policy. Ruta del Tránsito it is, then. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 23:47, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
For the record, I prefer the diacritic in Bogotá, too, because it helps people pronounce the name correctly. Bogota without the diacritic is a town in New Jersey, pronounced "buh-GO-tuh". -:) Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:58, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

(indent) This location doesn't seem to be a commonly referenced location period, so the diacritic seems fine. One indicator is that a Google search actually lists our article. On Bogota, people who don't care about pronunciation will not be helped by the diacritic anyway and people that do care are often already aware of how Spanish is pronounced. Adding the diacritic would not make "buh-goh-tuh" change for such people. Even the country name, which has no diacritics is "Kah-luhm-bee-ah" to many people. The "helpful" argument seems moot to me, since it's always more "correct" to write a location in its native language. Moscow is a well-established English name that is not said "correctly" (if we are saying that correct pronunciation must be its native Russian pronunciation). Even among English-speakers there are those who say "moss cow" and those who say "moss koh", both of which are equally wrong when compared to Russian, but communication about the city is not hindered because it's not written in the same way or spoken the same as the natives. It's okay for English not to be the same. Even when it is the same, we have Mee-lahn and Mih-lahn, Kass-ah-blahn-kah and Kah-sah-blahn-kah. All articles should have the correct local pronunciation at the top as well as the name written in its native language(s), but if people don't get it, they don't get it. For our part, when it comes to helping the traveler, it's enough. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 08:38, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

I take your points, but when there's no difference in lettering, only whether to use a diacritic or not, I'm pro-diacritic. I pronounced the name "BOH-goh-tah" until I became aware of the diacritic. But anyway... :-) Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:41, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
At any rate, I moved the page. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 05:16, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Nuclear tourism[edit]

Place: Nuclear tourism
Blurb: Atomic science has left all sorts of landmarks around the world; impressive, tragic, fascinating and ones that still radiate. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: April 2016 for the 30th anniversary of the Chernobyl disaster
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 18:41, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Thanks to Dana and other contributors for this fine article. Nuclear tourism is something new for most of our readers, I think, and thus I really look forward to having this one on the Main Page. Perhaps the article would need to be streamlined a little bit, but content-wise I'm confident everything is there. So, what do you say?

Nomination
Trinity site, New Mexico.jpg


  • Support as the nominator. --ϒpsilon (talk) 18:41, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. This is a lot more extensive than it was the last time I read through it. I did a bit of copy editing, and it probably could use more, but it's pretty impressive and definitely an interesting and unusual travel topic. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:08, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. Thanks for the nomination, ϒpsilon, and all those who contributed lately to upgrade Nuclear tourism to guide status. Perfect timing for the anniversary. Until then we can do some more polishing and I have a couple more listings to add. Danapit (talk) 16:39, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
  • After the talk page discussion about it went dormant, I was wondering whether we were still planning on nominating this article for FTT. I'd also like to take this opportunity to commend Yvwv and Hobbitschuster for all the hard work they've done lately in the realm of new travel topic articles, including this one. If this momentum keeps up, we might be well on our way to a solution to the perennial paucity of new FTT candidates.
As to the article itself, it looks almost flawless, but I'd like to see more in the way of description for the Crimean Atomic Energy Station, as well as one-liner blurbs under the Related topics, if possible. However, those issues are far too minor to get in the way of my support vote.
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 19:26, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
Why, thanks for the compliment. And as for the topic at hand.... Well an anniversary (either of a certain nuclear incident or of one of the major advances of the technology) is as good a date to feature as any. However, some may perceive it as cynicism to "celebrate" the anniversary of - say - the Chernobyl disaster thusly. While I don't share these concerns, we need to be aware of that. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:43, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
It would be a commemoration, just like the 70th anniversary of D-Day, not a celebration. I don't see a likelihood of anyone objecting, as long as the blurb is sensitive, as I'm sure it will be. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:48, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Money[edit]

Place: Money
Blurb: No matter where you go and for how long, you're likely to need something to pay with. Check out our guide to learn of the advantages and drawbacks of different forms of payment. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Anytime
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 18:46, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
Comment: One of our most extensive travel topics that we haven't featured yet!

Nomination
ATM Masalli.jpg


  • Support ϒpsilon (talk) 18:46, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. Looks good! -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 12:59, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Might be good to have a couple of sentences stating the obvious - different countries use different currencies and rates vary etc - at the start for first time travellers. It probably should have a caution "Check with your bank for definitive advice", as I wonder whether there are some statements that don't apply to cards issued by all banks in all countries. AlasdairW (talk) 22:01, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Driving in the UK[edit]

Place: Driving in the UK
Blurb: Left-hand traffic, imperial units, unfamiliar street markings and congestion fees; British traffic has some surprises for everyone. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Anytime? Or just the warmer half of the year? And yes, there should perhaps be a month or two between this one and London/Hampstead.
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 09:41, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
Comment: I illustrated this one a while back, by then it already was a guide, I believe everything relevant about driving in the UK is in the article, and otherwise we can ask some of our UK contributors to help out. So why not have this one as FTT?

Nomination
Traffic on Romney Road in Greenwich, London.jpg
  • Support — Yup, here's Ypsi hogging yet another featured article slot [evil laughter].ϒpsilon (talk) 09:41, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Support, but wait until 2017. Too many UK articles, and too many "Driving in..." travel topics, in too short a span of time. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 14:47, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. This is a very impressive article in terms of its coverage, and perhaps a good example for other "driving in" articles. It should be proofread for possible copy editing before it's run (I did some copy editing but didn't try to be thorough). Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:28, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Earthquake safety[edit]

Place: Earthquake safety
Blurb: How would you act if an earthquake strikes? Find out how to prepare for it and what to do afterwards. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Any
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 16:37, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Everything important should be here, per the talk page. If anyone living in an earthquake-affected part of the world has anything to add, or anything obviously erroneous to remove feel very free to do so!

Nomination
Rescue workers during recovery efforts - Van Earthquake 2011.jpg
  • Support as the nominator. ϒpsilon (talk) 16:37, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Support It looks a reasonable article. The last paragraph of Tsunamis may be too strongly "don't climb a tree" as this New Zealand page does suggest doing so if you can't escape. It needs a "See also" before it goes on the main page. I am also wondering about having a "See" section which could a) list museums that have good explanations, simulations etc b) list past earthquake sites where visitors are welcome, and there maybe damage repair etc to be seen (see Earthquake tourism in Christchurch. AlasdairW (talk) 23:43, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Support, I guess, though the article seems pretty short. Could it perhaps be expanded a bit? -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:38, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment. I'm thinking over whether to support this article or not. It needed a lot of copy editing, and I also didn't like that it told people to go home after an earthquake, seeming to discourage any impulse to stay and do volunteer relief work, which some tourists did in places like Nepal and Thailand after earthquakes. What do you all think? I realize this is about earthquake safety, not volunteering, but I don't think we should actively discourage people from helping out if they want to. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:43, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
I guess I feel like it's featurable now, but I'd feel a whole lot more comfortable not being the 4th vote for it and having someone like User:ChubbyWimbus, who has a keen critical eye, or User:LtPowers or both, look at the article and see what he/they think(s) of it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:52, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
At a first glance, it seems a bit short. Without knowing more about earthquake safety, though, my comments would have to be limited to issues of style. Powers (talk) 02:51, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for having a look at it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:26, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

The blurb[edit]

Is it just me or did you violate the "no would after if" rule? Could an English native speaker please have a look? I am not sure either, but if and when this is featured, we don't want an error in the blurb... Hobbitschuster (talk) 06:29, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. I just tweaked it. It doesn't promote our guide so much anymore, but it is more grammatically correct. Anyone should please feel free to tweak it further. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:39, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

Copenhagen Airport[edit]

Place: Copenhagen Airport
Blurb: Scandinavia’s major air hub is a calm and pleasant experience complete with Danish design. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Any
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 16:37, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
Comment: One of our better airport articles. A large thank you to User:Kalaha for starting up the CPH article and also writing much of the content.

Nomination
Copenhagen Airport Mai 2009 PD 099.JPG


  • Support as the nominator. ϒpsilon (talk) 16:37, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Almost - The article looks nice and has (almost) all the things we would want in an airport article, but there are still some quirks and a few things that I would want a bit more detail about. E.g. the expansion plans: When were they announced and how serious are they? If they are put to action what will the effect on voyagers be? Hobbitschuster (talk) 06:37, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Very close. Hobbitschuster is right that more could be said about the expansion plans, but that alone wouldn't be enough to preclude my support. A bigger issue is the need for copyediting (phrases like "In terminal 3, the terminus of Copenhagen Metro line M2 is located" make it pretty obvious that the article could do with some attention from a native English speaker). That being said, the information itself seems very complete and it shouldn't be too difficult to get CPH up to a featureable state. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:37, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

American Industry Tour[edit]

Place: American Industry Tour
Blurb: The American Industry Tour is a showcase of industrial heritage, from the colonial workshops of Boston, through New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Michigan, to Chicago. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Outline (not reviewed) Usable (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Summer, preferably
Nominated by: Yvwv (talk) 15:09, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Since I wrote most of the article, other users' opinions are needed.

Nomination
Saugus Ironworks Forge and Mill, Saugus MA.jpg


  • This article is very well-written - it's definitely Usable (and I've upgraded it as such), with the only barriers to Guide status being the lack of one-liner descriptions on the entries in the "See also" section, and a few bare listings in the itinerary itself. However, I cannot support this article until the problem with the article name (described on the talk page) is resolved.
The problem as I see it is twofold:
  • First of all, "Manufacturing Belt" is not a recognized term in the United States. That is to say, if a tourist with no knowledge of the U.S. were to arrive and ask the natives about the "Manufacturing Belt", they would probably be able to suss out what the tourist was referring to, but no one in the U.S. uses that term themselves. The region at issue is understood to be called the Rust Belt.
  • Secondly, the article's title should reflect the fact that it's an itinerary. Even if we were to rename the article to "Rust Belt", the title would still sound more like an extrahierarchical region. In fact, at Wikivoyage:Requested articles I myself proposed the creation of such an extraregion article (Rust Belt currently exists as a redirect to Manufacturing Belt). It's arguable that the term "Rust Belt" may have a slightly negative connotation in the U.S., so on the talk page earlier I suggested the title Industrial American Tour (currently another redirect to Manufacturing Belt).
I will be happy to support this article when it's renamed with a title that reflects common usage and clarifies the article's status as an itinerary rather than a destination. Additionally, down the line, what I'd ideally like to see happen is the creation of a Rust Belt extraregion article, with Manufacturing Belt redirected there.
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 21:55, 20 December 2015 (UTC)
  • Articles need to have Guide status to be featured on the Main Page. Nevertheless it looks like the article is in a good shape and it could probably be promoted to Guide with comparatively little work :). ϒpsilon (talk) 11:58, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
Name changed. /Yvwv (talk) 14:38, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
But that only solves one half of the problem. When I click on an article called Rust Belt, I expect it to be a destination article - just the same as I'd be surprised if I clicked on Wales or Sumatra or Upper Peninsula only to discover that they were itineraries. There's got to be something in the title to reflect what kind of article it is. Rust Belt Tour or Industrial America Tour, or something like that, is a much more acceptable title. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 16:41, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
Rust Belt Tour it is, then. /Yvwv (talk) 17:33, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
Thank you. Since that was the only issue standing in the way of my support, I suppose I'll cast my vote then. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:41, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
  • Not yet. I like the idea of this guide, but I think it has a ways to go before it can properly be considered at "Guide" status. A lot of the listings have no descriptions, and even many that do give you no real sense of why you should visit this place. I see the framework for a good itinerary here, but I think it needs to be fleshed out much more. PerryPlanet (talk) 22:09, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
  • I'm afraid I'm having trouble with the inclusion of areas such as Boston, NYC, and Jersey in the "Rust Belt". While they did have strong manufacturing bases that are now weakened or gone, the term "Rust Belt" further implies the lack of replacement of those industries with new ones -- that is, all the old buildings are rusting and disused. From that perspective, it seems bizarre to include healthy post-industrial cities while excluding Erie, Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, and Binghamton. Powers (talk) 22:45, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
  • The two comments above this one are convincing. I'm quite sure that we have plenty of hands on deck (self included) who can help bring the article up to speed by next summer, though, and I'd love to see this article featured, so I will be monitoring the progress on this nominee with interest. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 05:32, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
Yet another name change; the article is now named American Industry Tour. Concerning industrial towns in western New York State, they get mentioned in the Erie Canal articles. We could however consider an alternative route westward from Albany, through Ontario, connecting to Detroit. /Yvwv (talk) 15:27, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
I see where you're coming from with your concerns about Erie Canal, Yvwv, especially since the canal was what spurred the first phase of industrialization in Upstate New York. But if you look at that article, Powers only occasionally hits on the topic of industrial history (mainly in the "Understand" section) while focusing mostly on the canal's present-day role as an amenity for pleasure boaters - the itinerary itself is given over mostly to general tourist information for the towns the canal passes through, as well as practical information for boaters (lift bridges, locks, public docks, etc). While there are undoubtedly many ways the two articles could interface with each other, I don't think it would be in any way redundant for them to coexist in the same geographical space, with different focuses and therefore different information. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:48, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
Also: IMO it would be a bad idea to route the itinerary between Buffalo and Detroit via Ontario. With the exception of a few outliers such as Windsor and maybe the Welland Canal corridor, the economy of that part of Canada historically had much more to do with agriculture than heavy industry. I'm actually in favor of retaining the portion of the itinerary in Western Massachusetts - while not part of the Rust Belt proper, manufacturing did play an important role in that region's economy, with the same pattern of decline post-WWII - and from there I'd have the route cross Upstate New York via I-90 (i.e. the Erie Canal corridor), bypassing New Jersey and the New York City vicinity entirely, and continuing through Ohio and Michigan as it does currently. Pennsylvania obviously needs to be worked in somewhere too, but how to do so in a practical way is a tougher question than I can answer by cell phone on my break at work.) -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 19:42, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
  • I am struggling to understand that this is a one week trip - three weeks sounds more likely. Day 5 has 13 stopping points listed! There is no text linking the places, to give an idea of times between places ("15 minutes west on I123 you will come to..."). It is also missing any suggestions of places to sleep (not hotel listings, but suggest which cities - last one of current day, first of one of next day etc) - or is it good to do the trip in a camper van. AlasdairW (talk) 05:03, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
  • AlasdairW has a good point. This reads like a travel topic. Even though it says "Day 1, 2, 3, etc", looking at it, each "day" is actually just a different state. I also agree that it's fine to have the same sites listed in multiple itineraries/travel topics, as long as the topics themselves are different. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 14:35, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
Agreed with ChubbyWimbus that this would work better as a travel topic, especially since there's no obvious route to follow (see my comments above timestamped 19:42, 22 December). -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 14:48, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Hiking and backpacking in Israel[edit]

Place: Hiking and backpacking in Israel
Blurb: Best known for its cultural and religious heritage, Israel also has plenty to offer hikers and backpackers! (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Fall or spring are probably best
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 22:44, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
Comment: A great article that I've had my eyes on for a year. Mostly written by User:Tamuz (huge thanks to him for writing it) and as I asked him about the empty headings he (who should know about this topic) said it's fine to remove them and he also thought the article was ready to be nominated.

Nomination
Ein Avdat Flood 1.JPG


  • Let's delete the empty sections for now, but I'm willing to support the article as is. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:58, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
  • Support I like the article, but I am in no hurry to go hiking carry 7.5 litres of water per day! A few minor points: There are some empty sections that could be deleted, and before it goes on the main page it would benefit from some more links to other travel topics including a See Also section linking to other Hiking articles and other Israel topics. The article has a lot of internal links, possibly a few could go. AlasdairW (talk) 22:27, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
  • Looks good overall, but I can't support the article in good conscience until the empty sections are filled or deleted. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 16:31, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Historic Churches of Buffalo's East Side[edit]

Place: Historic Churches of Buffalo's East Side
Blurb: There's an embarrassment of architectural riches to be marvelled at in Buffalo's old German and Polish quarters: proud silent witnesses to the rise, decline and incipient rebirth of the Queen City. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Starnom (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Mar 2017 for Dyngus Day, otherwise Apr-Sep
Nominated by: AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:18, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
Comment: By 2017 it will have been two years since Buffalo was featured as DotM. Ever since I wrote this article, I had envisaged it as a possible FTT, but I was going to hold off for a few months on nominating it because I assumed it would be a summer feature, and there's no need to have it clogging up this page for north of a year. Then I remembered that Dyngus Day - a Polish ethnic festival that takes place on Easter Monday, which in 2017 falls on April 17 - represents a unique opportunity to witness both the exterior and interior of many of these old churches, which (at least in the case of St. Stan's, Corpus Christi, and St. Casimir's off the top of my head; probably others too) are open to the public as festival venues. So, atypically for a Northern U.S. destination, I'm positing March 2017 as the month to feature this article - that way it will be on the Main Page until April 20, with the end of its run coinciding with Dyngus Day. The schedule grid currently extends as far as summer 2016, so maybe it's still too early to be nominating it now, but I wanted to do so before I forgot.

Nomination
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  • Support as nominator. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:18, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
  • Support. Absolutely marvelous itinerary. PerryPlanet (talk) 15:44, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
  • Support — the article looks great! When I saw you working on the article I sort of expected to see it on the Main Page someday. One thing, though; I think the Go section could use intermediate headings.
Another thing, is this a personal itinerary? Don't get me wrong, personally I don't agree with the ban on personal itineraries and would lift it right away, but someone might complain... ϒpsilon (talk) 18:39, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
Agreed about subheadings. Regarding the issue of whether this is a personal itinerary (which did creep up in my mind from time to time as I wrote it), it seems to be in a gray area - IMO the question of which East Side churches are most architecturally notable and most historic, therefore best suited for this itinerary, is only partially subjective. More to the point, though there haven't been any changes to the actual policy page, from subsequent conversations we've had on this site (particularly in vfd) it seems like we've gradually backed off from the hardline stance we initially took against personal itineraries. My reading of the current situation (correct me if I'm wrong, anyone) is that we still discourage the creation of articles in the format "(x) days in (y) destination" or similar, while leaving alone most other itineraries that might be construed as personal, provided they're reasonably well developed. And in any case, the prescribed alternative - folding all of this information into Buffalo/East Side - would easily overwhelm what is already the longest destination article on the entire site. I'll leave it up to consensus, but I am 99.999% confident that if anyone had an issue with this article under the personal itinerary clause, it would have come up already (at Starnom if nowhere else). -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 19:42, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
It would be really good to have an agreement to a formal change in the "personal itineraries" policy, and I don't think it would be so easy to accomplish. As I recall, User:Texugo has been particularly skeptical about driving itineraries from one city to another, so I'd really like his input on this nomination. As for me, I think this article is a thing of awe and exemplary, so obviously, this is my vote of support for featuring it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:15, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
This article has a specific theme, which allows it to be created collaboratively. That means it doesn't fall under the "personal itinerary" prohibition. Powers (talk) 19:39, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
That's a good point, but wouldn't it very clearly apply to all the "X City to Y City" itinerary articles that some Wikivoyagers have a problem with? Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:12, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
It does have the element I typically oppose, which is no clear reason for a suggested order or starting/end point, meaning person 1 writes an itinerary saying "this itinerary goes from A to B to C to D to E to F to G", and then person 2 changes it (or even makes a different page) saying "this itinerary goes from A to B to E to F to C to G to D" and then person 3 says "this itinerary goes from "C to D to E to F to G to A to C to B" and so on, with several equivalently reasonable routes possible. Obviously this article is developed past the likelihood of anyone stepping in and changing it willy nilly, but the point still stands in that, for anyone not strictly following the arbitrary order frozen into the prose, it is more difficult to use than if the article were built as a travel topic. This is not actually the most egregious of examples, since the arrangement of the sites happens to be loosely circular and therefore somewhat limiting the number of equivalent alternative routes (though the start and end points are still arbitrary). That said, I'd still express a preference for not making up random routes when there is no obvious linear sense to the attractions. There is too much personal preference involved, and the article becomes less easy to use for anyone who wants to do things in a different, equally reasonable order. Texugo (talk) 20:32, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
You're right about the loosely circular arrangement, but the start and end points were very deliberately chosen and are absolutely not arbitrary. The starting point of the itinerary is also the starting point chronologically of East Side religious history, and the endpoint is symbolic of the end of the chapter of East Side history that gave us these churches, and the beginning of the next one. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 20:49, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
As long as that is clear from the article and unlikely to inspire or serve as precedent for other itineraries with no clear reason for the route order, I suppose don't have a huge problem with this particular case. Texugo (talk) 11:34, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
  • Support It is very detailed, verging on too long (30 pages as a pdf), but good. I think that it should have a summary in the introduction - something like "This is a 20 mile half day tour by car looking at the outside of churches (built between 18xx and 19xx) in Buffalo, New York (state)." If any of the churches can be visited inside then this should also be said, and summarised at the start so that the trip can be planned to fit the opening hours. It might be good to suggest ways of cutting the route short if pressed for time. AlasdairW (talk) 00:08, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
Regarding the interior of the churches, you made the same comment at Starnom, and I don't know how much there is to say about that without straying into Captain Obvious territory. The churches that remain active (either as home to their original congregation, to a successor congregation, or as an oratory) can be visited at service times which are listed in the main East Side article; those that aren't are off limits to the public. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 01:10, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
Sorry. I think that this is something that varies a bit by location. In many European cities most churches are open during the week. This may be primarily for prayer, but usually allows some sightseeing. So for the benefit of overseas readers it is worth being clear that the churches are closed. AlasdairW (talk) 15:56, 29 January 2016 (UTC)