Wikivoyage talk:Destination of the month candidates

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This page is intended for meta-discussion about the DotM/OtBP process itself.

Discussions about candidate articles should go on Wikivoyage:Destination of the Month candidates. Archives of older nomination discussions can be found at Wikivoyage:Destination of the Month candidates/Archive.

Archives of older discussions of this page can be found at Wikivoyage talk:Destination of the month candidates/Archive

American cuisine[edit]

I identified a number of deficiencies with this article in the discussion regarding its nomination, and to cut a long story short, I think those issues, which remain unresolved, are serious enough that I am really not comfortable running it as FTT this month. I am aware that holding up this article's term on the Main Page when I myself haven't worked toward resolving its issues is rather unfair, and I want to make it clear that I do intend to do that (and to demonstrate my good faith, I've created a page in my userspace where you can track my progress in realtime). But I'm leaving this comment here just so nobody is blindsided by the fact that American cuisine has switched places with Czech phrasebook in the schedule. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:24, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

No FTT update?[edit]

April 21 was yesterday, but the Main Page Featured Travel Topic hasn't been updated. Andre has over the last years taken care of it but he hasn't been active since the last (OtBP) update a week and a half ago. Is there someone here who'd like to do it (one needs to be an admin to make changes to the Main Page)?

Also, is everything OK with you, Andre? From the message on your user page I see you're not in the mood of contributing here as much as before, and I understand it completely but please let us know if you're taking a break from the project. --Ypsilon (talk) 04:33, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Oops. In the schedule it is commented as "pending fixes and stronger consensus", and the last comments in the discussion are "Needs a considerable amount of work" and "I'm ready to support it when [...]". Is the article ready for prime time, should Czech phrasebook stay until some last minute fixes have been done or should something else be done? –LPfi (talk) 06:49, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
See also the above section and User:AndreCarrotflower/American cuisine, which hasn't been edited since the day it was created (when a chunk on regional cuisines was added). There has been only a few small edits to the article itself since it should have appeared at the main page. –LPfi (talk) 07:04, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
So, assuming neither Horse racing nor American cuisine are good to go, what about the Stockholm history tour? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:23, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
The last comment (and the only detailing issues) was "... weather and season (...), what you should wear (including footwear), whether you should expect to cross lots of roads, whether there are any access issues for people with mobility problems, whether there are alternatives to walking (cycling, public transport?". These issues have not really been dealt with, but I don't think they are crucial: the problems in Gamla Stan (the old town) are described and I don't think there should be any nasty surprises if you have read Stockholm#Climate and Stockholm#By foot. –LPfi (talk) 14:46, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
There are banners available for both Stockholm history tour and The Wire Tour and the latter has 4 support votes. --Ypsilon (talk) 16:08, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
@LPfi: But equally, it wouldn't take long to add them to the article, even if in less detail than the city article.
@Ypsilon: I don't particularly care which one we choose, but I think we should do so ASAP. If The Wire has marginally more support, then my vote is for that one. And maybe also move subsequent FTTs forward by a day or two to make sure it gets the full month?--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:18, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
@ThunderingTyphoons!: I added short notes on climate and walking, from the Stockholm article. Is that enough? I have not been biking or using buses in Stockholm, so I leave that part for somebody else ( Yvwv?). –LPfi (talk) 17:03, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
I don't think we need to move things forward (after all February has 28 days for example) but we should absolutely do the change today or at the very last tomorrow. In the slush suggestion for the Horse racing nomination I mentioned we could run Stockholm now and Wire later.
But another solution would be running the Wire tour now, the Stockholm tour in June when originally intended (would give a month for Ywvw or someone to fine tune the article), and American cuisine sometime later in the fall, October maybe, which is the next month that should emerge in the schedule (that article can be featured anytime of the year). --Ypsilon (talk) 16:41, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
Baltimore's weather seems to be more favorable now. Detailed feedback for the Stockholm history tour would be appreciated. /Yvwv (talk) 16:54, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
Actually, we need one for May as well, so a following setup would work: Wire tour right now, Stockholm history tour in May, and American cuisine in June. --Ypsilon (talk) 16:56, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
(edit conflict KO) Good point about February (apparently the early Romans went "off-calendar" over the winter until the spring equinox began a new year). Looks like The Wire Tour is ready to go now.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:58, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
I'm not sitting up till 1AM again waiting to change the Main page, so is it fair to say that we have consensus for The Wire tour? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:06, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
Yes, let's go for the Wire, and we should preferably have someone from for example America or Australia, or some night owl, to do the updates if it's important to have them at exactly midnight GMT. A few years ago, luckily not the night before a workday, I sat up until almost 3AM over here. --Ypsilon (talk) 17:27, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
Stockholm had snow today. Weather in late May will probably be more favourable. Sweden has lighter pandemic restrictions than most other European countries, and most shops and restaurants are open. Some museums and other venues are closed, set to open in mid-May (unless the pandemic gets a lot worse). We still have restrictions for non-EU/EEA citizens to enter Sweden. /Yvwv (talk) 18:30, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── I've switched over the FTT to The Wire. We had a few centimetres of snow settle in Hampshire last week but there was no trace by midday because of a 20° increase in temperature; climate change, eh? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 19:04, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

DotM update[edit]

It's the 1st of May and now it's the DotM that needs to be updated from Pambanan to Nicosia... --Ypsilon (talk) 12:37, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

@Ypsilon: Thanks for being on the ball. Changed.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:22, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
The nomination has no comments except from the nominator, and the article has three dead links and one formerly dead link to a Facebook page needing login (I don't have an account). Ypsilon updated it last June, but it might need checking once more, promptly. –LPfi (talk) 13:31, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
Sure, I could go through it later today. Ypsilon (talk) 13:32, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
It might be a good idea to set up some template magic to change the banners automatically, like we have for "Discover". That would help ensure they're updated on time, though of course volunteer effort would still be needed to make sure the articles are polished. —Granger (talk · contribs) 13:39, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Could someone please change the OTBP to Crawford (Nebraska) at midnight UTC (i.e. in about 3½ hours)? If no-one can, I'll change it in the morning.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:31, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

doneLPfi (talk) 01:04, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
@LPfi: Thank you! I wasn't expecting someone in Europe to do it. How late did you have to stay up? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 07:47, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
I just happened to be up and realised it was time for a change. We have EEST=UTC+3, so I wouldn't have planned for it. –LPfi (talk) 10:28, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
The instructions are good and the change well prepared, so it was easy, but checking around took more time than I had expected. –LPfi (talk) 10:31, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
Thanks a lot for updating, and for the record I don't think it matters that much if the article update takes place a couple of hours earlier or later than midnight UTC. Ypsilon (talk) 11:37, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
June 1st, it's Winnipeg time... --Ypsilon (talk) 16:29, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
Done – let me know if I missed any steps. —Granger (talk · contribs) 17:33, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
Thanks, I think you did most steps. It's the change to the Main Page that requires admin powers, the rest I can take care of. Ypsilon (talk) 17:42, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
Having not been around much lately I did not realize Andre had become inactive. My time zone (Eastern U.S. and Pacific) correlates well for making edits at midnight UTC, so I’d be happy to chip where necessary, as he did many of the administrative duties around here. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 22:43, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
Requesting OtBP update of the Main Page (Crawford -> Visp). --Ypsilon (talk) 05:17, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── 1st of July now. I can volunteer to do the other steps, but could someone who has rights to edit the Main Page please replace Winnipeg with Cork? --Ypsilon (talk) 15:23, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Done. Why don't you have Main page editing rights? Ground Zero (talk) 15:30, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Thanks. I think one has to be an admin to edit the Main Page, and I don't want to be an admin (or then I need an alternative account to do my normal editing here and use the admin account to update the featured articles at most thrice a month). The rollback tool which I had a for a while I had no use for except inadvertently reverting edits every now and then when scrolling up and down Recent changes. --Ypsilon (talk) 15:37, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Would you like a separate account for admin rights (main page updates)? We can give it to you specifically for Main Page edits. I’m sure no one would oppose. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 20:17, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
What's that template editor thing, which I think SHB had before he became administrator? Looks like this enables you to edit the Main Page.
Secondly I do not necessarily have the time to log in here every day so it would be good if someone out of the 10+ contributors who edit here every day would remember the to do the updating (I wonder what happened to Andre?), preferably around midnight UTC. --Ypsilon (talk) 08:44, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
That doesn't just enable people to edit templates? Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:50, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
Here's the edit to the Main Page by SHB in April that made me wonder if template editors have access to the main page too. --Ypsilon (talk) 08:58, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
SHB2000, before you were an admininistrator you were able to edit the Main Page (see the link above), am I correct that this was because you had template editor rights? Also, today Neuland should go on the Main Page as OtBP. --Ypsilon (talk) 13:51, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
Yes, it was also why just autoconfirmed users weren't able to edit my userpage. But I've given you template editor rights now. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 00:19, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
Thanks! :) --Ypsilon (talk) 04:11, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
I can put a reminder on my phone. Is it correct we change banners the beginning of the 1st, 11th, and 21st? --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 12:21, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
Yup. Ypsilon (talk) 12:28, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

New OtBP icon?[edit]

Previous Destinations of the Month and Previously Off the beaten Path articles both get a green tick mark icon in the upper right corner or the banner when their month on the Main Page is over, previous FTT articless get an orange pen icon. I wonder if it would be a good idea to have separate icons for the DotM and OtBP so the reader could identify what kind of feature the destination once was?

Spanish WV has a calendar for previous DotMs and a "right turn" roadsign for previous OtBPs. But to keep the design similar to the icons we already use I'd suggest using the icon French WV uses for disambiguation pages, a light blue question mark in a light blue circle. This would also underline the fact that OtBPs are, perhaps not unknown, but at least less known places for visitors. Thoughts? Ps. Template:Pagebanner/styles.css is, I think, the place to make the change if we agree to do this. --Ypsilon (talk) 16:18, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Support SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 07:49, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Anyone else? --Ypsilon (talk) 15:14, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
I don't like the question mark, but I'd be OK with the right turn. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:36, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
I prefer the right turn. A question mark suggests "help". User:AlasdairW 21:50, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
Yeah, the arrow looks cool. Support changing OtbP to that.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:02, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
Does the {{pagebanner}} have an OtBP variable? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 09:04, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
There is a customisable feature (otbp=yes) which displays the template icon if that's what you mean by "variable".--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:06, 2 July 2021 (UTC) (updated 09:17)
Thanks! Thought there was only DoTM, since both are the same icon. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 09:09, 2 July 2021 (UTC) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 09:09, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
Makes sense. Whoever designed the pagebanner template obviously thought ahead to this very moment and future-proofed it! --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:16, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
Right turn icon.svg
The only problem is that the Spanish turn looks a bit different so I just made a turquoise OtBP right turn icon in a similar style to our current DotM and FTT logos. What do you think? --Ypsilon (talk) 09:10, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
I find that bright a color somewhat glary and unpleasant for my eyes. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:09, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
Holy ...., that's bright and hurts my eyes. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:16, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
Bear in mind it's only going to be this big Right turn icon.svg, it looks fine to me. I don't mind if you all want to start trying out different colours, but I'd be happy with the design as is.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:21, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
I was thinking whether we could have a yellow background like this one Australia road sign W9-3-R.svg. I've only seen this yellow background in the US and Australia, but to me, better than white. (I may be biased about this one, since I had one of these signs up in front of my old property in rural Australia) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:43, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
If you're going to have a road sign-style yellow symbol, then the Spanish original's simple right-turn looks cleaner than the Aussie one, which doesn't render very well at that size.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:03, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
I swear that's also found in the US as well. But I like the Spanish one better. (which is found in the US from what I know). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:13, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Weirdly, Ireland also uses that style of yellow diamond for their warning signs on roads. Spain definitely doesn't, though probably some of the Latin American countries do, hence Wikiviajes' choice.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:32, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Probably, considering that Spain isn't the country with the highest number of Espangol speakers. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:28, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
My point with the new design was to make it similar to the current DotM and FTT icons: both consist of a circle with something inside on a white background. The diamond-shaped road sign logo in its original form looks a bit out of place with the other icons having a similar design, so I modified it to look more like them. The color can easily be changed, for example to a more normal type of blue, I originally had in mind something like this but decided to make it a bit ostentatious for the fun of it :). --Ypsilon (talk) 13:47, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
Right turn icon blue.svg
How about a more "normal" blue version? --Ypsilon (talk) 11:40, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
Much more nicer. While I myself prefer a yellow background, it's too biased towards the Americas, Ireland and Australia and not on a global perspective. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:46, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
Also, it of course doesn't need to have a turn to the right in it. I first suggested the French question mark logo which was turned down, so if someone has some other suggestions for what to put in the middle of the circle, let's hear them, and it doesn't have to be blue... etc. --Ypsilon (talk) 12:02, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
The blue arrow also looks good so if it doesn't hurt anyone's eyes, I say we should go for that. We don't need to overthink this.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:14, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
The blue color looks like a substantial improvement to me and I would support making this the OTBP icon. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 22:35, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
If nobody opposes it , I think we could make the change. Someone good with templates could perhaps do it (SHB2000?). Ypsilon (talk) 17:22, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
@Ypsilon: not sure how to do it myself considering the high number of variables there, but maybe @Wauteurz: could. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:22, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
@SHB2000: Should just be a matter of changing Template:Pagebanner/styles.css with .oo-ui-icon-otbp on a new line. It won't let me though, and I believe that's down to the template only accepting images stored on (i.e., Commons), as (where our local images are stored) prompts an error claiming there's an "invalid or unsupported value". So, @Ypsilon: since you made the icon, would you be so kind to upload the icon to Commons so I can see whether that fixes it?
-- Wauteurz (talk) 10:24, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
@Wauteurz:, I've exported it to commons, but it won't let me publish the new icon for some weird overkill. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:31, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── I've made the change and I see no reason for why it shouldn't work. At the moment though, it isn't displaying the icon on my side yet. I suspect this might have something to do with parts of the site being loaded from cache memory, and it usually takes a little while to update if that's the case. If it doesn't end up working, there's always the weekend to check where things went wrong :)
-- Wauteurz (talk) 10:49, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

I just published a change to Norfolk Island and yet it's still showing the old icon. maybe something with the {{pagebanner}} template? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:53, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
Maybe the line | {{#if: {{{otbp|}}} | icon-otbp=Previously_Off_the_beaten_path }} needs to be changed? --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 11:00, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
It isn't {{Pagebanner}}, I know that much. Using both Norfolk Island and Simpelveld, I'm trying to trace back where it gets the old icon from, and it only leads me to Pagebanner/styles.css. It calls the old line that was replaced in my edit to that file, which still inserts .oo-ui-icon-dotm and .oo-ui-icon-otbp, meaning that a cached version of the CSS page would be the most likely culprit. The best remedy I know in this situation is just to wait it out. I'll see what the Spanish Wikivoyage does different if they do anything different at all. That might unearth something I'm missing, or it will just confirm my suspicion. What @SelfieCity: suggests is merely the mouse-over text, which appears near your mouse when you hold it over the icon for a second or two.
-- Wauteurz (talk) 11:06, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
I tried after 1 and a half hours later (from 21:12 AEST to 22:31), and still it still shows the old icon. I really dunno what to do with this, but I'm sure there's someone on Wikipedia that might know why. Cache isn't the culprit here, since I tried opening it on incognito mode on safari as well. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:33, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
I know from OSM that it can take days to update the cache. I think Wauteurz’ advice is good for now. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 13:32, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
That's also what I'm assuming applies here. OSM and Wikidata together can easily take a week to be visible. I doubt it'll be that much in this case. If it isn't simply taking a bit of time for everything to update slowly, then I honestly haven't a clue what the root cause would be. -- Wauteurz (talk) 13:50, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
I too still see the old icon, but thanks for proceeding with this. Ypsilon (talk) 19:55, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
been half a week. probably a similar issue to "Hjuston" on OSM. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 04:57, 18 July 2021 (UTC)
It's been two days. There is no need to be impatient. Sometimes things just take longer than you'd like them to. This isn't like an OSM issue though. Things like Houston displaying as Hjouston, or the IJsselmeer (Netherlands) suddenly being a polder on dynamic maps are to do with the export of OSM that we use here. It's more or less a snapshot of a certain moment than it is the same version as what you'd see if you were to open OSM in a new tab right now. In any case, compare this to shipping something across the world. It won't be there the next day, and if you're unlucky, it might well take two months to get to you, at which point you'll have forgotten you even ordered that thing in the first place. If it makes you happy though, I'd happily mirror the pagebanner into a sandbox and see if writing the CSS-stylesheet inline A) is possible and B) fixes anything. It takes out a man in the middle, which might help speed things up. It'll be tonight or tomorrow at the soonest that I can do that though.
-- Wauteurz (talk) 10:50, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Still nothing. This may come off as a stupid question, but isn't there some way to do this more locally (I mean the Spanish WV do have their own icons) in which case the change would happen faster/more directly. --Ypsilon (talk) 09:39, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

I don't think so, unless @Wauteurz: knows. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:46, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
I do not know of any, no. At this point, I'm starting to doubt my previous certainty about this working as well. I still don't see an alternative way in which the icon would be changed though. -- Wauteurz (talk) 12:04, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
:( --Ypsilon (talk) 13:53, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
): SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 05:25, 25 July 2021 (UTC)