Talk:Tourist trains
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Tequila Express (and others)
[edit]Where would the Mexican Tequila Express fit in? Or the Rocky Mountaineer, they most definitely fit the bill, but I am unsure as to which subheading applies for them. Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:29, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
- The Rocky Mountaineer is a sightseeing train. The w:Tequila Express could fit in any of multiple categories; as a food/beverage operation, I've listed it with the dinner trains for now. K7L (talk) 16:23, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks. There is also the Copper Canyon thingy in Mexico. Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:25, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
Dinner trains
[edit]- Dinner trains and dinner cruises. We have rail travel with some info on dining cars, but dinner cruises are usually tour boats on Gilligan's Island sized three-hour runs (longer trips are addressed at cruise ships, which are floating hotels with restaurants).
- Would the latter suite in Tour boats? I think the point of getting your dinner at sea is to view the landscape/sights, so including there would be natural. Are dinner trains local trains through landscape with sights? Are they common? I found no information on dinner cars in Rail travel, but such a section would be useful.
- Maybe we should deal with that under the heading of rail cruises? Hobbitschuster (talk) 01:27, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
- There is no such thing as a "rail cruise". While we have a page on heritage and tourist railways, the "cruise" terminology infers some other mode of transport, usually by sea. K7L (talk) 03:43, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
- Sure there is. While it isn't as big a phenomenon as bus tours or cruises on the ocean there are a bunch of companies that rent a train (usually in the upscale historic section such as original 1920s Orient Express rolling stock) and drive tourists around for a week or so, with several stops on the way. Those things exist in Europe and the Americas and are usually offered by private companies distinct from the usual railroads (though usually using their tracks and sometimes rolling stock, and thus distinct from heritage railways who often own both themselves) Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:19, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
- We have heritage and tourist railways already. K7L (talk) 16:07, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
- This is imho not the same thing. While a heritage or tourist railway runs along a small set of tracks that the company/association running the train usually own or de facto owns and they have an (at least theoretic) transport value, train cruises do pretty much the same thing a boat cruise does. Just on public rails that are in almost all cases usually used by freight or regular passenger trains. Take for example that one train in Canada. The railroads are used by both Via Rail and the Canadian Class I freight railroads and you book the cruise through a third company that owns/operates the train and takes you from A to B (and often back again) with any number of side trips, stops and the likes. Just like a boat cruise. Which heritage railway does that? I don't know how big this market is, but I know it exists. Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:30, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
- The company that does the Orient Express would in my definition be in the market of rail cruises not a heritage railway as the focus is more in getting around than the rolling stock. Maybe my definition is mistaken, but the German WP does know "Schienenkreuzfahrt" (= rail cruise) Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:38, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
- This is imho not the same thing. While a heritage or tourist railway runs along a small set of tracks that the company/association running the train usually own or de facto owns and they have an (at least theoretic) transport value, train cruises do pretty much the same thing a boat cruise does. Just on public rails that are in almost all cases usually used by freight or regular passenger trains. Take for example that one train in Canada. The railroads are used by both Via Rail and the Canadian Class I freight railroads and you book the cruise through a third company that owns/operates the train and takes you from A to B (and often back again) with any number of side trips, stops and the likes. Just like a boat cruise. Which heritage railway does that? I don't know how big this market is, but I know it exists. Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:30, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
- We have heritage and tourist railways already. K7L (talk) 16:07, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
- Sure there is. While it isn't as big a phenomenon as bus tours or cruises on the ocean there are a bunch of companies that rent a train (usually in the upscale historic section such as original 1920s Orient Express rolling stock) and drive tourists around for a week or so, with several stops on the way. Those things exist in Europe and the Americas and are usually offered by private companies distinct from the usual railroads (though usually using their tracks and sometimes rolling stock, and thus distinct from heritage railways who often own both themselves) Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:19, 10 May 2015 (UTC)
- There is no such thing as a "rail cruise". While we have a page on heritage and tourist railways, the "cruise" terminology infers some other mode of transport, usually by sea. K7L (talk) 03:43, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
- Maybe we should deal with that under the heading of rail cruises? Hobbitschuster (talk) 01:27, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
- Only one problem... that terminology (which you appear to be translating rather literally) exists only in German. This is the English WV. K7L (talk) 19:21, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
- Agreed. I've never heard of a "train cruise." In English, "cruise" by definition means a trip on water, unless we're using the originally gay definition of "cruising". Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:19, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
- I was unaware of the word "cruise" implying water. Probably because there is a late 1990s / early 2000s German slang term "cruisen" for driving around aimlessly in a car. (which would sound rather strange when colliding with the English slang meaning ;-) ). Still I do think there is a difference between a Schienenkreuzfahrt and a heritage railway, as outlined above. If rail cruise is not indeed a word, what would be the word for the topic? And do you agree that the topic as outlined by me needs to be treated separately from heritage railways? Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:44, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
- You actually can cruise around in your car in English, too. Yes, those two types of train travel should be treated differently. I don't know a single word or expression to describe what you're referring to, though. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:52, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
- How about rail excursion with a redirect from train cruise and rail cruise and an understand section that gives a little more definition of the term. As this is not WP we may indeed (within limits) "invent" a term where none seems handy, or am I mistaken? Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:52, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
- On en.WP, w:excursion train is a chartered train or extra train added for a special event (such as an election campaign or a major sporting event). w:Dinner train and w:heritage railway are what one'd expect they'd be, and w:tourist train merely redirects (which I don't agree with, as not every tourist train is a historically-acccurate heritage train). I'm inclined to identify all of the runs which exist as entertainment (tours, sightseeing, short/slow runs where serving a huge/fancy meal takes the entire length of the trip) instead of primarily as practical transport as "tourist trains", then treat the others as sections or subtopics of this main topic. K7L (talk) 18:34, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
- That's really clearly stated. I agree with your thinking. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:15, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
- That does indeed sound reasonable. Only one question: How do we reorganize the articles on the issue if at all? It just feels wrong for me to list a ten mile stretch that a steam train runs on in the same category as the company that drives around old Orient Express rolling stock for 10'000 $ a pop. Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:39, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
- Why? If you were walking 1 mile or 100 miles, wouldn't it still be an itinerary? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:49, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
- Because we don't cover either issue all that well as of now. And they are more than only quantitatively different imho. And after all, quantity has a quality all its own. Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:58, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
- Why? If you were walking 1 mile or 100 miles, wouldn't it still be an itinerary? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:49, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
- That does indeed sound reasonable. Only one question: How do we reorganize the articles on the issue if at all? It just feels wrong for me to list a ten mile stretch that a steam train runs on in the same category as the company that drives around old Orient Express rolling stock for 10'000 $ a pop. Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:39, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
- That's really clearly stated. I agree with your thinking. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:15, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
- On en.WP, w:excursion train is a chartered train or extra train added for a special event (such as an election campaign or a major sporting event). w:Dinner train and w:heritage railway are what one'd expect they'd be, and w:tourist train merely redirects (which I don't agree with, as not every tourist train is a historically-acccurate heritage train). I'm inclined to identify all of the runs which exist as entertainment (tours, sightseeing, short/slow runs where serving a huge/fancy meal takes the entire length of the trip) instead of primarily as practical transport as "tourist trains", then treat the others as sections or subtopics of this main topic. K7L (talk) 18:34, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
- How about rail excursion with a redirect from train cruise and rail cruise and an understand section that gives a little more definition of the term. As this is not WP we may indeed (within limits) "invent" a term where none seems handy, or am I mistaken? Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:52, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
- You actually can cruise around in your car in English, too. Yes, those two types of train travel should be treated differently. I don't know a single word or expression to describe what you're referring to, though. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:52, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
- I was unaware of the word "cruise" implying water. Probably because there is a late 1990s / early 2000s German slang term "cruisen" for driving around aimlessly in a car. (which would sound rather strange when colliding with the English slang meaning ;-) ). Still I do think there is a difference between a Schienenkreuzfahrt and a heritage railway, as outlined above. If rail cruise is not indeed a word, what would be the word for the topic? And do you agree that the topic as outlined by me needs to be treated separately from heritage railways? Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:44, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
- Agreed. I've never heard of a "train cruise." In English, "cruise" by definition means a trip on water, unless we're using the originally gay definition of "cruising". Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:19, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
status
[edit]What's missing to get this to be a "usable topic"? Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:39, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
Just a list
[edit]Is this article any more than a list of tourist trains - of which there must be thousands worldwide, that we could not hope to enumerate? --Inas (talk) 11:16, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
- Well it used to be smoshed together with heritage railways which I think is a different beast and maybe therefore the definition is a bit more in detail to make clear where the line between the two is to be drawn... Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:01, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
- Different, but that article is a list as well. And we can't hope to list all of them, and the criteria for inclusion is unclear. --Inas (talk) 00:17, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
- What's your proposal? Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:11, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
- If we agree it's a list - then we get remove the list part for a start. Then we expand the prose, refer to local guides, and perhaps make incorporate some of truly global significance. --Inas (talk) 07:55, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
- What's your proposal? Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:11, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
- Different, but that article is a list as well. And we can't hope to list all of them, and the criteria for inclusion is unclear. --Inas (talk) 00:17, 5 May 2018 (UTC)
Historic and museum trains
[edit]There is now a list on "historic and museum trains", with a {{see also}} linking Heritage railways.
What is the difference in scope between "historic and museum trains" and the heritage railways article? Should the see also rather be {{main}}? If so, do we need a list at all? Or should be choose 7±2 to highlight by listing also here? (see also #Just a list above)
If we keep the list, do we have any criteria? I suppose a selection of trains of different types (as regards the original railway, rolling stock and present deployment), each well described in a linked article, could make sense.
–LPfi (talk) 06:56, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
- Heritage railways have genuine heritage. Tourist trains are tacky modern day stuff. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:14, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
- @Hobbitschuster: Yes. But don't "historic and museum trains" have heritage? –LPfi (talk) 21:05, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
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[edit]Title. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:36, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
