Talk:Hinduism

Usable?

Is this guide Usable? If not, what should be done to improve it to Usable status? Also, any ideas on how to make it a Guide would be welcome. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:33, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

A mention to the three major sects, Shaivism, Vaishnavism and Shaktism w:en:Hindu denominations? More Hindu festivals? --Gobbler (talk) 06:50, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with these, so if you know about them, please write something. Thanks for the links. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:14, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Discussing Hindu sects get quite complicated. There are many ways to classify the religion. Apart from the threefold classification above, there are the six philosophical schools and further subschools like Advaita and Dvaita, other sects that don't fit neatly like the esoteric Tantra, and other divisions like Sanatana Dharma vs Arya Samaj/other neo-schools of Hinduism which arose from modern gurus and swamis like the Hare Krishnas, Swaminarayan, Brahmo Samaj, Sai Baba, etc. There is also "Folk Hinduism" and tribal/animist-Hindu hybrid beliefs found in indigenous tribal areas.

Sects only deserve a brief mention IMO because it's not very relevant for the traveller. And there hasn't been anywhere near the tension and violence between sects compared to the other major religions like Christianity and Islam (this fact could probably be mentioned though).

What's more important for the traveller is what they will see and experience when they visit a Hindu area. The culture more than the philosophy and technicalities. The rituals like pooja, cremation, the devotional bhajan music similar to hymns, the clothes and objects worn by Hindus of different castes and roles (e.g. orange robes worn by wandering Sadhus, the red tilak dot on the foreheads of devotees), the namaste greeting, holy plants (we already have animals) and the Hindu wedding ceremony. There must be more stuff but I can't remember it off the top of my head. :P

Apart from culture, we could briefly talk about the animal sacrifice practiced by the small minority (1-2%-ish) by Hindus, mainly in the Himalayan area. Not sure if it should go in Eat, Stay safe, or Cope. I think we can expand the destinations a lot. Probably split India into many parts, and even add a "Rest of the World" section for notable temples in place where Hindus have migrated to in modern times. A few more festivals and performances can be included too. The different ways different places celebrates the same festival can be added to make the article almost complete. Gizza ^(t)(c) 05:28, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

I'd say go ahead and add what you think best. If the article gets too long, we may be able to spin parts of it off or edit it down. If you're afraid it might get so long that someone will take huge chunks out of it, try editing it first of all in your userspace and solicit comments before transferring the edited version here. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:26, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

Jesus as an Avatar of Vishnu

Previously, it was mentioned in the article that Hindus considered Jesus Christ to be an avatar of Vishnu. As far as I know, that's only a minority view, so I removed it from the article. As for Buddha being an avatar of Vishnu, I have left it in as it is quite widely accepted that Buddha is the ninth avatar of Vishnu (except some southern sects, who substitute Buddha with Balarama, Krishna's brother). So what does everybody think about mentioning Jesus Christ as an avatar of Vishnu? While there may be some people who believe that, it is clearly quite a small minority, but then again, Hinduism is such a diverse religion that the boundary between what is and isn't considered mainstream Hinduism is kind of vague and really hard to define. Please let everyone know what your thoughts on this are, and let us come to a consensus on this. The dog2 (talk) 18:01, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Also see User talk:207.181.219.50#Hinduism article for more context. If only a small minority hold this belief, then if we mention it, we should also clearly state that it's a minority view. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:39, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

More definitions of things to see?

I think that at least gopuram needs a definition. Anything else? And where do you think would be the best place (presumably somewhere in "Understand") to put this information? Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:49, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

Done, at least as regards gopuram. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:13, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

"Festivals" section

It's currently alphabetized by the name of the festival. Should it be reorganized so that the universal or near-universal festivals such as Diwali are on top, and then the regional ones are lower? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:23, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

That would be a better option. Some of the festivals listed are very local, only popular in one state. To be honest there would be another 20-30 festivals of equal importance to those ones. A few big festivals are also missing right now, including Krishna and Rama's birthdays, Dussehra and Ganesh Chaturthi. Dussehra and Ganesh Chaturthi in particular are not private events but celebrated in huge public gatherings and are accessible to the traveller. Gizza ^(roam) 01:14, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Please add the missing major festivals and, less urgently, the 20-30 other interesting local ones.

Are the current "National" listings accurate? I should say, though, I don't like that heading, because national where? Presumably, India. And then what of Hindus in Nepal, Bali, etc.? Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:08, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Yeah it's not a good choice of words. I'll think of something better. I think Navratri may not quite be national but the others are. Maybe "major" is better? With an explanation that they are celebrated or least recognized by a majority of Hindus. w:Public_holidays_in_India#Hindu_holidays, w:Public holidays in Nepal, w:Public holidays in Sri Lanka, etc. give a good idea of how widespread the festival is. Gizza ^(roam) 08:52, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Excellent. Thank you for taking care of this. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:29, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Statue of Mangal Mahadev.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:50, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Needs to be locally uploaded. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 09:23, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Agreed. Important in the context of the article. I'll try to remember to get to this later. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:10, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Done. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:39, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

To guide

This article presents a lot of information. What more is needed for this to be at guide-level and eligible for a feature? Should more temples and ghats be mentioned? Some countries with large Hindu populations don't have any temples mentioned. Is that an issue? Also, should the descriptions make clear which listed temples are modern and which are ancient? Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:17, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Surely there's more than just three important Hindu temples and sites in Indonesia and Malaysia, especially when there's three in Singapore, a country that's a fraction of the size of Indonesia or Malaysia. Unfortunately, I don't know any other sites in SE Asia, but if there aren't any other important sites, I can understand though. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:23, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

It depends what you mean by "important." The ones listed for Malaysia are really big, definitely notable ones. However, I remember an interesting one in the karst caves that used to be outside of Ipoh and may be within Ipoh now. I don't know where else there are major temples in Malaysia. There's no possible way we can list even all the important Hindu temples around the world; there are way too many to even try. I feel like we should list absolutely the essential ones in India, based on their roles as places of pilgrimage, history, outstanding beauty, and great events, with some thought also being given to covering the most beloved gods and goddesses. In most other countries with large populations of Hindus from the Indian diaspora and local converts, we should select the most interesting more or less modern (19th-century and later) temples people visiting those countries might want to see. In countries outside of India with long histories of Hinduism, even if there aren't many remaining adherents there today, of course we need to cover the most beautiful, interesting and extensive temples. You're right that there are more in Indonesia. I recall that there are ancient temple complexes in East Java and IIRC, not far from Palembang in Sumatra and one further north. Unfortunately, the Malays were iconoclasts after Islam was adopted, so the only ancient Hindu relics are I believe still in the process of being unearthed in Kedah and/or Perak and might not be visitable yet. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:36, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Chongkian, do you know where there are particularly important, interesting or beautiful temples in Malaysia other than the ones mentioned already? Anything notable in Johor, Melaka, Negeri Sembilan, Perak, etc.? Othello95, Veracious, Azmi1995 and Hanif Al Husaini, would you like to add more listings for Indonesia? Jpatokal, you seem to be familiar with the region. Any thoughts? The dog2? JarrahTree? 2006nishan178713, Ravikiran r, Roovinn, Rangan Datta Wiki, DaGizza, Haoreima, Prof tpms, any you'd like to add for India? Sorry if I'm forgetting anyone active. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:51, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

There are some big holes when it comes to destinations in India. At the moment, there are no listings in Maharashtra, India's second most populous and third largest state by area (well known for its Ganesha temples). Apart from destinations, most of the comments I made in May 2015 above still seem to apply. In addition to what I said back then, some other gaps include no real mention of the Bhagavad Gita any (the text most equivalent to the Bible and Quran) and a weak coverage of cultural and ritualistic aspects of Hinduism. There is some information on dance and performances but it is far from adequate, and there is nothing on e.g. painting and sculpture. There are also many big festivals missing, particularly ones where non-Hindu tourists and travellers can experience and get involved in, like wikipedia:Dahi Handi. I will try to address some of these gaps when I get the time. Gizza ^(roam) 00:56, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Mount Bromo, home to Indonesia's Tenggerese Hindu community and some spectacular volcanoes, might be worth a mention. Jpatokal (talk) 12:05, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Will add to it later
- Azmi1995 (talk) 17:19, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Great! Thanks, guys. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:25, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Will be covered many things in Bali and Java. But, as @daGizza: said in profile: uneven coverage between european and asian world.

so many red links in wikivoyage and I have to link it to wikipedia and it made the link became light blue and not dark blue Azmi1995 (talk) 01:17, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Summoning some Balinese user : @Joseagush,@Kadek Ayu Sulastri,@Anggabuana,@Siti Noviali . Veracious (talk) 03:07, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

DaGizza, you make a good point about rituals being insufficiently covered. I think it'll also be a good idea to give people some idea of what to expect at, for example, a Hindu wedding, keeping in mind the huge variation. I've been to two Hindu weddings, and they were not very similar to Christian or Jewish weddings, but the Muslim weddings I went to in Malaysia in the 70s maintained some aspects of Hindu customs. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:55, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

I'm not aware of any surviving Malay Hindu temples. To my knowledge, all Malays are required by law to be Muslims in Malaysia and Brunei. In Singapore, there is no such requirement, and I had a Malay Christian neighbour when I was really young (though he was raised Muslim, but converted to Christianity as an adult to marry his Chinese Christian wife), but I have yet to meet a Malay Hindu. As such, Hinduism in Malaysia and Singapore is generally associated with the Indian community, who were mostly brought over by the British as indentured labourers, soldiers and policemen during colonial times. That said, a Malay version of the Ramayana does survive and is still studied by people who specialise in Malay literature, albeit with many of the Hindu religious elements removed; it's called Hikayat Seri Rama. The dog2 (talk) 15:14, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Speaking of rituals, perhaps someone knowledgeable can explain the significance of the lingam in the worship of Shiva. The dog2 (talk) 15:23, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

As I said, the Malays were iconoclasts. All existing Hindu temples in Malaya were destroyed after the Malays embraced Islam. However, I'm pretty such there is still ongoing archeological work to restore buried remnants of pre-Islamic, heavily Indian-influenced Malay kingdoms. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:55, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

If I'm not wrong, the Malacca Sultanate was founded as a Hindu kingdom before converting to Islam. I don't think there's anything in Malacca connected to Parameswara's Hindu roots that we can list here, but the chief of Malacca's navy was known as the Laksamana, whose title was most certainly derived from Lakshmana, Rama's brother and one of the heroes of the Ramayana. The dog2 (talk) 18:13, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

It absolutely was. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:31, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Not iconoclasts, more like they are taking one of the Ten Commandments very seriously, just like what prophet Muhammad did back then. Can't blame them. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Veracious (talk) 04:55, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

No, in Malaysia, they were specifically iconoclasts, in that they destroyed Hindu temples. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:44, 16 June 2022 (UTC)