User talk:Riawww

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Hello, Riawww! Welcome to Wikivoyage.

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Riau Malay

Thank you for creating the Riau Malay phrasebook. Although it is good, it hasn't yet met the requirements for being a guide article, see Wikivoyage:Phrasebook status. It is missing "phrase in the target language will be accompanied by a phonetic approximation of the pronunciation" and it doesn't have a custom page-banner. AlasdairW (talk) 20:49, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Riawww, please discuss your edits on Talk:Riau Malay phrasebook before edit warring. Otherwise, I might have to partially block your editing privileges if you continue. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 10:51, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

@SHB2000: I'm not edit warring. The information should be written as what it is since the Malay phrasebook have been heavily vandalized and emphasized more on Malaysian Malay. The Malaysians assumed as if Malay was originally from Malaysia, while in fact, historically speaking, Malay originated from Sumatra before it was diverged as "Malaysian Malay" in 1970s. So, I beg to differ. Each respective phrasebook should be well-informed about its background information as well. Riawww (talk) 10:58, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure if you understand what "vandalism" means, because removing information with a valid reason that also had an entire discussion behind it is not. Again, I invite you to participate in Talk:Riau Malay phrasebook#"Most original" claim, but if you keep POV-pushing by edit warring (and yes, you are edit warring), then the door will be swiftly shown to you. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 11:04, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

@SHB2000: And adding information is part of the effort to expand these phrasebook, I have clearly read any Terms of Use of these platform and I'm glad if I could contribute here. Thus being said, I didn't engage in any edit-warring nor POV-pushing actions, my edits are backed with proven evidences both in ancient and academic studies. If only these phrasebook allowed to input references, I would definitely love to input it. But one have to put full consideration of history acknowledgement, because the one who actually did 'edit-warring' is the one who have zero idea about these language history.

Also, since I think these linguistic dispute will not come to an end, I have suggestion to delete the Malay phrasebook, and let's break it into respective countries, so it wouldn't be full of bias. Because personally I think the Malay phrasebook is so biased and full of Malaysians nationalism and emphasized more on Malaysian Malay, they act like they owned the language and they thought they are the ultimate learning source for Malay, while in fact, it is not. So I guess it is better to delete the Malay phrasebokk and split it into Brunei Malay, Malaysian Malay, and Singapore Malay, since these respective regions shared differences. And of course, I would love to voluntarily help to expand each respective articles if needed, since I have enough knowledge, experiences, and sources on the respective dialects. Riawww (talk) 11:13, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

How about listing your proposal on Talk:Malay phrasebook, then? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 13:27, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Your accusation of nationalism is absurd and is likely to strike readers as projection. I did a lot of work on the Malay phrasebook, and I'm an American. Furthermore, the idea that there is one Malay dialect in Malaysia - don't you know better than that? What is more mutually intelligible, Malay and Indonesian or Selangor Malay and Bahasa Kelantan? As for history, the text of w:History of the Malay language does not back up your claim that Malay comes from Sumatra: "The oldest uncontroversial specimens of Old Malay are the 7th century CE Sojomerto inscription from Central Java, Kedukan Bukit Inscription from South Sumatra, Indonesia and several other inscriptions dating from the 7th to 10th centuries discovered in Sumatra, Java, Indonesia other islands of the Sunda archipelago, as well as Luzon, Philippines. All these Old Malay inscriptions used either scripts of Indian origin such as Pallava, Nagari or the Indian-influenced old Sumatran characters.[...]It is popularly claimed that the Old Malay of the Srivijayan inscriptions from South Sumatra, Indonesia, is the ancestor of the Classical Malay. However, as noted by some linguists, the precise relationship between these two, whether ancestral or not, is problematic and remains uncertain." Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:12, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

The notion of deleting the Malay phrasebook strikes me, as an outsider, as absurd. It may need some changes, but the article must exist.

I don't think we actually need the Riau Malay phrasebook, though I would not advocate deleting it. The traveller does not want to worry about dialect differences, let alone their history. Besides, one article calls Riau Indonesian a simplified language. How many speak it and what proportion of them also speak standard Malay or Indonesian? Pashley (talk) 14:16, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Riawww, you are claiming that Riau Malay is the "ancestor of all modern varieties of Malay used in former Greater Indonesia region." First of all, there was never any such thing as the "Greater Indonesia region," except in the minds of imperialists like Sukarno who tried to grab Malaysia and Singapore by force in the Confrontation, and second, modern Riau Malay cannot be the ancestor of anything. I will copy this remark to the talk page of the phrasebook, which you have studiously ignored. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:21, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

@Ikan Kekek I think what he means by "Greater Indonesia region" is derived from the territory of Majapahit Empire.

@Riawww Dude, stop your act of hatred, seriously. Just admit it, Malaysia is the ultimate learning source for modern varieties of Malay. Learning history is good, but don't be trapped in the past.

Veracious (talk) 06:41, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

There was no such thing as Indonesia (nor Malaysia) in those days. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:04, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

@Ikan Kekek Yup, that's why i told him: "don't be trapped in the past" . Veracious (talk) 07:50, 1 May 2023 (UTC)