User talk:Hmeil.me
Latest comment: 1 month ago by Ground Zero in topic Expanding pages
Welcome![edit]
Hello, Hmeil.me! Welcome to Wikivoyage.
To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page. If you need help, check out Help, or post a message in the travellers' pub. New users are also welcome to post any questions or concerns to the arrivals lounge. If you want some practice editing, please do so on our graffiti wall. If you are familiar with Wikipedia, take a look over some of the differences here. If you want to contribute with information about the place where you live, see Wikivoyage:Welcome, locals. Alextejthompson (Ping me or leave a message on my talk page) 13:20, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
- Hi
- Could you please give a look to the following talk and forward it to all the administrators/moderators of this site?
- https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/User_talk:Hmeil.me#Votes_for_deletion_thread
- Best regards Hmeil.me (talk) 16:38, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
Votes for deletion thread[edit]
Thanks for starting an article, but cities don't get districted unilaterally on this site, so I nominated it for deletion. Please participate at Wikivoyage:Votes for deletion#Athens/South Suburbs. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:03, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- ΟΚ! But Varympompi is not in the city of Athens, however the camping mentioned in the page is in Varympompi. How to you suggest the suburbs of Athens should be mentioned? There is a distinction between Athens centre and Athens city. Hmeil.me (talk) 03:37, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- You might wanted to check out this page from the greek version: https://el.wikivoyage.org/wiki/%CE%91%CE%B8%CE%AE%CE%BD%CE%B1
- Here the city of Athens mentions 7 districts including South Suburbs, North Suburbs and so on. Hmeil.me (talk) 03:39, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- Read here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athens#Athens_metropolitan_area
- Southern Suburbs Hmeil.me Hmeil.me (talk) 04:33, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- The suburbs are all in Attica, right? But if you want to create an article about a suburb, it needs to have content, and the place needs to fulfill the criteria at Wikivoyage:What is an article. Sometimes, suburbs are actually best covered in city articles. If you're not sure, start a thread on Talk:Attica and be prepared to state approximately how many listings each article would have. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:35, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- You've also created a bunch of blank city articles that have to be deleted unless there is a substantial amount of content you plan to add to them. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:42, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- I am not going to write the whole el.wikipedia.org by myself, am I? This is for collaborative work, isn't it? So I created the skeletons and in time me and other volunteers, may work on them. Hmeil.me (talk) 05:36, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- not the whole en.wikivoyage.org Hmeil.me (talk) 05:37, 7 March 2024 (UTC)you
- Hey boss! May I put the 55 suburbs of Athens in the page of Attica? Hmeil.me (talk) 06:17, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- No; not every suburb is of interest for travellers. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 11:45, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- Alright! However the suburbs of south Athens, are all by the sea, the so called Athens' Riviera. The travelers never heard of the Attica Riviera, have they? And another thing:this is the image of the public transport of Athens (not Attica) https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/File:Public_transport_map_of_Athens.png, taken from the page https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Athens, and it shows the 55 suburbs (municipalilties aka demes) of Athens. So we have Athens and Athens metropolitan area which is the deme called Athens (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deme). Not to mention that the page https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Athens, drives travelers to other places outside the metropolitan area of Athens, like in Kifisia, for shopping, which is a suburb (a deme aka municipality), in the north side of Athens. I rest my case. Hmeil.me (talk) 15:00, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- Also, because you said "No; not every suburb is of interest for travellers.", I have a question for you personally. Do you speak on behalf of all travelers? If not, show me the rule which supports your opinion. Hmeil.me (talk) 15:03, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- Would you say the same for https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Berlin?
- for https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/London? for https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Paris? These pages contain Districts. May I divide Athens in Districts or you will come in the way on behalf of the travelers? Hmeil.me (talk) 15:10, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- I keep saying the same thing to you: Districting is not done unilaterally on Wikivoyage. If you believe it is in the interest of travelers to divide Athens into districts because otherwise, the Athens article will be overwhelmingly long, you need to start a thread on Talk:Athens with a proposal. The proposal needs to include boundaries for all the districts and state approximately how many listings you expect to put in each district article. Do you understand? Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:24, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- I will ask you once more: I will divide Athens in its well known Districts (well known to travelers who are not using wikivoyage just, and to tour operators around the globe), in the same way as Berlin, Paris, London. Will you come all by your self to erase my effort and then speak your irrelevant personal opinions? Hmeil.me (talk) 15:27, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- You said: The proposal needs to include boundaries for all the districts and state approximately how many listings you expect to put in each district article. Do you understand?
- Go say it to the pages of Berlin, Paris and London. Erase their work (work which doesn't come from one person only) and give them the same excuse. Hmeil.me (talk) 15:29, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- All those cities were districted by consensus, after just such proposals were made. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:28, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- Read Wikivoyage:Geographical hierarchy, concentrating on the Wikivoyage:Geographical hierarchy#Districts and Wikivoyage:Geographical hierarchy#Districts in cities sections. You need to read the links people give you and stop just saying whatever you want that's based on not reading them. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:33, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- All those cities were districted by consensus, after just such proposals were made. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:28, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- I will ask you once more: I will divide Athens in its well known Districts (well known to travelers who are not using wikivoyage just, and to tour operators around the globe), in the same way as Berlin, Paris, London. Will you come all by your self to erase my effort and then speak your irrelevant personal opinions? Hmeil.me (talk) 15:27, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- I keep saying the same thing to you: Districting is not done unilaterally on Wikivoyage. If you believe it is in the interest of travelers to divide Athens into districts because otherwise, the Athens article will be overwhelmingly long, you need to start a thread on Talk:Athens with a proposal. The proposal needs to include boundaries for all the districts and state approximately how many listings you expect to put in each district article. Do you understand? Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:24, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- Do you also speak on behalf of Wikivoyage consensus? --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 20:40, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- Also, because you said "No; not every suburb is of interest for travellers.", I have a question for you personally. Do you speak on behalf of all travelers? If not, show me the rule which supports your opinion. Hmeil.me (talk) 15:03, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- Alright! However the suburbs of south Athens, are all by the sea, the so called Athens' Riviera. The travelers never heard of the Attica Riviera, have they? And another thing:this is the image of the public transport of Athens (not Attica) https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/File:Public_transport_map_of_Athens.png, taken from the page https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Athens, and it shows the 55 suburbs (municipalilties aka demes) of Athens. So we have Athens and Athens metropolitan area which is the deme called Athens (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deme). Not to mention that the page https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Athens, drives travelers to other places outside the metropolitan area of Athens, like in Kifisia, for shopping, which is a suburb (a deme aka municipality), in the north side of Athens. I rest my case. Hmeil.me (talk) 15:00, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- No; not every suburb is of interest for travellers. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 11:45, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hey boss! May I put the 55 suburbs of Athens in the page of Attica? Hmeil.me (talk) 06:17, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- not the whole en.wikivoyage.org Hmeil.me (talk) 05:37, 7 March 2024 (UTC)you
- I am not going to write the whole el.wikipedia.org by myself, am I? This is for collaborative work, isn't it? So I created the skeletons and in time me and other volunteers, may work on them. Hmeil.me (talk) 05:36, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- You've also created a bunch of blank city articles that have to be deleted unless there is a substantial amount of content you plan to add to them. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:42, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- The suburbs are all in Attica, right? But if you want to create an article about a suburb, it needs to have content, and the place needs to fulfill the criteria at Wikivoyage:What is an article. Sometimes, suburbs are actually best covered in city articles. If you're not sure, start a thread on Talk:Attica and be prepared to state approximately how many listings each article would have. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:35, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
Blocked[edit]
- your tone is full of sarcasm and disrespect and contempt for consensus, totally unnecessary and contrary to the vibes of this travel guide. Chill out a little and meditate about "collaboration and not competition". Ibaman (talk) 15:37, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- You are completely out of any code of conduct and you also reverted the page of my home town Palaio Faliro. Where can I report you? Hmeil.me (talk) 15:49, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- I think you are being involved in targeted harassment. Where can I report you? Hmeil.me (talk) 15:50, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- Any administrator here to see my note and the conversation and respond by moderating https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/User:Ibaman ? This user's actions against my efforts are very authoritarian indeed. Also the user fails to justify his opposition by presenting matters of fact. Hmeil.me (talk) 15:56, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- A very revengeful person indeed. Erasing all my effort including my home town Palaio Faliro which redirects to another place. Some administrator to resolve this issue with https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/User:Ibaman Hmeil.me (talk) 15:58, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- This person https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/User:Ibaman nominated for deletion all the pages I created including this https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Dodoni
- What this person does is deleting my content and nominating the pages for https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Dodoni. Plus blocking my IP. This is plain harassment, as the person doesn't presents logical justifications based on matters of fact. Hmeil.me (talk) 16:03, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- Is there any really objective administrator in en.wikivoyage.org, or the whole site belongs to abuser https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/User:Ibaman ? Hmeil.me (talk) 16:05, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- A very revengeful person indeed. Erasing all my effort including my home town Palaio Faliro which redirects to another place. Some administrator to resolve this issue with https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/User:Ibaman Hmeil.me (talk) 15:58, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- Any administrator here to see my note and the conversation and respond by moderating https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/User:Ibaman ? This user's actions against my efforts are very authoritarian indeed. Also the user fails to justify his opposition by presenting matters of fact. Hmeil.me (talk) 15:56, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- I think you are being involved in targeted harassment. Where can I report you? Hmeil.me (talk) 15:50, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- You are completely out of any code of conduct and you also reverted the page of my home town Palaio Faliro. Where can I report you? Hmeil.me (talk) 15:49, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- Wikivoyage is a collaborative online travel guide. We admins care very much for this harmonious environment, about the enforcement of Wikivoyage policy, and don't suffer disruptive behaviour lightly. Your objections have been duly noted. Thanks for contributing to Wikivoyage. Ibaman (talk) 16:12, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- You should note that I am not unilaterally deleting any of the contentless articles you started but nominated them for deletion, where a consensus will determine their fates. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:26, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- You don't present matters of fact. You are subjective. You delete first and then you don't explain things by the book e.g. why the pages of Berlin, Paris, London include Districts. You also changed the content of the page for Dodoni village without explanation. You redirected my home town Palaio Faliro to another place. I think en.wikivoyage.org belongs to you and/or your clique, a thing which is far away from the idea of volunteering and collaboration between people. You acted like the boss of this web site, without any justification coming from a written guide. I will report you to all the administrators, and then I will conclude with my decision about how you run, moderate and administrate this site. Hmeil.me (talk) 16:33, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- You'd better check Wikivoyage:Administrators first, so you know who is an administrator. I think the redirection of Palaio Faliro should be discussed, but your points about districted cities ignore everything I've told you and all the links you've been given. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:38, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- When your 3-day suspension is finished, I invite you to answer the question I've asked at Talk:Palaio Faliro. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:41, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- You are ultra authoritarian without justification based on facts. And I will forward our conversation with your deeds to the community if you don't remove the ban and justify your reasoning with logical arguments, by answering my questions about Berlin, Paris and London, above. Hmeil.me (talk) 16:44, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- "Ultra authoritarian" is a bit rich coming from you. You owe Ikan an apology. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 20:41, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- You are ultra authoritarian without justification based on facts. And I will forward our conversation with your deeds to the community if you don't remove the ban and justify your reasoning with logical arguments, by answering my questions about Berlin, Paris and London, above. Hmeil.me (talk) 16:44, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- I have already and I know you are one of them. So if you all work the way you do, then this site belongs to you and the clique you belong and therefore it is completely away from the idea of open collaboration. So I want bother in contributing anymore and I will let you write your mambo jumbo. Hmeil.me (talk) 16:41, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- It belongs to a consensus, not to you unilaterally doing whatever you want and pretending everyone is oppressing you. Wikis are collaborative. If you don't want to collaborate, start your own site. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:43, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- A consensus between you and your colleagues? Explain to me what is the difference of Berlin, Paris, London, from Athens and why you reverted Palaio Faliro and Dodoni. Hmeil.me (talk) 16:45, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- It belongs to a consensus, not to you unilaterally doing whatever you want and pretending everyone is oppressing you. Wikis are collaborative. If you don't want to collaborate, start your own site. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:43, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- When your 3-day suspension is finished, I invite you to answer the question I've asked at Talk:Palaio Faliro. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:41, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- You'd better check Wikivoyage:Administrators first, so you know who is an administrator. I think the redirection of Palaio Faliro should be discussed, but your points about districted cities ignore everything I've told you and all the links you've been given. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:38, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- You don't present matters of fact. You are subjective. You delete first and then you don't explain things by the book e.g. why the pages of Berlin, Paris, London include Districts. You also changed the content of the page for Dodoni village without explanation. You redirected my home town Palaio Faliro to another place. I think en.wikivoyage.org belongs to you and/or your clique, a thing which is far away from the idea of volunteering and collaboration between people. You acted like the boss of this web site, without any justification coming from a written guide. I will report you to all the administrators, and then I will conclude with my decision about how you run, moderate and administrate this site. Hmeil.me (talk) 16:33, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- You should note that I am not unilaterally deleting any of the contentless articles you started but nominated them for deletion, where a consensus will determine their fates. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:26, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- have a look at Talk:London/Districts to see how this type of thing is done here. If you want to create your own online travel guide, write whatever you want for as long as you want, and never discuss anything, please feel free to do so. Ibaman (talk) 16:44, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- You didn't answer my question. London, Berlin and Paris include Districts despite the talk you are showing me now. Plus you didn't talk. You just acted by deleting, reverting. Hmeil.me (talk) 16:47, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- the matter was DISCUSSED and CONSENSUS WAS ACHIEVED about when and how to districtify these cities. DISTRICTIFICATION IN WIKIVOYAGE ONLY HAPPENS THROUGH DISCUSSION AND CONSENSUS, NOT UNITERALLY. I hope this answer is clear enogh for you. Ibaman (talk) 16:58, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- My final question to you, is how many people are actively involved as administrators/moderators in en.wikivoyage.org? Hmeil.me (talk) 16:48, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- Have you ever looked at any of the links we've given you? You can easily find the answer to that question by following the last link I gave you. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:51, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- You said "We". Who are you (plural)? How many of you are administering/mderating en.wikivoyage.org?
- Have you already forgotten how you started deleting my content without a word? Put the sentence which justifies your reasoning, from the link you just gave, or I cannot take you seriously and I remain with my opinion that you have make this useful project, your private "playground", i.e. you have "hijacked" it. Because I haven't had your problem in el.wikivoyage.org, from where I am translating in English, as a volunteer, to show my country to travelers. Hmeil.me (talk) 16:58, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- the matter with what you did and how you did it, is this page https://el.wikivoyage.org/wiki/%CE%A0%CE%B1%CE%BB%CE%B1%CE%B9%CF%8C_%CE%A6%CE%AC%CE%BB%CE%B7%CF%81%CE%BF redirects to a wrong place, when the traveler switches to English language Hmeil.me (talk) 17:52, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- To conclude Mr,..you must answer the following: a) on what grounds you deleted the page for /Athens/Palaio Faliro and you redirected it to another place. b) why you deleted the content from the page of Dodoni village and c) why the pages for Berlin, London, Paris and so on may contain Districts, while Athens should't.
- You will have to point to the exact sentences from the guidelines achieved by consensus (consensus by whom and how many people-contributors?), that justify your reasoning.
- Next time warn volunteers before you shoot them. ΟΚ Mr «Benito Mussolini»? Hmeil.me (talk) 19:41, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- I will admit, we WV admins are really high-strung and quick to act, there are too many touts, spammers and vandals around, you wouldn't believe how many identical cases, of people coming in wanting to change article structures and trample over discussed policy and style issues before reading about them, we have to deal with. If you were willing to talk about this in a civil manner, it would be great, but your aggressive tone is really unhelpful, unpleasant, and impossible to deal with, at this moment. Having said this, I see the matter has been dealt with, there is consensus that the article is valid, it's been restored and will stand. Chill out, take your time through the site and its policy articles to decide whether you can "take us seriously" and help build a travel guide, or not. Ibaman (talk) 20:26, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- Alright! I shall wait the lift of my ban and from now on, I shall be asking you first. And my first question is: Could I create a specific page in the English section, for my home town Palaio Faliro, which is a suburb of Athens? https://el.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Παλαιό_Φάληρο Hmeil.me (talk) 07:29, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
- The article was unredirected (i.e., restored); sorry you didn't understand. And it was because of a thread that I started, but of course I'm an "extreme authoritarian" or whatever the heck you said....Just because you're temporarily blocked doesn't mean you can't read the links we've been giving you or look around the site a bit... Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:29, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
- Alright! I shall wait the lift of my ban and from now on, I shall be asking you first. And my first question is: Could I create a specific page in the English section, for my home town Palaio Faliro, which is a suburb of Athens? https://el.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Παλαιό_Φάληρο Hmeil.me (talk) 07:29, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
- I will admit, we WV admins are really high-strung and quick to act, there are too many touts, spammers and vandals around, you wouldn't believe how many identical cases, of people coming in wanting to change article structures and trample over discussed policy and style issues before reading about them, we have to deal with. If you were willing to talk about this in a civil manner, it would be great, but your aggressive tone is really unhelpful, unpleasant, and impossible to deal with, at this moment. Having said this, I see the matter has been dealt with, there is consensus that the article is valid, it's been restored and will stand. Chill out, take your time through the site and its policy articles to decide whether you can "take us seriously" and help build a travel guide, or not. Ibaman (talk) 20:26, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- the matter with what you did and how you did it, is this page https://el.wikivoyage.org/wiki/%CE%A0%CE%B1%CE%BB%CE%B1%CE%B9%CF%8C_%CE%A6%CE%AC%CE%BB%CE%B7%CF%81%CE%BF redirects to a wrong place, when the traveler switches to English language Hmeil.me (talk) 17:52, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- Have you ever looked at any of the links we've given you? You can easily find the answer to that question by following the last link I gave you. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:51, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you all for contributing to Dodoni village! Much appreciated indeed! Hmeil.me (talk) 13:57, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
Hmeil, the article for Palaio Faliro is worth keeping because it provide information for travellers -- the listings that you provided. I have added some information from Wikipedia. None of the other articles you created are useful for travellers, though. When you click on a link to open an article, and you find no information at all, how do you react? You feel that your time has been wasted. We don't want Wikivoyage's readers to feel that way. If there is a link, the reader should get some information. Creating skeletons doesn't help readers, and it doesn't help Wikivoyage, so we don't let people create skeletons. If you, as someone who comes from this region, can't create a useful article, then it is unlikely that other contributors, who are not from this region, will be able to do so.
If you think that Wikivoyage should have articles for these places, then please add useful travel information to them -- how to get there, what to see and do, where to eat and drink, and where to sleep. Ground Zero (talk) 08:26, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hi! Alright! I will make on for Palaio Faliro suburb (my home town), which is by the sea and the tram line, from where travelers can go to all the other beaches of south Athens by the Saronic gulf. I will talk when it is ready so Ikan can inspect it and provide with further advice. Hmeil.me (talk) 10:45, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- and Ibaman Hmeil.me (talk) 10:47, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- Your block should expire in about 5 hours; thank you for taking the constructive route. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 10:49, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- and Ibaman Hmeil.me (talk) 10:47, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
Expanding pages[edit]
Hmeil, you can see from the discussion about your skelton articles that the Wikivoyage community doesn't want want to see a lot of empty articles being created, but we do support the creation of articles that provide useful information for travellers. You can make an article somewhat useful by adding listings, as you did on Dodoni, but you can make an article worth keeping by adding information from the corresponding English Wikipedia or Greek Wikipedia articles. You can use text from Wikipedia as long as you give credit either in your edit summary or on the article's talk page. If you started doing that on the other articles you created, the nominations for deletion would be withdrawn. I hope that helps you understand how Wikivoyage works a bit better. Ground Zero (talk) 18:27, 15 March 2024 (UTC)