User talk:Willthewanderer

Hello, Willthewanderer! Welcome to Wikivoyage.

To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page. If you need help, check out Help, or post a message in the travellers' pub. If you are familiar with Wikipedia, take a look over some of the differences here.

I appreciate the attitude you present on your user page and look forward to your edits.

All the best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:59, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

@Ikan Kekek: Thanks for the welcome Ikan, Hope I can be of service —The preceding comment was added by Willthewanderer (talk • contribs)

I'm sure you can be. (Parenthetically, on talk pages like this one, it's standard to "sign" one's posts by typing 4 tildes [~] in a row at the end of each message.) Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:41, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

I moved your question in the pub down to the bottom of the page, the normal place for new sections. I'll comment on it later if I can think of any answer beyond "just use your judgment." Pashley (talk) 11:50, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

@Pashley, Pashley: Thank you for moving my post to the right place, I'll remember that in future --41.143.48.216 13:06, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

In the pub you can always click "add topic" (next to "edit source") which will move the newly created topic into the right place automatically. Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:38, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Re your comments in the pub, I'm really looking forward to seeing your updates and edits on Bulgarian articles. It's high on my list of destinations. Have a great trip. Ground Zero (talk) 12:43, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

"Drink" for venues not serving alcohol

Swept in from the pub

I've noticed that a lot of pages, particularly those in Islamic countries have "drink" sections full of tea-houses, orange juice stalls etc. Basically anywhere that sells drinks.

Am I correct in the understanding that "eat" should be used for all food/drink listings; and that "drink" is reserved for licensed venues/bars/nightclubs?

If a town has no nightlife, licensed venues or off-licenses shouldn't the "drink" section simply be omitted? That way all city articles have the same format

I checked the templates page for guidance but it wasn't specific on the issue

--Willthewanderer (talk) 11:19, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

I think the 'Drink' section is largely used (and primarily intended for) for bars where alcohol is served, and probably reflects the Western biases of the original travel guides used here. I don't think there is an issue to list other kinds of drink, such as coffee and tea houses. Even in Amsterdam#Drink it goes the other direction and has venues with (legal) drugs but no alcohol. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 11:53, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

I interpret "Drink" as being the section for anyplace that is more about drinks than food. That includes bars that serve bar food (wine bars that place an equal emphasis on food and drink are a gray area), tea houses that also serve various kinds of savory and sweet food to accompany the gourmet teas, and coffee houses that also serve a few sandwiches and desserts. I would also include juice bars among the listings, if any are worthy of listing. My neighborhood, Manhattan/East Village, has become a major center not only of bars but also juice bars and tea houses; all worth listing should be listed in "Drink". Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:27, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

If a place is more about drinking (including coffee houses, juice bars etc.) than eating, I too put the establishment in Drink rather than in Eat. ϒpsilon (talk) 12:32, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

"Drink" is also the place where I would include concerns about tap water or advice on locally prevalent soft drinks Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:25, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

"That way all city articles have the same format" - why would you want that? The flexibility is part of the beauty of our system, IMO. What makes sense for one article may not make sense for another, and that's fine. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:02, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

It's quite apparent (if you delve into the original discussions) that the original intention here was 'Restaurants' -> 'Eat' and 'Nightlife' -> Drink. We can blame either the western bias, or the imperative bias for having Juice Bars in that section. --Inas (talk) 23:11, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Lots has changed since the original discussions. I don't see where the problem is in handling non-alcoholic drinks under "drink"... Hobbitschuster (talk) 07:18, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

No problem. It's just a little odd. If you look at any of the traditional guides (on which this one is modelled), you'd normally find food and drink in one section, and nightlife in another. Because in nine out of ten cases, the same places actually serve both food and associated drinks, milkshakes, coffee, juice, coke, etc. --Inas (talk) 11:04, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

A guide could be organized that way, but if you wanted to change this one to conform to that model, it would take so much unnecessary work that I can't see the point of it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:36, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

I was just more curious how so many editors use the section differently, I just want people reading the articles to know where to look for things.

But often if the "drink" section is used for drink-oriented places and article ends up with this huge list of WP:yawn places and the one or two nightlife venues get lost in that. Sometimes just having the "drink" section not empty would be tempting, but if there is actually no nightlife or maybe nobody has found any this is in fact a more valuable commentary --Willthewanderer (talk) 22:27, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Quite often, the only business peddling "drink" in a small town is also selling food or lodging; that would leave the section legitimately empty as we usually prefer to list a business only once. Nothing wrong with that, and it doesn't mean that there is truly nothing. K7L (talk) 00:03, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

I was wondering on how to use the drink section while reading/working on articles of places which are famous for specific non-alcoholic drinks. (e.g. tea or coffee). See for instance Vienna/Innere_Stadt#Drink which kind of makes sense as Vienna is famous for it's café culture. And in this case it's also really clear, as it has 'café', 'bars' and 'nightlife' sections. But of course it's not very clear, as the cafés are also known for their desserts, so this whole section might also go into 'eat'. I've seen the same done in other articles, such as the tea section in Singapore/Chinatown#Drink, however here I don't think this would fit into the 'eat' section as this is obviously centred on the drink and there might not even be food. And then there is Uji, I wanted to add a couple more tea houses to the article, but wasn't sure where. As they mostly also sell food or tea, it could go either under 'eat' or 'buy' as well. However this town is really famous for its tea, so it would IMO better fit into the 'drink' section, together with a note that there is not much nightlife. Drat70 (talk) 01:09, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

I think we should all use our own judgment on places that could go in 2 or 3 sections, picking the one that corresponds to whatever we feel they emphasize most or are most famous for. And then in that listing, of course whatever else they do should be mentioned in "content". Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:06, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Preserving flexibility in the articles is probably more important that consistency, you are right guys. Glad I asked. --Willthewanderer (talk) 14:22, 22 August 2017 (UTC)