Wikivoyage:Travellers' pub/2010

The following are archived discussions from the Project:Travellers' pub. They should not be modified.

Copyright Map

I'd like to make a Wikivoyage-style map based of this: . Could anyone tell me if that's allowed, copyright-wise? (WT-en) globe-trotter 18:00, 4 January 2010 (EST)

Definitely, our upload form stipulates that when uploading an image without a specified license, you consent to its being licensed under CC-by-SA. And furthermore, User:(WT-en) Lex was well aware of this (although you would be on perfectly sound legal footing to use the map even if he were not). --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 18:04, 4 January 2010 (EST)

OK, thanks for the info :) (WT-en) globe-trotter 19:00, 4 January 2010 (EST)

Lex listed the source as Tourism NT, presumably the official tourism agency of the Northern Territory. I'm not clear on how that's compatible with CC-by-sa 1.0, unless NT government sources are automatically public domain. (WT-en) LtPowers 19:32, 4 January 2010 (EST)

Yes, but it seems like User:(WT-en) Lex is an employee of Tourism NT, which would mean that the official tourism agency of the Northern Territory agrees with the CC-by-SA 1.0 license? (WT-en) globe-trotter 19:39, 4 January 2010 (EST)

The permissions got a bit scattered, but he definitely stated that he had permission to license his text and uploaded files, and that he was tasked by his agency for the specific purpose of improving WT coverage of their region. It's fully kosher. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 20:09, 4 January 2010 (EST)

Added Languages to Babel

Just letting people know that I added the following languages to Project:Babel:

Swahili
Tamil
Wolof
Yoruba
Tagalog (some were there, I added the other levels)
Korean (some were there, but it was not listed on the page. I added the other levels.)
Zulu (only the beginner and intermediate levels)

I don't think many people check the Babel page after they initially add what is there, so I thought I'd mention it here so you can add them, if you know any of them or wish to pretend you know any of them. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 03:24, 5 January 2010

CC license upgrade -- status / consistency

Hi everyone!

I am wondering, what the status of the license upgrade is...

On the top of the "Main Page" I read that the upgrade "has been approved". And in the footer of the "Main Page" it also states "Text is available under Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0, ...".

Still, the logo here links to the old license and on some sites (e.g. http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/South_America) the footer says, text is available under the old license, too.

So, please get me a status! :-) —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 88.72.203.83 (talk • contribs)

The logo link is waiting on IB to fix it -- who knows how long that'll take. However, the footer issue you saw is the dreaded caching issue that happens around here quite a lot. If you force-reload the page (Shift-F5 in most browsers), edit it, or manually purge the cache for that page (link also on the edit page), it'll update the footer immediately and display "Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0" like it should. It'll also correct itself automatically for all pages as the cache expires, but that will take at least several more days. It's a little bumpy, I know! - (WT-en) D. Guillaime 13:22, 6 January 2010 (EST)

Which logo? --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 15:55, 6 January 2010 (EST)

The CC graphic at the far left of the page footer. - (WT-en) D. Guillaime 16:36, 6 January 2010 (EST)

I tried simply deleting the image, but no luck. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 16:45, 6 January 2010 (EST)

Not ours to delete, it's actually linking to CC's own server: . That's probably something else IB should fix, now that I see it....

What needs doing is discussed at project talk:License upgrade#New license?, though it's not clear if anyone has actually requested these specific changes from IB yet. Discussion should continue there. - (WT-en) D. Guillaime 17:13, 6 January 2010 (EST)

Blocked page

The Tiberias page seems to be blocked. I cannot make any edits. I want to change the breadcrumb of this article to be in the Galilee region, but somehow it doesn't work. Could anyone tell me how to edit this page or get the lock off? --(WT-en) globe-trotter 18:31, 19 January 2010 (EST)

Hmm, same with Ashkelon. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 18:58, 19 January 2010 (EST)

I tried, hit the spamfilter with a warning re one of the hotel links to israel a la carte .com, worked fine with that removed. (WT-en) Andyfarrell 19:01, 19 January 2010 (EST)

I guess it was that blacklisted url identified by Andy that was causing the issue. This demonstrates that when blacklisting any url, an administrator should ideally do a search and remove that url from all articles. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 21:21, 19 January 2010 (EST)

Thanks for the fixes, I was looking for that URL, but I couldn't find it. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 22:07, 19 January 2010 (EST)

Advice on countries?

Is there anywhere here on WT to ask for people's advice on cities/countries to visit, with a few criteria? Thanks! (WT-en) Tristan Thomas 17:30, 20 January 2010 (EST)

In general no, we try not to discriminate against countries, so for a start such information is not really available here in the destination guides. As for individual travel advice, we originally set up Wikivoyage Extra for that purpose, but unfortunately it's used much - Lonely Planets Thorn Tree is generally second to none, and I would recommended trying there - other good travel forums include Travbuddy and Virtual Tourist. Hope that helps --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) ^talk 17:40, 20 January 2010 (EST)

If you see that a particular WT user is knowledgable about a particular destination, no harm in asking advice on their talk page. Also we have docent system. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 10:15, 21 January 2010 (EST)

Duplicate place names?

Hi, I'm trying to add some information on "Thurso" and did a search for it which took me to the page about the one in Quebec. I want to add info on the one in Scotland. I then did a search for "Thurso Scotland" which listed it.

How would I go about creating a "Did you mean...?" page which lists all the available Thursos for anyone searching?

(WT-en) Mosh 06:47, 23 January 2010 (EST)

No worries - sorted! Managed to dredge the memory banks and recall how I did it on Wikipedia many moons ago. (WT-en) Mosh 07:03, 23 January 2010 (EST)

For the next reader to come along, you were looking for Project:Disambiguation pages. (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:01, 26 January 2010 (EST)

New version of iTravelFree, a free Wikivoyage iPhone app, now available

I'm pleased to announce that the new and much-improved Version 2.0 of my iPhone app iTravelFree is now available in the App Store. It lets you easily browse all Wikivoyage content from your iPhone (or iPod Touch); keeps a copy of what you've downloaded, so you can read it offline; and displays listings on a map, too, based on their addresses or lat/long coordinates.

There's a FAQ and a screenshot-laden tutorial available at the app's web site: weTravelRight. As per the name, iTravelFree is absolutely free. (There is a paid version, iTravel, but it is functionally identical; I'm hoping that the guiltware model will offset some of my server and development costs.)

New features and improvements:

Improved stability
Much improved user interface
The ability to add and edit Wikivoyage listings from within the app
Connect to Yelp, Google Search, and Flickr without leaving the app
Navigate Wikivoyage via an iTunes-like interface, or unroll pages and sections into a single screen for browsing
Maps show not just listings but also cities and other macro-level locations
It's easy to refresh data
You can choose your font face and size, among other new settings
A host of other tweaks and improvements

I'm also hard at work on an Android version: expect a first release within the next two weeks. I'll announce it here.

Comments, questions, praise, complaints, suggestions? Use my talk page here or email me at itravel@rezendi.com.

(WT-en) Rezendi 15:40, 26 January 2010 (EST)

UNESCO World Heritage Sites

I noticed that the Mali article lists these sites under Other Destinations despite the fact that two of the three sites are located within (small) cities. As far as I know, ODs should not be cities or attractions within cities. Should we list UNESCO World Heritage sites, apart from destinations such as national parks which would be featured as ODs otherwise? (WT-en) AHeneen 10:40, 29 January 2010 (EST)

No. They should be mentioned under "See" or "Do", as appropriate. (WT-en) LtPowers 11:35, 29 January 2010 (EST)

"There's a lemon party and you're invited" in "Discover" box

Is this some kind of cryptic joke? --(WT-en) Arthur Hemp 01:02, 31 January 2010 (EST)

I deleted your porn link. If people want to know what he was talking about, here's a wikipedia DESCRIPTION (no dirty image here) —The preceding comment was added by 96.239.164.35 (talk • contribs)

Discriminaton on Romanian WikiTravel

Are discriminated on the project in Romanian! Sysop while bureaucrat, I block all accounts! Please take a measure! Unnecessarily blocked me, without doing vandalism or more! Please. Thanks. --(WT-en) Ervin C. 09:13, 11 February 2010 (EST)

Please make your request in proper English. Thank you! --(WT-en) Vlad 09:35, 11 February 2010 (EST)

OK, now, say why I block all accounts? Thank you! --(WT-en) Ervin C. 09:47, 11 February 2010 (EST)

Why you block all accounts? --(WT-en) Vlad 09:57, 11 February 2010 (EST)

Now I understand what this discussion is about, I think it is inappropriate that it is taking place here at English Wikivoyage. It is a Romanian Wikivoyage matter and ought to be discussed there.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 10:02, 11 February 2010 (EST)

Yes, why you block my all accounts, I don't know. --(WT-en) Ervin C. 10:03, 11 February 2010 (EST)

You already trolled and sockpuppeted at Romanian Wikipedia, Romanian Wikinews, Romanian WikiTravel, this is why you were blocked. And I've already explained you that. Please stop harassing me by mail, there is nothing else to say. --(WT-en) Vlad 10:09, 11 February 2010 (EST)

But I did bad on that wiki? We have not made any worse by the record, even I made some good articles and I put accents on some items. And not a troll! --(WT-en) Ervin C. 10:19, 11 February 2010 (EST)

I think you need to stop messing around. You've build yourself a trackrecord, now deal with it. You're not going to find support here, especially not for a matter that is no concern of English wikivoyage, so you can quit trying. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) ^talk 10:27, 11 February 2010 (EST)

Range blocks

There is a debate over range blocks with IB happening at the Shared Travellers' pub, regulars please chime in. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) ^talk 14:20, 11 February 2010 (EST)

IB has responded, ruling out; no follow, common.js and range blocks‎. Regulars, please join the discussion on shared. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Sertmann (talk • contribs)

Where did they rule out nofollow? (WT-en) LtPowers 19:13, 18 February 2010 (EST)

Here. -- (WT-en) D. Guillaime 19:17, 18 February 2010 (EST)

Hmm

Any ideas as to why my talk page comes up as an article in need of attention? Very weird. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 04:38, 22 February 2010 (EST)

If you update the "Diving in Saipan" comment to put a colon in front of the category reference - [[:Category:...]] instead of [[Category:...]] it should fix itself. The former creates a link to a category page, the latter adds an article to a category. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 10:16, 22 February 2010 (EST)

Excellent spot Ryan. Fixed:). Thanks very much. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 11:04, 22 February 2010 (EST)

Discussions on shared..

Those who don't maintain watchlists on shared, may wish to know that there are a few discussions taking place there now.

At project talk:Image policy - a discussion of how we balance our goal of freedom of distribution against our goal of comprehensive and well illustrated guide.

At wts:Tech talk:Enable rel="nofollow" - animated discussion of anti-SEO tactics, continue..

At wts:WtTech:Move reverts auto-delete - IB saying how we should use redirects, and the community responses to that.

Any some others --(WT-en) inas 19:08, 24 February 2010 (EST)

Time Out Explores Malaysia with Malaysia Airlines

I would like to get this published, Under what section would this come?

(advertisement for a travel guide book removed)--(WT-en) Burmesedays 05:10, 1 March 2010 (EST)

As it is an advertisement for a guide book, absolutely nowhere on Wikivoyage is my answer to your question.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 05:10, 1 March 2010 (EST)

wow this isn't a wikimedia project

How close is this project to Wikimedia projects? Would the same rules of Wikipedia apply here? I mean, moof them are common sense I guess... just curiosu about how different it was... Thanks --207.177.111.120 22:26, 6 March 2010 (EST)

Actually, most of our rules are different, sometimes wildly so but other times in subtle ways. Read Project:Welcome, Wikipedians for detailed information. (WT-en) LtPowers 23:02, 6 March 2010 (EST)

Blocking a URL

Sorry I'm fairly new at this whole wikivoyage thing (or wiki anything for that matter), but I've tried to read all the policies and whatnot before I start helping out. Not sure if this is where I should voice this but I've noticed the URL http://www.cittavecchialocarno.ch is spammed allover the place in articles in Switzerland. I've tried to tidy it up a bit but is there a place where I could request the URL being blocked? Where is the best place to voice my concerns about vandalism or other things going against policy to admins who can do something about it? Thanks! - (WT-en) Kayla 23:07, 15 March 2010 (EDT)

This is as good a place as any. We do have a blacklist that can disallow the URL; is it currently being added to articles repeatedly, or do you think it might have been just a one-time spammer who came through? Neither is necessarily an impediment to blacklisting, but it might affect the urgency. (WT-en) LtPowers 08:19, 16 March 2010 (EDT)

It's quite possible it was a one-time thing. It was within an article in Switzerland (Locarno), but the url had been added to EVERY single section. ie "more about this hotel at: url" "more about this restaurant at : url" etc. I removed it for now, but I was just wondering if there was some other course of action I should take. Some sort of "report to admin" or something. You know a "be a tattle tale" button or something:P - (WT-en) Kayla 05:33, 20 March 2010 (EDT)

Nobody likes a tattletale ~~Cindy~~ Kayla! ;-) (WT-en) TomNativenewYorker 11:31, 20 March 2010 (EDT)

Slow page

Hi! I tried on Friday and today to revert and rollback some changes but WT is painful slow at the moment when it comes to rollback or undos. Does anyone experiences the same troubles? I will stop now because i don't have the time to wait so long. Internet is working fast on other sites. (WT-en) jan 04:33, 29 March 2010 (EDT)

I find that happens from time to time. Do you use tabs? I find patrolling on WT almost unusable without them. Hold cntl to revert or undo in a new tab, continue to the next edit, and flick through the tabs later to finish up the job. --(WT-en) inas 23:09, 29 March 2010 (EDT)

I started to do it with the tabs but i can't excessively do that as i'm sitting at my work desk and my boss maybe wonder sometime what i'm doing... (WT-en) jan 03:00, 30 March 2010 (EDT)

Have to get quicker on that cntl-tab key - flipping between screens always looks busy :-) You are right though, saving edits today is taking forever for me.. --(WT-en) inas 18:35, 30 March 2010 (EDT)

When it is slow to revert it also sometimes logs me out. Perhaps that is the fault of my connection, but it never seems to happen when I am in Wikipedia although in Wikipedia I am not doing much reverting! (WT-en) Shep 01:24, 31 March 2010 (EDT)

HTTP 500 Internal Server failure

Hi! I experience today a big amount of failure notices when i try to use Wikivoyage. The most seen error notice is HTTP 500 Internal Server failure which is rather annoying plus very slow when it comes to rollbacks... I tried to login/logout, delete my cache etc. but nothing seems to work. Anybody else havin issues? (WT-en) jan 05:44, 29 April 2010 (EDT)

Yes, that happened to me too, but worked fine again after a while, --(WT-en) ClausHansen 09:47, 30 April 2010 (EDT)

anyone encountered consistent "host unreachable" in the last 2 months?

I wonder if I'm alone in suffering from a consistent "host unreachable" behavior on wikivoyage for certain networks? See wts:WtTech:Wikivoyage doesn't load at all from certain subnetworks for details. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 16:32, 14 May 2010 (EDT)

I have the same error sometimes. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 20:05, 14 May 2010 (EDT)

Rochester (New York)

I'm hitting a bit of a wall with my improvements to Rochester (New York). I would greatly appreciate some fresh eyes and any accompanying advice as to which parts of the article might most be in need of attention. Thanks in advance! (WT-en) LtPowers 13:46, 6 May 2010 (EDT)

User:194.17.116.224

Hi! Anon user 194.17.116.224 in the last month made a tremendous effort to rewrite Swiss and Austrian talk sections. He thinks that he is right and all others are wrong concerning the proper naming of German. Lately he started to insult other editors (especially me). I blocked him now for two hours and tried to explain him we are not Wikipedia and that even Wikipedia has a wide variation for German not to start with all other specialties... I tried to explain we are based on consensus but so far he deciced to stay a lonesome cowboy. Please revert on spot. (WT-en) jan 07:44, 7 May 2010 (EDT)

Suckiness

I can barely use WT of late—it has been running so slowly. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 20:31, 11 May 2010 (EDT)

Some monitoring scripts I've got show it dropping off the net (connection timeout) at 17:15 Pacific today, and at around 20:00 Pacific last night - both times for about twenty minutes. Otherwise response times look normal. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 20:48, 11 May 2010 (EDT)

I occasionally have periods where I have to wait several seconds for a response from the server, but lately they've been fleeting (five minutes at most). (WT-en) LtPowers 22:49, 11 May 2010 (EDT)

Also had a lot of issues lately. Quite often loading takes forever and sometimes I get like a very rudimentary text version without any of the layout ... --(WT-en) Sebindi 12:14, 12 May 2010 (EDT)

I have no idea why, but the D.C. guides seem harder to edit than any other pages. This often seems to be the case, but it's exacerbated by the fact that the whole site seems really slow the past few days. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 12:54, 12 May 2010 (EDT)

Over the last two months, it has gotten to the point where I'm surprised if I don't have to refresh at least twice or three times to get the page to load fully and properly.(WT-en) Texugo 20:32, 12 May 2010 (EDT)

Quite so, but I believe that's a different issue. (WT-en) LtPowers 08:55, 13 May 2010 (EDT)

Could it be a factor of some content being on different servers? It is strange when a particular guide is always slow (as Peter experiences with DC). London is so slow I usually do not bother. On general slowness, one tip is to use Chrome. A stripped down browser makes up for a lot speedwise.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 09:08, 13 May 2010 (EDT)

I'm using Chrome already and still have these problems. It seems like the first time I call up Wikivoyage is the worst. (WT-en) Texugo 11:23, 13 May 2010 (EDT)

My experience is that the speed of WT is highly depend on the day time. During the European morning and lunch time (night time in the US) i can edit without problems and have new issue. If i want to edit in the evening it is pretty slow and it takes sometime to even just revert something. This is why i'm pretty active in the morning (6-16 CEST) but not in the evening. So far i have not experienced differences between loading times from articles. (WT-en) jan 08:16, 14 May 2010 (EDT)

I have experienced similar over the last few months so the problem seems to still be current in late October 2010. I am using an IP in indonesia and of course accessing the internet in any form from that country has it's own interesting set of issues and frustrations. Similar to (WT-en) Burmesedays I have been considering that maybe we are accessing the WT pages concerned from a mirror server and that maybe it is that mirror server causing the problems. When comparing to other similar sites (such as WP) WT seems still to have some issues at this time (late October 2010). I often have an experience similar to (WT-en) Texugo. Sometimes I do not even get a page preview or edited page to load at all. As a result either the edit process is disrupted leaving a certain air of mystery to the outcome of my edit or preview attempt. Indeed this has been an interesting feature of WT editing ever since I first tried it but is seems to have got a lot worse in the last few months despite my net connection getting a little bit better in the same time frame. I have been assuming the WT servers were being flooded by DOS attacks and that consequentially those servers were getting overloaded. I am sure (WT-en) Burmesedays is having similar overall net access issues as he is also on an end branch of the pipe in Indonesia. However he seems to be MIA at the moment, maybe he is elsewhere in the world at this time. I suspect this is an issue arising from a problem other than 3rd world internet access. A page refresh may grind on for several minutes or time out. An edit preview or edit save will often either take an eternity to resolve and will often 'hang' the browser whilst the page loads at a speed comparable to paint drying on a rainy day. Indeed on some days I am lucky if the power is even on long enough to finish an edit. On many occasions I have to walk away from an embarrassing edit error and often come back to it many hours later when the power and net access have finally returned. I am assuming there is either a WT server error or some sort of javascript conflict contributing to these problems. I also get edit confict messages when I am the only editor present and there is no apparent reason for any content conflict with my own edit or that of anyone else, ie just clicked on the preview button, this is quite common and I have back-refresh, save the edit content, reload the original article and re-edit, can be a bit frustrating when the power then goes off in the middle of the whole exercise or this preview edit/save edit hang occurs as well. I also edit on Wikipedia and do not experience these issues there other than very occasionally and if so to a much lesser degree. Those occurrences are most probably reasonably consistent with the general net access issues we have here. I think that if using the WP servers in similar conditions does not consistently give rise to the same issues then maybe we are indeed looking at a problem arising from WT. (WT-en) felix 04:11, 22 October 2010 (EDT)

I am having similar problems in South Africa, perhaps not quite so bad, and not consitent to any pattern I have been able to work out yet. I tried Chrome, but it doesnt make a noticeable difference. WT is usually worse and slower than other sites. Cheers, (WT-en) Peter (Southwood) ^Talk 15:12, 24 October 2010 (EDT)

World Cup 2010

Just 22 days to go. This article needs updating urgently. Can anyone do it? (WT-en) Shep 15:46, 18 May 2010 (EDT)

New Wikipedia design

I've noticed Wikipedia has a nifty new design. Is is possible to also update this design and use it on Wikivoyage? --(WT-en) globe-trotter 14:45, 31 May 2010 (EDT)

We certainly could incorporate elements of the new design if someone was willing to dig into the CSS files, make the necessary changes, and then convince IB to do the replacement. But I believe the full new design requires elements of the latest versions of the MediaWiki software, which would require an upgrade on IB's part, something they've mentioned in the past but I can't see happening any time soon. (WT-en) LtPowers 15:01, 31 May 2010 (EDT)

I hate the new design. I always have to login to see the old look. Lets not make the mistake of bringing it here.--(WT-en) TrekkingTurtle 19:15, 9 October 2010 (EDT)

Strickland, MS?

I want to add this to the project but i don't know what MS stands for i thought mississippi but i could be wrong. thank you. --(WT-en) Varajou89 06:16, 24 May 2010 (EDT)

Why do you want to add it? If you want to write an article about Strickland, please go ahead and add it. It looks like a very, very small place though. If you want to add an empty article, then please do not bother.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 06:26, 24 May 2010 (EDT)

Wikipedia attribution

So in this discussion, I mentioned that I am not a fan of putting the new Wikipedia attribution template at the bottom of the main article page. Notes about sources and copyright info have always gone on the talk page in the past, and I don't see any reason for the Wikipedia note to have a permanent place on the main namespace. There is no way for any other kind of contribution to get permanent mention there, so the exception for this one seems odd to me. I would like to propose that attribution notifications be given a permanent place at the top of the talk page. There they will still be highly visible and they won't accidentally get swept away into archives, etc. What does everyone think? (WT-en) Texugo 11:06, 22 March 2010 (EDT)

Definitely agree. I have used this template a lot for various African articles, and would much prefer to see it on a talk page.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 11:07, 22 March 2010 (EDT)

No. It needs to be at the bottom because that's where the rest of the attribution information is found. If it's on the talk page, a reuser may not know to look there for additional attributions. (WT-en) LtPowers 16:28, 22 March 2010 (EDT)

That is incorrect. At the bottom of the page is only a randomly selected list of contributors, with a link to the complete list. It has never included source info-- notes about text sources (i.e. release notifications, etc.) have always gone on the talk page, the same way image source info is off in the image source file. If we insist that any text must be sourced on the main article page, we could end up with a whole pile of boxes at the bottom of some articles, which I think is tacky and unnecessary.(WT-en) Texugo 23:36, 22 March 2010 (EDT)

I suppose I'm responsible for creating that template, which I added in line with the existing {{Attribution}} and {{Mergecredit}} templates as documented in the template index, in turn based on earlier discussions of requesting permission from others and crediting original sources of translated pages.

Mind you, now that I check it, it seems that {{Attribution}} is only used on two pages, and that I've personally added all but one of {{Mergecredit}}'s uses, neither of which had I previously realized. — (WT-en) D. Guillaime 00:58, 23 March 2010 (EDT)

We could amend MediaWiki:Copyright to say something like "additional attribution information may be found on the article's talk page." Either way, we're still making things miles easier for re-users than Wikimedia does. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 01:30, 23 March 2010 (EDT)

That seems like a good solution. I realise that the Wikipedia attribution is necessary, but let's try try get it off the main article. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 01:37, 23 March 2010 (EDT)

Sounds good to me! (WT-en) Texugo 01:40, 23 March 2010 (EDT)

There are so few articles that have additional attribution information (at least it seems so?) that I might prefer a single, subtle template as a talk page pointer for the few that need it, rather than padding out MediaWiki:Copyright for everything. That's merely an aesthetic thought, though, not an argument of any substance. — (WT-en) D. Guillaime 02:47, 23 March 2010 (EDT)

I don't see why we should separate attribution information like that. We link to Wikipedia because Wikipedians wrote some of the text in the article, and they should be credited just like Wikivoyageers who are credited at the end of the article. Since we can't transclude the Wikipedia article's history, the next best thing is to make sure that people looking for attribution information know where to find it and don't think that the auto-generated information at the bottom is the be-all and end-all. (WT-en) LtPowers 08:54, 23 March 2010 (EDT)

Mainly because it doesn't look very nice. Wikipedia do not even credit their own writers on the page they contribute to (at least not in a place obvious to me), so I am not at all sure why we should worry about it. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 09:26, 23 March 2010 (EDT)

Also, reserving the article space for travel content alone has long been a goal, which is why we have shunned the practice of crediting photographers in thumbnail captions, as well as in-article ads of any sort. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 12:21, 23 March 2010 (EDT)

Understandable, but at least we're consistent with the image credits. With text credits, they're scattered all over the place if text was imported from other sources; keeping them as close together as possible is ideal. If we had a way to stick the information in the footer or on the credits page, I'd be all for that, but we don't. (WT-en) LtPowers 15:55, 23 March 2010 (EDT)

Well, Peter's suggestion is just that, to add a note to the footer pointing to the talk page. I'm all for it. (WT-en) Texugo 06:44, 24 March 2010 (EDT)

Yeah, I agree - I'm tired of seeing these boxes cluttering up pages. If anyone asks, we can point them to the talk page (heck, if they're familiar with Wikipedia, the talk page is probably the first place they will look!). (WT-en) PerryPlanet ^Talk 18:58, 24 March 2010 (EDT)

I don't think that's sufficient. (WT-en) LtPowers 20:53, 24 March 2010 (EDT)

Well, do you want to offer any suggestions as to what would be sufficient? (WT-en) PerryPlanet ^Talk 22:16, 24 March 2010 (EDT)

I believe the current templates are our best solution at this time. (WT-en) LtPowers 09:30, 25 March 2010 (EDT)

Why? You have made no reasonable arguments as to why this is necessary. Any Wikipedian will surely not expect it as it does not happen over there. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 12:10, 25 March 2010 (EDT)

I already explained why. First and foremost, we are not Wikipedia. Wikipedia does not place its text credits in a convenient location at the bottom of every article page. One must, when attributing in Wikipedia, go through the history and record the usernames listed there -- and, if the page history indicates merges occurred, link to additional pages and find those pages' histories. Alternatively, if the content was copied from a compatible but extra-Wikipedia source, they use a template, such as Wikipedia:Template:CCBYSASource, which is placed on the article page to inform users that the text was not original to Wikipedia.

Wikivoyage, on the other hand, places its text credits in a convenient location at the bottom of every article page. Except that it only works if the author physically edited the Wikivoyage article to add the text; if it was added by someone else, the wrong author gets credited. We should make every effort to make sure that all sources are pointed out at least as prominently as the auto-generated credits block is displayed. The best way to do that is with a template at the bottom of the article, just like Wikipedia does. (WT-en) LtPowers 19:38, 25 March 2010 (EDT)

I don't see it that way. The auto-generated credits at the bottom of the page are only a fractional random sampling and one still has to click to another page to get the full list. Any notes from non-wiki websites relicensing their text to us are still going to go on the talk page, and there is no way around that. All images sources are off on their own pages and that is unlikely to change. All our attribution is not nor ever has been all in one place, and I don't see any particularly need to clutter up the main namespace articles just to make it so.(WT-en) Texugo 22:38, 25 March 2010 (EDT)

It's not random; it's the most recent contributors. And the link to the full list is right there. Putting these small templates at the very bottom of an article is not cluttering at all, and it keeps most of the most important information together. (WT-en) LtPowers 07:39, 26 March 2010 (EDT)

And the link being suggested would also be right there, instead of up in the article space.(WT-en) Texugo 00:38, 27 March 2010 (EDT)

I agree with (WT-en) LtPowers. The idea behind WT is that you should be able to copy and reuse the WT guide, without having to worry about things not in the article namespace. We use the talk article to get the article right to make the real article free and available for everyone to use. --(WT-en) inas 20:53, 28 March 2010 (EDT)

Laudable Inas. But we do not do that now, do we? And it is surely impractical to even try. The only credits in the main article space are the last few contributors. Image and map credits are not in the main article at all. The onus is on the reuser to find out. We cannot babysit every possible reuser of the site. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 21:37, 28 March 2010 (EDT)/

As LtPowers inadvertently reminded me here, there are other cases where we can't get around using the talk page for attribution notes too, such as merge and redirect or merge and delete cases. Just another reason why I think we need a dedicated attribution space on the talk page. I certainly don't think we need to create yet another box template for that kind of thing just to pile at the bottom of the main page. (WT-en) Texugo 23:30, 1 April 2010 (EDT)

I've been hanging out on the fence on this one, since both sides to the argument have plenty of merit. But ultimately, I think it's important that we draw the distinction between travel content and non-travel content in our guides, as we have done with ads.

Ideally, we'll find a way to stick this sort of attribution (from WP, other language versions, etc.) in the footer alongside the list of Wikivoyagers, but until then, I think the least bad solution is to put the templates on the talk page and note that re-users should check the talk page for additional attribution information. This is how we have handled image attribution, for example, also owing to the lack of tech support to get it in the footer, as well as the problem of having one name too many in the list. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 12:17, 19 May 2010 (EDT)

What's going on then?

With all these active members with high school yearbook names? All seem to be new members but all edits are coming through as patrolled (by themselves?). As I am writing this, we have the following users in the last 20 edits on the recent changes screen: User:(WT-en) Miranda.paullin, User:(WT-en) Christina.Megan, User:(WT-en) JennieStarner, User:(WT-en) Jennifer Paster, User:(WT-en) BeverlyEKeith, User:(WT-en) VeronicaVanHouten, User:(WT-en) VictoriaRussell, User:(WT-en) Caitlin Bannister. Very unusual. All women, all with names that sound like they are lifted from a prom night guest list in a movie, all apparently new and all produce edits that seem to patrol themselves. With the edits, there is little pattern except some are copy vios from other travel sites.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 01:06, 9 April 2010 (EDT)

As I understand it, the Mediawiki default is that any account older than 30 days (such as VeronicaVanHouten) have auto-patrolled edits; changing the defaults for when a user is auto-patrolled would be an IB issue. As to why we're seeing these edits, if I had to guess I'd suspect that it's part of a college course - we got a bunch of them about two months ago, so perhaps the most recent batch are students finishing up at the last minute? -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 01:22, 9 April 2010 (EDT)

That would all make sense. Please all patrollers look out for these. A number of articles have been butchered format-wise and the edits are all coming up as auto-patrolled. Fighting a losing battle here.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 12:48, 9 April 2010 (EDT)

I have seen the edits of Veronica as well (and welcomed her) as she was busy contributing and didn't violated policies. She didn't really good MoS wise but that's maybe because she didn't have seen the policies... I agree with Ryan that more and more Colleges, High schools etc. use Wikivoyage and start educate pupils in how to use Wikis. I regular find the british school in Bangkok, some canadians etc. if you search the IP (WT-en) jan 12:00, 10 April 2010 (EDT)

There have been a number of edits recently for New England towns that look like they may be college projects - Blackstone and Roger Williams Park seem like two likely candidates - so the college students may be back. A bit of extra vigilance and patience in recent changes patrolling is probably worthwhile. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 00:31, 26 October 2010 (EDT)

Chinese Wikivoyage

I have been trying to give the Chinese version some structural base for people to make contributions by creating each country page. I am curious though:
1. Is it possible for the Chinese version to be changed to the Japanese set-up? I don't know how Chinese (or Chinese speakers) feel, but to me, it looks nicer with the Chinese characters.
2. The "add listing" feature, even as it is, requires the contributor to know English (or look it up), which defeats the purpose of a non-English language version. Is there any way to get that changed? (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 02:27, 3 May 2010 (EDT)

IMO its too dangerous to use the Japanese setup as not all the characters in Japanese are the same as Chinese, and the Chinese hate the Japanese still. If you want to do a Chinese version it must be setup for the Chinese not the Japanese. If you need any translations let me know. —The preceding comment was added by 109.123.86.185 (talk • contribs)

It wasn't a proposal for the Chinese version to copycat the Japanese version; it just seems to suit the characters better and works well for both languages. If you're interested in translating for the Chinese version or helping on the Chinese Wikivoyage, then by all means, plunge forward! It's relatively new, so there is a lot to improve. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 17:22, 21 July 2010 (EDT)

Cleanup tasks/discussions worth noting

Two items worth noting for anyone who might have missed them: first, the Project:Collaboration of the month is on for June and includes a number of housekeeping tasks that people can get involved with. Second, User:(WT-en) Inas is soliciting feedback for some automated scripts that can detect common article errors, touty language, etc - those interested in joining the discussion can comment at Project:Syntax checks#Discussion... -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 10:30, 7 June 2010 (EDT)

Hotel Chain blacklisting

How would people feel about some procedures on blacklisting hotel chains that continually violates our policies and hospitality? (more specifically Best Western and Marriott at the moment)?

Sure we'd miss out on a few generic hotel properties, but in my view its not much more different than not listings McDonalds restaurants in our eat sections, and being able to mount a credible threat to the SEO consultants might make them think twice before doing stuff like this

I'm thinking something like:

If a hotel chain have

Been given several (more than 5) warnings on Wikivoyage talk pages.
The chains management have been contacted by email to warn about a pending blacklist voting, and not responded/won't not enact internal procedures to stop the abuse.

The community may decide to blacklist the chains name, after a consensus decision have been made on the blacklist talk page. Likewise, If the chains management fail to put an end to policy violations, a vote may be enacted 30 days after the management were first contacted. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) ^talk 09:17, 18 June 2010 (EDT)

Can't we just block users and IPs instead of whole chains? This could even lead to business owners ruining it for their competitors under false IPs. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 09:37, 18 June 2010 (EDT)

Stefan, i totally agree with you! Especially the Marriott chain is very unruly and a continious violator of our policies in Vienna, Hamburg and other german speaking cities.

G-t: Mariott works with own Ip's and marketers, it's a pretty big bunch of Ip's. I think it's much easier to control a block of the name than every individual. And most importantly, if the whole chain is blocked usually someone starts to interact with us instead of plain ignorance. E.g. see the discussions with the apartment agencies. (WT-en) jan 10:55, 18 June 2010 (EDT)

Provided there is a process by which the community must come to a consensus before blacklisting a chain then this may be OK, but I can't personally envision a scenario in which I would be in favor of blacklisting the entire Marriott or Best Western chains - while the marketers are hugely annoying, we'd also be throwing out a large number of traveler-written listings in the process, and I don't think any benefit would outweigh the disadvantage of losing so many good-faith user contributions. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 11:04, 18 June 2010 (EDT)

I strongly oppose this proposal. It unfairly punishes independent operators for the actions of others. The owner of the Best Western in Saint Marys (Pennsylvania) has no control over whether the owner of some other Best Western in another state or country spams Wikivoyage. (WT-en) LtPowers 14:52, 18 June 2010 (EDT)

Yeah, I knew this would be controversial, but I did check a hell of a lot of the Best Western/Mariott listings before I put up this proposal in the first place. And I must admit, I do fail to see much difference between listing McDonalds in every town they are located, and say, Best Western listings. I'm sure there are bunch of decent McDonalds franchisees as well. Somehow it just seems wrong to be pulling our pants down, bend over for the soap, and get arsefucked by a bunch of hotel marketeers, who don't give a rats ass about us in the first place, without any sort of response. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) ^talk 22:01, 18 June 2010 (EDT)

With chain restaurants they are literally a cookie-cutter copies of one another, with the same menu, same decoration, same food quality, etc - I've been to McDonald's on the Champs-Elysee (in my defense, it was just to use the bathroom - anyone who visits Paris and eats at McD's is damaged in the head) and it was the same as the one in my home town, albeit with a menu in French. Amongst hotels, even within a brand the amenities vary, age of the hotel varies, restaurant/bar varies, etc, so there is actually quite a lot to say about each one. As an example, within fifteen miles of where I live, the Marriot in Marina del Rey is vastly different from the downtown Marriott. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 22:24, 18 June 2010 (EDT)

Ryan, it might be that hotels vary in it's style but in essence the whole chain has standards (quality and employee/staff guidelines) that are world wide the same Especially Marriott hotels (i stay from time to time with them on a business trip) are pretty similiar from their interior in continental Europe. One good example is User talk:62.189.228.130 where the Marriott Europe HQ in Reading, England (IP search resulted in that the owner is Marriott) started to spam German-speaking cities and changed to other IP's once they discovered my messages. They know on the top-level they do wrong and other chains must feel stupid because they comply with our standards. There is no incentive for them to comply as long as we don't blacklist them. (WT-en) jan 07:37, 19 June 2010 (EDT)

But it doesn't improve our travel guides. What about the small town with nothing but a Best Western and maybe a bed-and-breakfast? You're thinking of big cities where travelers have lots of choices, but if this blacklisting idea goes through, we may end up with destinations where we say "there's only one major chain hotel in town" but can't say what it is. (WT-en) LtPowers 10:37, 19 June 2010 (EDT)

Keep in mind that Best Westerns and Mariotts are listed more frequently not because of scammers, but because of me. See User:(WT-en) Hotelmakerbot. Hard to believe, but there was once a time when we desperately needed hotel listings... -- (WT-en) Colin Jensen 22:07, 21 June 2010 (EDT)

Don't Support. I can't comment on Marriott hotels but I've stayed in a few Best Westerns and they do vary a lot ( at least in the UK). Yes they have minimum standards to be allowed to be part of Best Western but they are independent hotels with their own menu, decor, local character, etc. I would suggest we continue to blacklist on an IP basis even if this does cause more work for admins. (WT-en) Tarr3n 06:57, 22 June 2010 (EDT)

Colin, i know that a lot of listings where initially done by you but in the last years loads of articles were spammed with new listings by marketing companies. I assume Wikivoyage is partially a vistim of it's own success. The deletion and blacklisting on IP/hotel basis is very time consuming e.g. see User:(WT-en) Hotel Nikko San Francisco who was only interested to use his page for marketing.

Tarr3n: I know that Best Western hotels are franchises but the marketing is done for all of them because the spammer market here always a lot of hotels in a row. So it must be a joint effort by the hotels. (WT-en) jan 07:16, 22 June 2010 (EDT)

(indent) I know they are different, and this is not a suggestion to ban the said hotels per se, more of a way to gather some leverage against the marketing agencies which I suspect are paid from HQ, given the number of vastly different towns and cities they spam in. Its meant as a last resort tool to stop those agencies, when everything else fails. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) ^talk 11:12, 22 June 2010 (EDT)

Regarding "last resort tools", since most of these marketing agencies won't communicate with us on-wiki I've started sending non-threatening, professional emails as a way of trying to combat some of these companies - see User talk:74.7.154.242 and Project:User ban nominations for two examples. The hope is that if the people paying for these services realize some of the sketchy methods being employed that they will be less likely to hire these agencies in the future. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 11:20, 22 June 2010 (EDT)

On the fence - As Lt already pointed out, there are many places where chain hotels are literally the only places to stay. The McDonalds-Best Western analogy isn't fair, because even in the smallest town with a McDonalds there will still be a local restaurant (at least in North America, I can't speak for the rest of the world) but go to any little town along the interstate and you're likely to find your only choices are the Super 8 or the Best Western.

Now, that said, I do agree that handling this on an IP basis may not be enough of a disincentive for these guys to come in and add their spam listings, so what about some sort of compromise between the two sides here - what if we blacklisted chain motels just for that (or those) cities? Obviously the main target articles for these spammers will be cities where there's lots of competition, rather than tiny towns where they're the only choice. So instead of blacklisting the whole chain, we blacklist the ones in cities that keep getting hit with spammers? So if someone keeps adding spammy listings for a Best Western in San Francisco, we remove all Best Western listings in San Francisco, period. (WT-en) PerryPlanet ^Talk 13:14, 22 June 2010 (EDT)

Removing all listings of a major chain would be on the balance a disservice to the traveler. But blacklisting urls punitively might be an effective tool... The principal obstacle, though, is that blacklisting, say, Marriott, would make a huge percentage of our articles uneditable until their links had been painstakingly removed.

Contacting hotels can be really effective, and if it is from a single hotel, merely threatening to contact supervisors can put an end to things very fast. For enormous hotel chains, though, getting a hold of anyone relevant can be tough. I'm curious to see what sort of success Ryan's emails may produce! --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 22:23, 22 June 2010 (EDT)

So far there is no reaction on the Mumbai spammer because i had to block him today again because he started with several edits and didn't stop until the block. The main obstacle with multinational companies is that you need to find the right person first and second they never commit themselves to wrongdoing instead the usual term is individual misinterpretation of job tasks and some other guy will do it... (WT-en) jan 09:33, 24 June 2010 (EDT)

I may be in a unique position here, but I am also a Best Western owner. As has been stated earlier, all Best Westerns are individually owned and operated. The chain operates more as an owner's cooperative than a centralized franchise. So the actions of a few property management companies or individual owners may be skewing the results for the entire BW chain. I have never heard of any concerted effort made to penetrate WikiTravel in any of my marketing briefs from the Colorado marketing CO/OP or elsewhere. If there are any problems, I suggest you address it to the BW head of marketing, Dorothy Dowling, whose email I can provide in a private email to one of the Wikivoyage admins. But please don't punish an entire group of small business people because someone, somewhere isn't bothering to play by the rules. Thanks! (WT-en) WineCountryInn 15:09, 31 July 2010 (EDT)

Crafty Hungarian Vandal

User:Rühatka has been craftily uploading images in the Hungarian version under the same name as they have in Wikivoyage Shared so that his/her offensive/stupid images appear. (The "featured article star" is now the Communist emblem , the Saudi Arabia lead image was changed to this . All images by this user need to be deleted and all edits reverted. Is anyone able to? (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 20:29, 21 June 2010 (EDT)

I think we need to consider our options for these situations in general. Before I put this suggestion up on shared, how does granting our bureaucrats, admin rights on every language version (including English, in the name of fairness) sound to you guys? --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) ^talk 03:35, 23 June 2010 (EDT)

I definitely think we need some people from English Wikivoyage who are able to intervene in other language versions, because many of them seem to have lost their regular contributors. It would be nice to know we have at least SOME authority able to do something about this sort of thing. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 04:02, 23 June 2010 (EDT)

We have a community bureaucrat (i.e., someone we can reach) for all language versions. Just type "special:listadmins" in the search box of any language version. I am the bureaucrat on hu, and have undone the vandalism. If you have any interest in monitoring hu or any other forlorn language version, please let me know! --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 06:33, 23 June 2010 (EDT)

Major spam attack

Currently a spambot generates new user accounts and spams the usertalk page. Please help and add to the blacklist and delete the pages. Thanks! (WT-en) jan 15:39, 1 July 2010 (EDT)

The spambot still creates user accounts but the new page creation is slower as my new additions to the blacklist might slow the entering of text a bit. Any ideas to stop this? (WT-en) jan 15:50, 1 July 2010 (EDT)

Was just about to warn about this - the pattern is bit trickier than usual, anyone found a form, or are we blocking everything nonsensical? --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) ^talk 19:49, 3 July 2010 (EDT)

There is a discussion about this at Wikivoyage_talk:User_ban_nominations#Spambots. I'm a bit uncomfortable with the mass-block that's going on now as it isn't clear that some of those aren't legitimate user accounts. I think Peter's proposal of applying a permanent block as soon as we see spam from one of these accounts is safer. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 20:19, 3 July 2010 (EDT)

300 legit user accounts with random nonsensical names created at a rate of 1-2 per minute at specific time intervals? er, ok - I'll stop blocking then --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) ^talk 20:39, 3 July 2010 (EDT)

To clarify, there's no doubt that we're seeing a ton of accounts created by a spambot. However, it seems like our normal rate for user account creation is about one an hour, so blocking all accounts created since this attack began (even if the names look like gibberish) is likely to net some legitimate users unless there is some clear pattern to the spam account names. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 20:46, 3 July 2010 (EDT)

Erm, are we going to do anything about this?... I mean, in 4 days time, at the current rate, 10% of users on :en will be malicious spam accounts that will eventually be autoconfirmed. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) ^talk 19:24, 4 July 2010 (EDT)

Well, only one of the users in the current string actually updated something after creating an account. I'd say keep that one and delete the rest. What is the purpose of spambots on a website like this? Some legitimate users may be blocked, but if the spambots are able to cause problems, it may still be better for the site to block everyone in these strings of user account creations. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 20:14, 4 July 2010 (EDT)

I'd also prefer that we wait until we have some sort of confirmation that an account is spambot-created before blocking—blocking even one single potential user runs the risk of depriving us of a great contributor. If the bot plan is to let them go autoconfirmed and then attack, I have little doubt that we'll be able to handle it then. Moreover, there are already a host of more certainly spambot-created accounts that we allowed through without blocking, and they haven't really done anything—these may follow suit. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 21:44, 4 July 2010 (EDT)

Just a stupid question: can't you administrators somehow see from which IP those accounts are created? Then wouldn't it be easy to block that/those malicious IP-adresses? (WT-en) Ypsilon 08:38, 5 July 2010 (EDT)

Admins can't see IP addresses. I don't know if bureaucrats can or not. I believe we can block with the option to prevent account creation, though, which might or might not work (I'm sadly not up on the more arcane details). (WT-en) LtPowers 09:26, 5 July 2010 (EDT)

I believe only site admins can see IP addresses. If people want we can remove some of the "connect dot cityname" spam patterns that are currently blocking these spambot accounts when they try to edit. That would allow us to identify a few of them and then block the account & the IP that created the account, but typically these attacks come from a wide range of IP addresses so I'm not sure how valuable that would be. I'm not convinced that these accounts will be able to do much harm in the future - if we see any spam we simply use the blacklist - so I'm not sure this is really that big of a concern. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 11:44, 5 July 2010 (EDT)

Mostly out of curiosity I removed the "connect dot cityname" pattern from the blacklist, after which the bot was able to create spammy user talk pages. I then blocked those accounts, including blocking the IP address the account was created from, but the rate of account creation does not seem to have diminished. Based on that simple test, it looks like 1) this spambot is fairly harmless (it just keeps adding the same patterns to user talk pages) and 2) it is coming from a wide variety of IP addresses, so blocking account creation is probably not very effective. I think our current approach of using the blacklist while ignoring the spam user accounts is probably the best option. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 00:21, 6 July 2010 (EDT)

I gave this another try, this time blocking 15 accounts and the IP the account was created from, but if anything the rate of account creation has increased to one every 1-2 minutes. Whatever is hitting us is large & widespread, but it's luckily also dumb in that the spam is almost identical on every talk page, and the created accounts do not seem to get re-used. While it is disconcerting to have hundreds of spam accounts created each day, unless we can convince IB to implement captcha or something similar I think this is a relatively harmless attack that we're forced to live with until it finally stops. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 12:09, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

Ryan, thank you first for your effort and i think we need to get the tech guys from IB involved. If the editor of the spambot improves it, then we are in trouble. (WT-en) jan 12:14, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

Yeah, it has been suggested more that once before, but as Wrh2 mentions, it might be time for a renewed push to get IB to add a "captcha" to the account creation process-- I think it would prevent most of this trouble. We are facing a similar problem over on es:, with not quite the sheer numbers, but with several spambot users created every day from a variety of IP addresses and with a variety of texts and urls such that I have been unsuccessful at stopping the problem for months now.(WT-en) Texugo 22:14, 13 July 2010 (EDT)

I've tried writing team@myrxcash.com since all the links have one of their affiliate ID's (12781) attached, if they could ask him to stop, or cancel payments until the attack was brought to a hold. My spam folder on the mail account went from receiving 1-2 spam mails per day to around 150 per day, so I guess that means no. So much for their anti spam policy. Sigh. I have an urge to submit that email address to as many dubious websites i can find.... but.... hmmmm --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) ^talk 18:00, 21 July 2010 (EDT)

Template:Translate

I just wanted to make sure everyone is aware of one of our newer templates, Template:Translate, which identifies articles that could benefit from translation work from other language versions. So far it's only being used on one article, but there are plenty more potentials out there. Just remember to slap it on when you see a superior version elsewhere! --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 12:30, 2 July 2010 (EDT)

Do we have a guideline as to what is "superior"? Obviously star articles... Is this a case-by-case, judge it yourself sort of thing? (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 17:29, 2 July 2010 (EDT)

If there's any question, it's probably not worth the trouble of translating. But if we've got a nearly-blank article and, say, the Russian version has a nicely filled-out article, that's where the template might be useful. (WT-en) LtPowers 23:06, 2 July 2010 (EDT)

Error creating thumbnail: Invalid thumbnail parameters

Hi all, I have this message when I upload the latest version of a map on shared. Does anyone know what causes it and what I can do about it? Size is 2.18MB. Cheers, (WT-en) Peter (Southwood) ^Talk 08:12, 13 July 2010 (EDT)

We're not terribly sure what is going on—see wts:WtTech:Error creating thumbnail, Invalid thumbnail parameters. Try decreasing the size a little bit and re-uploading? --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 18:48, 13 July 2010 (EDT)

Star nomination

There is a star nomination out for Bangkok's Yaowarat and Pahurat district, please show your opinion at star nominations. Even minor comments are helpful to get the article up to star :) --(WT-en) globe-trotter 17:45, 16 July 2010 (EDT)

How to rename a page?

The topic Project:How to rename a page says to go to the "move this page link". However, I can't find the link on my screen.

I am looking at the page Central Eastern Rainforest Reserves. This area was renamed in 2007. See talk page for details. Should change to "Gondwana Rainforests of Australia".

Thanks. (WT-en) Bill Ellett 22:22, 20 July 2010 (EDT)

There should be a tab next to "history" on the top of your screen. I believe that as a security measure Mediawiki may no longer allow users who have been registered for less than 30 days to rename pages, so if you don't see that tab then someone else can rename the page for you. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 22:53, 20 July 2010 (EDT)

Yep, my account is four days old, so I've got another 26 to go. Can someone rename Central Eastern Rainforest Reserves to "Gondwana Rainforests of Australia"? You can see justification on its talk page. I'll change the pages linked to it once that happens. Also, it has a disambiguation tag on the page, but if I understand disambiguation correctly, I don't think it should be there. (WT-en) Bill Ellett 23:15, 20 July 2010 (EDT)

Done. I'll also update Project:How to rename a page to note the 30 day restriction. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 23:21, 20 July 2010 (EDT)

Thanks. All linked pages have been updated. (WT-en) Bill Ellett 23:42, 20 July 2010 (EDT)

reCAPTCHA

The wts:WtTech:CAPTCHA for registration tech request was finally fulfilled, but seems to have been accompanied by a surprise—CAPTCHA is now being used for all anonymous edits! That strikes me as undesirable, although Wikipedia's policy of requiring it for anon edits that contain new external links seems a good one. Since the vast majority of WT's new content comes from anon editors, I think we should be careful not to alienate them. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 13:10, 23 July 2010 (EDT)

I agree, this has to be changed, --(WT-en) ClausHansen 13:31, 23 July 2010 (EDT)

Redirected pages lose functionality?

Wikivoyage appears to show less functionality when users arrive at a page via a redirect rather than directly. Breadcrumbs, related pages, and docent lists do not show up after a redirect. Similar functionality such as other sites and toolbox:map still display even after a redirect. Purging the cache does not affect this. After seeing this on sites I have edited, I looked at random redirected sites and it appears to be universal. Search for “Vienna”. You see breadcrumb, destination docents, related pages:World heritage sites, and other sites:Wikipedia. Now go to “Vienna (City)”. It will automatically redirect to the same page, but no breadcrumb, docents, or related pages. You still have Wikipedia. Search for “Cahokia”. It will redirect you but the geo template “geo|38.656438|-90.058824” still gives you the map link after the redirect. You still get Wikipedia link but no breadcrumbs or related page. This does not appear to be affected by sequence of the templates or presence of blank lines around them. I am new on wikivoyage. I looked in help, policy, and guideline pages and didn’t find anything, but if I should be looking elsewhere, or if this should be asked on a different part of the site, please point me.

(A previous question today about breadcrumbs was resolved by simply purging the cache. Thanks Ryan). (WT-en) Bill in STL 15:59, 23 July 2010 (EDT)

Unfortunately, this is a known bug with some special features that were added onto the base MediaWiki installation in the early days of the project. Did you have a specific question for which you wanted an answer? (WT-en) LtPowers 16:12, 23 July 2010 (EDT)

UNESCO World Heritage List 2010 Additions

Just thought I'd let you all know that the UNESCO conference is going on in Brasilia through the 3rd. I'm not sure if more voting will go on, but so far 20 listings have been added and 7 extensions were made: . Be sure to update the UNESCO World Heritage List and when the conference is over, put a blurb in the travel news/main page. Even if you don't make edits to these pages (like my lazy self), check out the great new sites added! (WT-en) AHeneen 00:35, 2 August 2010 (EDT)

The announcements from Brasilia say that they are now finished with consideration of sites for this year. 21 new sites and eight extensions. All have been listed on the UNESCO World Heritage List page. (WT-en) Bill in STL 20:42, 2 August 2010 (EDT)

Travel Topics

I guess a new account is unable to edit protected pages; I was unable to put this on the Talk:Travel Topics page though logged in.

I noticed that there are a number (46 by my count) of pages which use the traveltopics template but are not listed on the Travel topics page. Is there a definition of which topics should show up and which should not? Or is there a process which gets them added automatically over time? Or should I plunge forward and start adding them. I don't want to screw up a standard process. The one which started my curiosity is the missing entry for United States National Parks, which I expected to find.

Thanks. (WT-en) Bill in STL 22:33, 1 August 2010 (EDT)

I believe all travel topics should be linked from Travel topics. If you see any that are definitely missing, feel free to add them. However, if they are stubs or outlines and haven't been edited for a year, you should nominate them for deletion. (WT-en) LtPowers 20:57, 2 August 2010 (EDT)

New Star Nomination - Magic Kingdom

Hi, folks. Just a pointer. Project:Star nominations#Walt Disney World/Magic Kingdom. Thanks in advance for comments, no matter how brief or critical! (WT-en) LtPowers 22:05, 3 August 2010 (EDT)

Error on main page?

The main page says "22 Sites Added to UNESCO World Heritage List (3 August 2010)". However, I believe the correct number is 21. See the unesco site . See the site cited in the entry on the main page . There were 890 last year, I believe they added 21, updated 8, for a total of 911. (WT-en) Bill in STL 01:03, 4 August 2010 (EDT)

Feel free to make the change; the UNESCO site does clearly say 21. (WT-en) LtPowers 08:05, 4 August 2010 (EDT)

My account has no privileges to make this change (too new). (WT-en) Bill in STL 11:24, 4 August 2010 (EDT)

Try clicking on the "View Source" tab for the main page and see if you're actually able to edit, or else try going to the "History" tab for the main page and see if you then get an "Edit" tab. Occasionally there are caching issues on protected pages such that the view that's shown, even for logged-in users, is the view that an anonymous user would see. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 12:29, 4 August 2010 (EDT)

I tried purging the page. When I went to source, it also said page is locked. When I went to History, it gave me "Source" not "Edit" tab. Based on comments I read earlier on Project:Protected_page_policy#Talk:Travel_topics, I thought the protection was for non auto-confirmed users rather than just anonymous. That would include my new account. (WT-en) Bill in STL 13:20, 4 August 2010 (EDT)

Sorry, you're right. The "protect" interface says "block unregistered users", but the actual protection that gets applied is for non-autoconfirmed users. Sorry for the confusion. I'll update the main page with the corrected numbers. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 13:26, 4 August 2010 (EDT)

GPS & KML Stuff

The "See" section is nice, but perhaps we could include a section with some KML files with GPS information on how to reach some destinations, and perhaps showing live in google maps.

What do you think ? (WT-en) WindowsNT 14:26, 4 August 2010 (EDT)

Question about Russian teaching

There's a list at Teaching_English#Teaching_other_languages of organisations various governments run to teach their languages & promote their culture abroad. I've done a bit of searching but cannot find one for Russian. Is there one? (WT-en) Pashley 21:53, 11 August 2010 (EDT)

(commenting by request from my User talk:) I'm not any sort of expert, so I referred to and from there to and .

Scanning the above links, I only found which doesn't seem to have a huge geography presence, according to . --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 16:19, 16 August 2010 (EDT)

Get in - is this good English?

A great site that I've just discovered but I was a bit taken aback by "Get in" as a title. Is that American English? "Getting there" is what is used in British English. Get in is what we say to a dog or naughty child. If there is one title I would like to change it would be that one! Wouldn't it be better to use the same terms that are commonly used by travel agents such as "Getting around". I'm not being pedantic. On a worldwide website the language should be as commonly used as possible - a kind of International English in effect. I will never teach my English students that "Get in" is acceptable English in this context nor would I teach them to use similar headings for a Travel site. for anyone who writes for a living or who teaches English the tiles are a real shock to my aesthetic system! —The preceding comment was added by 94.194.91.5 (talk • contribs)

I wouldn't know if it's American or British, but the titles refer to how you Get in to the city, and then how you Get around the city. Travel writing is typically informal, so whether or not it's proper academic English isn't really the guiding principal here. All the section titles are meant to be short and snappy - something which anyone could figure out what they mean the first time they read them - it may have the drawback of sounding stern; people have also commented on how See, Do, Sleep, and especially Get out sound rather commanding, but if you can tell what it means, I'd say it's doing the job. As a side note - this has been discussed at incredibly great length elsewhere on this site, such as here, so I would look there to get a fuller grasp of the argument - you'll likely find opinions far more informed and convincing than mine. (WT-en) PerryPlanet ^Talk 12:42, 10 August 2010 (EDT)

The other main argument is that it's part of our branding; we don't want to sound like other travel sites and sources. Not exactly like them, anyway. When you see "Get in" and "See" and "Do", you know it's Wikivoyage. (WT-en) LtPowers 15:31, 10 August 2010 (EDT)

There is absolutely no such thing as "correct English". You, as an English teacher, should know that. Read some Bill Bryson. --(WT-en) TrekkingTurtle 19:19, 9 October 2010 (EDT)

"Get In" should be "Get In and Out"

The "Get In" and "Get Out" sections are poorly named I feel. In reality the "Get In" sections have all the information on "getting in" AND "getting out" of the destination. The "Get Out" section is really just suggestions to the traveller for the next destination. I would guess that this has been discussed before, but it is still a problem IMO. It may not feel like a big issue for people who are seasoned users and contributors to WT, because we are all used to it so there is no confusion. But put yourself in the position of a new user or contributor, and it is very misleading. If I was someone who had never seen WT before and I was trying to work out how to catch a train out of Paris (for example) I might go down to the "Get Out" section where I would just see a list of 8 other destinations. Not much help....how do I know that the information is actually contained in the "Get In" section? Why don't we rename the sections to "Get In / Get Out" and "Next Destination" or something like this?(WT-en) Lturner 12:00, 11 August 2010 (EDT)

Please discuss this at Project:Article templates#Get out, again, but read the existing discussions that are linked from there first. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 12:57, 11 August 2010 (EDT)

Thanks, will do. (WT-en) Lturner 15:30, 11 August 2010 (EDT)

User:Mariborko

A couple of days ago, User:(WT-en) Mariborko uploaded a slew (as in well over 100) images to Wikivoyage Shared. User:(WT-en) Dguillaime discovered several of them were copyvios, and none of them come with a source. We're likely to delete them all.

The problem is that Mariborko replaced a lot of existing images here on en.wikivoyage with the uploaded images. I would ask for opinions on whether we should just go through and mass-revert these image additions and replacements. Sadly, it may require examining each edit in turn, as Mariborko also had text contributions.

Thoughts on what we should do here?

-- (WT-en) LtPowers 15:39, 12 August 2010 (EDT)

Sounds like the same type of thing that happened in the "Crafty Hungarian Vandal" section above (except the replacements are not offensive). Reverting all of the images sounds like the best option. The user should not be replacing other images, even if his/her pictures are not copywritten and with the "guilty until proven innocence" policy regarding these sorts of violations, the user is currently guilty. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 15:50, 12 August 2010 (EDT)

User:(WT-en) JanezDemsar rightly challenged most parts of the text by Mariborko as it in general violates several policies (e.g. Obvious, tone) and it includes some nonsense as well. I suggest to undo the pictures and may also revert the text, if not Janez has already deleted/changed it. (WT-en) jan 05:33, 13 August 2010 (EDT)

guide* templates

Is there a help page which indicates which records should have the templates Cityguide, Regionguide, Parkguide, Districtguide, Countryguide, Stateguide, Continentalsectionguide, Continentguide? These are the record type templates, not the record status templates. There were 49 with Stateguide (Vermont's not a state?), but should this be assigned to Washington DC, Puerto Rico, etc? The Countryguide appears to be assigned to about half the countries. I found the Project:RDF Expedition/Place type, but it just lists them, it does not describe them. Thanks. (WT-en) Bill in STL 00:06, 16 August 2010 (EDT)

Shared

Hey, I don't mean to whine, but edits like this make me very frustrated. The reason this user sees my name over and over again on project:Votes for deletion is because it seems like I'm the only one patrolling new uploads. (Thanks, though, to D. Guillaime, who did recently take note of one user's prodigious copyvios before I spotted them.) As this user noted, it makes me look like a real Negative Nelly, or even a copyright Nazi, when I'm the only one submitting and commenting on VfDs. If anyone has some free time, it'd be a big help to go over and take a look at some recent uploads and comment on a few VfDs. I'd greatly appreciate it. (WT-en) LtPowers 14:55, 16 August 2010 (EDT)

Your vfd work is very much appreciated, and I think the main reason why most do not draw attention is simply because other contributors see that you have a good handle on it—and that most of the vfds are straightforward. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 20:54, 16 August 2010 (EDT)

It would be nice if there were more contributors to this one as well . I think with a few more people we could reach a consensus and put it to rest.

There is not much to add to your conversation with the banana, since you said everything, but I can add support. On another note, some genderless people use the pronouns "Ze", "Zer", and "Zim" (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 23:12, 16 August 2010 (EDT)

The number of proposed genderless pronouns is so large that picking one and expecting it to be understood is an exercise in futility. =) (WT-en) LtPowers 10:03, 17 August 2010 (EDT)

IsPartOf updates?

Is there a programmed process which either corrects or at least identifies changes to regions which are included in IsPartOf templates on other pages?

When a region name is changed and the old name redirected, breadcrumb navigation no longer works for any page using the old name. The redirection does not affect the breadcrumb process, and the city or area loses its breadcrumb trail. For example, recently "Subcarpathian Voivodship" was changed to "Subcarpathia", and all cities in that region of Poland lost their breadcrumb link to their country and continent. So the breadcrumb for Solina became just

"Subcarpathian Voivodship : Solina" instead of "Europe : Central Europe : Poland : Lesser Poland : Subcarpathia : Solina"

For this region, I manually updated all the IsPartOf links, but was that wasted effort? This region had about 20 pages to be changed. If there is not an automated process, should the Rename a page help text be updated to request the person renaming to look for and update IsPartOf links? --(WT-en) Bill in STL 00:02, 22 August 2010 (EDT)

Updating "isPartOf" tends to be a manual process. It would be good to collect together a list of these sorts of items - broken "isPartOf", url tags without "http://", etc and create a task to write a JanitorBot or something similar that can go through the site and make appropriate updates. Looking through our pages related to scripts, Project:Script policy might be a good place for that discussion. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 00:27, 22 August 2010 (EDT)

Blocked in India

Got this mail just now:

I had been a regular visitor to wikivoyage.org but as of late, I am unable to access these websites from India. I know my company firewall is not blocking these websites as I am not even able to access these sites back from home. Anywhere we can get help?

Anybody else having problems? (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:15, 24 August 2010 (EDT)

London 2012 Olympics

I have created a London 2012 template and added it to the London page. This is based on the FIFA2010 soccer template. The official logos are legally unavailable to us, so it is straight text. If someone can devise a legal graphic, that would be great. Based on the FIFA template, I left room for up to five stadiums in the town. London has about 12 areas, should we list them all? That makes for a long box, but only on that one page. The other nine cities each have one stadium or other location. Pending comment, I have only added it to London so far; it should be added to the other dozen cities/districts if ok.

The London 2012 article could also use some work, if anyone's looking for an article to update. --(WT-en) Bill in STL 20:24, 27 August 2010 (EDT)

The copyright on the five-ring Olympic flag design expired in 2007, if it was ever even eligible for copyright protection in the first place. I would suggest using that. (WT-en) LtPowers 09:02, 28 August 2010 (EDT)

Site maintenance

This is to inform you that we will be conducting server maintenance for Wikivoyage next Tuesday September 14 between 10:00 PM and 3:00 AM PST. The entire site may be down during this time period.

We apologize for any inconvenience, and appreciate your understanding. (WT-en) IBsteph 6:06 PM, 9 September 2010 (PST)

Thanks for the advance heads up. We'll be sure to put up a site notice prior to the outage. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 21:40, 9 September 2010 (EDT)

Does the downtime begin on Tuesday, or end on Tuesday? (WT-en) LtPowers 21:50, 9 September 2010 (EDT)

I'm guessing it's safe to assume it begins Tuesday, and have changed the sitenotice accordingly. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 23:48, 12 September 2010 (EDT)

Does anyone know what was changed? We still seem to be on a very old version of Mediawiki, and I don't notice anything that's visually different. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 11:11, 15 September 2010 (EDT)

It'll be down for a lot longer then 5 hours if they decide to upgrade MediaWiki. My guess is this was a hardware upgrade or replacement. Or maybe just a reboot. (WT-en) LtPowers 14:05, 15 September 2010 (EDT)

Star Nomination for a major theme park in Florida

Please comment on the star nomination for Walt Disney World, at Project:Star nominations#Walt Disney World. Thanks! (WT-en) LtPowers 21:52, 12 September 2010 (EDT)

Have still gotten very few comments on what could be a precedent-setting star article. If this is promoted, it will serve as the exemplar for any future articles on large tourist attractions. Please, lend your opinion, even if it's negative. (WT-en) LtPowers 10:52, 28 September 2010 (EDT)

Odd bug

Anyone seen behavior like this before? It looks like someone used the listing editor to edit an entry in the Eat section, and it overwrote an HTML comment in the Sleep section. View the next three edits for more weirdness. (WT-en) LtPowers 18:14, 15 September 2010 (EDT)

IB (and hence Wikivoyage) being bought by private equity firm

Also, of interest: Internet Brands to be acquired for $640 mln (WT-en) Rezendi 17:11, 20 September 2010 (EDT)

I'll give this a tentative "great!" Neglect is unlikely to increase, and I suppose we can guess that future abuse will be less likely. Basically, I'm all for changing management of our hosts. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 17:34, 25 September 2010 (EDT)

Having worked for two companies that were bought by private equity companies, I'm less optimistic. Though, ownerships of Getty Images and Webreservations International could potentially be interesting. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) ^talk 18:07, 25 September 2010 (EDT)

TIME Magazine

Hello Peeps, we will be in the September 27th issue of Time Magazine; , pretty solid article although it revolves around two of our dearly departed. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) ^talk 17:40, 24 September 2010 (EDT)

I failed to find the author's edit in Bruges, however (looked through latest 50 edits). --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 04:22, 25 September 2010 (EDT)

Star nomination for Kununurra

This article is soon to be up as an OTBP feature and is close to being a star article. It would be nice if the two could coincide and we have it as a star when on the front page. Please make some comments at Project:Star nominations#Kununurra to push it over the line. Thanks. (WT-en) Cardboardbird 04:13, 26 September 2010 (EDT)

Thanks to those who have commented and/or made edits recently. All of the suggestions have been addressed now, so if your initial thought was almost you might like to take another look. - (WT-en) Cardboardbird 05:56, 28 September 2010 (EDT)

Hi! I think it is up for star now as Stefan, Claus and myself have changed from almost to support. Let's wait until the weekend for responses but afterward you can take the honour and change it to star. (WT-en) jan 07:40, 28 September 2010 (EDT)

Travel to 3rd World for teens?

Some pretty awesome, third-world travel adventures for high schoolers, led by former Peace Corps voluteers is WHERE THERE BE DRAGONS, based in Boulder, CO. They take students to any of 10-15 countries.

Unclear as to whether/how to include them in Wikivoyage. I have a granddaughter who has been once to rural Thailand and twice to Senegal with that group. Very responsible and very well run. Very strict codes of behavior, etc.

Since Wikivoyage is focused on specific destinations, this may be out of bounds but maybe not? Who knows? As a travel info Wiki there could/should be some way of handling this useful information. Yes? (WT-en) Frnkatca 16:08, 3 October 2010 (EDT)

This type of thing may be covered by Travel topics. Take a look and see if what you have in mind would fit into this category. -- (WT-en) Peter (Southwood) ^Talk 09:53, 4 October 2010 (EDT)

Does or could Gap year travel cover what you are interested in? (WT-en) Pashley 21:11, 30 October 2010 (EDT)

New ads

IB finally put forth the intended style for new ads. Please have a look at wts:Talk:Advertising policy#New Monetization Effort. – (WT-en) Vidimian 06:07, 7 October 2010 (EDT)

Failing Collaborations

After almost 4 months of non-collaboration on Toronto, I just changed it to Mauritius. I haven't really had the chance to look over the tasks, but the concern was that there was too little to do. Well, being that the month is half over, I thought it could be the perfect October CotM. Hopefully we can get at least some of the tasks completed and begin reviving the collaboration project. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 05:15, 12 October 2010 (EDT)

User:(WT-en) Wrh2 blocked?

(WT-en) Ryan says that his home IP address has been blocked from editing Wikivoyage, and IB has been unresponsive to his questions. Obviously, this is totally unacceptable. Anyone know what's going on? (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 22:09, 12 October 2010 (EDT)

I finally got a response - my IP address was blocked from accessing all Internet Brands sites by one of their automated tools, apparently due to a bot that I run to spider Wikivoyage. The bot complies with Project:Terms of use but was apparently the cause of the problem (I'm awaiting clarification as to what specifically triggered the block). In fairness to IB, Kevin Hayes fixed the problem relatively quickly after I was finally able to get a response. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 16:02, 13 October 2010 (EDT)

Why?

Unable to use Regionlist template in Wikivoyage/fr

Hi all,

I would like to use the Regionlist template in Wikivoyage/fr but it seems unknown there. How can we export a template from one wikivoyage language version to another? Do we need special admin rights?

I had a look at Template:Regionlist and Project:Using_Mediawiki_templates but found nothing.

More generally, how do we create/manage/edit/rename templates in one language version? The stub template for an article in WT:en has been translated into bouchon in WT:fr and should really be renamed into ébauche.

Thanks for your help! (WT-en) Joelf 21:43, 16 October 2010 (EDT)

Hi Joelf, I have made templates and no special admin rights are needed.

The easiest way to do what you want would be to copy the source text of the regionlist tenplate, and paste it into a new article in template namespace with the appropriate name on fr, then translate it bit by bit until it is as you want it. I dont think I have forgotten anything critical. It is useful to other users if you add an explanation of how and where to use the template somewhere. Cheers, (WT-en) Peter (Southwood) ^Talk 01:46, 18 October 2010 (EDT)

Got it! Pretty simple indeed, cf: fr:Amérique du Sud. Thanks a lot Peter. (WT-en) Joelf 01:01, 19 October 2010 (EDT)

Images from Wikimedia Commons

I'm an en:wikipedia admin and very active there; while I find Wikivoyage useful, I'm not sufficiently interested to become active here. As such, I'm curious — is there any way that images at the Wikimedia Commons can be used here without being re-uploaded? I find that there are plenty of guides here that could better be illustrated with images from Commons. 69.136.6.110 19:53, 1 November 2010 (EDT)

I understand that the newest versions of the MediaWiki software will allow that, but the version we're using does not. I agree it would be very useful. (WT-en) LtPowers 09:43, 3 November 2010 (EDT)

I kind of like having a limited number of Wikipedia images on Wikivoyage, because I think it looks bad/boring/overdone/not "fresh" when the same pictures used in the Wikipedia articles are used on Wikivoyage. I've stumbled upon pictures I recognize from Wikivoyage on Wikipedia and it's kind of dissapointing seeing that ours are the same and kind of makes good pictures look dull, because I know I've seen the same thing elsewhere. This may be a minority opinion, though. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 18:43, 3 November 2010 (EDT)

I agree with (WT-en) LtPowers it would be useful. There are many images there that are not currently in use on WP. WT articles could benefit from easy access to them. The existing process of downloading the image, copying the commons info and then uploading to WT is laborious and very clunky. Using the same images in WT and WP articles is not so good though unless it is a very important or iconic image having significance to the subject of the article. (WT-en) felix 07:11, 4 November 2010 (EDT)

For the vast majority of destinations, there are very few free images available. The choice is usually between not having an image at all or going with one from Commons (which may or may not be in use on the English Wikipedia). If those are the choices, we should go with having an image, no matter where it came from, IMO. (WT-en) LtPowers 09:25, 4 November 2010 (EDT)

Sometimes it's possible to find beautiful pictures we could use to illustrate our guides on Wikipedia articles that are remotely related to the Wikivoyage guide in question, so users clicking on Wikipedia link from our guides won't be disappointed by being welcomed to the article on the same place with the same photo. For example, I've put this photo at our Altai Republic guide (which it makes most sense, anyway), but found it on Wikipedia article about Altaic languages, which is barely if ever related to Altai Republic (although I should admit that it's also linked from Altai Mountains article, but that's still not equivalent to our Republic guide). – (WT-en) Vidimian 12:54, 4 November 2010 (EDT)

And I should also add that, I'd prefer former rather than the latter at "any photo vs no photo" comparison. When adding pictures (or any other stuff as far as I can think of), Wikivoyage articles should be considered stand-alone guides, with keeping users with no access (or no desire) to click those Wikipedia links in mind. – (WT-en) Vidimian 13:04, 4 November 2010 (EDT)

I agree with (WT-en) LtPowers as well, sounds like a useful option. The current process is rather tedious and time-consuming. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 13:17, 4 November 2010 (EDT)

I think a lot of good points are made for the Wikipedia photos, especially for those that are good but unused on Wikipedia. On the other hand, having no photos encourages users on Wikivoyage to upload their own, new images while having WP photos probably discourages that, because users may feel there is no point in uploading an image if the article is already filled with pictures. Unfortunately pictures from users come slowly, since new users come slowly and may not even get a shared account. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 03:11, 5 November 2010 (EDT)

Statistics

I think it would be encouraging if statistics about wikivoyage usage would be visible. Funny to see that pages you have written is read. 95.209.70.145 06:02, 11 November 2010 (EST)

There used to be. I've asked if another user knows of anything. -- (WT-en) Sapphire • (Talk) • 08:06, 11 November 2010 (EST)

Yes i was actually just wondering that, I remember that there used to be at the bottom of the page a listing of how many people have viewed that paticular page, lets bring it back please someone help —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Ralphmiester (talk • contribs)

Search down?

Searches in English don't seem to be working, and haven't been for at least a day. Curiously, other languages seem fine. Anybody know why, or when it might be fixed? (I'm gettin' mail from frustrated app users - iTravelFree currently uses the built-in search facilities.) (WT-en) Rezendi 08:41, 13 November 2010 (EST)

Star nominations page empty!

With the promotion of Diving the Cape Peninsula and False Bay there are no longer any star nominations in process. Time for a new nomination anyone? Cheers, • • • (WT-en) Peter (Southwood) ^Talk 11:58, 28 November 2010 (EST)

Search still down?

Have English-language searches really been broken for three weeks without IB seeming to notice or care, or am I missing something?

I tweaked iTravelFree to use Bing instead, that's working fine, but if so, I'm more than a little astonished by the intensity of neglect. (WT-en) Rezendi 19:46, 2 December 2010 (EST)

Yes, 'intensity of neglect' is a good phrase. I presume you have emailed IB on the issue, expecting them to read anything here is presuming too much. --(WT-en) inas 21:03, 2 December 2010 (EST)

Have you seen the number of open Tech requests on Shared, Rezendi? (WT-en) LtPowers 21:20, 2 December 2010 (EST)

For issues like this one you might try the tech at wikivoyage.org email address. My experience has been that they respond about a third of the time, so if you don't hear back in 24 hours try again. And if you do get a response, you might also try getting their attention about addressing the spam problems on Arabic Wikivoyage. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 21:39, 2 December 2010 (EST)

Update: I emailed tech at wikivoyage.org yesterday, and while I received no response, English-language searches are now working again. (WT-en) Rezendi 13:43, 4 December 2010 (EST)

Sue Gardner: "Wikivoyage is a great site"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11894901 (3:40) -- (WT-en) LtPowers 15:38, 7 December 2010 (EST)

Anyone else noticing that breadcrumbs are being particularly obstinate lately? I'm getting awfully tired of having to go down the hierarchy purging the cache repeatedly. (WT-en) LtPowers 11:36, 13 December 2010 (EST)

Yes, I've noticed the same thing. --(WT-en) inas 16:59, 13 December 2010 (EST)

Just came to the pub to ask about the same issue. There's no sense to it. For example, Scotland is showing just United Kingdom: Scotland at the top of the page, whereas England shows Europe: Britain and Ireland: United Kingdom: England. The IsPartOf seems to be identical on both pages but for some reason isn't returning the same result! (WT-en) Tarr3n 09:21, 16 December 2010 (EST)

Well we know it's a caching issue, and you can fix it by purging the cache on each affected page, starting at the top of the hierarchy and working your way down. But we're not sure why the cache has such problems. (WT-en) LtPowers 15:44, 16 December 2010 (EST)

Yes, it's been really bad lately and takes up a lot of time to keep fixing them. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 22:02, 6 January 2011 (EST)

Automatic section renaming

Hi all, I'm trying to homogenize the section names on French WT according to article templates. Is there any way, admin tool or other, to do a global search/replace on articles and modify several of them in a quick manner? Thanks for your help. (WT-en) Joelf 20:44, 21 December 2010 (EST)

There is no built-in feature of MediaWiki that could do that. You would need to run a script (or "bot") on your computer that could automate the task. (WT-en) LtPowers 10:00, 22 December 2010 (EST)

Thanks. Is there a help page or anybody who could give me a code sample? Especially for connection settings. I've understood that some of you did that kind of job to rename english sections. (WT-en) Joelf 19:27, 22 December 2010 (EST)

transport fares

We've had Naked Bus in NZ advertise $1 fares all over the NZ pages for ages, now I've noticed a few similar promotions in other cities. The $1 fares aren't a scam. They do sell a single $1 fare for one seat on each bus, and if you search their website a few months out on popular routes it isn't hard to find one of the $1 fares. Still, it hardly seems useful to the traveller, who gets no idea of the bus fare between two locations, because they just see "fares from $1". My inclination is just to remove the pricing... any other ideas without writing a mini-essay on bus fares in each article? --(WT-en) inas 18:02, 22 December 2010 (EST)

Changing A User Name

Is it possible to change a user name? If so, how may it be done? More specifically, I got the usernames mixed up when I registered. I am an American Peace Corps volunteer working for Nature Park Bulgarka. This account should have my usual username of "RobertSullivan1973" and not to "NatureParkBulgarka" Thank you. (WT-en) NatureParkBulgarka 09:14, 28 December 2010 (EST)

Please leave a message on my talk page or on User talk:(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald confirming the new name that you want and either of us can change it. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 11:50, 28 December 2010 (EST)

Site very slow

Hello,

Coming back after a long time, I find it very slow. With the site having ads now, there shouldn't be any problem to have more or faster servers. I am quite disappointed. (WT-en) Yann 11:24, 28 December 2010 (EST)

You would think not. However, Internet Brands don't read here, so an email to them may be the best thing. --(WT-en) inas 04:19, 7 January 2011 (EST)