MediaWiki talk:Blockedtext

The text

Can you change the Blockedtext to this:

You are currently unable to edit Wikivoyage. Your username or IP address ($7) was blocked until $6 by $1 because: $2 If $7 is not blocked, $3 may have been blocked. What is a block? A block is a measure used to protect Wikivoyage from vandalism or misuse. They can be temporary or indefinite. If you were blocked because of another user on this IP address, it is possible that you were autoblocked. If your username doesn't meet our username policy, you may create a new account with a username that meets out username policy. Alternatively, you can request a change of username. What can I do? Email $1 Add Template:Unblock to your talk page What can I do?

Faster than Thunder (talk) 23:50, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

I prefer the current one, and to change it, there needs to be consensus to change it. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:54, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Also, Template:Unblock is not a thing here. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 05:21, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

Wording

"This block was made by $1."

Does that mention the username of whoever blocked the user in question? If so, why do we want to include that? I would suggest removing it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:10, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

Yes, and I wouldn't suggest removing that because

1. keeping it does little harm
2. the blocked user can still see who blocked them if they go to Special:Contributions/[blocked user] or Special:Blocklist

If we absolutely want to change it, I suppose c:MediaWiki:Blockedtext is a good example and while it does still mention the name of the blocking admin, it doesn't stand out. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:16, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

We don't want people to think they can resolve their problem just by addressing the person who blocked them, and though they can find out the name of the blocker, making it even easier by directly providing it to them makes it easier for them to attempt to harass the individual in question. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:19, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

We do have to remember, that not everyone who's blocked has done something wrong. I can't edit any WMF project in my local library because of a global block on that IP range, where I was autoblocked although this was back in June. Those people who are caught up in such blocks would ideally want to contact the blocking admin so they can get something sorted out. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:28, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

True. There was one time when I blocked the wrong person, who was cleaning up the vandalism rather than committing it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:42, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

If SelfieCity weren't an admin, nor have global IPBE or local IPBE, they may still be in that situation of being caught up in a block where they did nothing wrong. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 21:45, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Yeah. On balance, I think we should keep the usernames in the template. I'm not sure a direct email link is a great idea, though. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 21:58, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

I have emails from Wikivoyage automatically go to my spam folder because most of them are from one deranged individual, so unless I'm expecting an email, I usually miss it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:05, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

I just disable emails from newbies aka non-autoconfirmed users. Ideally global IP blocks should also be sorted out at VRT, but VRT members can't add global IPBE unless they're also a steward. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:19, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

vfd

MediaWiki:Blockedtext

What is the point of this it was created by an admin in 2009 so it probably served a purpose at one point but I’m unsure why this would ever be used as this is a non-profit. An ip has been pasting this into many user pages also. Can I speedy if there is no current. Tai123.123 (talk) 03:46, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Delete. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:10, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

• Speedy keep (I cannot reiterate this enough). When a user is blocked and they try to edit, this notice comes up (based on tests I've done). Pages in the Mediawiki namespace should never be deleted unless there's a compelling reason for doing so. And x-wiki vandals/LTAs aren't a reason for doing so. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 05:25, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

  Ok thanks, I want sure if it had a use. Why are the dollar signs there though. Also it should probably be moved out of main space. Tai123.123 (talk) 06:46, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

  It's a technical aspect of the MediaWiki namespace (it's not in the mainspace). Usually, it's replaced with the necessary info so $1 would be the name of the blocking admin, $2 would be the reason, $3 is the IP address of the user/IP that's blocked etc. It's not in mainspace though. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:56, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

  Ok, thank you. Also should it be moved out of main space. Tai123.123 (talk) 15:29, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

  It's not in mainspace. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 19:31, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

  Isn't in mainspace. If you paste it into the search bar it comes up Tai123.123 (talk) 20:41, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

  Every page comes up in the search bar, including pages in the Special namespace (which we cannot change nor modify). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:38, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

• Keep per SHB2000. —Granger (talk · contribs) 05:39, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
• Delete. When a MediaWiki page is deleted, the default version from the software is shown instead, and in this case they seem to be identical (see translatewiki:MediaWiki:Blockedtext/en). Only when we have project specific needs, or some improvement isn't done soon enough system-wide, one should have one locally. Things changed at some point (I don't remember details); it is very possible that the page was useful when it was created. –LPfi (talk) 07:25, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

I'm inclined to agree with LPfi here, but should we check with the software maintainers first? If so, how? Pashley (talk) 08:56, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

@LPfi: But if we do ever need to edit it though, it would show the default, but we'd need to re-create it to edit it. And if it's not needed, I think it automatically gets deleted. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:06, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Recreating it is hardly an issue; only admins can edit it anyway. The problem is finding the right page and the meaning of the pre-set numbered parameters, but that should be handled by a help page in the Wikivoyage namespace, instead of copying every MediaWiki page to here. Pages don't get automatically deleted – unnecessary ones get deleted from the software, not from here. I am pretty sure it is safe to delete pages like this; we could check Wikipedia or MediaWiki instructions. –LPfi (talk) 10:03, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Looking at the edit summary when it was created ("fix link -- we don't keep an up to date list of admins outside of special:listadmins") it appears to have been created due to a problem with the standard message displaying the list of admins. It may be that was only an issue on the old servers, but that should be checked. AlasdairW (talk) 15:48, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Ah! that difference remains, in addition to minor wording differences. The default page uses [[{{MediaWiki:Grouppage-sysop}}]] (Wikivoyage:Administrators) for the link on administrators, while our version uses Special:Listadmins. The default also uses {{int:emailuser}} (Email this user) instead of "email this user". I don't know whether it is worse to direct a blocked user to a page on administrators instead of the list of administrators. If we are to keep it, we should think about what we rally want to tell. Writing on one's talk page isn't mentioned as an option, so most blocked users would need to register an e-mail address to be able to contact any of us. –LPfi (talk) 16:08, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

I think we should create some page such as "Help! I've been blocked" or something similar to that, similar to what Wikipedia does giving advice for blocked users to contact an admin. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:15, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

After some searching, it seems MediaWiki default automatically deletes them if needed. I guess this wasn't one of them. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:09, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

We want blocked users to contact us because? The answer is, don't block their user talk page unless they are spambots, vandalism-only accounts or advertising-only accounts or otherwise permanently banned, and let them appeal on their user talk page if they like. Admins do not unilaterally unblock users because of private communications from them, and I would oppose allowing that in any way. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:02, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Neither the current nor the default text says anything about using the talk page. Time for a rewrite? I agree that spamming admins by e-mail is not something we want to encourage. –LPfi (talk) 08:38, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

No, and some like me have disabled emails from newbies globally (and most of those that get blocked are not autoconfirmed). We could also have an "unblock" template, similar to {{blocked}} except the opposite, which populates a category somewhat like what Wikipedia does. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:01, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

I now rewrote the message. Did I get it right? If we want such a different message, then the local message should obviously be kept. –LPfi (talk) 15:15, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

The text is better, so I'm no longer sure I support deletion, but could someone please explain why we'd want to use this template? Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:23, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

This is not a template. This is the text that would appear if you're blocked and try to edit. If you want to see how it's used, test it on a test account. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:02, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

I see. In that case, I support retaining the page and will discuss details of the wording in its talk page. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:07, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

---

Outcome: Kept. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:37, 18 December 2021 (UTC)