Talk:Cooch Behar

OK to link to?

About this edit:

2faast.com is a general restaurant delivery site. Is it OK to link to them if that's the best place to find out information about a restaurant? What do you all think, keeping in mind what not to link to but also the traveller comes first? I should add, I looked at Hotel Ellora's website, and while a "multi-cuisine restaurant" is mentioned, there doesn't appear to be a way to look at any page about if from that site, at least on Firefox. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:46, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

I don't know to be fair and I get the same sentiments as you. I'm also having that same issue from Chrome. I'll try safari in a moment, but otherwise we'll have to look at it from archive.org. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:51, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

To be clear, I live in Cooch Behar. The website of Hotel Ellora does not have a separate page for their restaurant. So 2 faast is the closet we can get to the restaurant. 2006nishan178713 (talk) 08:09, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

About what fraction of the patrons at the restaurant do you suppose are guests at the hotel or people meeting other people who are staying at the hotel? I'm having trouble taking a restaurant seriously if even the hotel where it's located refuses to do anything practical to promote it, but since you live there, I defer to your expertise and experience. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:06, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

In our region, most businesses are not that eager to develop their websites and update them time to time. 2006nishan178713 (talk) 09:16, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

ok, but this one doesn't seem so. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:21, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

OK, but what about my question about their patronage? Do a lot of locals go to eat at that restaurant? Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:52, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

Yes, Restaurant Tara and Restaurant Monarch are like the Top-class restaurants in the city. Restaurant Tara mainly attracts guests of Hotel Ellora. 2006nishan178713 (talk) 19:18, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

Restaurant Monarch is great at customer service and Restaurant Tara has a bar, so typical Indian families prefer restaurant monarch 2006nishan178713 (talk) 19:21, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

Based on what you're saying, Monarch should be listed separately, with a pointer to the "Eat" section from the hotel listing, and Tara should be described in the listing for the hotel. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:08, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

That would be good 2006nishan178713 (talk) 03:32, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

Redirect

@Ikan Kekek, @SHB2000. Is it necessary to put a redirection to Cooch Behar when Cooch Behar Sadar is clicked?? 2006nishan178713 (talk) 06:41, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

I wouldn't think so. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:46, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

Okay 2006nishan178713 (talk) 08:15, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

@Ikan Kekek Any comments or suggestions on the Dinhata guide? 2006nishan178713 (talk) 08:27, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

It's arguably usable already, depending on how the word "directions" in Wikivoyage:City article status is interpreted. It needs images, and I unfortunately had to delete the one that was already there because watermarks aren't allowed per image policy. I'd also recommend zooming the map so that the locations of the points of interest in the city centre are independently viewable, with Gosanimari Rajpat not viewable unless the map is clicked, but I don't know whether there will be other outlying points of interest you plan on adding. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:12, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

There are no more things that I would add. Yes, Gosanimari Rajpat won't be visible if it is zoomed in. 2006nishan178713 (talk) 18:58, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

Districts

I don't see the need to have a "Districts" section. If there are important things to say about districts from a visitor's standpoint, create a subsection in "Understand", with a brief explanation of how they are different, what landmarks they have and why you would want to visit or avoid each one. "Districts" sections and individual district articles are for huge cities like Delhi and Mumbai. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:44, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

Probably yes. I have fixed it now. 2006nishan178713 (talk) 19:03, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. But is Dinhata a region of the city or a suburb? "In the south of the main city" means within the city in American English, but I think it means the same in Indian English as "to the south" means in American English - in other words, beyond city limits to the south. Also, if district articles are not envisioned, there shouldn't be red-linked non-articles, and we don't want colors unless a district map is envisioned. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:42, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

Actually, in India the administrative divisions work like this- first there is a state which in this case is West bengal. A state has many districts so Cooch Behar is a district and a district has many cities in it so Dinhata is a city. 2006nishan178713 (talk) 03:17, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Also I aim to create one guide about the red linked cities per day. 2006nishan178713 (talk) 03:18, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

I see. So ultimately, this should be a region article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:43, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

No!! This is not a region. The region for Cooch Behar is North Bengal. 2006nishan178713 (talk) 04:20, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

We call it a subdivision. This might help- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subdivision_(India) 2006nishan178713 (talk) 04:22, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

But when we normally speak to each other we mention small cities like Dinhata as just "city" rather than subdivision. But officially it is a subdivision city.... 2006nishan178713 (talk) 04:25, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

For the purposes of Wikivoyage, not official Indian government purposes, if it's a district whose constituent parts are cities, it's a region. The other option is a districted city. The difference is between Wikivoyage:Region article template and Wikivoyage:Huge city article template. It's not a problem to call Cooch Behar a district and its constituent cities subdivisions, but either the region or huge city article template needs to be used. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:26, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Yeah! Got it. So what shall we use region or huge city. 2006nishan178713 (talk) 04:31, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Also it is the case with all other indian districts, so it wouldn't be feasible to make all of them a huge city. 2006nishan178713 (talk) 04:33, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

All other cities in the region are categorised as just 'city'. 2006nishan178713 (talk) 04:41, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Yes districts from an Indian administration perspective are close to the concept of counties in the US and would be either "regions" or "rural areas" here. If no cities from that district have their own article and all of the current listings are spread out across the district, it would be best treated as a rural area (like Janjgir in Chhatisgarh). If there are many cities in that district like Shimla (district) then it should be a region. When a city become very big on WV, it gets split into disctricts. Right now, only the biggest cities are split like that (Mumbai, Delhi, Kolkata, etc.). Based on Cooch Behar's population, it is unlikely to be split into further district articles (under Wikivoyage's article typology). Gizza ^(roam) 06:08, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

So, is the current version of the Cooch Behar guide alright? 2006nishan178713 (talk) 06:55, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Of course the work is incomplete, but I think we're both suggesting that a region article template is probably most appropriate to use - by analogy, when American counties get their own articles, they normally use region article templates, though there are exceptions, the most prominent one being Los Angeles, by which is usually meant the county, not the smaller (but still sizable) city. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:05, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

But if that's the case then all the Indian articles need to be changed as almost all Indian cities have subdivisions and it would break the flow of the 'part of' template. 2006nishan178713 (talk) 07:28, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

It's really whatever is most useful to the traveller. If you feel that it's most useful to think of the district of Cooch Behar as a districted city, I would tend to defer to you. Per w:Cooch Behar district, the total population of the district in the 2011 Census was 2,819,086, so on the basis of population, it wouldn't be at all crazy to imagine it as a districted city on Wikivoyage, depending on how many listings there are likely to be in each city/subdivision article. However, the district was described as 10.27% urban, so is it really analogous to a place like Philadelphia or Los Angeles? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:44, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

We cannot compare Cooch Behar or any of its subdivisions with Philadelphia or LA. 2006nishan178713 (talk) 07:55, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

If all of the subdivisions are created and filled with sufficient information and listings, then the subdivisions can be classified as "cities" and the main Cooch Behar article a region. This article will then become a general overview with much less emphasis on specific listings. Gizza ^(roam) 08:03, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Yes, then we can put the cities in a region like 'Cooch behar Region'. Similar to Philadelphia Region 2006nishan178713 (talk) 08:05, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Also most of the population live in the main city. The subdivisions are sparsely populated. 2006nishan178713 (talk) 08:04, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Districtification (If that's a word)

@SHB2000, shall I revert the all the districtification in this guide? 2006nishan178713^t@lk 09:57, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

I don't know. It's up to you, but since it's started, you may as well want to finish it off. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:08, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

The subdivisions are not that important as tourists are not fond of visiting the subdivisions as there's nothing much to see there. Even the locals living in the main city i.e. Cooch Behar don't visit the subdivisions for tourism but only for meeting relatives and stuff. So, I think this guide must only focus on Cooch Behar city instead of the including the subdivisions. What do you think about it? 2006nishan178713^t@lk 10:36, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Unless this article is severely underdeveloped, I doubt this 100k city is big or significant enough to justify districting: there are like 10 listings in each section, which is perfectly manageable for one article.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:13, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I too think the same, So we can revert the districtification? 2006nishan178713^t@lk 11:18, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Go for it. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:21, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

And should I put the sub division guides like Dinhata, Mathabhanga and Mekhliganj up for deletion? 2006nishan178713^t@lk 11:31, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Are those real places? Then no. What do you plan to do with the contents of those articles? Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:09, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Yes they are real places. Shall I put it for deletion? 2006nishan178713^t@lk 14:13, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

I said no. Merge and redirect as appropriate. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:14, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Okay, actually when you messaged here, I had already prepared the VFD topic. 2006nishan178713^t@lk 14:17, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

I will start to merge them 2006nishan178713^t@lk 14:19, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Great. You don't need to post merge notices, just go ahead and do it, and then turn each article whose content has been merged to another article into a redirect to the target article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:23, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Okay 2006nishan178713^t@lk 14:23, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

ATMs

The article says "There are many ATMs in and around the city on every corner." And then lists the locations of three of them. If they are on every corner, we probably don't need to list them, do we? Ground Zero (talk) 22:21, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

@Ground ZeroYes, we can delist them but the SBI e-corner is important as it offers all kinds of services as listed in the guide. 2006nishan178713^t@lk 02:59, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Done 2006nishan178713^t@lk 06:08, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Subdivisions?

The article says that Cooch Behar is a city. However, it lists the subdivisions of Cooch Behar district, an area larger than the city. What should we do with the subdivision list? Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 05:20, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

This issue was already discussed in previous discussions in this page. Subdivisions refers to parts of the city. 2006nishan178713^t@lk 06:19, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

I have read the discussion and it turns out that this article should be a rural area article rather than a city article like Prince Edward County in Canada. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 08:21, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

And also, at least in Wikivoyage terms, a rural area does not always mean a collection of villages. It may consist of cities and towns that may individually fail the test of WV:WIAA. Prince Edward County is a rural area but has urban centres. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 08:23, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

One thing to note, if you still insist to label it a city and not a rural area, you can still change the description of Cooch Behar from just "a city" to "a city and a district", like in Jhargram and convert the subdivision listings into paragraphs like in Kolkata/East. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 09:21, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

We need an article for Cooch Behar district as part of the Plains (North Bengal). The Plains (North Bengal) can be obsolete if every district of North Bengal gets an article. /Yvwv (talk) 09:02, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Only if we have 5–9 destinations per district as we generally do not split regions unless the number of destinations is high enough to make the split feasible. See WV:Geographical hierarchy. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 04:00, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Although there has been a discussion, the results were not satisfactory to a traveller's perspective. District subdivisions are administrative divisions that almost all travellers are unknown about. They might at least know that India is divided into 28 states and 8 union territories, and travellers from other parts of India might know that West Bengal, like the traveller's state, is split into districts. The only travellers that know the districts are split into subdivisions are from other parts of West Bengal. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 06:16, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Of course, you might argue that saying that in articles will solve this, but please ask yourself whether district subdivisions are really useful to travellers. To me, geographic regions are far more useful than administrative divisions. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 06:19, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

After looking at the existing listings, it turns out that some listings of Cooch Behar can be moved to dedicated city articles and for the Rasikbil Bird Sanctuary listing, it should be listed in the "Other destinations" section of Plains (North Bengal). Since no one has responded to my proposals, I will just plunge forward to shape the existing articles. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 15:33, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Removed irrelevant portions of stay safe section

Cooch Behar is not Delhi and the safety tips applicable to metropolitan cities like Delhi aren't applicable to tier-2 and tier-3 cities like Cooch Behar. Therefore, I've trimmed the "Stay safe" section by removing the paragraphs obviously copied from the Delhi article. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 18:37, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

If the safety tips are applicable to most destinations of West Bengal, we should add those tips at West Bengal#Stay safe. If they are applicable to most destinations of India, we should add them at India#Stay safe. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 18:40, 30 September 2022 (UTC)