Talk:Fujian

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Table[edit]

Err, do we really need a HTML table for the list of cities? It's somewhat daunting for new users to edit and I'm not sure what value it adds... (WT-en) Maj 15:21, 2 January 2007 (EST)

Is there a better way? Wiki markup table? I just used HTML because I know it. There's a something similar in Yangshuo article too. (WT-en) Pashley 23:13, 2 January 2007 (EST)
Changed it to a Wiki list. You're right, it is better this way. (WT-en) Pashley 04:14, 4 January 2007 (EST)

Moved festivals[edit]

I deleted the "festivals" section here and put the information in the China article. These are not unique to Fujian. (WT-en) Pashley 22:33, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

Style[edit]

Looks great! Nice work. (WT-en) Maj 00:45, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

Photos[edit]

I just deleted an entire section added by an anon user, links to photos:

This seemed useless to me (some nice shots, but much crud too) and, more important, it seemed to fall outside our "primary sources only" policy. Other opinions? (WT-en) Pashley 22:54, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

Other destinations[edit]

I've deleted a bunch of stuff there that described "attractions" rather than "destinations" in Wikivoyage terms — temples, parks, etc. Most were already covered in city articles and I moved others to the relevant city. Here's what's left over:

  • Zuo Hai Sea World, have the Museum of Tropical Rain Forests, Marine Museum, the performing Seals Museum, Museum of Underwater World, and a shopping center. The Sea World displayed a variety of more than 100 kinds of marine life, including ferocious great white shark, the gentle leopard sharks, the shark Fuji. There are colorful tropical fish, "Prince of Africa", "American Hua Mao", alligator, elephant fish, butterfly fish, and other rare species. It is one the unique large-scale underwater world in the southeast coast.
  • Yunlong Bridge is a spectacular covered bridge near Luofang (羅坊) in Liancheng County. It is over 300 years old and is in excellent condition. Just nearby there is a large statue of Mazu.
  • Forest Park, one of the nine forest parks in the country which is located in northern of the city. Its surrounded on three sides by mountains while the other faces the river. The entire park is divided into five parts: Mid-Asian tropical evergreen broadleaf tree region, South-Asian tropical jungle region, Banyan tree region, region of wild fruit trees in hilly country and off-shore r wood region. It also includes a rare botanical garden and a rose camellia garden.

These clearly don't belong here. Do they belong anywhere? (WT-en) Pashley 04:12, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

Map?[edit]

The current map is clearly wrong, or at least misplaced. It depicts the position of Fujian within China but is titled "Regions of Fujian". Ideally, I suppose we'd have both. At any rate, we need a map that actually shows the regions.

However, a quick check on Commons does not show a regions map and I do not know how to import the one from WT. Any volunteers to fix this? Pashley (talk) 04:01, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Please don't do anything in cases like this. The map is on Wts and either has been moved to Commons or will be moved to Commons later. All of these problems will be handled by the "move to Commons" process eventually. --Stefan2 (talk) 13:27, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
Does this still apply? Pashley (talk) 22:43, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
It has now been fixed. Thanks, Peter. Pashley (talk) 03:55, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Pagebanner[edit]

Joe young yu substituted this banner:

New banner

This was the banner:

Old banner

My feeling is, the new banner is sharper but the old banner is more unusual and distinctive, so I mildly prefer to restore it. What do you think, and why? Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:59, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

I prefer the old one. Pashley (talk) 10:33, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
Any other opinions? I think we should revert the substitution within 24 hours or less if there is no objection. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:22, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
The new banner looks stretched to me. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 20:30, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
I'm going to go ahead and restore the old banner. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:49, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

Renaming regions[edit]

Based on what the common names in Chinese are, I think we should rename the Southern Coast area as South Fujian, the Northern Coast area as East Fujian, and Inland Fujian as West Fujian. Of course, the complication in this is that Putian is not considered to be a part of South Fujian, so perhaps a workaround will be to split Putian off into a separate region. The dog2 (talk) 16:55, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

@The dog2: A number of towns have been moved to be under other cities. Is there a plan to change the city articles formats to huge cities and districts or merge the articles? Looking at current status of Chongwu, Gulangyu, Haicang, Hui'an, Jimei, Mawei, Shishi, Tong'an, Xiang'an, --Traveler100 (talk) 14:38, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
I'm not aware of any such plans, but personally I would be in favour of creating huge-city articles rather than doing mergers. Admittedly, some of those district articles look very sparse at the moment. If necessary, I could probably add a number of skeleton listings to justify their existence. STW932 (talk) 15:31, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
Many of those are suburbs of the larger cities, so I'm not sure what the convention would be here. We seem to do things differently for different Western cities. For instance, we treat the suburbs of Chicago as separate cities here, but on the other hand, the suburbs of Melbourne are treated as part of Melbourne. My view is that we should consider practicality here first and foremost. If it's officially part of the city but located in some remote, distant corner where it would be impractical for you to commute downtown on a daily basis, it should be listed as a separate village/town/city. But if it is a suburb of the city in question, then we can include it as part of the city. Remember, the traveller comes first. The dog2 (talk) 15:57, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
The city/prefecture ambiguity is ubiquitous in China. See Talk:Fuzhou for one previous discussion & links to others.
Fuzhou prefecture includes Mawei but Mawei is far from the main town & I think it should definitely not be included in a Fuzhou article. Mention that is near Fuzhou & in Fuzhou Prefecture, but let the breadcrumb point to the region, not to Fuzhou. Similarly for Quanzhou & Chongwu, Hui'an, Shishi.
Xiamen is a harder case; in the Chinese system it is a "prefecture-level city"; there is no separate prefecture; see Xiamen#Orientation. Haicang, Jimei,Tong'an & Xiang'an are administrative districts. Gulangyu is not administratively distinct, but seems to me to rate its own article since it is a major tourist draw & a World Heritage Site.
I think Xiamen is OK as it stands, but could probably be improved using a huge city structure like what we have for Macau & moving most of the content of the current article to Xiamen/Island. Pashley (talk) 05:37, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
I have no objection to restructuring the Xiamen article as a huge city one. If there are no other objections and someone is willing to do it, I'd say go ahead. The dog2 (talk) 17:13, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
Until the changes to huge cities, districts and merges are done, I have fixed the broken breadcrumbs set back to put city articles under regions. --Traveler100 (talk) 10:53, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

I think all three renamings -- quoting User:The dog2 "rename the Southern Coast area as South Fujian, the Northern Coast area as East Fujian, and Inland Fujian as West Fujian." -- were mistakes. To me the original names were clearer. I'd move all these articles back to them. Pashley (talk) 05:23, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

I was just moving them to the most common names, or at least the English translations of their most common Chinese names. Xiamen, Quanzhou and Zhangzhou are known collectively as 闽南 in Chinese, which literally means "South Fujian". Fuzhou and Ningde are collectively known as 闽东 in Chinese, which literally means "East Fujian". When possible, I think we should default to the most common names for our article names, but let's see what others say.
@Mx. Granger: Any thoughts? The dog2 (talk) 05:43, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, Minnan (South Fujian) is used even in English, but I've never seen Min Dong (East Fujian) outside of dialect discussions & I spent several years living in Fuzhou. Pashley (talk) 06:39, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
Both Chinese Wikipedia and Baidu Baike have articles on 闽东 (East Fujian), which explicitly says that it covers the geographical area of Fuzhou and Ningde. I understand that Putian is traditionally not considered to be part of South Fujian, but most accepted theory is that the Minnan, Teochew and Hainanese people migrated down to their respective regions from Putian, which would explain why those dialects are quite similar, and is also why I grouped it loosely with South Fujian. And if you believe Wikipedia, the Putian dialect has more lexical similarity with the Minnan dialect than with the Fuzhou dialect (I only speak Minnan, but not Putian dialect or Fuzhou dialect, so I can't verify this independently).
By the way, if you want to move West Fujian back to Inland Fujian, I have no objection. I used that name for convenience,but it doesn't look like there is a common name for that region. The dog2 (talk) 07:34, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
I was pinged, but I don't know enough about Fujian to have much of an opinion on this one. My vague inclination is to defer to Pashley about what names make sense for an English-speaker visiting the province. —Granger (talk · contribs) 13:43, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
@Pashley: How about the compromise I suggested then. Let's keep the South Fujian and East Fujian names, since they are the actual proper names of the region in question. Then we can move West Fujian back to Inland Fujian, since the term is only being used in a descriptive sense in this instance. The dog2 (talk) 21:58, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
OK Pashley (talk) 23:15, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
@Pashley: You'll probably have it do it though, because I don't have the administrator privileges needed to delete the redirect for the move. The dog2 (talk) 18:30, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
Yes Done.
@The dog2: Would you accept an admin nomination? I'd be happy to make one. Pashley (talk) 23:07, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
I don't know. I don't like I'm the right person for it, but if the community feels strongly about me becoming one, I'm willing to consider. The dog2 (talk) 23:50, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Heavy drinking[edit]

User:The dog2 recently added "Unlike in northern China, heavy drinking is not part of the local culture in Fujian." I've lived in Fujian & consider this nonsense.

Checking, I find he or she has added similar claims in the Hainan, Hong Kong & Guangdong articles. I'm not sure about Hong Kong, but I'd certainly revert the others. Other opinions? Pashley (talk) 06:15, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

@Pashley: Were the people you met actual Fujian locals, or were they migrants from northern China? I have many relatives of Fujian ancestry, and they do not typically drink baijiu. In fact, the majority of Chinese people in Singapore are descended from immigrants from Fujian, and there is just no tradition of drinking baijiu. The dog2 (talk) 06:23, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
The Chinese I knew were nearly all from either Fujian or Sichuan. They did not often drink baijiu but they certainly put back a lot of beer & wine. Some of the rich ones also drank a lot of cognac. Pashley (talk) 06:31, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
@Pashley: OK, adjust accordingly then. I will agree that there are people who drink a lot of wine and beer. Baijiu is definitely a lot more common in northern China. But I will say binge drinking is not really part of the traditional culture unlike what you get in northern China or the West. The dog2 (talk) 14:09, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
Yes Edited here & added some text at Chinese_cuisine#Alcoholic. Pashley (talk) 00:25, 7 August 2020 (UTC)