Talk:Portuguese phrasebook

Difference between Portuguese and Spanish pronunciations

Hello,

I was redirected to this page by a user on my talk page on the main wikipedia for what I presume because of my knowledge of the Portuguese language since I am Portuguese. I was curious and decided I would participate. I looked at some phrases, and I am impressed. However, some user has been confused between Portuguese and Spanish pronunciations. Such as this example:

I'm a vegetarian. Eu sou vegetariano (yo soy ve-ghee-ter-RI-ahn-o)

In Portuguese, to represent I or me it's eu. In Spanish, it's yo. The pronunciation of this is totally wrong as we do not say yo. Eu is more as if eh-oo as it is indicated in the article. Yo is totally different from eh-oo. Secondly, in Portuguese, to use the verb to be in the 1st singular (to represent yourself) it's eu sou. In Spanish, it's yo soy. We pronounce it as if it's so the English conjunction.

These mistakes go on for I presume for a few phrases. I will fix this, but I want to remind those who participate in the article about the differences of Portuguese and Spanish. Thank you, Callmemirela (talk) 06:45, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

@Callmemirela: Thanks a lot. Portuguese and Spanish have many similarities but there are important differences and Portuguese has many nasal sounds which Spanish doesn't (hence the cedilla and many tildes over letters other than "n"). I appreciate your feedback--my Spanish is okay and my Portuguese is bad. I'm also happy if you can help give us more context between Brazilian and African/European varieties of your language. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 06:51, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

Should we merge with Brazilian Portuguese phrasebook?

Given that we've merged the Castilian and Latin American Spanish phrasebooks in to a single article, and we've also done the same with the Traditional and Simplified Chinese phrasebooks, I was wondering if European and Brazilian Portuguese should be merged into one article. I don't speak the language apart from a few words and and phrases I picked up during my trip to Portugal, so I don't know if they are different enough to warrant separate phrasebooks. At least from my conversations with Brazilians and Portuguese people, they still recognise each other as speaking the same language, and they are able to understand each other for the most part. Are there any native Portuguese speakers here who can provide some input? The dog2 (talk) 18:52, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

• Yes, I speak Brazilian Portuguese as my native language. Pronunciation and vocabulary are veeeery different in both sides of the Atlantic, more so than English or Spanish, enough to justify separate phrasebooks. "(Speakers of both varieties) are able to understand each other for the most part" is an exaggeration, and occurs only when speaking very slowly. Ibaman (talk) 18:56, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Page banner image change proposal

Current banner

Proposed banner

The current page banner nicely evokes Lisbon, but it doesn't really say "Portuguese language" to me. The only writing is the brand name of Lisbon's non-subway transit system, which means "rails". I propose a banner that shows a quote from famed Portuguese poet Fernando Pessoa. It translates as "My homeland is the Portuguese language." (You can see it in action at User:Nelson Ricardo 2500/European Portuguese pronunciation and phoneticization.) Nelson Ricardo (talk) 20:39, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

No objections have been raised, so I'll go ahead and make the switch. Nelson Ricardo (talk) 00:21, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

• @Nelson Ricardo 2500: Sorry about that, I didn't notice this thread, but I like the second one. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 00:32, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
• Me too. Ground Zero (talk) 01:05, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Sources for audio files

• c:Category:Portuguese pronunciation
• c:Category:Lingua_Libre_pronunciation-por

-- Nelson Ricardo (talk) 01:30, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

as 'ai' in "renaissance"

That's "REHN-uh-sahns" when I'm speaking English. What sound do you mean? Like "ai" in "pair", perhaps? Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:11, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Pinging Nelson Ricardo 2500 and ThunderingTyphoons!, both who know numerous Romance languages SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:29, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

(I think Ikan and I probably have similar accents.) Difficult to transcribe exactly. I don't recall writing the "renaissance" part, but I don't have a strong feeling against it, though I wouldn't have chosen it myself. I've changed the pseudo-phoneticization from [ahny] to [uhny], as the original was probably a vestige from before Brazilian was split out. You can listen to audio samples for mãe here: c:File:LL-Q5146 (por)-Santamarcanda-mãe.wav and c:File:LL-Q5146 (por)-Nelson Ricardo 2500-mãe.wav --Nelson Ricardo (talk) 06:50, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

I forget that many English accents are non-rhotic, so for them "ai" in "pair" and "ai" in "pain" are not the same. But I digress. [ahny] and [uhny] both look bisyllabic to me. For what it's worth, the first audio sample sounds like "maeed" to me and the second sound sort of halfway between "mahee" [one syllable] and "muhee" [one syllable]. Without putting the disclaimer in brackets after the sound, it looks bisyllabic to me. "Y" by itself is a consonant to me, but "ee" can only mean one sound to me in English. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:04, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Most people from England would pronounce it "Ruh-NAY-sonce", so I would definitely advise to choose a different guide word. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:21, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

I've changed the guide word to "main", which I believe is the same on both sides of the Atlantic (and hopefully the Pacific, too). --Nelson Ricardo (talk) 18:45, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

oh well, I pronounce "main" much closer to an inversion of our very own word "nem" (=neither/nor), but OK, I'm Brazilian. Ibaman (talk) 19:03, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

@Nelson Ricardo 2500 re Pacific. Pretty sure that the Philippines pronounces it the same way as the US, given its history. Oceania generally uses that too, but no idea about East Asia and can't remember what it's like in Singapore but would defer to The dog2 for Singapore.. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:06, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

The standard pronunciation of "renaissance" in Singapore follows the British pronunciation, but I would bet that people who are less well educated will probably not know how to pronounce it. The dog2 (talk) 09:43, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Portuguese phrasebook page crashing on mobile version

Swept in from the pub

I noticed that if I try to load up the Portuguese phrasebook on mobile, it loads twice then crashes. The page loads up the first few paragraphs of text and some of the headers (up to "Phrase list"). After two attempts, the page crashes. I would be interested to know if other people can replicate this error on their end. Also, it's important to note that I could only get it to happen from my phone, loading the mobile site from a desktop caused no problems. Giraffesinc (talk) 22:24, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Can you tlel us which model/OS/browser you were using? This may be a phab: issue. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:26, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Sure, I was using iOS and I tried it on Safari and Chrome and got the same problem on both. Giraffesinc (talk) 05:06, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Please also tell the version numbers, if you can. –LPfi (talk) 10:08, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Yes, it happens to me also, the desktop version of the phrasebook also crashes on iPhone. Safari 16.4. Maybe it has something to do with the audio files, which is something this phrasebook has a lot of. Ypsilon (talk) 10:33, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

I have an iPhone 11 running iOS 16.1.1 Giraffesinc (talk) 22:16, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

@Giraffesinc: If I may ask, what model are you using? I opened the phrasebook on an iPhone 14 Pro (with iOS 16) and it worked just fine. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 10:38, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

I have the 11 with iOS 16 and am getting the problem (16.1.1 to be exact) Giraffesinc (talk) 22:16, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Strange indeed. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 07:23, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

The page is just too big. Phone goes out of memory. TheDJ (talk) 07:59, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

@TheDJ, how big is too big these days? How can editors here figure out that a page is too big? WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:53, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Well when it already takes over 10 seconds to load it on desktop on a pretty new computer, that's generally a pretty good indication :)

Here in particular I presume it has to do with the large amount of audio clips that need to be handled. I might look into checking if these can be loaded more asynchronously, cause looking at the performance metrics this isn't very optimal right now when done in these numbers (should probably batch them or something). I also notice that the initListingEditor of Wikivoyage:Listing editor and the "open external links in new window" gadgets (both default) are highly inefficient. TheDJ (talk) 09:46, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

There are an astonishing 440 audio players on this page.... My goodness. I'm not sure what's going wrong here, but I suspect that Safari's native audio player is trying to dynamically size itself using javascript, and for each layout update has to recalculate everything for each player, which is likely very inefficient. I should probably file a ticket with Apple about this. TheDJ (talk) 11:24, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Heavens, 440 audio files? Perhaps would it make sense to clone another copy of the page without the audio clips? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 11:35, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Isn't there one for each phrase, and isn't that what we want? But they should not need to be loaded with the page. How is this supposed to work? –LPfi (talk) 14:35, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

It's all on a single page, it all gets loaded, it all needs user interface elements, those all needs to be sized correctly compared to their surroundings. It's intense. And clearly also not well tested in Safari. It works a lot faster in Chrome. Like I said, this deserves a bugreport to Apple. TheDJ (talk) 19:50, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

FYI: I have filed a ticket with webkit describing this problem: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=258808 TheDJ (talk) 14:04, 3 July 2023 (UTC)