User talk:Crouch, Swale

Welcome

Hello Crouch, Swale! Welcome to Wikivoyage.

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Thanks for creating Hadleigh. You've made a good start, and I hope you continue to expand it. Best wishes, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 14:59, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

Did you mean to move the railway walk back under 'See'? Walks are normally 'Do', because they're considered an activity, per Wikivoyage:Where you can stick it.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:18, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

@ThunderingTyphoons!: no I didn't, sorry, I had an edit conflict and I used "Show changes" several times to merge you're changes but missed the "See>Do" move. Crouch, Swale (talk) 09:11, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Ah, no worries. Edit conflicts are always a pain.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:17, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Burton on Trent

Thanks for starting this article. I noticed what looked like a typo in the “Understand” section which perhaps you recognize and know how to correct. I don’t have local knowledge so I can’t correct it myself.

Thanks again for contributing! --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 13:00, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

That’s what I thought it was trying to say. Thanks! --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 13:04, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks SelfieCity that was indeed what I was trying to say! Indeed "grew up" not "brew up" that I got from the Wikipedia article. I haven't finished the article and will improve it over the next week or so. I don't have a street map of Burton upon Trent so I'm relying more on Google Maps and Google etc. Crouch, Swale (talk) 13:07, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

It's already going really well! If the typo is on Wikipedia then I apologize for correcting it as the issue is actually there. If you incorporate text or other material from WP, make sure to give credit using the template (along with a link to the WP page in your edit summary) for copyright reasons. There's also a website called that is recommended for coordinates, etc. when business information is available there, but if you can't find anything there Google Maps works as well. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 13:12, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

The typo was mine but I did get the information from Wikipedia, although it indeed appears to be general knowledge I indeed probably should have noted in my edit summary that I got it from WP, I'll add the template to the talk, thanks. Crouch, Swale (talk) 13:17, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Disambiguating non-ambiguous pages

Hi. I'm wondering why you are disambiguating non-ambiguous pages. There is an article for only one Wickford - the other link you created is for a non-existent article. There is an article for only one Leigh - you created one link to a non-existent article and another to a different name (Leigh-on-Sea). Thanks. Nurg (talk) 09:20, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps planning to create new articles for other places with these names? --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 10:27, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

@Nurg: the Wickford in Essex is much larger and should probably have an article, though it might be only be discussed in Basildon (I might at some point write an article on it). The Leigh in Greater Manchester is much larger but it seems the consensus is that most GM towns are merged with their district. It does seem likely that someone looking for Leigh is more likely to be looking for the GM one. If its not usual to disambiguate when only 1 article currently exists (even if others should) then feel free to revert both moves, though if you revert the Leigh one a hatnote to Leigh-on-Sea should be added, thanks. Crouch, Swale (talk) 11:15, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Time formatting for the UK

Hi Crouch, Swale. Per Talk:United Kingdom, the 12-hour clock is meant to be used for articles about the UK. I fixed them up in Brandon (Suffolk), but can you please make sure to do this in future? Thanks :-) --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 03:08, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

@SHB2000: I've fixed this in all my other creations. Crouch, Swale (talk) 15:08, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Ashford

Hi. I don't think your changes to the disambiguation of Ashford are the best idea. Ashford in Surrey is almost the epitome of suburban nothingness on the edge of London. It doesn't have a Wikivoyage article, and will probably never need one, as any attractions it may develop can be tacked onto Staines. Is there any particular reason you have for making the changes? All the best, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 14:07, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

In fact, Staines doesn't even have an article, which is more surprising, though that town's still kind of nothingy. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 14:09, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

@ThunderingTyphoons!: Please just move the page back to Ashford (England) then per BRD since you have removed the Surrey entry from the Ashford disambiguation page. I can't do so myself as I'm not an admin, thanks. Crouch, Swale (talk) 09:06, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Done. Thanks, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:30, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Question

Hello, I was hoping you could assist me with a situation on Wikipedia. It involves changing a valid description back to its original form, which includes reliable citations. Would you be able to help with this? 2A02:C7C:7A08:B200:99FF:C459:951C:31B1 13:43, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

What situation is this? Crouch, Swale (talk) 13:53, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Updating the content on the Brighton page. changing Brighton is a seaside town and one of the two main areas of the city of Brighton and Hove, to Brighton is a seaside resort city officially recognized as the city of Brighton and Hove. You will notice that this was undone, even though it had credible sources. We require the assistance of a knowledgeable individual to correct this error, as the information on Brighton is incorrect Would you be able to help with this task? Don't stress if you're unable to, but if you are able to, it would be fantastic. 2A02:C7C:7A08:B200:99FF:C459:951C:31B1 14:21, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

I don't think that's correct, "Brighton" is the town while "Brighton and Hove" is the district with city status. "Brighton" doesn't have city status. Crouch, Swale (talk) 14:35, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

To add on this, although its true that in the case of say Colchester technically the city status applies to the larger district not the settlement or unparished area the settlement is often called a settlement and this is noted in the article while in the case of Brighton the status is held by "Brighton and Hove" a distinctly named district so I think it would cause more confusion in calling it a city because no entity called just "Brighton" has city status. Though you can see on here Brighton and Hove redirect to Brighton. Crouch, Swale (talk) 14:55, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Maybe if it said Brighton and Hove is a seaside city there would be no argument 2A02:C7C:7A08:B200:99FF:C459:951C:31B1 15:42, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Yes, there are towns within cities, which are referred to as towns but are actually part of a larger city. For instance, Brighton has several villages. However, Brighton is officially recognized as Brighton and Hove, so it cannot be both a city and a town simultaneously. This concept is illogical, Brighton, Brighton & Hove refer to the same location, ultimately indicating the same city.and other factors to consider are that it has one administrative authority and one city council.One city council, one local government area. the combined name reflects the unified administrative structure of the City. The Wikipedia page mentions the city's status in 2000 and references the city multiple times. 2A02:C7C:7A08:B200:99FF:C459:951C:31B1 15:15, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

I would also like to add the inconsistency of the Brighton page on Wikipedia. it provides information about the city's official status, its size in square miles, and its population, . City status

2000

Government

• Type

Unitary authority (https:// en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/

Unitary_authority)

• Governing body

Brighton and Hove City Council (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/

Brighton_and

_Hove_City_Council) Area

• Total

31.98 sq mi (82.83 km2)

Population (2021)

• Total

276,334 (ranked 59th (https:// en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/

List_of_English_districts_by_pop-ulation)

Brighton and Hove (https:// en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/

Brighton_and_Hove)

рор.)

• Density

8,640/sq mi . Additionally After reading the entire Brighton page, it refers to Brighton 26 times as a town, mostly focusing on the old town, and referred to as a city 37 times with most of cited. It is evident that Brighton is repeatedly called a city in the text, which is contradictory and perplexing, but also indicates that Brighton is commonly recognized as a city. 2A02:C7C:7A08:B200:9932:70E0:A6EE:6F9F 22:28, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

"Brighton" has never had city status, "Brighton and Hove" was formed from the merger of "Brighton" and "Hove" districts in 1997 and the new district was given city status in 2001. Saying "Brighton" has city status would not be correct. "Brighton" and "Brighton and Hove" are 2 different things even though people might sometimes think they are the same thing. Crouch, Swale (talk) 08:38, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Brighton no longer holds the status of a town. In 1997, the neighboring towns of Brighton and Hove united to form a single governing body. Following this merger, the newly-formed entity applied for and was granted city status in 2000.                             The queen's letter, "Pleased to confer on the towns of Brighton and Hove the status of a city. Now, therefore, know ye that we, of our especial grace and favor and mere motion, do by these presents ordain, declare, and direct that the TOWNS OF BRIGHTON AND HOVE shall henceforth have the status of a CITY and shall have all such rank liberties privileges and immunities as are incident to a City.                                               Two places coming together to form a single entity is causing confusion some on the wikipedia platform However, Wolverhampton also gained city status at the same time. "Pleased to confer on the town of Wolverhampton the status of a city. Now, therefore, know ye that we, of our especial grace and favor and mere motion, do by these presents ordain, declare, and direct that the TOWN OF WOLVERHAMPTON shall henceforth have the status of a CITY and shall have all such rank liberties privileges and immunities as are incident to a City.

No one would dispute that town has now become a city. Wolverhampton isnt a town anymore. The towns have merged to create a new identity as a single city. If we look at this letter in simple English.   By this document, we officially establish and proclaim that the towns of Brighton and Hove shall now be (recognized) as a city, with all the (rights), (freedoms), and (privileges that come with that). Brighton is officially recognized as the city of Brighton & Hove, not as the town of Brighton within the city of Brighton & Hove. 2A02:C7C:7A08:B200:D1F:8E55:B30A:EE0B 16:56, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Additionally, I have sent emails to Brighton MPs and the mayor regarding this issue, and they have verified the accuracy of my statements.   I  have sent your email to our Comms department who will be able to help. Thank you for getting it right. Wikipedia often gets it wrong so it's good if someone who cares edits the pages.

Kindest regards

Minna

Minna Robertson Civic Office

Manager | Brighton & Hove City Council, Brighton Town Hall, Civic Parlour, Bartholomew Square, BN1 1JA

T 01273 291225 or 07824866987

/brighton-hove.gov.uk

Our customer promise to you We will make it clear how you can contact or access our services

We will understand and get things done | We will be clear and treat you with respect. Thank you for your email,                                                       I share not only your concerns but also your frustrations!

This has been an ongoing issue for many years, we used to regularly go in and edit the page but every time we did someone else would then edit it back to say resort or town. Although thankfully the Wikipedia page retains both of the external links I added to the council website and to our official tourism site: www.visitbrighton.com (http://www.visitbrighton.com/).

As our resources are stretched instead of undertaking the Sisyphean task of updating Wikipedia, we focus on optimising the content of our website to ensure that we appear as the top result for Brighton-related searches. Please see below a screenshot of the search results for ‘Brighton’ on Google which shows that our VisitBrighton website appears before the Wikipedia entry - the majority of people use Google for online searches rather than Bing (84% Google / 9% Bing).

Thank you, Charlotte

<image002.png>

Charlotte Barrow

Senior Marketing Executive

VisitBrighton

www.visitbrighton.com (http://www.visitbrighton.com/)




Monday – Friday 8am-4pm

<image001.jpg> (https://www.visitbrighton.com/brightonup 2A02:C7C:7A08:B200:D1F:8E55:B30A:EE0B 17:04, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

IP user: Why are you discussing Wikipedia here? Would you like to improve this travel guide? Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:08, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

As you say the towns of Brighton and Hove have the status of a city implies the district not the individual towns have the status. In 1997 both districts were abolished and merged into 1 but that was only districts that were abolished. The towns still exist. Additionally as noted by Ikan Kekek this is a little off topic for this project. If you're interested you could perhaps create Hove as a separate article here. Additionally I have corrected the merge date at Brighton as it suggested the merge and city status was at the same time. Crouch, Swale (talk) 09:26, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Well the queens letter has to say towns if its One city formed from two towns may not be referred to as a town as it wasn't one place originally, despite their previous separate identities. I find it frustrating that this concept is not being understood, especially considering the support from MPs, the mayor, and Brighton communications. Thanks for your time, lt seems we will have to remain at an impasse on this issue. 2A02:C7C:7A08:B200:6C05:F493:42A1:48D 13:45, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

no problem, really, this is hardly relevant to the traveller. Thanks for your concern. Ibaman (talk) 13:57, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Although your description of Brighton in this context is excellent and effectively explains the merger, could you also replicate this description on Wikipedia? Brighton East Sussex in southeastern England, 76 km (47 mi) south of London. In 1997, the neighbouring communities of Brighton and Hove joined to form the City of Brighton and Hove which was given city status in 2001. 78.86.133.212 14:57, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

The Brighton Wikipedia article already states this (at the bottom of the lead) but we have a problem both here and on Wikipedia. Was the city status given in 2000 or 2001? Some sources state 2000 and some state 2001? Crouch, Swale (talk) 15:06, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

I know, but I understand why you chose to open the lead in that way. It immediately outlines Brighton's identity as it effectively captures the essence of the merger, I never considered it before but it is essential in the opening lead. Also, without explicitly mentioning town or city, it would be intriguing to observe how the search engine Bing categorizes and refers to Brighton, as bing goes by the a discription when labelling a settlement, providing an artificial intelligence perspective on the merger. This categorization may evolve over time, allowing us to track changes in the descriptions provided when searching on Bing. It seems that Brighton, Inverness, and Wolverhampton were all considered millennium cities, but in reality, it was in the year 2001 when this took place. 2A02:C7C:7A08:B200:2CB8:8C4F:3ABA:84BD 19:48, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Also, the map of "Brighton" is inaccurate as it doesnt include Portslade, Mile Oak, and Saltdean. This also leads me to another point. If a minority of individuals on the platform perceive Brighton & Hove as distinct Settlements then geographically Hove is a town in Brighton! as it is

completely surrounded and would be technically in Brighton, having the dyke in the north (Brighton), Brighton central to the east, the sea to the south and portslade to the west (Brighton), mile oak nw (Brighton) ? 78.86.133.212 23:30, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Sorry lastly, I have just inquired ChatGPT about the matter and have received this response. =

4G 0

ChatGPT 3.5 >

GM)

You

Does this mean Brighton is a town or a city The queen's letter reads, "Pleased to confer on the towns of Brighton and Hove the status of a city. Now, therefore, know ye that we, of our especial grace and favor and mere motion, do by these presents ordain, declare, and direct that the TOWNS OF BRIGHTON AND HOVE shall henceforth have the status of a CITY and shall have all such rank liberties privileges and immunities as are incident to a City.

Based on the queen's letter, Brighton and Hove have been granted the status of a city. Therefore, Brighton is now considered a city rather than a town. GM

You

what about Hove

ChatGPT

Hove is also granted the status of a city in the queen's letter. So both Brighton and Hove are now considered cities. 78.86.132.226 17:02, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

GM

You

is brighton a town or city

• ChatGPT

Brighton is officially designated as a city.

It gained city status as part of the millennium celebrations in 2000. 2A02:C7C:7A08:B200:41C1:AF3F:8E8B:B88B 17:07, 5 March 2024 (UTC)