Talk:Cuisine of Malaysia, Singapore and Brunei

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A couple of details[edit]

This looks very good. A couple of details:

Is it really true that most Malaysians are adept at using chopsticks, nowadays? It's slightly surprising to me if a large number of Malays know how to use them.

Spelling: Belachan (ejaan lama) or belacan (ejaan baru)? I think we should use ejaan baru ("new spelling", which dates from 1972). Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:06, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

When I created the article by copying in from various other articles, I had to adjust the order of some things, but yes, I think it looks good. I've adjusted the paragraph about chopsticks a little so it now says "some" instead of "many". That way, travelers won't go to Malaysia expecting to see the locals using chopsticks. With the spelling, would it make sense to include both names (with the old one in parenthesis), so there is no confusion? You're the expert here so I'll leave it to you to make that decision. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 20:16, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
Hold on. You can indeed expect the locals to use chopsticks in Chinese eateries in Malaysia; it's just that many Malays don't know how to use them. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:54, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

Rename[edit]

I think we should re-name it Malaysian and Singaporean cuisine, since both countries have a very similar culinary tradition with very similar flavours. In fact, if you travel around, you could almost consider Singaporean cuisine to be a regional variant of Malaysian cuisine, in the same way that Kuala Lumpur and Penang cuisine are slightly different from each other. Given that Singapore was part of Malaya under British rule, and was part of Malaysia briefly after the British left, this is actually not that surprising. The dog2 (talk) 19:32, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

Sure. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:33, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
Should this article include Bruneian cuisine too? Brunei is quite small so it may not need to be included in the title but it could still be discussed and grouped with East Malaysian. Gizza (roam) 23:27, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
Unless it's strangely different from food across the border, sure. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:49, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
I've never been to Brunei so I can't comment on Bruneian cuisine, but if it is very similar to East Malaysian cuisine, then I don't mind including Brunei in the title if people don't find such a long title too unwieldy. The dog2 (talk) 22:07, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
I'm not sure Brunei needs to be included in the name. I'd actually be tempted to keep the name and say that the article also covers Singapore and Brunei, except that Singaporeans wouldn't stand for being conflated with Malaysia in any way, for understandable historical reasons and also due to a more or less healthy or unhealthy rivalry. :-) I could see Bruneians objecting, too, but I think our argument would be that Brunei is a lesser-known country and doesn't get nearly as many visits by foreigners as Malaysia or Singapore. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:06, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
Yes, I think the name "Malaysian cuisine" is fine, and I can understand making it "Malaysian and Singaporean cuisine" or "Malaysian and Brunei cuisine" but not "Malaysian, Singaporean, and Brunei cuisine". It's too long, especially compared to just "Malaysian cuisine".
A compromise could be to redirect "Singaporean cuisine" or "Brunei cuisine" to this article and keep the current name. Another option is to mention that this article covers multiple cuisines right at the beginning. I think straightforward article titles should be used when possible, but of course if we need to name the article something different we should. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 02:09, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────I'm personally not big into identity politics, so whatever. But it would most certainly be offensive to most Singaporeans if you call them Malaysians, and given that Brunei decided not to join Malaysia even when Singapore did in 1963, I won't be surprised if the same applies to Bruneians too. And while I won't get into to much detail here, geopolitically, Singapore and Brunei have a very close relationship (in fact, the Singapore and Brunei currencies are pegged 1:1), despite the fact that Brunei is demographically more similar to Malaysia. So while I'm not particular, those are certainly some things to consider.

Speaking of which, there used to be a "Malaysian and Singaporean cuisine" article back in the days of Wikitravel before a consensus back then was not to have cuisine articles. It's interesting that after so long, the consensus has shifted to wanting these cuisine articles back. The dog2 (talk) 04:09, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Well, if we have to mention all 3 countries, let's call it "The cuisine of Malaysia, Singapore and Brunei". Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:15, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
That sounds reasonable. All of the variants (e.g. Singaporean and Bruneian cuisine) can become redirects. Gizza (roam) 05:01, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
I would leave out the word "the". —Granger (talk · contribs) 05:06, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
I'm happy with Ikan Kekek's suggested title. The dog2 (talk) 05:09, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

[unindent] By the way, about the tangent on the popularity of cuisine articles, I still think very few of them are anywhere close to sufficiently travel-focused. Wikipedia has some excellent articles about the "what" of cuisine; we need to cover the "where". We should be telling people where to go for the best examples of a, b, c, x, y and z dishes. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:41, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Interesting point. I'll think about that as I keep working on the Chinese cuisine article. —Granger (talk · contribs) 08:01, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
Would w:Malay cuisine be a good name? ϒpsilon (talk) 08:09, 12 September 2018 (UTC) Apparently not, because the article is also about other cuisines in Malaysia and surrounding countries. ϒpsilon (talk) 08:12, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
No, it would be a very inappropriate name, because Malaysian cuisine is the cuisine of the Malays, the Chinese and Indian Malaysians and the Orang Asli, plus the Peranakan/Nyonya, the Malaccan Portuguese, etc. Malaysia is a very diverse country. It's conceivable that someday, this article will become so long and detailed that we might have to split it up, but absolutely not at this point. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:23, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
I think the Chinese cuisine article is promising, as is the Japanese cuisine one. In addition to focusing on where to get what, we should also cover what kind of experiences to expect in different kinds of eateries and etiquette surrounding eating and drinking. In Malaysia, usually things are pretty informal, but that's way less true in Japan or France. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:26, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
Of course there are fancier places in Malaysia too, though I will admit that Kuala Lumpur's fine dining scene is not as vibrant as Bangkok's. And in Japan, there's also very casual places if you know where to look; ramen and curry rice places, so instance, are very casual.
But anyway, yes, I think one of the things we need to do is to cover the regional specialities. For instance, if you want bak kut teh, it comes in different styles in different areas. Klang is the most famous, but we have our own variant in Singapore, and over in Sabah, Kota Kinabalu and Sandakan have their own versions of bak kut teh which are also different. With regards to Peranakan cuisine, you may be surprised to know that ayam buah keluak is actually very local to Malacca and Singapore, and most Malaysians not from Malacca don't even know what it is. And I also realised we haven't even covered Eurasian cuisine in the article. Of course, devil's curry / curry debal is their most famous dish, but there are others as well like sugee cake and shephard's pie. The dog2 (talk) 18:54, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
I spent most of my time in Malaysia in Terengganu, with occasional forays into Kelantan, and secondarily in KL and have taken only one brief trip apiece to Malacca and Singapore, so I'm not sure I've actually ever tried ayam buah keluak, and I'm also unfamiliar with specifically Eurasian cuisine. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:02, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
Look's like nobody has objected for a while, so I will go ahead and re-name if there are no objections in the next 24 hours. The dog2 (talk) 14:54, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

Images[edit]

Mbrickn just added some nice images. Whoever has the chance: Let's distribute them more or less evenly throughout the article, per Image policy#Minimal use of images:

  • Images should be distributed throughout an article, not bunched up in any section.
  • Try to avoid having more than 2 or at most 3 successive images without space between them.

Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:29, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

Nasi lemak wars[edit]

I thought you might enjoy reading this BBC story: http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/20191111-where-is-malaysias-national-dish ---- Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:29, 12 November 2019 (UTC)