Talk:Castles

Castles...

Swept in from the pub

Not something found by a direct search on that term..

Plenty in the UK (and ruins), and probably Western European, probably any topic would want to pick the top 20 or so key examples.

However, where else has castle-like fortifcations? China and Japan certainly, and I've seen photos on Wikimedia Commons that are of so termed 'hill-forts' in the Indian sub-continent.

Worth an attempted draft, or wait until someone else writes something? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:42, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

This has been on my to do list for some time. As you say UK and Germany has a lot of potential as well as some of the eastern European countries. Mid-east has some interesting castle but many are too dangerous to visit at the moment with Syria being off limits. The other question would be, do you also include fortifications or is that another article? Forts would take you out of medieval times and into many more countries. Also a challenge are fortified homes, what in Germany would be a Schloss (some are like medieval castles other more like manor houses or stately homes or château). --Traveler100 (talk) 18:02, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

And you have the one in Bavaria(?) that was not really a military fortification, but looks awesome on postcards :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:35, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Well that is just a slightly older one than the one in Euro Disney. --Traveler100 (talk) 21:11, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

There are also walled or formerly walled cities like Palmanova or Shanghai/Old City. Nanjing had the world's longest city wall & parts of it still stand. Also other fortified dwellings like Hakka Tulou, & likely various related things I don't know about. Pashley (talk) 21:35, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Not every castle is a fortification. Some are grand old hotels, some are merely dwelling houses for the overprivileged wealthy. Conversely, not every fortress is a castle. K7L (talk) 00:30, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Traditionally, a castle is supposed to be a fortified dwelling that is meant to provide defence for the lord living inside. So Schloss Neuschwanstein is often called Neuschwanstein Castle in English, but is not really a castle as it has no functional battlements or other fortifications; it's simply a palace built to resemble a castle. On the other hand, China's Forbidden City and South Korea's Gyeongbokgung and Changdeokgung were built with fortifications that gave soldiers an advantage when they were defending the emperor/king, so you could argue that those could count as castles. The dog2 (talk) 02:57, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Without getting into too much debate here, just wanted to make the point that an article on "Medieval Castles" would be a very good idea. And then other article for "Fortifications" and another for "Noble Residences". --Traveler100 (talk) 05:53, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Some of the chateaux in France would also classify as castles. Many are private property and inhabited, but quite a few are open to the public and worth a visit. ArticCynda (talk) 08:20, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

A side comment I'd prefer the topic Grand and Great houses over Noble residences.

For various reasons I'd count Tower Houses as Castles of a sort, but not necessarily later Chateux.. You have edge cases like Bodiam in Sussex ( althought it has much of the architectural design of a true castle, they are mostly for show if I am reading the Wikipedia article.)

"Grand and Great houses", I find that a good term. Have been searching for some generic term for chateux, stately home, manor house, Schloß, Resedenz, palace. That would work. --Traveler100 (talk) 12:28, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

That title works for me. Alternatively, it can just be called "Palaces", since "Schloß" and "château" are just the German and French words for "palace" respectively. As for castles, I know that it common usage these days, we no longer stick to that strict definition, which is why we have the Sleeping Beauty Castle in Disneyland, but traditionally, a castle had to be fortified. If the creation of the "Medieval castles" articles goes ahead, I think we can mention both the traditional definition, and how it's applied much more loosely these days. It's true that not all fortresses are castles, but traditionally, all castles had to be fortresses. The dog2 (talk) 14:43, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

OK lets get started on Castles, Fortifications and Grand and Great houses. --Traveler100 (talk) 15:08, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Side note, besides proper names and those who reject even the most uncontroversial aspects of the 1998 spelling reform nobody spells it "Schloß" any more. And that says somebody who once lived in a street with the idiosyncratic spelling. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:37, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

& Multiple Travel topic articles per country could be looked at... see: Forts and Palaces of India as an example. Use template related on that particular country's article page ... Depending upon size one could end up creating a rather large index which I have been told is not really acceptable, thus smaller groupings might be necessary. If need be, multiple travel topic pages can be combined together through the use of transclusion. ie. Castles, Fortifications and Grand and Great Houses of Scandinavia could be combined from those topic pages for Denmark, Sweden etc.

• Separate section headings for Medieval, Renaissance, World War I, World War II etc. could also be used to identify entities and again transcluded to separate travel topic pages. In the examples above the approach would be to create source pages that provide information for multiple pages as well.
• Whether or not Wikidata could be used through some jquery is also something that could be examined.
• Many ears ago I used templates containing hidden keywords to provide extra searching capabilities but that was using a different search engine in Mediawiki.

Just a thought! Matroc (talk) 01:53, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

India

What about Indian Hill forts? To me these are the Castles of that region. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:22, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Role of religious orders

Were all knights organised in religious orders? This sentence on the tradition to the High Middle Ages makes it seem so:

While knights, men of noble birth, skilled in warfare from horseback, had been around since the 8th century, they became organized in religious orders, who usually had castles built.

Weren't the nights of religious orders just one type of knights? My understanding is that most knights served worldly lords. LPfi (talk) 09:17, 18 February 2022 (UTC)