Talk:East China

More cities?

We currently list only six cities for this area. Policy allows nine and this is a busy & populous area, so I think we should add some. Which?

The three currently on the map but not on the city list are not good candidates. I'm not sure any of them is important. Jinhua has no article, Huai'an and Yancheng only stubs.

Yangzhou and Changzhou are fairly important cities, I think. Maybe Wuxi? Yiwu? Xuzhou is 9 million or so, I think Jiangsu's largest city. Zhenjiang was Pearl Buck's home and is something of a tourist town. There are more.

Other opinions? Pashley (talk) 19:33, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Maybe Huzhou? Pashley (talk) 15:26, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

I went ahead and added Yangzhou. Pashley (talk) 00:29, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Nantong is 8 million or so, but I do not think it is a very important city. Other opinions? Pashley (talk) 22:04, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Well, I think cities with big population are always important to some extent so go ahead and add largest cities in this region. --Saqib (talk) 15:52, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps the map was changed since this discussion started one year ago. The map shows 9 major cities in the region, why not use those? Andrewssi2 (talk) 02:21, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

It has not changed. See the second paragraph above "The three currently on the map ..." Pashley (talk) 02:43, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

I have added Xuzhou, so now we are up to 8. Does anyone want to add a 9th? Or quarrel with some of the 8? Pashley (talk) 01:55, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

I don't know the cities under consideration, except that I visited Wuxi in 1987. What criteria are we using other than population, and how do the remaining cities stack up based on the various criteria? Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:25, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Having lived there until last year, I think the current list is fairly representative. The criteria should probably be around how interesting each is to visit (and not all Chinese cities are created equal in this regard) rather than just population.

Also looking to the future, many of these cities will be sucked into Shanghai. There are already plans to connect the metro systems of Suzhou and Shanghai. Andrewssi2 (talk) 02:45, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

I remember when it took about 3 1/2 hours to take a long-distance train from Shanghai to Suzhou. It wasn't in the 19th century or something, it was in 1987. Suzhou may be commutable to Shanghai, but I can't see it completely losing its separate identity.

Anyway, which of the remaining cities do you think is most interesting, and how would you compare them, in that respect? Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:05, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

I think, of the other ones cited above, Zhenjiang is probably the best known as a visitor destination - for the temple (of White Snake fame) and the cuisine - and Pearl Buck's home as mentioned. It was also Jiangsu's capital between 1928 and 1949, and has some weirdly English houses from the historical British concession. Otherwise possibly Wuxi. I visited Wuxi in the early 1990s when it was a popular destination for the theme parks / film studios, but most of those are gone now. --PalaceGuard008 (talk) 13:05, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

As there are still 8 cities listed, I'd say go ahead and add Zhenjiang. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:04, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

I've added it. Our article on Zhenjiang is quite dismissive of the place, I think perhaps slightly excessively. I'll amend it slightly. It's probably true that the average international visitor would find nearby Nanjing (say) more interesting, but someone who is curious about the Grand Canal, or interested in medieval Chinese legends, 19th century Chinese history, and the concession period may well find it quite interesting. --PalaceGuard008 (talk) 10:25, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

I haven't been there (or to Nanjing, either), but it sure sounds reasonable to me for you to make those edits. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:35, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Update the map?

Now that we have a good list of nine cities (per discussion above), is there a volunteer to update the map?

I think perhaps it might show more than just those nine. I think Wuxi and Huzhou (maybe others?) are worth showing even if they are not among the top nine. Other opinions? Also, there are three cities shown on the current map but not in the article's list; should they go or stay when the map is revised? Pashley (talk) 14:32, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Including any important cities that reasonably fit on the map is good, not bad. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:28, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

I can update the map. Just let me know which extra cities beyond the nine listed (if any) you want to add. -Shaundd (talk) 06:07, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Within the area, I'd say Wuxi, Huzhou, Nantong & Changzhou.

Outside E China, but on the map, add some cities for context: Hefei and Xiapu, maybe a city in Shandong?

Mount Tai, Mount Wuyi and Huangshan are all UNESCO sites & major tourist destinations. I'm not sure if the map extends far enough to show the 1st two. Pashley (talk) 07:35, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

What do you think of en:wikipedia:Mount Mogan? It's not far from Hangzhou / Shanghai and seems to be quite popular with international visitors. --PalaceGuard008 (talk) 15:22, 24 January 2016 (UTC) I see we don't have an article for it. And it's quite close to Hangzhou, so perhaps not worth showing separately on the region map. --PalaceGuard008 (talk) 15:25, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

The updated map is up. Let me know if any changes are needed. Cheers. -Shaundd (talk) 18:14, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Nice work & prompt. Thanks. But there is a change needed. Xuzhou & Xiapu both start with 'X', but have 'Z' on current map. Pashley (talk) 02:27, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Oops, sorry about that. Corrections made. You may need to refresh the page/purge the cache to see the new map. -Shaundd (talk) 06:02, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Map problem?

There are two maps & they differ in how far they show Shanghai extending inland, much further in the regions map than in the one with the title "East China". I think the second is correct. Pashley (talk) 05:09, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

To me it seems they are the same, only the static map is less precise...? Andree.sk (talk) 13:22, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Looking again, I think I see the problem. One map colours parts of the sea green or orange, perhaps to show the official boundaries. I think this is a mistake; it would be far clearer with all the sea areas blue. Pashley (talk) 20:53, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Fujian

Now that Fujian is part of the East China region, is there room in "Cities" for Fuzhou and Xiamen? I'm thinking probably not Quanzhou, though. Also, this was "Other destinations" in the former Southeast China region:

Several attractions in the are are on the UNESCO World Heritage List:

• 1 Mount Wuyi is a scenic and historic area in Fujian
• 2 Fujian Tulou earth roundhouses in Western Fujian
• The "castles" (diaolou) built by overseas Chinese in Kaiping, Guangdong, mainly in the early 20th century
• 3 Gulangyu is a quiet (no cars or motorcycles) island in Xiamen with interesting colonial-period buildings.

Ignore the Guangdong listing; which of the 3 Fujian listings should be added to this article? If we should add all of them, which of the current 7 numbered listings should be removed? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:11, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

These are the Fujian city listings that were in the "Cities" section of Southeast China:

• 1 Fuzhou, capital of Fujian
• 2 Quanzhou, historic port, formerly a major terminus for the Maritime Silk Road
• 3 Xiamen, Special Economic Zone, Fujian

Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:15, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

I'd say we should definitely make room for Fuzhou, Xiamen, and the tulou. Not sure about Mount Wuyi, Quanzhou, or Gulangyu. As for what to remove to make room for them, maybe Wenzhou and Xuzhou. If we want to make room for Quanzhou too, maybe remove Zhenjiang or Yangzhou. Hangzhou, Nanjing, Shanghai, and Suzhou should stay for sure. —Granger (talk · contribs) 15:33, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

I totally agree with you on the cities that are no-brainers to leave in. It sounds like you're on the fence about Quanzhou; how are you leaning in terms of inclusion or exclusion? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:19, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

I know so little about the city, I just don't feel equipped to judge. If I had to pick, I'd say include Quanzhou and maybe remove Yangzhou (or Zhenjiang), but I don't really know. —Granger (talk · contribs) 01:06, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Any other thoughts? User:Pashley? User:OhanaUnited? User:STW932? Specifically, do you agree that Wenzhou and Xuzhou should be the cities to get bumped by Fuzhou and Xiamen, and what do you think about including or excluding Quanzhou and whether Yangzhou, Zhenjiang or another city should be bumped to make room for Quanzhou? Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:56, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

I'm also not quite sure what to do here. My suggestion would be to make room for Fuzhou and Xiamen by removing Zhenjiang and Yangzhou, but keep Quanzhou off the list. I say this simply because I think we should try to have at least one city representing each major region. Wenzhou is the main city in southern Zhejiang and Xuzhou is the main city in northern Jiangsu, so I would kind of prefer that those two cities were kept on the list. In southern Jiangsu, on the other hand, we have three cities (Suzhou, Yangzhou and Zhenjiang) but Suzhou is definitely much more of a tourist drawcard than the other two cities, so it's an obvious choice to represent that region. STW932 (talk) 11:09, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

I took your well-argued suggestions. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:17, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

I also added Fujian Tulou. It looks like there's room for one more "Other destination", if we want to add a 9th. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:21, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

I have added Mount Wuyi as the 9th "other destination", my reasoning being that Mount Wuyi is more likely to be seen as a destination in its own right, whereas Gulangyu is part of Xiamen and quite close to Xiamen's city centre. —The preceding comment was added by STW932 (talk • contribs)

Thanks for taking care of that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:38, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

Text for revision

The figures in this sentence will have to be revised, now that Fujian is part of this region:

If this area were a country, its population of 156 million (2010 census) would be 8th largest in the world (after Nigeria, ahead of Bangladesh), and its GDP of over $15 billion would be 12th (after Canada, ahead of Australia). Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:37, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

Once it is updated, the revised sentence could be reinserted into the lede section. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:38, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

Also, from East_China#Do

The East China Fair is a trade fair held annually in the spring in Shanghai. Their definition of "East China" is broader than what we use on Wikivoyage; they include Fujian and Jiangxi provinces.

This needs revision in any case, but it also raises the question of whether we should add Jiangxi here while we are revising the region borders. Pashley (talk) 01:36, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

By all means, make a new proposal at Talk:China. But if Jiangxi were moved to East China, then what about Anhui? And then would Hubei and Hunan be viable as a region by themselves? Maybe. Is that what you'd propose to change, or would you then move Henan from North China to South-central China (perhaps renamed "Central China")? Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:01, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

I don't think Jiangxi should be moved, but the question seemed worth raising. Pashley (talk) 02:21, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Well, you raised it, and geographically, it seems to me that if Jiangxi is moved, Anhui would probably also have to be moved. There may be something I don't know about this, though. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:04, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

I updated the sentence about the trade fair. Pashley (talk) 15:14, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for your edits. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:43, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

Shanghai's heyday

From the city's description in East China#Cities:

Relics of the city's heyday — 1840s to 1930s — abound, a fascinating mixture of East and West.

OK, but can we find a good way to rephrase this? I think Shanghai's heyday is now, in the 21st century, and maybe starting some time in the 90s (but not really yet in 1987, the first time I visited). The description refers to a previous heyday. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:43, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

I agree with you. Wikipedia (w:Shanghai) seems to use the phrase "golden age" for roughly this period. —Granger (talk · contribs) 14:26, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

Changed accordingly. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:40, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

Map needs an update

Anyone with skill in editing static maps: If you would please update the map, that would be very helpful! Thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:37, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

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