Talk:Hong Kong

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Formatting and language conventions

For articles about Hong Kong, please use the 12-hour clock to show times, e.g. 9AM-noon and 6PM-midnight.

Please show prices in this format: $100, and not not HKD 100, 100 dollars or 100圓.

Please use British spelling.


Some issues with this article[edit]

Orientation: Hong Kong Island, last sentence—“ Nearby, the Legislative Council (LegCo) continues to make the laws that organise the territory.” This suggests the article hasn’t been updated since the executive and legislative branches moved to Tamar.

History, last sentence—“ Look carefully and you'll see evidence of the PRC's sovereignty at the top of flagpoles, and in the inconspicuous but huge PLA barracks situated in the midst of the city's business district.” There is no military barracks in ‘the midst of the city’s business district,’ just a near-empty building formerly known as the Prince of Wales Building. Most of the troops are either in the New Territories or (for senior officers) on the South Side of Hong Kong Island.

Get [sic] around, By taxi, paragraph 8— “All taxis are radio equipped and can be reserved and requested via an operator for a token fee of $5, payable to the driver.” Not all. Independent drivers may not have radios, but instead rely on mobile phones.

My first visit here, so I won't edit. DOR (HK) —The preceding comment was added by 210.176.69.125 (talkcontribs)

Hello and welcome! Your reticence to edit right away is understandable but misplaced. Since you see the problems, you have the knowledge to plunge forward and edit them. So please do. Thanks! Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:31, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Currency Decimal Place[edit]

Question: Should prices in Wikivoyage for Hong Kong have 1 or 2 decimal places?

(This was started by a discussion in the HK Airport Article: Talk:Hong_Kong_International_Airport#Currency_decimal_place )

In Hong Kong, there is no coin smaller than 10 cent, and therefore most prices in the territory are represented by one decimal place (i.e. HKD $98.7, HKD $3.4 )

For example: when you take the MTR (HK subway), proces are listed thus:

MTR Prices

When speaking to shop owners, they will give you prices in the format of "Eight Point Nine Dollar"

To prevent confusion, should we make all Hong Kong prices in the one decimal format? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 13:50, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, although to paraphrase my current proposal for our Wikivoyage:Currency page at User:W. Frank/$2, However, don't knock yourself out "correcting" $27 to HKD27.0 - there is more important work to be done in plunging forward and writing an up-to-date and accurate free Travel Guide!" --W. Franke-mailtalk 11:45, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, for the record $27 should not be changed to $27.0 since it is never written like that in Hong Kong. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 06:29, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

History question[edit]

The current text includes the sentence:

After the war, despite American assurances that Hong Kong would be restored to China, the British moved quickly to regain control of Hong Kong.

Did America actually give assurances on that?

I know they helped the Kuomintang grab Manchuria and Taiwan, which had not been under Chinese control before the war, and tried to mess up the French in Indochina, and some British writers were quite angry because thought their ally tried to betray them over Hong Kong. However, this is the first I have heard of any such promise. Pashley (talk) 01:45, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

I didn't write that text. Recently there has been a lot of discussion around the Japanese Senkaku islands, and how the United States may or may not have 'promised' them to China/Taiwan or Japan after WW2. I think the truth is that in the messy aftermath of WW2 there just wasn't a definitive truth on what has been agreed for any of these territories. I think we should remove this text, since the political discussions shouldn't really belong in WikiVoyage anyhow. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 02:26, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
I rewrote some of the history in order to make it more clean and concise. I think the writing style has some issues since whoever wrote the history section really liked to use a lot of commas. Since I am British, perhaps someone can check my edits to make sure that I haven't been biased ^-^ --Andrewssi2 (talk) 13:40, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Hong Kong Island in Get in[edit]

"Get in" has a section on Hong Kong Island which is about getting to the island from other parts of HK. Unless there's some obscure reason for this, I will move it to "Get around". Nurg (talk) 10:43, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Done. Nurg (talk) 04:42, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Terminology[edit]

Someone just added some advice for exchanging money with 'street money exchange vendors'. I assume this is referring to the tiny booths found around Hong Kong that exchange money. Is this the right term for this service, or should it be something else? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 10:18, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Proposal to convert 'Outlying Islands' to region article[edit]

I have raised a proposal on the Outlying Islands Talk page. I am highlighting here since perhaps more people are monitoring the Hong Kong article.

Talk:Hong_Kong/Outlying_Islands

--Andrewssi2 (talk) 14:29, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

sub-regions of districts[edit]

Little structure admin question. I see that there are now separate articles for Peng Chau and Cheung Chau. What is the best way to position these articles? Should they be districts of Hong Kong or should Honk Kong and Hong Kong/Outlying Islands be made regions or should the information be merged back into Outlying island article? --Traveler100 (talk) 07:12, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

I was asking this on the Talk:Hong_Kong/Outlying_Islands page. Basically I had a problem with different islands being in the same one article. For example two 'eat' listings for both Cheung Chau and Lamma on the same article is confusing since the traveler will (likely) only visit one island in a day, not both. Andrewssi2 (talk) 07:19, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

The Metro map is in Chinese[edit]

The MTR (Metro) map is completely in traditional Chinese! Does anyone have a good English version to hand? Otherwise I will try and change it later. Andrewssi2 (talk) 00:16, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Where to put school children selling charity badges?[edit]

I removed the following sentence from 'Learn'

"Visitors to Hong Kong will soon notice that school children wear 'British-style' uniforms that have been adapted to the sub-tropical climate. It's a tradition for school students to sell 'flags' (badges) and collect money for charity on a Saturday morning twice a month."

I'm not sure where is the appropriate section to place this? Maybe it should be here at all? Andrewssi2 (talk) 01:04, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Demonstrations?[edit]

I am seeing much news about "Occupy Central", pro-democracy demonstrations, thousands in the streets, blocked traffic, tear gas, ...

What warnings or other comments do we need? Pashley (talk) 03:15, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

As of now a warning box in the Stay safe section should be enough? If things get really bad it can be moved to the top of the page and expanded. ϒpsilon (talk) 04:33, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
Probably a brief warning at the top of the page. The main reason is that HK is pretty small and the demonstrations are happening right in the central area where pretty much all travellers will visit. (I'm a HK resident) --Andrewssi2 (talk) 15:30, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
I've now composed a warning and put it at the top of the page as suggested. If something there's incorrect etc. feel free to fix it. ϒpsilon (talk) 18:42, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
Just perhaps the wording around military intervention? Deployment of the PLA against Hong Kong residents would be an extremely serious and hopefully unthinkable development for the time being. That said, it is an unprecedented situation for the territory. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 23:20, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
Yesterday night they said it in the news, on the other hand reporters always like to over-dramatize stuff. You and others who actually are in Hong Kong probably have more accurate information of what's actually going on. ϒpsilon (talk) 08:51, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
Actually, I only visit HK every few months and am not there right now. I think from a traveler perspective the demonstrations are more a big inconvenience than a travel risk. I would suggest anyone visiting HK over the next week should try and avoid Hong Kong island and maybe spend more time in Kowloon / New Territories or go visit Macau.
On the other hand it is completely safe to go see the demonstrations (apparently the most polite in the world).
It is also worth noting that this coincides with Chinese National holiday, and there will be (literally) millions of mainland Chinese visiting at the same time. All things considered I'm glad I'm not there right now :) --Andrewssi2 (talk) 23:50, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
A couple of days ago, CBS radio here in the US reported that democracy demonstrations have spread to Macau, too, so anyone planning a trip to the area might want to check on that. BBC World Service reported yesterday or today that China has pledged not to send the PLA into the streets of Hong Kong, but how this will unfold really is anyone's guess, and I wish the people well. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:43, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Alternative banner for this article?[edit]

Banner currently used in this article
Suggested new alternative banner

I created a new alternative banner for this article (I initially created it first and foremost so that it would be used at the top of the parallel article in the Hebrew edition of Wikivoyage, yet I later decided to also suggest that the English Wikivoyage community would consider using it here as well). So, which banner do you prefer having at the top of this article? 04:57, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

I think they're both good, but the new one is a bit more pleasant for me to look at, so I slightly favor it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:04, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
Proposed new banner is only 2100 pixels wide, which doesn't adapt as well to high definition screens. Against until a higher resolution version can be created. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 06:07, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
As far as I know we don't have any higher reqirements for resolution than 1800 pix. Did I miss anything? I like the new one better, the current one though having a more original composition, is reather too dark. Danapit (talk) 14:55, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
I thought the language in the exhibition was that 1800 pixel was the minimum, but 2100 was the recommended minimum, but looking again it doesn't seem to be clear. I believe the new suggested Banner template will start scaling higher resolution images for different screens so I'll look at that as soon as I have some time. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 22:21, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
Does that mean 2100 pix will not be enough in the future? Danapit (talk) 22:30, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
2100 pix banners will still work fine, but the existing banner template already downloads a higher resolution banner (if available) if the device uses a high definition screen (including my phone). A 4200 pix banner will look better on my Retina screen than a 2100 pix one, and I would assume the high definition screen will become ubiquitous on both desktop and mobile over the next few years. Andrewssi2 (talk) 23:07, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
Isn't there currently a policy against dark banners? Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:22, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
As in a night picture? I certainly hope not, and I say that despite preferring the new banner. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:03, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
Actually there is no policy on banners at all. I created an experimental one (non-binding) here: Wikivoyage:Banners Andrewssi2 (talk) 22:24, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
Both are great but current is more breathtaking Syced (talk) 08:11, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
Since there was a slight majority (3:2) to use the new banner, I went ahead and fixed my major sticking point which was the low resolution. The new banner now has a higher resolution (7000x1000) here: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Hong_Kong_Banner.jpg --Andrewssi2 (talk) 06:13, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

New banner suggestion[edit]

I'm not quite satisfied with the current banner, since all it shows is the harbour at night, and the lighting effect just doesn't quite work for me.

I found another image that shows a view over the city from somewhere on Victoria peak that makes me think it is much more in the spirit of the city.

Banner currently used in this article
Suggested view of Hong Kong at Sunset from Victoria peak

Would this be a good change? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 02:47, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Gut reaction: No, because the person on the near right is a strange sight in that panorama and distracting. I think I also like the composition of the current banner better. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:21, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Independence[edit]

There are a very small minority of people in Hong Kong who desire independence from China. It is really inaccurate to suggest that independence is desired by the people of Hong Kong.

This is a travel guide. There are fringe political beliefs in any country, but that doesn't mean we need to list every single one. It is misleading to suggest that you will encounter a desire for Hong Kong independence, although it is more helpful and accurate to explain that you will find people who want more autonomy and less interference from mainland China. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 22:43, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

To be fair, there was a independence demonstration on August 5th. The size was pretty small compared to the umbrella protests last year, but potentially this could grow. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 12:14, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
It could grow, it could dwindle, it could disappear. Best to take things as they are. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:27, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
Yes, as stated my preference is for the current text. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 11:31, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Cycling[edit]

The "By Bicycle" section says:

> See Cycling in Hong Kong

That's a link to https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Hong_Kong#By_Bicycle

I think that link is broken. It just takes me to the top of the page. Where should it point to?

Currency symbol is confusing[edit]

Hello everyone! In some sections of the article (for example in "Obtaining a visa to Mainland China") prices are mentioned sometimes as HKD and sometimes as $. Now, as a european foreigner, I tend to think that $ means American Dollar and HKD Hong Kong Dollar. Since the two symbols are not consistent through the article I have no idea whether mentioned prices are correct or (as I suspect) the symbol $ has been applied to HKD as well. [-unsigned comment by unregistered editor]

Thank you for bringing this up. The $ sign is used to express about three dozen different currencies around the world, usually called "dollars" or "pesos". Our convention in Wikivoyage (see WV:$) is generally to use the symbol that travellers will see on the country they are visiting, so in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and so on, "$" means the Canadian, Australian or NZ dollar respectively. In cases like Mexico, where hotels and tour companies will often show prices in US dollars, we insist on disambiguating the currency symbol, i.e., using M$ or US$ as the case may be, even though the Mexican pesos is usually denoted just by "$" in the country.
When I was in Hong Kong ten years ago, I don't remember seeing prices in US dollars, so "$" always meant HK dollars. But maybe things have changed.
The Hong Kong#Buy section does advise readers that "You can safely assume that the '$' sign used in this travel guide and in the territory refers to HKD unless it includes other initials (e.g. US$ to stand for US dollar)." We could be clearer by adding a line into the Buy sections of each of the district articles to remind readers of this. Regards, Ground Zero (talk) 06:09, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

MTR issues[edit]

Swept in from the pub

With the earlier discussion of the Hong Kong MTR in Kowloon, I thought we should look at the lack of lines displaying properly with the mapshapes template for it. Only 3 lines of the MTR are displayed, which is probably the worst I have ever seen. MSG17 (talk) 12:38, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

3 out of 15 is my guess; most may not be mapped out in OSM or if they are; link not provided in OSM to Wikidata item and/or vice versa? Not that familiar with template interaction with OSM, but this should be a definite concern not only for MTR, but others as well... == Matroc (talk) 03:09, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, missing OSM data is a concern in general. However, sometimes I notice strange behavior where the OSM data exists and is linked, but doesnt show up. Other times the lines show up even without OSM data, like something else influences what lines show up in general. One thing with MTR I am looking at is taking away the link with the Airport Express wikidata and the *superrelation* on OSM, only leaving it on the actual lines. But that will take time to update, since the OSM-Wikidata link is notoriously slow. Of course, the wikidata page will still use the OSM superrelation. MSG17 (talk) 19:52, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Mainland Chinese visa[edit]

I was wondering if we should keep the section about getting a mainland Chinese visa under the "Get In" section. My take is that since this article is about Hong Kong, the "Get In" section should be focussed on getting into Hong Kong, so I don't think that section is appropriate. We can mention about the " China Travel Services" office in the "Hong Kong International Airport" section, as that would be convenient for travellers who need to get a mainland Chinese visa for onward travel to know, but I think it has absolutely nothing to do with Hong Kong Immigration, and therefore does not belong in that section. The dog2 (talk) 03:06, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Train station article template[edit]

Swept in from the pub

I figured that West Kowloon station has a lot of info that would make it too big and maybe too specific for the main article, such as customs processes, some ticketing quirks and tons of retail space (people may have specific recommendations for food, drink and shopping in the station, for example, and one can't exactly exit the station to get food outside and get back inside quickly due to customs). Since it is meant as a transport hub in Kowloon, it also has a lot of options, with many public transit and footbridges stops and connections. So I made this in userspace, using the airport article template to make the groundwork. This is pretty unorthodox, so I want to ask the community about it.

Don't worry about the dynmap for mainland trains, although when more connections open up it could probably become too complex to maintain it is simple to just remake that section to talk about some major cities served from Hong Kong.

If it doesn't seem to be good for an article, then I will simply make sure that the revelant info goes on the right pages.

Thank you for your input.

MSG17 (talk) 14:44, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

So far, we've never made a separate article for a railway station. Even London's St Pancras station, which has immigration checks for those headed for France or Belgium, doesn't have one. But if there's enough information to warrant a separate article, I don't see why not, in the same way that we have separate airport articles. The dog2 (talk) 01:22, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
What if we had a railway station article type similar to the airport article template? --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 01:23, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
I think that's a good idea. How about we take that discussion to the pub and see what people say? The dog2 (talk) 06:28, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
Yes, certainly. If there are train stations with places to eat, sleep, etc., it would make sense to give them a separate article with a particular kind of template. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 14:29, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
Indeed, although I'm not sure how many train stations, even major ones, would fit this bill. Especially with hotels - most don't have any in them, and West Kowloon is probably one of very few that might have a direct connection to some. But yes, we should go to the pub and see how everyone feels. Besides, security can lead to some restrictive access to outside facilities, and some stations (maybe more in East Asia due to commuter lunches and bigger retail complexes) do have tons of food and drink options that a traveller would have to know about. MSG17 (talk) 01:07, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
I will now move this discussion to the pub. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 01:10, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────So now it's in the pub, here's the basic question, should we create separate articles for train stations like we do for airports? --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 01:12, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

What makes these stations too complicated for them to just be listings in city articles? Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:49, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

Airports are generally speaking in the middle of nowhere and most people who are there either leave as fast as they can or cannot leave. None of that is really true for train stations where the whole joke is that they are close in. Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:34, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

Although I'm sort of ambivalent about this, if you are travelling from London St Pancras, you'll clear both British outbound and French inbound immigration checks at the station if you are boarding the trains to France or Belgium, so you'll definitely need extra time compared to if you are boarding a domestic train. Of course, Hong Kong West Kowloon is different in that it does not have domestic trains, and all trains are bound for mainland China, so everyone needs to go through both Hong Kong and mainland China customs and immigration. The dog2 (talk) 14:08, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
What's the difficulty in simply mentioning that in the listing for the train station? I guess my feeling is that if so much content is required that it starts to overwhelm the article, we could possibly consider a separate article, but I don't see why it can't just be a section in an existing destination article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:19, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
I agree with Ikan Kekek. Show us a city article that has way too much information on a specific railway station, and then we can create a dedicated station article template. I note that the specific example of West Kowloon has only one short paragraph's worth of content on the HK article, which has apparently been sufficient for some time.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 19:16, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
To be fair, West Kowloon has only opened about a week ago. However, the consesus is correct - most stations really don't have enough info that they require their own article. The main rationale for me was that West Kowloon has extensive security checks for all passengers, so passengers would be stuck there for a while like in an airport and thus might have to buy there. It also helps that it has links to all sorts of public transport and some sights of its own. Since most railway stations, even major ones, are nothign like that (and train food doesn't exactly have the best reputation)(nevermind, see below), there isn't much info to add, as you noted. So yeah, it is probably best to look into migrating the content to fit the Hong Kong article. MSG17 (talk) 20:26, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
"train food" doesn't have the best reputation? Where did you get that from? Just the other day we had perfectly delightful Mexican food at Munich main station... And unlike airplane food, food in trains is actually unaffected by the fact that you're in a metal tube.Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:33, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
With regards to train food, you should try the ekiben next time your visit Japan. Some of them are actually pretty decent. And I've also had pretty decent tea eggs on the trains in China before they even built the first high speed line. The dog2 (talk) 00:02, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

Political Protests[edit]

BBC item - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-48615161, looks like this could be prolonged. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:50, 12 June 2019 (UTC)