Talk:Quebec

Québécois French is no more a "variant" form of French as American English is a variant of British English. This common error strikes us Québécois as an insult. Apart form a few lexical differences, what distingues our French from French-from-France is our accent, just like Americans speak English with an... american accent... Please correct this wrong impression of our language, French, which is our pride and which we cherish and protect in spite of our being surrounded by 300 million English speakers...

There are lexical differences, pronunciation differences, and some vocabulary differences. I think for non-Francophones, some of the more important ones are called out on this list. I don't know what to call Quebecois French except a "variant". Suggestions? --(WT-en) Evan 08:33, 15 Jul 2004 (EDT)

The word's "dialect". -- (WT-en) Nils 08:52, 15 Jul 2004 (EDT)

Yes, in terms of linguistics, Quebecer is a dialect of French -- just as Central French is. As a matter of fact, three different dialects of French are widely spoken in Quebec... This doesn't strike me as an insult. --(WT-en) Valmi 00:23, 16 Jul 2004 (EDT)

(They are, apart from the main one, the one from Saguenay--Lac-Saint-Jean and the one from Gaspésie--Îles-de-la-Madeleine.) --(WT-en) Valmi

Sépaq

Hmm, now the Sépaq copyrighed stuff has show up here... I'm going to remove it again and leave another note for the would-be contributor. He seems to mean well but doesn't understand the copyright issue... (WT-en) Majnoona 17:50, 2 Nov 2004 (EST)

California wines

I noted earlier that the SAQ doesn't have a lot of California wines; that was removed. I reinstated it, since it's a) true and b) something US travellers will notice. --(WT-en) Evan 17:02, 23 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Language

I rolled back the removal of the bit about dubbing shows and movies because it's a)true and b)it's an example of how Quebec-French and French-French are considered different... (WT-en) Majnoona 12:15, 8 Dec 2005 (EST)

travel

why are there so many families from quebec traveling at the same time in mid july??

In 1970, the Quebec government issued a decree setting guidelines for collective labour agreements in the construction industry. One of the requirements was for the last two weeks of July to be given as holidays. This created a sort of domino effect, I suppose because of people taking holidays as groups, and as a result it's now estimated that 25% of workers in Quebec take holidays in that 2-week period. see http://www.ccq.org/M_RegimeRelationsTravail/M3_ConventionsCollectives/M3_2_CongeVacances.aspx?lang=en&profil=Travailleur --216.98.57.65 12:26, 8 August 2006 (EDT)

This is great info for the guide! We we're just camping the last two weeks of July and it's unusally hard to find a spot! (WT-en) Maj 20:13, 8 August 2006 (EDT)

The "domino effect" of these two weeks is really significant. Montreal traffic thins down noticably, US-Canada border wait times skyrocket and many shops will be closed related to the construction industry but also random ones because everybody leaves together. A lot of people take their holidays inside the province so it might be advisable to check vacancies if you intend to visit during that time, as the previous comment mentions. But it's probably a good time to visit Montreal itself, it's more quiet and the tourism industry is likely the only one actually picking up during those two weeks. -Lp (a Montrealer)

you should mention air transat as the least expensiva of all airline companies. they fly for around 450 euros return from paris to quebec city non stop, no other company beats this, all other that i saw costed aroun 200 euros more. —The preceding comment was added by 78.52.235.190 (talk • contribs)

You just edited the article to include that information. (WT-en) LtPowers 21:31, 15 May 2010 (EDT)

Whew!

I have been thinking about another visit to Canada, last one was about 20 years ago. Sooo. I turn here. This text:Note also that Quebec is not France. Jokes about French stereotypes (Jerry Lewis, poor hygiene, eating frogs' legs, and especially "surrendering": Americans making such a comment are likely to be gently reminded that their country was still neutral when Quebecers, like other Canadians, had already been fighting Germany for two years) will bring puzzled stares, or at best show that you have no idea which continent you're on. And comparing Quebecois culture and language unfavorably to France's is probably not a path to go down, either. Although Quebec and France have many ties, the Quebecois typically regard themselves as a distinct culture quite separate from the country that "abandoned" them three centuries ago. The cultures are so divergent that, in extreme cases, Québécois and Français speaking French to one another will not be mutually intelligible due to linguistic differences. Visitors from France are advised to avoid using overly-familiar terms to refer to a kinship between themselves and a Quebecois where none may exist; the term "p'ti cousin" (little cousin) can be particularly inflammatory. Somewhat reminds me of differences between the North and South in USA after the civil war and I do not know if it should be included in a "travel article". Seems more like a political commentary and is a bit scary to a potential visitor. Is this a sort of KKK (white supremecy/skinhead) thing or what. Sounds like someone needs to grow up. (WT-en) 2old 13:39, 3 August 2007 (EDT)

I didn't find it particularly offensive at first read, but maybe it's because I'm from there :P. It mostly just outlines the fact that, yes, we're not France, we're not USA and we're also different from the rest of Canada. Anyone who's been around a bit will tend to agree with these three facts. Different doesn't mean better, Quebec just has it's own distinct personality which is a blend of American, French and Latin culture.

But, you're probably right. Cultural identity IS a somewhat sensitive issue here and altough lot of people might take offense if you make fun of it (willingly or not) it's probably true of any country, and therefore that extra paragraph brings no extra value over what was already exposed in the rest of the Respect section. As a Quebecer and Montrealer the main point I'd like to convey to tourists is that we're welcoming, tolerant and open-minded. That blurb does exactly the opposite.. I also really can't identify with what it pretends I should find offensive (Eating frog legs?? Come on, who cares!?). Burn it down! -Lp 70.81.26.125 11:06, 3 September 2007 (EDT)

Guide status

I've downgraded this article to usable from guide for two reasons, per the Project:Region guide status guidelines:

1. Some improper formatting of external links
2. Not all linked destinations (regions/cities/other) are at usable status or better
3. Cities list should be reduced to 9

After these three issues are resolved, this excellent article can move up to guide status. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 18:23, 9 March 2008 (EDT)

Four ways to discover Quebec

This section bugs me-- it seems to be propaganda from Bonjour Quebec (though not an outright copyvio) that does not fit our MoS for tone. The relevant information should be folded into the proper sections. I am pasting it here for reference. (WT-en) Maj 16:13, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

Moved "Panoramic Driving Tours" to here. Again, good info, but not our style.(WT-en) Maj 19:11, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

For easier reference, Talk:Quebec/Driving is the link to the driving tours. I've put the Chemin du Roy route, heavily edited, into Quebec Region#Itineraries. I'm about to drive it tomorrow. (WT-en) JimDeLaHunt 00:22, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

Region boundaries

This article lists 21 tourist regions in the province. I have two suggestions for improving this. First, add more details to this article about what are the boundaries for each region. For instance, I'm planning a drive from Québec (city) to Montréal, and I don't know which of these regions lies in between those two cities. Second, it's Wikivoyage practice to break each region into 7 +/- 2 subregions. 21 is a few too many. Perhaps we could divide this province into 7 travel regions, and break a few of those regions into subregions? Any comments? I'll work on this as I have time. (WT-en) JimDeLaHunt 12:15, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

• These regions may be derived from the Québec (provincial) tourist office's breakdown at http://www.bonjourquebec.com/ca-en/regions0.html . They have a map there, and I'll start adding a description to each entry (taking care not to plagiarise the tourist office, of course). (WT-en) JimDeLaHunt 20:55, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

I'm going to take a shot at organizing all of these regions into something more manageable. For the most part, I've used the existing regions and grouped them together into something that (I hope!) makes sense...

Proposed region structure for Quebec

Outaouais-Laurentides (Outaouais, Lanaudière, Laurentides) The Quebec side of the Ottawa River valley and the western part of the Laurentian mountains. Generally an area of mountains and forests with plenty of outdoors activities; it is topped by Mont-Tremblant, the largest ski area in Quebec. Gatineau, as part of the National Capital Region, has many fine museums.

Montreal Region The culturally rich and lively city of Montreal plus its suburbs. It would include Montreal, Laval and suburban cities on the south shore that are currently part of Montérégie.

Montérégie-Eastern Townships (Montérégie, Eastern Townships) Small towns, farmland, lakes and hills immediately south and south-east of Montreal. Parts of the area were settled by Loyalists from the American Revolution giving the area a bit of a New England feel. Sherbrooke is the largest city in the region.

Central Quebec (Quebec Region, Bas-Saint-Laurent, Centre-du-Québec, Chaudière-Appalaches, Mauricie, Charlevoix, Saguenay-Lac-St-Jean) This is the heartland of Quebec. Quebec City is the capital of the province with a European feel and charming Old Town. To the southwest is the prime agricultural part of the province, while to the north are forests, mountains and one of the few fjords on the east coast of Canada (note - some of these regions can probably be combined to reduce the number).

The Gaspé and North Shore (or, in French, Gaspesie-Côte-Nord) (Gaspé Peninsula, Îles-de-la-Madeleine, Manicouagan) The rugged coastal region of Quebec east of Quebec City with small towns and villages hugging the coast and wilderness inland. I've included Rimouski (part of Bas-Saint-Laurent) in this region. I'm not sure if it's officially considered part of the Gaspe, but it is well along the road to the region and has ferry connections with the North Shore.

Northern Quebec (Abitibi-Témiscamingue, Baie-James, Nunavik) The sparsely inhabited north and northwestern region of the province with logging and mining towns and hydro electric projects.

What are people's thoughts? (note - the map needs a bit of work, the Montreal Region was a last minute change so it doesn't have a separate colour yet. It would be a thin strip between the blue and green regions.) -(WT-en) Shaund 14:17, 1 January 2010 (EST)

I don't know enough about the region to comment on the specifics, but as usual with your work, I'll voice that this looks just about perfect per our abstract policies. --(WT-en) Peter ^Talk 14:32, 1 January 2010 (EST)

I think you did a really great job to break down the Quebec regions to make them more understandable. I did a division of my own on the Quebec page, trying to make it reflective of how a tourist might experience it. I went with one big region called "Montreal and southwestern Quebec". To me, it would be unusual to visit the Laurentians, Lanaudiere or Monteregie without also visiting Montreal. (A case can be made that the Outaouais and the Eastern Townships are far enough away from Montreal to deserve their own regions, but then we end up with too many top-level regions.) I also divided the north shore from the Gaspé because it's inconvenient to travel from one side of the St.Lawrence to the other at that end of the river. I was tempted to put Saguenay in the Quebec City region, like you did, but they are really far from each other. Reasonable people can disagree, I would be interested to know what you think.(WT-en) Galteglise 11:01, 22 January 2010 (EST)

Thanks, I think the changes you made were good. One of my first ideas for Quebec regions was a "Montreal and Southwestern Quebec" region so we were pretty close. I was also undecided about where to put the Saguenay - a Northeastern Quebec region works for me. I'm hoping to get time over the next couple of weeks to draw a map based on your regions and upload it to the page.

I was wondering what you thought about the breakdown of subregions for Montreal and Southwestern Quebec. I was thinking that Montreal, Laval and cities on the south shore like Longueuil and Brossard could be combined into a Greater Montreal (basically anything the Metro reached). To me, it seems like a sensible grouping since they're all within easy reach of Montreal, but I'd like to know your thoughts since you're much closer to the area. (WT-en) Shaund 01:15, 23 January 2010 (EST)

Good idea. I might suggest adding a bit more to Greater Montreal, to cover the area connected to Montreal by train: Montreal, Laval, those suburbs just north of Laval (Mirabel, Blainville) and about half of the Montérégie: Mont-Saint-Hilaire, Mont-Saint-Bruno, Longueuil, Brossard, Kahnawake, Chateauguay, Vaudreuil, Hudson, Rigaud. The other subregions of Montreal-Southwestern Quebec could be Laurentians-Lanaudière (they are similar enough to be treated together on one page) and the Eastern Townships (which could be treated together with the part of the Montérégie not in Greater Montreal).

Having thought about it, it might make sense to bump up Outaouais and Saguenay as separate top-level regions of Quebec. Outaouais is quite far from Montreal (and really far from the Eastern Townships, if they are all being treated as the same region); it's really a place you would visit during a trip to Ottawa, rather than a trip to Montreal. As for Saguenay, it's a very distinctive region of Quebec (own culture, own accent, own geography) much different (and really far) from the small riverside towns that make up Manicouagan and Duplessis. That would make seven regions for Quebec (Outaouais, Montreal-Southwestern, Quebec City-Central, Saguenay, Eastern, Northeastern, Northern), which seems about right. (WT-en) Galteglise 18:03, 5 February 2010 (EST)

I finally got around to mapping this. Also followed Galteglise's suggestion above and put the Saguenay (as Saguenay-Lac-St-Jean) and Outaouais regions as top level regions. Will update the regions structure shortly.

Didn't do anything about a possible Greater Montreal region since I don't have much a feel for it. For now, SW Quebec consists of four regions with Laval and Montreal as cities outside of the sub-region structure. (WT-en) Shaund 14:36, 19 October 2010 (EDT)

Vandalism?

Apparently someone had an unpleasant experience there recently, & decided to vent a few hostilities (WT-en) Scott S 11:03, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

And it was reverted 42 minutes after it was caused — maybe even before you posted this comment! You can help too: see Project:How to handle unwanted edits. (WT-en) JimDeLaHunt 01:41, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

cities

Should we really be having cities w/o article on here? (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] ^.T.A.L.K. 18:20, 26 December 2008 (EST).

Yes, that way people know to write them up. (WT-en) Jpatokal 21:03, 26 December 2008 (EST)

Specific Detail ..

What about population , popularity, etc ??

184.163.238.18 20:56, 3 May 2011 (EDT)

What about it? (WT-en) LtPowers 22:57, 3 May 2011 (EDT)

Accents

This is the English version of Wikivoyage, so it makes sense to user the English spelling of Montreal and Quebec, unless they are part of the name of an pension that is shown in French, e.g., Société des alcools du Québec, the accent should be preserved. For places where there is no commonly used English name, like Trois-Rivières and Sept-Îles, keeping the French orthography makes sense. I could go either way about "Quebecois". It's a French word that had been adopted into Canadian English, but I left the accents in. Quebec editors should be careful about editing this article, and remember were writing for an international audience for whom things like "CLSC" will be meaningless. Ground Zero (talk) 19:23, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

I see no real need to remove accents just for the sake of doing so. There are plenty of words in English which are very blatant franglais (maître d'hôtel, chargé d'affaires, cinema matinée, café au lait, divorcée, fiancée and the like) which have the accents and are no less comprehensible for their use, much like piñata is an obviously-Spanish word and left as-is as such. If something has an actually-different name in another language (such as "Rivière des Outaouais"/"Ottawa River") that's another matter. I disagree with an accents-stripped "quebecois" as that's neither proper French (where it's "québécois/e") nor proper English (where "Quebecker" is the anglophone term). If "CLSC" is meaningless, that's not because of language alone - I'd expect it means absolutely nothing to a Swiss or an Algerian - and the same issues would apply to any governmental acronym like CENTRO or MARTA. K7L (talk) 19:01, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

I have no problem with accents, except that as an aside, I don't like accents being enforced in words like "cafe" in articles about places throughout the world. In the U.S., we usually omit accents and treat words like "cafe" as full-fledged English. I think this could be a difference between American and Canadian English, with Canadians respecting accents more, and therefore, maybe in articles about Canada, the accents should be used. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:24, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Quebec and Montreal are English placenames as much as they are French placenames becsuse they have been used in English for so long. The words that you noted are foreign words/phrases used in English, so it is the norm to keep the accents. When foreign words become English words, they usually drop the accent, like hotel. Divorcée, fiancée keep their accents because without them, the pronunciation changes, although Ivsn's point is valid: your probably never see the accents in US English. Ground Zero (talk) 20:37, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Not never, just not nearly all the time, and the more a word is considered truly English, as in "cafe", the less you see it in the U.S. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:57, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Just for completeness, and as it may be the source of some of the confusion: British usage often retains the accents on words like café, naïve, façade, although many people wouldn't know how to type them. 130.226.12.38 21:35, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

Northernmost border point?

From "Get in#By car", second-last sentence:

" Quebec's northernmost international port of entry is US Route 201, which becomes Route 173 toward Saint-Georges."

No. Not even close. The northernmost point of entry is Estcourt (Pohénégamook) which is so far into the sticks (as the northernmost point in Maine) that the only way to get to it without crossing into Canada is to spend a few hours on barely-passable Maine logging roads. There was an international incident several years back where US border guards tried that stunt just to bust someone for buying petrol in some timeslot when the tiny local custom house was closed. Supposedly the population of Estcourt Station was 4 back before the COVID pandemic, no idea if there's anyone left now but the crossing does legally still exist as the logging trucks are supposedly "essential" and Québec makes a good sneaky shortcut for them. —The preceding comment was added by 66.102.87.40 (talk • contribs)

I hope you corrected that in the article. If you didn't, please do so now. Thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:39, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

"Eat" description

This is the first paragraph of "Eat":

Quebec’s cuisine derives its rich flavour from a blend of influences. It has a solid French culinary base and is enriched by the contribution of the Amerindian peoples and the different cultural communities that have made the province their home. This blend of culinary cultures is what makes Quebec cuisine what it is today. Many quality regional products are also used in its cuisine. Terroir products that grace Quebec tables include ice cider, micro-brewed beer, wine and over 100 different varieties of cheese.

I think it fails to give an easily understandable description of the cuisine while also being redundant, with overlong sentences, and listy. I may be wrong, but the way I'd like to summarize Quebecois cuisine is more like:

"When in Quebec, expect a hearty, stick-to-your-ribs cuisine as exemplified by poutine, its major contribution to the fast food industry, and lots of meat-and-potatoes stews to help fuel hard labour and keep you warm during the long winter months. As you might expect, it has commonalities with both French and American cuisines, with notable contributions from Indigenous ingredients and techniques and by other communities that arrived as immigrants."

The terroir products are important to mention but should be in a different paragraph. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:48, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

"Amerindian" is a term used by anthropologists that is not used in everyday speech, and certainly not by the First Nations of Canada, as it is a portmanteau of two exonyms. It would be better to use "Indigenous". And Canadian spelling ("labour"). Ground Zero (talk) 22:04, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

That makes perfect sense, so I'll make those edits here, but what do you think about the rest of my points? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:09, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

Okay by me, but it would benefit from input by @Veillg1:. Ground Zero (talk) 22:11, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes, in terms of content, and their input would definitely be welcome. I think, though, that we native English-speakers are better at producing a brief, to-the-point summary from that information. Ground Zero, I think you accidentally copied most or all of the threads that were on this page a couple of edits ago. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:24, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

Sorry about that. I don't know how that could have happened. Thanks for fixing it. Ground Zero (talk) 00:50, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

It doesn't look like I fixed all of the duplication. I'll try to eliminate what I see. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:38, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

"Northeastern Quebec"

That name on the map seems to refer to the North Shore (Quebec) region. Could someone make the appropriate change on the static map? If it's easy to make, please let me know how to do it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:01, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

@Ikan Kekek: Done. Updated the png file (which is the one that's used in the article), though I kept getting an error when I tried to update the svg file. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 04:54, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

"Quebec cuisine" thumbnail

Could a more specific caption be substituted for that? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:02, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

A 300km gap in the road

Swept in from the pub

Just noticed something odd in the route box at the bottom of Bonne-Espérance#Go_next, Blanc-Sablon#Go_next, Forteau#Go_next and Petit-Mécatina#Go_next - the route looks like this:

Routes through Quebec

New York State ← Elgin ← Montréal ←

W  E

→ Kegaska→(discontinued between Kegaska and Bonne-Espérance)→Bonne-Espérance→Blanc-Sablon → Blanc-Sablon→Labrador

Does it make sense to claim that QC138, the road through Vieux-Fort, goes to Malone (New York)? If there's a 300km+ gap with no road of any kind, for all intents and purposes the "chemin du roy" from Massena->Mtl->ville de Québec->Kegasha and the road from Vieux-Fort to Blanc-Sablon are really two different, disconnected highways... even if they do have the same number (QC138). If the road ends for 350km, you are not driving to Malone. 204.237.90.118 01:49, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

I believe these routeboxes were added by @Veillg1:, who is currently the subject of a userban nomination. Agree that a 300-km gap is way too far, in addition to the routebox being overly long. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 01:52, 19 November 2022 (UTC)