Talk:Tallinn

From Wikivoyage
Jump to navigation Jump to search

Could anyone give me a range for budget, mid-range, and splurge prices at hotels? Thanks. -- (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 10:30, 30 June 2006 (EDT)

Deletion[edit]

Is there a reason (ie no longer in business or not a place to recommend) why the following was deleted? (WT-en) Maj 23:23, 22 October 2006 (EDT)

  • Vana Tom youth hostel, Vaike-Karja 1, +372 6313252 (fax: +372 6120611), [1]. Very centrally situated in the Old Town, so can be a little noisy. Situated in the same building as a strip club. A breakfast of a ham/cheese baguette, egg, fruit juice and piece of fruit is included. Clean, comfortable dorms. 235 EEK for a triple-decker dorm bed.

Olympic ruins!? What ruins? At least by the looks just about everything that was built for the 1980 Olympics is still in usable condition, most of the facilities have been renovated...

bicycle[edit]

no mention to bicycle on transportation. Who can help?

  • added some information about cycling (WT-en) Helge123 04:52, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

New pictures?[edit]

The page tallinn.fotonet.ee allows usage of its pictures for promotion of Tallinn directed at tourists (http://tallinn.fotonet.ee/eng/front/terms_of_use). Could anyone update this page with pictures from tallinn.fotonet.ee? (WT-en) Helge123 17:24, 26 October 2009 (EDT)

Nice! not sure it falls within our scope though, as anyone should be allowed to reuse wikivoyage content, not just websites or people promoting Tallinn. You could always contact them and see if they will allow you to reuse content under a free Creative Commons license. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) talk 17:40, 26 October 2009 (EDT)
I spoke to the administrator of the picture bank and she told me that Wikivoyage can use the pictures if the authors are given credit. So everything should be OK? (WT-en) Helge123 04:28, 27 October 2009 (EDT)

Safety :))))))[edit]

Where from that information comes? Some idiot says and you trust him?

I live in Lasnamäe and walk with my dog every evening at 23:00 to 0:00, but haven't seen serious crime solvings since 1990's. Or you've seen druguser once or thief and after it you made this inference?

It is not reason to avoid real life cause government social politics and their way of "solving" social and poverty problems.

Also, I'm sure you can find thiefs even in Germany, Spain, China and other countries, so why you write like it is disaster? Or thiefs live only in Estonia?

Just be careful:

  • 1) wear your expensive camera under the clothes
  • 2) take small cash with you - 500-600 EEK is enough
  • 2.1) don't ever walk with cash 20000 EUR in your pocket, keep it on your card, which password is only known by you
  • 3) don't take gold or other jewellery, leave it in hotel during walking
  • 4) don't drink with unknown people
  • 5) if you have met thiefs, remember, nobody will come to help, so defend yourself by your hands and legs and make all actions correct and quick [Unsigned]
Hello. If you think anything in the article is inaccurate, please stop complaining and plunge forward and edit it yourself! Thanks. And in talk places, please sign your posts by typing 4 tildes (the "~" key) in a row. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 20:19, 29 June 2012 (EDT)

Student Travelers Tallinn[edit]

Deleted as it is under new management with a new name.

Walking tours and apartments[edit]

Isn't Wikivoyage's tour policy to delete ordinary walking tours, on the basis that an individual traveler could walk the same route on his/her own? I also refer you to this related discussion on a walking tour listing: [2] It seems to me that, unless we revisit the tour policy, there should be no "Walking tours" subsection, and the only listing now there that should remain is the Secret Tunnels Tour, because those are probably hard to access without a tour guide. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 06:19, 23 June 2012 (EDT)

I agree, and I removed the tours per policy. Do we accept apartment listings in this article, there was no discussion to allow them. Jjtk (talk) 21:29, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
All the apartment owners should explain how their listings fit within the guidelines at apt and seek a consensus. Apartment.ee's listing is, in any case, incomplete, as it must include information about their office. TallinnApartment.info is problematic because their website seems to be only in Russian. The other two listings may be serviced apartments; that's what they seem like, based on what's in their websites. I'm tempted to delete the entire apartment section for now. Do you agree that's justified as a matter of policy? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:42, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
Yes, but be helpful to them, us (and, therefore, the Traveller) by perhaps creating a new "Apartments" subheading with an HTML commented out section explaining clearly and exactly what information we need and in what style in order to have/retain a listing... -- Alice 01:10, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
Having a blank "Apartments" subheading is a clear invitation for the same or other apartments to be listed without discussion, and it's been my experience that listers who are self-interested never - absolutely never - read commented-out sections. I think it would be fine to list serviced apartments, but the owners need to discuss their properties here and seek consensus, then follow the format shown at apt.Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:27, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
The wiki way is to have a modicum of trust in casual editors. My experience of editing the Vietnam page on Wititravel, is that if you promptly remove the spammers content every time it's inserted, they give up after about 2 months - your mileage may vary. The important thing is to provide clear guidance by an HTML commented out section explaining clearly and exactly what information we need and in what style so that there is a carrot and stick effect. Good listings stay, bad ones are swiftly and consistently removed. That's the beauty of having a watch list with e-mailed notifications of changes. You may find that you even get some new interested editors by following the wiki principles... -- Alice 20:06, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
The problem is that even having an "Apartments" section in a particular article requires a consensus, and no-one has requested a consensus. So are you, therefore, advancing the opinion that there should be a consensus to have an "Apartments" section in the Talinn guide, in particular? If so, please make the argument based on the criteria at apt. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:20, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

I simply assumed that, since the criteria are very clear, someone knowledgeable about Talinn had already decided that Talinn was a location "where rental properties are a common form of travel accommodation" and all the requirements at apt were met. I assumed this because, on reading the history of this article, Jjtk seemed to have a long term interest in maintaining this article and had already done good work in both alphabetising and winnowing the list. I assumed that if s/he did not think the requirements were met s/he would have plunged forward and deleted all the apartment listings as per policy rather than edited them. I am not qualified to opine on whether the criteria are met or not. Certainly from the prices and other details displayed in the current listings, and a quick search of the web, apartments seem to be a viable option for a traveller wanting to spend 2 weeks or more in Talinn. The fact that there has been no discussion or no bid to remove them in a long while could, in itself, be a sign of consensus or equally it could just be a sign that this article has been neglected over a long period of time. However, if we take Apt at face value, then since there has been no discussion, the listings should be removed... -- Alice 00:46, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Your opinion, Jjtk or others? Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:41, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
I think that it is enough to mention that rental apartments exist. A single line in the beginning of the Sleep section would suffice. I am a bit familiar with Tallinn, and I live here from time to time. Most apartments are semi-official or even completely private. They do not have a business address and do not conform to our requirements. Additionally, they are subject to changes: every apartment may be rented for 2-3 months in a row and, thus, remain unavailable for short-term visitors. Finally, Tallinn has plenty of cheap hotels and hostels, so we can simply avoid dubious listings of rental apartments. --Alexander (talk) 07:15, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
I agree. Jjtk (talk) 08:09, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
I added a sentence. Do you think it's helpful or mostly an invitation to repost apartment listings? Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:28, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
I don't know. Let's see! --Alexander (talk) 20:27, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
Sure. Thanks for helping. :-) Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:34, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Kroon[edit]

Please would someone update the prices given in kroon to euros (eg: Patarei (Battery) Prison) ? -- Alice 23:03, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Remaining tasks[edit]

I'd like to nominate Tallinn for a DotM feature, but I feel like it's important for it to have a map and a useful "Climate" section first. Also, I just converted a bunch of legacy footnote-style external links to front links (I think that's what the current style is called), but I undoubtedly missed some. Is there anything else that needs to be done? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:38, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Climate[edit]

Tallinn
Climate chart (explanation)
JFMAMJJASOND
 
 
 
49
 
 
−1
−6
 
 
 
32
 
 
−2
−7
 
 
 
31
 
 
2
−4
 
 
 
30
 
 
9
1
 
 
 
36
 
 
15
5
 
 
 
57
 
 
19
10
 
 
 
74
 
 
22
13
 
 
 
73
 
 
20
12
 
 
 
60
 
 
15
8
 
 
 
65
 
 
9
4
 
 
 
61
 
 
3
−1
 
 
 
49
 
 
0
−4
Average max. and min. temperatures in °C
Precipitation+Snow totals in mm
Imperial conversion
JFMAMJJASOND
 
 
 
1.9
 
 
30
22
 
 
 
1.3
 
 
29
19
 
 
 
1.2
 
 
36
24
 
 
 
1.2
 
 
49
33
 
 
 
1.4
 
 
59
41
 
 
 
2.2
 
 
66
49
 
 
 
2.9
 
 
71
55
 
 
 
2.9
 
 
69
54
 
 
 
2.4
 
 
59
46
 
 
 
2.6
 
 
49
39
 
 
 
2.4
 
 
38
31
 
 
 
1.9
 
 
33
24
Average max. and min. temperatures in °F
Precipitation+Snow totals in inches

This is some climate data I extracted from WP, we might use it in the climate section. Any other source for data? I'll try to find the day lengths at least. Danapit (talk) 08:59, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

The day lengths are from climatemps.com. Danapit (talk) 09:22, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
It needs at least a dynamic map. I'm "almost a local" so maybe I should take a more thorough look at the article, unfortunately I'll be very busy for the next few weeks. Danapit, did you plan to put the length of the day into the weather box? I can't remember seeing anything else than max and min temp and precipitation in WV's weather boxes. ϒpsilon (talk) 09:23, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
Yes, actually the template enables quite a few parameters. I find day length is quite useful. The problem is where you get the data for monthly snowfall and water temperature from? Danapit (talk) 09:36, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
No rush, Ypsilon, since we probably won't want to run this article until the weather gets warm again after the winter, in any case. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:01, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Geo and unnecessary stuff[edit]

I have now added geocodings to all listings. For the embassies the green boxes beside next to the flags look a little bit "too much". The apartment listings that were discussed earlier and that are currently hidden... I would throw them in the trash can per Apt. And then we have the hairdressers in the "Cope" section. Yes, it's not uncommon for Finns to use services like hairdressing, beauty salons, opticians, dentists etc. in Tallinn because they are comparatively affordable (and "everyone and their dog" goes there for shopping, partying or on a mini holiday at least 2-3 times/year anyways - a bit like Tijuana). But for visitors from further away I don't think they're that relevant. ϒpsilon (talk) 17:59, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

DotM?[edit]

I definitely don't have the energy to create the nomination right now, but the article seems very good. If any of you feel it's ready for a nomination, I'd be likely to support it. But I may have missed something. Is there anything that still needs to be done before this article is ready? Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:22, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

I'd say the article is in a pretty good shape now and I can write that DotM entry. ϒpsilon (talk) 18:08, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Old town picture[edit]

Mates, the main picture from the old town Tallinn is a good one but imho it doesn't reflect the center as it is green around but not in the center. Any opposition to change to

View from KGB Museum on the top floor of Viru Sikos hotel to the Old Town

jan (talk) 10:07, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Your picture does indeed give a better view over Vana linn. Of course the weather could be better, but I'd say let's add your picture anyway. ϒpsilon (talk) 19:58, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

ϒpsilon, would should happen with Tallinn#Learn? I think it either should be deleted because the names of the universities don't help or we enter some Eesti courses. What you prefer? jan (talk) 16:28, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

It would be best to have something useful to put in the section, short courses in Estonian language/culture etc. I would be surprised if there wouldn't be any such courses in Tallinn (arranged by the university maybe?).
Otherwise the section would of course have to be deleted. ϒpsilon (talk) 16:34, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Old House[edit]

I recently added a listing for Old House Hostel at Uus 26. There seems to already be a listing for Old House at Uus 22, but it's about apartments, not hostel rooms. I was unable to find anything at Uus 22 on the Old House website. Their apartments seem to be located at Rataskaevu 16, on the opposite side of the Old Town. I have been only once to Old House, in the hostel at Uus 26, two and a half years ago. What is the situation here? Do they have premises at Uus 22 or not? Should the listings be merged? JIP (talk) 19:51, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Uus 22 is indeed not mentioned at their homepage at all... nor at booking dot com, tripadvisor, hotels dot com or anywhere else. All of them say it's at Uus 26, so it's pretty safe to believe that's the correct number and remove the other one. It may well be that the hostel has been at #22 several years ago and they've now moved. ϒpsilon (talk) 20:07, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Parallel discussion from the pub[edit]

Swept in from the pub

Apologies if this is in the wrong place.

I recently added a listing for Old House Hostel in Tallinn at Uus 26. There seems to already be a listing for Old House at Uus 22, but it's about apartments, not hostel rooms. I was unable to find anything at Uus 22 on the Old House website. Their apartments seem to be located at Rataskaevu 16, on the opposite side of the Old Town. I have been only once to Old House, in the hostel at Uus 26, two and a half years ago. What is the situation here? Do they have premises at Uus 22 or not? Should the listings be merged? JIP (talk) 19:52, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi JIP! If there is no 1-day accommodation at Uus 22, then the listing at Uus 22 should be deleted. Could you please do it? Thanks for caring! Nicolas1981 (talk) 03:09, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
That's too strict a standard. Surely, a place with a week's minimum stay would serve many visitors, and in fact, Wikivoyage:Apt has the following standard:
Apartments or cabins must be available for rentals of one week or less Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:55, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
Already fixed per Talk:Tallinn#Old House. ϒpsilon (talk) 09:58, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Maiasmokk[edit]

Swept in from the pub

Where to list Maiasmokk in the article Tallinn at? It's a café and a confectionery shop. The article Tallinn only lists famous sights, stores, restaurants, bars, nightclubs, and hotels. I don't Maiasmokk falls into any of these categories. JIP (talk) 19:54, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Wycsi. Cafés are listed in either Drink (if there's a separate Café section, which Tallinn does not have and it's unnecessary to make a heading for just one place) or Eat. While I don't know this establishment, I would probably list it in Eat (likely under Budget, as it's a café?). On the other hand if it is more of a shop than a café, list the place in Buy. ϒpsilon (talk) 20:11, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. I've added it to Eat/Budget. JIP (talk) 19:24, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

Districtify[edit]

In Russian Wikivoyage, Tallinn is districtified. Would that be something worth considering here as well? With 33 See, 12 Do (some don't have coordinates yet), 19 Buy, 30 Eat, 21 Drink, and 38 Sleep listings, there's no need to districtify Tallinn yet but we're getting there.

However, they've divided the city into seven districts which I feel is too much. If Tallinn is districtified I'd go with something like this:

  • 1. Old town: within the walls.
  • 2. Central Tallinn: Kesklinn minus the old town, maybe not the whole administrative Kesklinn but just as far as the airport or even closer to the old town? It could also include the Kalamaja district; overall places reasonably close to the port where most visitors arrive anyways – like a horseshoe encircling the old town with the open end pointing southwest. Not sure if Kadriorg should be added here or in the eastern part.
  • 3. East: Eastern part, ie. Lasnamäe, Pirita, outermost parts of administrative Kesklinn east of Lake Ülemiste.
  • 4. West: The rest, ie. Põhja-Tallinn minus Kalamaja, Haabersti, Kristiine, Mustamäe, Nõmme, west of the lake.

--Ypsilon (talk) 11:21, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

And Italian WV into even more districts than Russian WV, plus the division doesn't correspond to the one used in ru-WV. So there's no need to copy them (we'd end up with many short articles), but I'd rather say that the division I suggested above would work well for us. --Ypsilon (talk) 07:50, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
I dont know. Looking at the markers the concentration is pretty much in one district, so all we would achieve is, to reduce the listing maybe by 10% for one district and have a couple of stub district. Tallin is really packed, IMHO, and most sights could be reached by foot when I was there.
Maybe a better approach would be to clear the listings a little, especially to cut back on ordinary restaurants and accommodations in general. I think WV is in too much competition over this information with G, TripA, and BooKing anyhow.
Cheers Ceever (talk) 14:06, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
It's true that the old town is the number one attraction of Tallinn by far (and this will almost automatically mean a considerable share of Tallinn's listings are there), though it's actually quite common that one or two (central) district(s) have half of a city's listings. Nevertheless I'm not too much of a fan of deleting listings for places that are open. Perhaps best to leave the article as it is, then. --Ypsilon (talk) 15:05, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:55, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

Not visible in the article, but Actually it is, right in the beginning of Sleep, how did I miss it? this Soviet-era "skyscraper" is probably the most iconic hotel in the city so we may want to have a pic of it (uploaded locally?). --Ypsilon (talk) 20:21, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
Sure, if you'd like to use it in the article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:52, 20 February 2021 (UTC)