User talk:Atsirlin

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Hello Atsirlin! Welcome to Wikivoyage.

To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page. If you need help, check out Project:Help, or post a message in the travellers' pub.

You might also be interested to take a look at the Russian version of Wikivoyage. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 13:29, 3 December 2008 (EST)

Vladimir[edit]

Just wanted to say that you're doing really fantastic work on Vladimir—thanks! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 20:35, 9 December 2008 (EST)

Well, thanks a lot. Vladimir is one of the places that I really like. So I want to help people (especially foreigners) to learn about it.(WT-en) Atsirlin 02:26, 10 December 2008 (EST)
It's starting to look really really good! Maybe add a few more places to eat and some bars - and then I think it should be nominated for our Monthly Off the Beaten Path feature. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 20:48, 14 December 2008 (EST)
I will certainly add more places for eating, drinking, and sleeping. Yesterday I simply wrote about few places that I knew myself. Still, I doubt if it makes sense to put Vladimir as "Off the Beaten Path". Vladimir is one of the basic Russian destinations following Moscow and St. Petersburg. (WT-en) Atsirlin 02:17, 15 December 2008 (EST)
Just to let you know, I have nominated the article for destination of the month. You've done great work on the article, and it's currently one of the best, if not the best, article we have for any destination in the Russian Federation. Thanks! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 02:32, 24 February 2009 (EST)
Thanks from me too. Just FYI, everybody is welcome to discuss the nominations for Destination of the Month, even if they are major contributors — in fact, it's quite common to propose "your" articles. (WT-en) Jpatokal 06:33, 24 February 2009 (EST)

Cities, towns, etc.[edit]

Regarding this edit, [1] "cities," at least in the American understanding, can be used as a general term to describe any town, village, or what have you (любой населённый пункт). That's the way Wikivoyage uses the term as well. So it's ok to put even a small hamlet like Bogolyubovo in that section. "Other destinations" is restricted to only non-city destinations, like parks, or an isolated monastery, etc. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 13:45, 25 February 2009 (EST)

Sorry, I did not know that. (WT-en) Atsirlin 15:27, 25 February 2009 (EST)

photo deleted[edit]

Hi Atsirlin, First, let me add to the compliments about the great work you do for the Vladimir page--it is a very useful and informative page and a great service. I have a question about your approach to editing. Yesterday I added a photo of the Russian Village Hotel, which I took when I stayed there. You removed the photo. In my opinion, having photos of hotels is very useful to tourists unfamiliar to a town. Did you remove it because you do not want to give undue prominence to any one establisment, because there was an issue with the photo itself, or for some other reason? Given the amount of work you have put into this page, I will respect your judgment, but it would help to understand your approach here. Best, omocha.

Actually, I did not find the photo itself: it was not shown in the article. That's the reason for the reverse of your edit. I did not remove the photo (I can't do this, since I am not an administrator). Could you please provide the valid link to the file? Basically, the file should be uploaded to the proper directory on Wikivoyage Shared. (WT-en) Atsirlin 17:50, 15 March 2009 (EDT)

Yuzhno[edit]

Hey Alexander, thanks a bunch for your updates on Yuzhno Sakhalinsk, it's really awesome to see this guide expanding! --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) talk 18:17, 14 August 2010 (EDT)

You are welcome-) I also hope to improve other articles of this region (some day...) BTW, have you ever tried (of thought of) drawing a map? (WT-en) Atsirlin 19:06, 14 August 2010 (EDT)
I can't find any free sources, if you can help me find some I'd be happy to make one --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) talk 04:54, 15 August 2010 (EDT)
It is always a tricky thing in Russia... I have two maps which are clearly scans from some paper source. Their copyright status is, of course, unclear (needless to say, you can easily download them without any notice of the copyright). Since the city layout is rather simple, I thought of taking these maps as a rough basis (without re-drawing them) and satellite photo as an additional reference. I believe that it still counts as "own work" from the copyright point of view. Otherwise, we have no chance to create maps for most of Russian cities. What do you think about it? And how did you manage the maps of Korsakov and Khabarovsk? (WT-en) Atsirlin 06:41, 15 August 2010 (EDT)

Russian roads[edit]

Do you know of a good online source for clearer Russian road maps? I've been trying to find ones that would plainly demarcate both A## and P## type roads, but at best I can only find maps that show M## and A## type roads clearly. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 10:59, 13 July 2011 (EDT)

Unfortunately, there is nothing because of the very messy road system. First, the M/A/P classification is now obsolete. Oddly enough, new roads do not get any numbers. They are referred using the starting and ending points (cities, villages, or even crossings with other roads); very inconvenient. Second, some of the roads are so bad that they are simply impassable for a regular car, even though the maps will show them as normal "paved roads". This may also happen to the old numbered roads (not often, though).
I know it's a hassle, but I would check every road for its old number at [2] and for its present status at [3] (or simply using Russian Google). The latter website also has a decent list of relevant roads for each region. Comparing this list to the map, you can understand which roads should be shown. That's my way of doing it for Vladimir Oblast and Tula Oblast (and, of course, a lot of personal driving experience). (WT-en) Atsirlin 12:52, 13 July 2011 (EDT)
Oh boy, that is a muddle! The mccme.ru site is really great, though. When you say the M/A/P classification is obsolete, do you mean that we should no longer use those designations here? Or are they keeping the numbers for the roads that already have them? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:40, 13 July 2011 (EDT)
No, I would use the numbers as the only meaningful (albeit incomplete) classification. Most numbered roads still have this indication on the road signs. Therefore, it's helpful to show the numbers on the map. (WT-en) Atsirlin 04:16, 14 July 2011 (EDT)
(Oh and by the way, I'd disagree with your comment that it's usually the case that the English versions of Russian articles are more complete than the Russian ones. It seems to me that this may be true for the best English language versions, but there are loads of articles now that only exist in Russian. And in the case of Staraya Russa example, that article wouldn't have even been possible if I hadn't translated half of it from the Russian version!) --(WT-en) Peter Talk 11:04, 13 July 2011 (EDT)
That's true. The problem is that the number of complete (guide status) articles is roughly the same for both language versions, despite the Russian one has a lot more outlines with bare listings and scarce descriptions. (WT-en) Atsirlin 12:52, 13 July 2011 (EDT)
One thing that interests me is that, on the Russian version, there are very few listing descriptions—on the English version, that's usually the first thing people like to write about! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 19:28, 15 July 2011 (EDT)

Netherlands map[edit]

You have updated the Netherlands map [4]. I am wondering why you have changed it? Did you find the current map too cluttered? --Globe-trotter (talk) 17:54, 10 September 2012 (CEST)

Sorry, I simply modified and uploaded too many files in a row (typically, en + ru + svg) and got lost between different versions. Additionally, I introduced Russian annotations into svg and, therefore, opened/closed different layers. You are right, the en map does not require any update. Please, feel free to remove my upload and use the earlier version. Atsirlin (talk) 18:03, 10 September 2012 (CEST)
No problem :-) --Globe-trotter (talk) 18:35, 10 September 2012 (CEST)

SVGZ maps[edit]

I noticed you cleared a lot of map pngs & svgs from the WT logo. There are still a couple of SVGZ images containing the logo, which can probably be removed just as easy. E.g.

map of Asilah city center

—The preceding comment was added by Rumpeltux (talkcontribs)

I have cleaned that file. Please list all maps that still have a logo in them. --Globe-trotter (talk) 16:26, 28 September 2012 (CEST)
Terrific! These should also be affected: Berlin Mitte map with listings.svg, Chefchaouen map with listings.svg, Fez overview map with listings.svg, Ifrane map with listings.svg, Larache map with listings.svg Rumpeltux (talk) 14:41, 29 September 2012 (CEST)

Admin[edit]

Hi Alexander, your nomination to admin was successful and you are now offically promoted in the admin club;-) Jc8136 (talk) 15:04, 5 October 2012 (CEST)

Mass reverts[edit]

Hi Alexander, only admin can do mass reverts easily. Go to the user contribution page (e.g. Special:Contributions/Jjtk). Their you see the last edits. Behind every edit in brackets is written [rollback] in blue. You only need to link fast one after another before the page starts to revert. Then all clicked edits will be reverted. Only edits, which other users (not the same account) already changed can't be easily reverted. For these edits you need to undo manually as all users are able. That is very handy when you do spam/seo reverts. I hope that clarifies it. Jc8136 (talk) 16:48, 18 October 2012 (CEST)

Thanks! Now I know how it works. Atsirlin (talk) 17:12, 18 October 2012 (CEST)

Wikivoyage:Migration to Wikimedia[edit]

Hello,

Rather than reverting me, why don't you answer? Yann (talk) 19:52, 18 October 2012 (CEST)

Sorry, I reverted your post because Wikivoyage:Migration to Wikimedia is not a talk page. I replied to your post in the Pub. Please, take a look there. Atsirlin (talk) 19:56, 18 October 2012 (CEST)

Vladimir map[edit]

I have a Vladimir map nearly ready for listings icons, but I want your opinion on alphabetizing. It's very difficult to keep icons in alphabetical & numeric order even just for one language, but having a set of icons for each language version becomes extremely difficult to update. Which language version should get priority in alphabetizing? To illustrate, look at File:National Mall map.png and File:National Mall map (ru).png. I alphabetized the listings according to the English version, since I figured it will get more use, but perhaps the Vladimir map should follow a Russian alphabetical scheme, since it's in Russia? --Peter Talk 21:01, 29 October 2012 (CET)

Great! I did not know that you were still working on this one! Yes, I also prefer the Russian alphabetical scheme because we are likely to have more Russian-speaking readers of the Vladimir article. Regarding English speakers, we could make their life easier by introducing numbers into the listings (as in this article). Would you agree to try this? --Atsirlin (talk) 21:33, 29 October 2012 (CET)
I like that idea. I'll keep working! --Peter Talk 22:15, 29 October 2012 (CET)

Could you put all listings that should go on the map into simple text for me (in Cyrillic and in alphabetical order)? Something like this:

See & Do

1. Дворянское собрание
2. Дмитриевский собор
3. Золотые ворота
4. Картинная галерея
5. Театр "Вечерний"
6. Успенский собор

Buy

1. Крейсер
2. ЦУМ Валентина

And so on for Eat, Drink, Sleep, and Contact. That would really help speed things up. --Peter Talk 02:49, 2 November 2012 (CET)

Yes, but I have to know the scope of your map. Vladimir has a lot of distant or out-of-city hotels that won't fit into the map. Could you just send me the draft?
Another thing is that the article has not been carefully updated since 2009, so I should make some cleanup before preparing the list. I will try to do it over the weekend. --Atsirlin (talk) 08:01, 2 November 2012 (CET)
I've sent you the file in an email. --Peter Talk 18:05, 2 November 2012 (CET)

spambots[edit]

Hi Alexander, i saw that you blocked Spambots just for three months. Ryan reminded me a while ago that user accounts which are directed by spambots are to be block infinitely. Only anon IPs are blocked for three months. Cheers, Jc8136 (talk) 13:46, 30 October 2012 (CET)

Fine! I was a bit hesitant because we block both user account and its last IP address, which may affect other users. But I will certainly follow the policy. --Atsirlin (talk) 13:51, 30 October 2012 (CET)
Most user are able to create a new IP if they can't edit... In general this effects indian and other SEA IPs. I remember that i blocked about fourteen times an indian IP before we went for an infinite block. Jc8136 (talk) 15:00, 30 October 2012 (CET)
As it was explained to me, even when the user account is blocked indefinitely, the last-used IP address is only blocked temporarily. -- D. Guillaume (talk) 00:52, 31 October 2012 (CET)

Spam IP's[edit]

Hi! I noticed you blocked a swedish IP earlier today, for adding spam copied from Wikipedia. The same guy (217.209.82.165) uses IP 213.67.141.73 as you can see here. On sv: I have blocked this crosswiki vandal for six months at a time, but he will keep coming back. You might want to extend the current block on 217.209.82.165 as well. Riggwelter (talk) 22:52, 30 October 2012 (CET)

Thanks, I have changed the block setting. These Swedish IP's were also big troublemakers on WT. --Atsirlin (talk) 23:01, 30 October 2012 (CET)

Tagging with NowCommons[edit]

Hi. I help wts move files to Commons so I also thought helping out here would be a good idea. But I'm not sure if it is needed here. Will it help you if I tag the files and put them i Category:Files on Wikimedia Commons? --MGA73bot (talk) 14:01, 3 November 2012 (CET)

Yes, sure. The local files are not urgent, but your tags will help to sort them in the future. --Atsirlin (talk) 14:02, 3 November 2012 (CET)
Okay I'll start the bot again :-) --MGA73bot (talk) 14:04, 3 November 2012 (CET)
All should be tagged now :-) Almost 500 files. --MGA73bot (talk) 18:14, 3 November 2012 (CET)
Thanks! I hope we will make use of these tags later. --Atsirlin (talk) 18:16, 3 November 2012 (CET)

Categories[edit]

I was struggling to find, for example, all cities in Brazil that have articles here, to create the missing ones. The categories optimize the search engine, and the use of MediaWiki. I'm not Wikipedia volunteer, this is not the point, and of course I'm respecting the community, but I think in this case, it would be interesting to review, because our search engine is not that good... Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton (talk)

You should feel free to discuss this issue in the Pub. But I, personally, don't think that the categories are necessary. Once you get used to the geographical layout, things become simple. --Atsirlin (talk) 06:42, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Messages[edit]

Hi Atsirlin - You have new messages at User_talk:BarkingFish. 13:23, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

File:Lombok_Regions_map.png[edit]

Hi Atsirlin, you seem to know a thing or two about the maps situation here so I though I should seek your guidance File:Lombok_Regions_map.png is used in Central Lombok, East Lombok Lombok, North Lombok, South Lombok, West Lombok, (WT-en) Burmesedays/maps. You can see the original versions over here http://wikitravel.org/en/File:Lombok_Regions_map.png
I understand that the normal way of going about this would be to seek the file at wts, then upload to Wikimedia Commons, change the file link and all would be well. However I cannot find it at http://wikivoyage-old.org/shared/Wikivoyage. So I have gone to WT and downloaded http://wikitravel.org/en/File:Lombok_Regions_map.png. The file image needs updating as the airport has moved, so I have done that. I assume this should now be uploaded to Commons http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:UploadWizard

I am going to use the name "Lombok_Regions_map with LOP.png" (the LOP being the new airport IATA code), as it has been suitably modified to indicate the changed airport location. I hope that will prevent any confusions if someone inadvertently brings in the obsolete file during migration clean-up.
Should I just give it the same Image attribution details as the WT file? ie...
== Summary == {{Imagecredit|credit=[[User:(WT) Burmesedays]],[http://openstreetmap.org OpenStreetMap]|captureDate=29 March 2010|location=Lombok|source=[[WT):Image:Lombok_Regions_map.svg]]|caption=Map of Lombok|description=Map of Lombok with regions colour coded; English version}}{{Map|Lombok}}
== Licensing == {{cc-by-sa-3.0}}
I would put on an append; "Updated by User:Felix505 on 16 November 2012 to provide new airport (LOP) details".
If there is some other way you think this should be done then please let me know, I am unsure concerning the WT attribution requirement. Also sould I use this {{Original upload log}}
Please also look at this edit I just made and let me know if this is OK to do here on WV http://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Lombok&diff=2008963&oldid=2008877

Sorry to burden you with this. -- Felix (talk) 14:47, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi Felix! Our old Wikitravel Shared is at wts.wikivoyage-old.org. wikivoyage-old.org/shared is the old file repository of German Wikivoyage. Anyway, I would kindly ask you to keep the new map and postpone its upload until older versions are moved to Commons as part of our general image transfer procedure. The reason is that Stefan2 and other Commons people want to have correct attributions and the original upload log. It is better if they do it themselves and make sure that everything is correct. Then you simply upload the new version instead of the existing file. I hope that the maps will be transferred over the weekend, or even tonight, so you won't have to wait long. --Be bold situation here (talk) 14:53, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
Hi Atsirlin, I am glad I asked, and it was most kind of you to get back to me so promptly. I will of course do as you suggest above. I feel a bit guilty not helping out with the image transfers but is scares me a bit. If you have a moment you might like to pass comment on an edit I just did to the Lombok articles Get in section. If you have a moment then have a look at here at Travellers' pub. My comments there concern the appropriateness of using a link to WV's Special:MapSources in an article. Maybe you have a comment to make on that as you are a person with 'maps' interests. Thanks for your kind assistance with the query above. -- Felix (talk) 15:52, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Wikivoyage:Travellers'_pub#Image_transfer:_new_stage[edit]

Hi Atsirlin, regarding these intructions at Wikivoyage:Travellers'_pub#Image_transfer:_new_stage:

*Check that the files on WTS and Commons are same images
*Check that the Commons image has been reviewed and categorized
*Check that older versions of the file have been transferred
*Delete!

If you could clarify a little, more people might be able to help out. The first check seems clear enough. However, check 2 and 3 may need clarifying. What indicates if a image is reviewed or not? What to do if it is not? What categories might one helpfully apply to an image if it is not categorized? Why might we want older versions of an image? What to do if an older version that meets a want criteria has not been transferred? An ordinary user cannot delete an image, right? What helpful action can an ordinary user do? If you include answers to these questions in your instructions, more people may be able to help. On the other hand, if only admin can do what needs doing, perhaps say that, too. I am a normal user who would help if I know how. Best regards, --Rogerhc (talk) 00:29, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

I have replied in the Pub. --Alexander (talk) 08:33, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Image Migration[edit]

Thanks for the information on the Image tagging and migration. I will review your links and get started and if I have any questions I will check with you or one of the others active on the image work. When I was an Admin on WT I really didn't get involved much with images so this is a bit new for me, but I am ready and willing to learn. Again thanks and I will focus on helping with the Images. - Tom Holland (Xltel) (talk) 00:04, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

http://wts.wikivoyage-old.org/wiki/File:Botha2.jpg[edit]

Hi, I tagged this file, http://wts.wikivoyage-old.org/wiki/File:Botha2.jpg, as {{ignore|no source given}} because no source is indicated. Please look at the file, consider who the uploader is, how this photo may be important or not important, that he claims it is out of copyright, and change the ignore tag if I have made a mistake. Thanks, --Rogerhc (talk) 00:23, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

I left a note there. The photo is apparently quite old, so it can be accepted by Commons. --Alexander (talk) 07:16, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

map?[edit]

You say you like doing maps. Could you add one here: On the trail of Marco Polo? This is definitely not urgent. Pashley (talk) 16:47, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Or Silk Road or combine them? Pashley (talk) 16:49, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
Also, can you answer these questions? Talk:Teaching_English#Russian.3F Talk:Silk_Road#Russia.3F Pashley (talk) 17:25, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I can help with the maps, but definitely not before January. Right now we have lots of work on the image transfer and re-arrangement of existing maps. I also have to do some map drawing for Russian Wikivoyage first.
Same applies to your questions. As a native Russian speaker I have no idea on where and how Russian is taught. I am not sure which language is best for the internet search on this topic, but I can look it up at some point. The Silk Road question should be easier, so I will try to answer it now. --Alexander (talk) 18:33, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Regarding your edit here[edit]

Checkuser evidence conclusively demonstrates that IBdick is not IBobi. Philippe Beaudette, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 22:49, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, Philippe. I have seen you post there, and I certainly appreciate this information. However, I frequently use proxies, and I don't see why other people can't do the same to hide their identity. The similarity in the writing style is too obvious. Honestly, I don't know whether this user is IBobi himself, or someone who pretends to be IBobi. But I am pretty sure that this person has no intention of contributing to the travel guide, and if he/she does, the choice of a different user name should be no problem. --Alexander (talk) 23:06, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

KeepLocal images on RU[edit]

Hello again. I am wanting to upload about 25 keepLocal tagged images from WTS onto RU. Are there Russian equivalents of the following templates: Template:Information, Template:KeepLocal, and the basic license templates? If not, could you possibly create them? Additionally, could you inform me of any relevant policies? (It will be up to the project to add proper fair-use rationales to make the images comply with EDP, where that is relevant. Most of the images are no-FOP-in-XYZ cases, though, which aren't fair-use and don't need a rationale.) Thanks. This, that and the other (talk) 03:32, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Hi! Thank you for your work. I will create the templates as soon as I have a more stable Internet connection (hopefully, tonight), and let you know then. --Alexander (talk) 06:08, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
Now I have created the following templates: Template:PD, Template:cc-by-sa, Template:Information, and Template:Non-free content. Their design and content are pretty simple because Digr endeavors to develop a common style for all infoboxes used in Russian Wikivoyage. So I leave style issues to him. Note also that I used the name "Non-free content" to distinguish FoP-related images from personal photos and the like.
One more comment. As far as I know, Russia is going to introduce FoP for buildings (but neither sculptures nor paintings) starting from January 2013. If you have pictures of Russian buildings on your list, they can simply wait for another week and go to Commons then.
Thank you! --Alexander (talk) 20:58, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
That's great news (re: FOP)! --Peter Talk 21:25, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
Checked this information once again. Unfortunately, the amendments are still sitting in the parliament (since nearly one year!) Our stupid parliament has other priorities... you probably heard the news-(( --Alexander (talk) 22:04, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
See ru:Служебная:Список файлов/This, that and the other. I haven't added non-free content tags to them yet (I think they are mainly photos of buildings in non-FOP countries, which are usually accepted as free content on local wikis, but some are sculptures which we have to be more careful about). In fact, I have left them all in a bit of a mess. I'm hoping you will be able to clean up after me! Sorry to leave you with that sort of work. This, that and the other (talk) 05:31, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
Thanks! --Alexander (talk) 06:19, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Destroyed cultural monuments[edit]

Hey, I wondered why you changed "And that's after Stalin and the Nazis destroyed half the cultural monuments!" to "And that's after all dramatic events of the 20th century that took place here!" The latter seems too euphemistic to me—I think most readers won't know what those dramatic events were. Few Americans, at least, have any appreciation for what happened during the blockade, and have little appreciation for how many churches and cathedrals were demolished under Stalin. When I lived there, a friend was showing me a book of утраченных cultural monuments, and I—not knowing the word утраченный—told her that I'd love to go see more of these beautiful buildings in person. Chills went down my spine when her face darkened as she explained that they had all been torn down. Anyway, knowing what your objection was to the original wording should help us come up with something better. --Peter Talk 01:04, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Peter, I think that you are not fully aware of the losses in other cities, such as Kiev and Novgorod, not to mention Minsk, Stalingrad, and Rzhev that were literally razed down during WWII. On the Russian scale, St. Petersburg is one of the best preserved cities, because it was not occupied by Germans, while the Soviet government always preserved it as the "cradle of Russian revolution". This saved the city from ambitious projects like Stalin's Seven Sisters, Tverskaya, or Noviy Arbat in Moscow. The suburbs were in sorrow state after the war, but places like Peterhof and Tsarskoe Selo are now completely rebuilt/restored so that you can't see any damage. I am mostly objecting to your phrase "half of the monuments were destroyed". This is by far exaggerated. Any lower "number" will be OK. --Alexander (talk) 08:24, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

XML-to-template conversion[edit]

Hi Alexander - can you have a look at ru:Служебная:Вклад/Wrh2Bot and let me know if you have any concerns? Also, can you let me know what an appropriate edit summary would be for Russian Wikivoyage? Currently the bot is using the same edit summary that was used for the English conversion, so I would like to change that to something appropriate for Russian. -- Ryan • (talk) • 05:59, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, Ryan! The edits look fine. You can omit the "tollfree" field, though. We never use it. You can keep the existing edit summary (we all understand English), just modify the last part. The discussion is at "...per Template_talk:Listing#Шаблон listing и его производные" --Alexander (talk) 06:25, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
See also the feedback at the bot's talk page. --Alexander (talk) 11:58, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
The bot should now always be including "alt" and always be excluding "tollfree". I ran it against 10 articles (ru:Служебная:Вклад/Wrh2Bot) - if those are OK let me know and I'll run it against all remaining articles over the weekend. If you have any concerns please also let me know and I'll do my best to address them. -- Ryan • (talk) • 03:37, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
Looks good! Please, go ahead! --Alexander (talk) 06:14, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
The bot is done converting XML listings. I'll look into the external link cleanup next, but I'm out of town next week with potentially questionable internet connectivity, so that may take a little while longer. -- Ryan • (talk) • 06:55, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
What should the edit summary text be when the bot does the external link conversion that you asked for? ('''Bold text''' [http://example.com]'''[http://example.com Bold text]''') -- Ryan • (talk) • 22:00, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
Thank you again, Ryan! Regarding the link conversion, the edit summary could look like that: "external link conversion per ru:Обсуждение_Wikivoyage:Внешние_ссылки#Формат внешних ссылок". Of course, it is not urgent. Have a nice trip! --Alexander (talk) 06:24, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
Sorry for the long delay - I've run the bot against a handful of external links - see ru:Служебная:Вклад/Wrh2Bot. Please let me know if you have any concerns or need any changes, otherwise I'll run it against the full site in the coming days. -- Ryan • (talk) • 04:43, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
It looks perfect. You can proceed with the replacement. Thank you! --Alexander (talk) 06:01, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
The bot completed after updating 402 articles. -- Ryan • (talk) • 16:28, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
Great! --Alexander (talk) 17:11, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

An award for you![edit]

Barncompass.png The Wikivoyage Barncompass
Alexander, I would like to say thanks to you for defending me on my talk page. As my English is not that good, so I was very much hesitate to join the discussion but since, I admit mistake was on my part so I think I had nothing to say either in my defence. Anyway, thanks! Saqib (talk) 02:06, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
Please, don't post it here. I hate barncompasses, and in this situation they are clearly not appropriate.
I still think it was a kind of a street fight, where many strong guys choose to punch one who is weaker just because he is weak and behaves differently. A very good indication that this community has a lot of respect to obvious trolls and zero respect to regular contributors who choose to share their travel knowledge here. If I were you, I would not continue editing after this incident, because next time you violate some non-written policy, you will be treated in exactly the same way without even thinking about good faith, cultural differences, and many other things that are vital for a collaborative international community. --Alexander (talk) 07:28, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
If you really believe this is the case, you are welcome to start a nomination to request my desysop, and see what the community thinks. --Rschen7754 11:08, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
I am not playing these games, Rschen. I am mostly working on travel content and planning my next travels. The rest is very boring, but I had two reasons to join this particular conversation. First, I see that a good editor is nearly thrown out of the project for a minor mistake that is basically irrelevant to the project itself. Second, I want to make sure that similar things will not happen on other wikis, where people are more open and don't mind calling each other by real names, even if these names have not been officially disclosed on-wiki. Apparently, we have to make some clarifications regarding this sensitive topic, and I urge you to do the same here if you feel so strongly about the privacy issue. --Alexander (talk) 12:14, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
Perhaps then, you should assume good faith, and assume that "we" (considering the many times I've disagreed with some of the people supporting my position... anyway) are doing what we believe is best for this site, and to protect those who edit it, rather than all the bad-faith nonsense above.
This "interpretation" of harassment is certainly global; one should expect to get blocked on any Wikimedia site, and have the posts suppressed by stewards or local oversighters, if they did what happened here. I don't think you realize the number of cross-wiki suppressions I've had to request (and that were granted) because of nasty stuff like this, even in language that I don't even speak, including Russian. While Tony1's name is public on Wikimedia, what was posted about him was not, and he felt harassed by the material that was posted. However, very few people are pushing for a siteban for Saqib, because he did not realize the seriousness of the issue (though he really should have, as a matter of good judgment). And I think that's rightfully so. --Rschen7754 12:23, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
I have no problem with the suppressions, but I have a problem with the events that followed. And I do think that Saqib was harassed, which made him feel frightened and eventually stimulated him to ask for resignation in a situation that did not require it (according to all existing policies). This is my personal opinion about the current situation. I believe everyone acted in good faith, but this does not make the whole thing any better.
By the way, can you provide any evidence that Tony1 was harassed by Saqib's posting? Not an a posteriori evidence that we all see in the Pub, but something that appeared before your suppression request. I am not trying to accuse you in wrong actions, I simply try to understand how it works and how to avoid such things in the future. --Alexander (talk) 12:42, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
The point of suppression is to remove the information quickly - better safe than sorry. I did provide Tony1 with more information about what was said over email, and he did not approve, and started the posting on the travellers' pub. --Rschen7754 19:07, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks![edit]

I just want to say thank you for helping out with the Trans-Siberian Railway! The stuff I translated from German obviously contained more misinformation than I thought... :P ϒpsilon (talk) 22:11, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

You are welcome! I am always eager to share my knowledge of Russia and ex-USSR countries. --Alexander (talk) 22:14, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
By the way, you can consider creating the Cope section, where one would describe toilets, power sockets, shower, and similar stuff. --Alexander (talk) 22:17, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
Now I've created Cope and moved a few things there from other sections, I'm a bit suspicious about the "Asian style hot shower", though (that one was in the English version from the beginning).
I was thinking about translating some South American and Middle Eastern articles that are Star articles on de but after this I'm not sure about it, who knows what kind of nonsense they might contain. ϒpsilon (talk) 10:29, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
Yes, Asian-style shower is not very clear. In a standard toilet, you will find yourself standing in a puddle, because there is no drainage to remove water from the floor. Fortunately, there are normal showers on major long-distance trains.
I think any star-quality article is worth translating. This is the whole point of having Wikivoyage in different languages. When you make a translation, you may do some research yourself, or at least you draw other people to the topic. Although I can barely read German, I never tried to read German article about Trans-Siberian, because I thought all German articles about Russia are stubs. Perhaps you could contact German colleagues and see whether they want to make some changes to their article? (unfortunately, I can't make any meaningful writing in German, only correct the numbers and such...) --Alexander (talk) 10:43, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

By the way how can you prove that you are the administrator of Wikivoyage?[edit]

Hello Alexander. First of all we would like to point out that it is very hard to understand the mechanism of communication with the administration. Secondly, answering your complaints of copyright violations, we have to say that the information placed by us on Wikivoyage was taken from our official site with the aim of spreading the information to a wider public, since Wikivoyage is much more popular. Concerning the matter of rewriting, we should say that if you think it is necessary then go for it, because quite frankly we are not paid to do this kind of work. We are pretty sure you won't be getting any formal complaints about plagiarism on the account of this particular information. Our aim is to give useful information about Lutsk seeing as the name of our organisation if The Center for Tourist Information and Services. It is by all means your right to delete the information and waste a hard days work, but you also haven't mentioned the means by which we can prove that we have the right to publish this particular information. Please send us a reply and maybe a manual on how to use this awkward system of correspondence. Best regards, The Center for Tourist Information and Services

Replay to: It is also important that our Ukranian colleagues have found multiple copyright violations by this user. --Alexander (talk) 09:39, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

Attribution conflict[edit]

Hello Alexandre,

Regarding this attribution problem

https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Creditssource-credits#Was_anyone_aware_of_this.2C_because_I_sure_wasn.27t.

I agree with you that it is not fair to the authors of the content that this link was removed. It is against the best practices of Wikipedia, Creative Commons, and even our own rules published here.

I ask you humbly for your help to raise this issue with the community and reverse the attribution change.

https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:Travellers%27_pub#Are_we_breaking_our_own_rules_of_attributing

Thankyou Alexandre, Travel doc96 (talk) 23:19, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Milan: Interlingual pub[edit]

Hi Alexander, hope you are fine and your next holidays are planned. I try to organise an interlingual Dotm for as many language versions of WV as possible. I left a message in the russian pub but so far nobody replied. Would the russian WV be interested in participating? French, Italian, German and English WV have signalled interest. Would be great to have you onboard. Best regards, jan (talk) 13:21, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Hello Jan! I have seen your announcement and I am aware of your project. The reason I am silent is that I don't see how we could contribute. Russian WV has neither the DoTM feature nor people who would be terribly interested in writing about Milan. So the best thing we can do is the translation of the English/German/Franch/Italian articles once they are ready. You can consider us part of the project, but we can't contribute actively. --Alexander (talk) 14:21, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
Hi Alexander, thank you for the honest response. I will keep you updated and translation is appreciated. Regards, jan (talk) 15:12, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Upload files, Upload Wizard?[edit]

Wikimedia Commons logo

Hello! Sorry for writing in English. As you're an administrator here, please check the message I left on MediaWiki talk:Licenses and the village pump. Thanks, Nemo 19:22, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

commons:Category:Protected areas of Republic of Karelia[edit]

Can you fix the template for subcategories in this category, please? The redirected categories should be empty. I can't make it by myself -- it depends on templates...
Have a nice day :-) Wieralee (talk) 09:06, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

wikivoyage maps, and the future OSM maps[edit]

Hi, thanks for your responses at the Traveler's pub. Are you the one who created that widget, or who is the main maintainer? Legal has contacted us and said that we should also have a user warning in the layer's selection menu (something like "clicking ... may expose your browsing to the 3rd party", or something similar - they are still working on the text). Whom should I bug about it? On a different note, feel free to browse our notes in progress page on the state of the maps, and what we plan to do with it. Would you be interested in working on it with us? Thanks!!! --Yurik (talk) 23:43, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

@Yurik: No, dynamic maps have been created by Mey2008, and he is the only person changing the scripts (several of us have access to the scripts, though). I will let him know about your request. On the other hand, I find it strange that Legal is asking you instead of ever talking to us on this matter.
Thanks for the invitation to work on the maps, but I am not a programmer kind of person. I am mostly interested in the content, such as writing travel guides. I do maintenance work too because someone has to do it here. However, it is not my cup of tea. --Alexander (talk) 06:39, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the info! Legal is asking me because I was the one who started the whole mess - I noticed that the maps were served from non-WMF cluster, and raised the alarm. And it is always the case, the one who spots the problem has to be in charge of solving it :((( In any case, thanks, and I hope we can switch to something like this (work in progress!) very soon :) --Yurik (talk) 22:44, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

Maps on mobile[edit]

Hi User:Atsirlin! I'm keen to understand what's powering your maps solution and check how mobile friendly it is. At the very minimum I think the width needs a tweak in MediaWiki:Mobile.css - currently it seems to force the width of any page to be greater than is available to the browser. Jdlrobson (talk) 21:07, 2 September 2015 (UTC) Jdlrobson (talk) 21:07, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Are you familiar with the embedded maps here on English Wikivoyage? We are using the same solution called MediaWiki:Gadget-MapFrame.js, although we don't place it as gadget. Another difference is that here on the English site embedded maps have smaller rectangular shape and are placed in the middle of the article along with figures, while in Russian Wikivoyage we place the map in the very beginning of the article inside a collapsible element.
From the technical point of view, embedded maps are called by ru:Template:Geo (it contains two calls to the map, one for city articles, and one for regional articles). The problem you mentioned is bothering us since the very beginning. We have to specify the map size explicitly (1000x400 at the moment), and I don't know how to make it screen-dependent. This is also a problem for desktops, where, ideally, we would like to have maps that scale according to the screen width.
Concerning the mobile version, the map size is, of course, a very big issue. It would be great if you could help us with solving it. --Alexander (talk) 21:50, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Maps and other things[edit]

Hi Alexander. Besides a whole bunch of real-life stuff, I was feeling like a very unpaid and overworked technical advisor between the listing editor and maps; the discussions become a huge time sink after all. Add some serious misgivings about Wikipedia sticklers and the bad atmosphere they create, even after ignoring and not engaging with them, and sometimes I wonder how the site even functions. I saw that you were having the same frustrations, but thank you very much for stepping in regardless. I am enjoying writing about places I enjoyed visiting, and I hope you are too. -- torty3 (talk) 04:12, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi Torty3! Thanks for your message! Your contributions are central to the development of this site. Even if they are not properly appreciated here, other language versions can make good use of them. Therefore, please continue as far as you can. I do agree with your last statement, I also enjoy writing about places that I visited, but, luckily, I can do it in a different language and in a smaller but healthier community. As for English Wikivoyage, I try to adopt a neutral attitude and simply ignore those things that go wrong here. --Alexander (talk) 08:51, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
By the way, may I use this opportunity to ask for your help or advice? In Russian Wikivoyage, we implemented embedded maps that can be folded or unfolded by user. However, we were not able to adjust the map size to the screen width. Do you know how to fix this? Example here, click on "Открыть карту" to display the map. --Alexander (talk) 09:13, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
Hi, ah see what happens :) Took a while and after a bit of silliness I added a CSS fix here. No Javascript required, should work exactly as you want it to? -- torty3 (talk) 08:53, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
Wow, so simple! Thank you! --Alexander (talk) 17:45, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
I checked it again though, and there's a small thing I missed causing the map layer button to not show. Replace a line in ru:Mediawiki:MapFrame.js from
var ifstr = '<iframe src="'+exsrc+'" width="'+map.data("width")+'" height="'+map.data("height") +'" style="border:0"></iframe>';
to
var ifstr = '<iframe src="'+exsrc+'" width="'+map.data("width") +'" style="border:0; width:100%"></iframe>';
and that should fix that problem. -- torty3 (talk) 10:06, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
Thank you! I have made this change. --Alexander (talk) 16:22, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
User:Torty3, I re-stored the height= part of the code because the height of the map window became too small when this line was removed. I am not sure what you meant by the map layer button not showing (I could see the button at any time), so please check again if everything works as it should. Thank you! --Alexander (talk) 16:58, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, the strangest thing but it's alright again. It looked the same as covering up half the map (screen) with paper. Might just have been a temporary clash with whatever Javascript test code I was using. There was also a mistype with the code, I meant to replace the width parameter, not the height. Sorry about that, had that little bit of time before Christmas. Happy New Year though! -- torty3 (talk) 16:30, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
Happy New Year too! --Alexander (talk) 19:46, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Strategy[edit]

I sent a link to the Russian Wikivoyage page to a couple of people on the strategy team, and they're both dealing with the unfortunate situation  :-/ and happy with the proposals. This seems to be "cycle 1" of strategy discussions, and I understand that some of this might fit better in "cycle 2", but my advice is to copy the entire thing over to the current strategy page, and let them sort it out on Meta. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 16:48, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Whatamidoing (WMF), we are planning to complete the translation (ourselves) until April 15 and post the English version on Meta. --Alexander (talk) 16:54, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
Thanks. I hope that your proposal is well-received. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 16:23, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Maps and Wikivoyage support[edit]

Hey Alexander,

Maggie pinged me on Meta about your concerns with interactive maps and Wikivoyage. As you know, the team has put work on hold while we figure out resourcing. Part of that work is to understand the impact the work has on communities and the movement, the costs to support it property, and how we do all of that within the constraints of reality. :) I think we agree that supporting non-Wikipedia projects is important. Please help me be aware of the needs for the communities you are part of!

The Maps team has tried to support Wikivoyage throughout and continues to work with the communities on issues and requests as they are brought up. I try to represent the community needs in discussions around product decisions. If there are unaddressed issues or needs you think need WMF product team involvement, please ping me on-wiki, phabricator, email - whatever works for you. I'll do my best to get you in touch with someone, file a phabricator task, and/or generally make noise where appropriate. :)

First step: I'm going to share this post with the current product manager of Maps (Deb) and the folks in product leadership deliberating on how to move forwards in support of maps. Happy to hear your thoughts and thank you for your time.

Yours, CKoerner (WMF) (talk) 16:51, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Thank you, CKoerner (WMF). With Yurik we discussed several issues, but this stopped after he quit, and the message on the Kartographer page does not sound like anyone plans doing further development. As far as I can recall, we discussed the following:
  • Customization of the map layer is highly desirable. The current Wikimedia layer displays some basic stuff, but we had long discussions on what should be added and what should be removed. Eventually, one map layer does not fit all Wikimedia projects, and travel guides have a rather special approach to maps. To be as good as printed travel guides, we need our own map layer, or some way of interacting with OSM and calling different elements directly from there
  • Map markers need further development. We had trouble to use arbitrary images as map markers, an obstacle that, for example, prevents Russian Wikivoyage from switching to the Kartographer maps completely. Readability of the maps in black and white is another issue, as well as the problem of color recognition in general.
  • Maps should display POIs from multiple articles (this is needed in the context of city articles and also for creating maps of all POIs in a given country).
  • Advanced map editor will be an advantage. Some basic features are currently integrated into the visual editor, and they are good for creating quick maps, but these maps hardly look professional. We really struggle with things like accurate stitching of different lines and boundaries. Very few users can do this.
--Alexander (talk) 18:01, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
Hi Alexander, as the Product Manager for Maps, I'm happy to chat with you on the concerns that you have expressed here. All of the issues that you bring up have tickets in Phabricator, but since some of them are old, they might eventually need updating:
  • Customization of the map layer -- T146343 this would be very cool to be able to display a different map style and/or map data per wiki project but it would be a pretty huge undertaking. It would entail gathering per wiki requirements and desires for the type of data needed, which map features to highlight or to downplay and then the actual building of the map style files as well as creating the ability to use different map styles per project. In order to make the map rendering quick, we'd probably need to build a large amount of map tiles, in that specific style, and then keep it cached for fast page rendering. It's a tremendous amount of work and server cycles to do this effectively and I'm not sure that it is something that we can do. It's a great idea, but very difficult in practice.
  • Map markers need further development -- T136455 this ticket might have been what you're referring to, or in reality, any number of tickets that are in the backlog; such as these that you created: T131620 and T131618. I completely agree that the markers and how they are displayed on the map need design help and better frontend implementation.
  • Maps should display POIs from multiple articles -- I'm not sure which ticket refers to this concern, maybe T140092? Can you expand more on what you're referring to in this context? Wikivoyage currently has the ability for different POIs to have different links to articles (see this documentation and this map) - is there something more that is needed?
  • Advanced map editor -- Absolutely this is something we'd love to have in the future - a robust and easy to use map creator/editor that makes maps look great. :) Alternatively, there is a ticket that outlines some of the things we'd like to do to improve the VE experience T158013.
I'm not sure if you saw the (now closed) discussion on enwiki to turn on mapframe--it dealt with a lot of concerns about maps in general and concerns that are specific to enwiki. In that discussion, @Jkatz (WMF) states: "The Reading product team has been working to try to figure out how to support the existing maps implementation, and our initial analysis is that maps requires significantly more resources than were assigned to the project at inception. We are currently working on establishing if we can prioritize resources to get maps into a stable, healthy state and will update folks on a plan as soon as we have a draft for comment."
Please know that we do take these concerns about maps seriously, but we are still trying to figure out our next steps. Thanks, DTankersley (WMF) (talk) 22:52, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
Hello DTankersley (WMF)! Thank you for your response. This discussion comes back to where it started, WMF does not want to spend resources on Wikivoyage. I fully appreciate that multiple map tiles is a very big project beyond the scope of your team, but that's also a more general question of OSM integration as part of the same free-knowledge movement that WMF promotes. We tried to raise this question during the recent strategy discussion, but apparently we were not heard.
Anyway, I am fine to focus on smaller things for the time being. For map markers and the advanced map editor Phabricator tickets describe the current situation quite accurately. If you start working on them, please, let us know, so that we can provide you with up-to-date situation and understanding of how these features should work.
As for the POIs from multiple articles, the feature request currently missing from Phabricator, I think we had only informal conversations with Yurik. The idea is that, for example, the Prague article has several sub-articles (Prague/Old_Town_and_Josefov, Prague/Castle_and_Lesser_Town), and it's desirable to display all their POIs on a single map. If you like, I can open a Phabricator ticket for this. --Alexander (talk) 07:36, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
Hello again and thanks for your comments. If and when we get the chance to expand the functionality of maps, we'll be sure to reach out to the Wikivoyage community to get their feedback, concerns and desires for improvements. We definitely would want a consultation like that before making large changes (or enhancements) to the map service.
For the Prague article concern - are you wanting to take each of the POIs on the sub-articles maps and combine them into one major map? That would make the map possibly quite unusable because of the vast amounts of POIs on one map. Or, maybe I'm mis-understanding what is really desired here. Please open a phabricator ticket and if you can show samples, that'd be great. Thanks, DTankersley (WMF) (talk) 20:47, 6 October 2017 (UTC)