Wikivoyage:User rights nominations/Archives/2015

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

User:Ibaman has made a wide variety of valuable contributions throughout this site, including loads of janitorial work reverting edits in violation of Wikivoyage policies including vandalism, touting and external links and tour policy violations, showing that he understands the rules and guidelines on this site thoroughly; listification and other structural and stylistic improvement of existing articles; contributing new content; and participation on dotm and Talk page discussions. The contributions by User: 200.252.135.78 are also by him.

I think that particularly his already extensive and very effective janitorial work shows that Ibaman is trustworthy and would use the additional tools he'd get as an Admin judiciously and helpfully. He has indicated a willingness to acquire some more tools for patrolling.

To anticipate one possible demurral: Given the length of time Ibaman has participated on this site and the types of edits he's made, I don't think that the non-huge number so far is an important reason not to make his good job a little easier by making him an Admin. He's never shown the slightest indication of having any desire to injure the site, only to help it, and I can't see that changing. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:44, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Speaking for myself, I want to express my thanks for the nomination, and the support already manifested, it's an honor and I'll do my best for the benefit of our fellow travellers. My account is much younger than my activities. I've been around voy, at en: and pt: since day one, having gained editing experience when we were at the old site before IB took it over. Saqib has pointed out not seeing much of mine at policy discussions and actions other than janitorial daily mopping, which is true; most of the time, I tend to care less about arguing policy points than about complying and enforcing whatever consensus is reached about them. However I remember having said things that mattered on the discussion about military tourism, and would like to boast a little about some heavy bricklaying work done on the St. Petersburg districtification (IPs 186.222.188.112, 186.222.134.220, 186.222.191.163 and 189.123.17.109 were me as well), and also on the Brazil Expedition led by Texugo before last World Cup.
Almost every working day, I keep an open browser tab on our Recent Changes page, always watching and taking proactive actions whenever necessary. You can count on it. Ibaman (talk) 14:10, 26 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • PS - after a little chatting with Saqib, I think I must express in very clear terms that my chosen name comes from IBAMA, my workplace, the Brazilian environmental protection federal agency, and has nothing whatsoever to do with Internet Brands.

Result: Nomination successful. -- Ryan • (talk) • 16:17, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

User:Illinoisboy18 – I know what an administrator is supposed to do, and I have the confidence that an administrator should have. Illinoisboy18 (talk) 20:16, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No, does not meet any of the criteria listed above. This nomination is his only contribution so far. Pashley (talk) 20:34, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry; who? Can we speedily delete this thread, as this nomination is frivolous and no-one will vote for it except the boy himself and perhaps some random vandal? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:57, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I would not object. Pashley (talk) 20:58, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
No need to waste much time here... Danapit (talk) 21:02, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Result: Speedily archived as frivolous. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:04, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I have edited Wikivoyage 5,815 times and have contributed 119 pictures to Commons. I have 1,416 live edits on Wikipedia including 133 articles created. My knowledge of Wikivoyage policies is good. Kindly allow me to serve Wikivoyage more as an administrator. Prof. Manna (talk) 00:54, 18 December 2015 (UTC) My user ID is prof_tpms[reply]

Prof. Manna, as you know, I've followed your contributions closely and appreciate them. But before we pass judgment on whether you should also be an admin, I think you should answer the following questions: Have you engaged in any policy discussions? Have you done any janitorial jobs (reverting spam and touting)? If not, what else do you want to do as an admin that you don't already do? Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:59, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you Ikan Kekek (talk) for the quick response. Yes, I was active in janitorial work and many of my edits reverted spams and touting. In fact, I give great value for keeping Wikivoyage clean and useful. I have read the policies extensively and have involved in policy discussions quite frequently as you can see in my talk page. Regards, Prof. Manna (talk) 01:05, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
What your user talk page shows is that others have had discussions with you about the application of Wikivoyage policies to edits you've made. Can you give a listing or some examples of posts you've made on policy discussion pages? Also, give some examples of edits you've done to revert spam and touting. Users don't automatically get promoted (demoted?) to admin (janitor) based purely on number of edits. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:37, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Ikan, I quote the following paragaraphs from my talk page to show my activity in policy discussionsː Addresses and directions

Hi, Prof. I waited a little to bring up a new topic on your user talk page, because I don't want to deluge you with too much stuff to think about, but let's talk about addresses and directions now. An address in a Wikivoyage listing should be a street address. If that's not possible, Wikivoyage:Geocoding is best, all-round. P.O. Boxes are totally useless in finding a place and should not be given in lieu of street addresses, because the "address" tab is about finding the place, not snail-mailing someone there.

As for directions, x, y or z km does not constitute directions, because while it says how far someplace is (presumably from the town centre?), it says nothing about how to get there.

For a travel article to be usable, all the places that are listed need to be clearly reachable solely by consulting that article, not by attempting to find the crucial missing information somewhere else.

What's your sense of what makes a listing truly usable for someone reading who plans on visiting a given town?

All the best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:13, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Very useful advice. Kilometre information is given to help the traveler choose the nearest. Once the km is given it is easy to negotiate with an autorikshaw driver. I will also add 'near...' for confusing places. I give Street addressees, but in India street name is not useful for main streets because for kilometres on end the same street name is used. That is the logic of giving so much prominence to km information. regards, Prof tpms (talk) 04:27, 14 May 2015 (UTC) Kindly revert your revert of Feroke hotel listing because I have removed the name of a second hotel accidentally clubbed with another hotel. Prof tpms (talk) 04:28, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

   I don't know which revert you're referring to, but please go ahead and edit anything as appropriate. I get your point about the number of kilometres. The thing is, there are very long streets in many places, but are there no address numbers in towns in Malabar? I mean, here in Manhattan, you can find 1 Broadway and 3000 Broadway, and then Broadway continues into the Bronx and all the way north to Sleepy Hollow, but there's no mistaking the street addresses because of the numbers. If there really are no numbered addresses, the best solution, if possible, really is Wikivoyage:Geocoding. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:28, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Ikan Kekek Dear Ikan, The numbering system is followed in some Indian cities of big size. In other places, a landmark is used to locate the place. That is why I give so much importance to the km information in case of properties which are landmarks themselves. Regards, Prof tpms (talk) 08:39, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

   I understand. But let's keep in mind that not only an autorickshaw rider but a driver in their own or a hired car that they're driving should be able to find the locations in question; otherwise, the article isn't really usable. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:42, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Well, for an outside driver I may be required to say '2 km towards the so and so road'. I don't know whether people can follow leads like east and west. Prof tpms (talk) 09:08, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

   x-number of kilometres from the centre of town along Y Road is a helpful instruction. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:16, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Exactly. It is implied that the traveler stands in front of the railway station or the city centre which are usuallly the same in India. Prof tpms (talk) 09:17, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

   This kind of thing might be good to explain in India#Get around if it isn't already explained there (I'm not going to check right now). Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:33, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

I have checked that especially the paragraph about 'Addresses'. There also the same opinion is repeated. All Indian properties have door numbers but they are given in the order of registration and not location wise. So completely useless for searching purpose. Landmarks are useful provided they are updated every year because Indian businesses of larger size have the tendency to go bankrupt and close because of Soviet style taxation. Prof tpms (talk) 09:44, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

   I see. Tokyo has a similarly opaque address numbering system, based on how old each building on a given street is. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:07, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

My next objective is to create the district page for Kasaragod Prof tpms (talk) 14:13, 15 May 2015 (UTC) Prof. Manna (talk) 06:24, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'd recommend that you go by the name User:Prof tpms. I had no idea who Prof. Manna was, and therefore the application appeared to be from a new user. Andrewssi2 (talk) 06:37, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Prof, as I said, that constituted a discussion with you about the application of Wikivoyage policies to edits you've made. Policy discussions that admins or people applying to be admins are expected to engage in would apply to the entire site. An example off the top of my head would include the recent discussion on Wikivoyage talk:Region article template, starting at "Rethinking region articles - request for feedback". Do you have any edits in Wikivoyage space, as opposed to edits on destination articles, talk pages for them, user talk pages, your user page and the Pub?
I will say right now that I don't think anyone is too likely to second your nomination to be an admin, but I've tried to indicate to you why that is. Admins are not only expected to know and enforce policies but to engage in discussions about whether and how policies should change, and whether aspects of the site should be reorganized. You've done a lot of work on your region of India, but there are a lot of other corners of the site (and I don't mean geographic regions) that you haven't explored. Have you ever looked at dotm, to take one example? And do you read the Pub regularly or look often at Requests for comment? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:17, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ikan Kekek, It is the strong urge to get involved in policy matters that one wants to be an administrator. As about Janitor work, pages on India have a shortage of people to look after them and do the necessary cosmetic touches. I think I have a role. Regards, Prof. Manna (talk) 07:30, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I think that the most important thing you can do is continue your work creating and editing articles about Kerala and nearby places. But if you really want to become an admin, get more active in reverting spam and touting, and otherwise editing out touting as a regular user, and look at some of the other areas of the site to interest yourself in policy and organizational discussions. I should emphasize that admin is _not_ a more important role than content creator. It is the content creators who are of most basic worth to this site. Of course, the roles can overlap. But as I understand it (perhaps some other admins may disagree), the primary roles of admins are to enforce policies and help organize the site. It's no insult to you to say that you are most useful as a content creator, and that it would be best for you to do nothing that would stanch your productivity, regardless of its effect or lack of effect on an eventual promotion(?) to admin. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:37, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Ikan Kekek, I understand you perfectly well. Editors and contributors are in a more advantageous position to help Wikivoyage. I only felt that pages on India are not getting sufficient attention because of Wikivoyage having smaller number of Administrators taking time for this region. It need not be me, we just want more hands here. Regards, Prof. Manna (talk) 08:01, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I think the main problems with articles about India are not due to ongoing editing but the current state of the articles. I've been patrolling new edits to articles about India pretty carefully, and other admins and non-admin users have been helping too, including User:Saqib. I and some collaborators have detailed a lot of the issues in Wikivoyage:India Expedition and its sub-pages, though I haven't kept up with your edits of articles about Kerala, and I'm less than halfway through updating the sub-pages that haven't been updated since last December (Wikivoyage:India Expedition/Madhya Pradesh would be next).
Several users — most of them not admins — have made great contributions to improving numerous articles about India, including User:Matroc, User:DaGizza and User:Gobbler. In addition, User:Ypsilon, User:Matroc and User:Ibaman were among the people who did a lot of good work along with me to make Jaipur good enough for a Destination of the month feature, and User:Ravikiran r, a longtime admin by the way, has been doing a lot of work on Udupi, among other articles. If you'd like to help more in fixing deficiencies of articles about India, please have a look at the India Expedition page, and get to work. You don't need to be an admin to help. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:38, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose -- This self-nomination remind me of this. While, I'm not against self-nominations but in this case, I'm. Though User:Prof tpms has been making a a lot of efforts to improve Indian-related articles but yes as far I can feel he's not yet ready for administrators job. IK has very well gave the explanation that one not need to be an admin to improve articles. Professor I hope you will keep your valuable work and don't get disappointed. Thank you! --Saqib (talk) 10:53, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I support Saqib's point of view for the moment. Ibaman (talk) 11:36, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Nice to see you take an interest, Prof. Manna, and you've been making great additions. I'll be happy to support you in the future, if you've become more involved in the "administrator" kind of tasks. At this moment, I think you're misunderstanding the administrator task a bit. Articles and regions are improved by good editors; whether they have administrator buttons or not makes no difference at all. To be an administrator, you need to show that you have a good understanding of how our policies work. You're doing excellent work in expanding articles, but since you have not yet participated in any general policy discussions, we can't really judge. Looking through some of your recent edits, I get the impression that maybe you're not familiar with all of our policies yet. Take for example Beypore. You recently moved that article to Beypore Beach because, you say, the beach is the only important attraction. While that may be true, and while it would be perfectly fine to create a redirect for Beypore Beach, it is not our policy to name articles after their main attraction. Also, if you do move a page, you're supposed to fix the article title and the incoming links. Don't worry: it's not a big problem, we will change it back. These kinds of edits do show however, that you are not yet aware of all our policies. I'd like to suggest you read some more of them, apply them and start participating in general discussions. Then, in a few months, I'm sure you'll find plenty of support here! Keep up the great work! JuliasTravels (talk) 13:43, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you all for the comments on my edits even though there is some criticism. I believe in learning from such pieces of advice. With regards, Prof. Manna (talk) 13:51, 18 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Not yet This user's contributions are hugely appreciated, but at this time I don't think the contribution history demonstrates that the additional capabilities provided by administrator status would be needed. In the future, when the Professor has done more work in crafting Wikivoyage policy and patrolling edits, this nomination should be revisited. -- Ryan • (talk) • 16:15, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Result: Not yet. -- Ryan • (talk) • 02:02, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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