Talk:British Columbia

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Archived discussions

Regional Tweeks[edit]

@Ikan Kekek, Shaundd: After going through the process of overhauling Alberta's regions, I'm wondering if some of the regions BC could be reviewed?

Right now, there is a discrepancy between the maps and some of the regional structures, specifically the map says Canyons and the Cariboo, and follows the Trans Canada Highway from Cache Creek to Yale (north of Hope); however, the Thompson & Fraser Canyons are listed under Thompson-Nicola (the Thompson-Okanagan map also excludes the Fraser Canyon). In looking in past discussions and BC official travel documentation, it looks like the Fraser Canyon should be in the Thompson-Nicola, so I'm wondering if the maps can be updated? Another option is the changes are reverted as the top-level Cariboo region does not have many listings, though that doesn't align with official tourist regions.

I compared some of the regions further north to the official travel regions and noticed that some changes could be considered? I'm wondering about getting rid of the North and Central Coast as a top level region since the Central Coast is inaccessible by car from the Northern Coast. Official travel documentation includes the Central Coast with the Cariboo as you must go west from Williams Lake.

I'm also thinking Northern British Columbia might need split into sub-regions; currently there are 11 cities + 4 other articles, and if the North Coast were added, it could be another 7-9 (some cities are referenced but articles don't exist). The subheadings on the current page would work well, with the possibility of Stikine being included with the North Coast, while Nechako-North Cariboo and Robson Valley could be combined into a single sub-region. Thoughts? -- MuzikMachine (talk) 05:54, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi MuzikMachine, I've actually been working in the background to setup a reorg of BC's northern regions... I think you beat me to it by a couple of days. :-)
Proposal to break up Northern BC
I was going to approach it by breaking up Northern British Columbia, which is a common geographic reference but I think it's a poor travel region due to its size -- it covers two time zones, two mountain ranges and part of the central plateau of BC. I think most travellers are doing Prince George/Prince Rupert or they're doing Prince George/Alaska Highway, but they're not doing Prince Rupert/Cassiar Highway and the Alaska Highway (unless you have an RV and lots of time). Using the subheadings in Northern British Columbia, I'd like to:
  • move Peace Country and Northern Rockies to its own top-level region -- it's east of the Rockies, different time zone and possibly more connected to Alberta than most of BC (note - I had started a draft of this region at User:Shaundd/Articles in progress)
  • move the Nechako-North Cariboo cities to Cariboo. The name could stay as Cariboo (it's certainly referenced that way by some government departments and media outlets), although something like Cariboo-Nechako would probably be more accurate (historically, Prince George and the Nechako River/Plateau were not part of the Cariboo)
  • move Stikine destinations to North and Central Coast
  • combine Robson Valley destinations with North Thompson destinations to make a new "North Thompson and Robson Valley" subregion in Thompson-Okanagan. The reason for this is many (most?) travellers coming up BC Highway 5 through the North Thompson valley go through the Robson Valley into Jasper. There's also commonality because both the Robson Valley and North Thompson are mountain destinations. It also aligns with BC's tourism definition of Thompson-Okanagan.
  • leave Northern British Columbia as an extra-hierarchal region. As I said earlier, it's a common geographical reference in BC so I think there's value in keeping the article.
About the map, yeah, it's out of date. It's a painful one to fix and I've wanted to rejig the regions so I put off updating the map. I'll do it right once we agree on where to go with the regions.
For the Central Coast, I think it's six of one and half dozen of the other. You're right, there is no road connection between the North and Central Coasts. There is a ferry. If we do split them, we could do "Cariboo-Central Coast" and that would leave "North Coast-Stikine" (assuming my proposal above), which would be pretty clean. I'm not sure the Cariboo needs subregions though. There's two roads (Hwy 97 and Hwy 20), three if you include the Yellowhead, and probably 9-10 articles max if you include the core Cariboo, Prince George and the Nechako, the Chilcotin (which is often included under "Cariboo") and the Central Coast.
Unfortunately, I don't have a map ready just yet to illustrate what I'm proposing. A rough map is above to capture what I was thinking. Thoughts? -Shaundd (talk) 06:43, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Shaundd, personally I would still like to keep Northern British Columbia as a top level region, with Nechako, North Coast, and Peace Country and Northern Rockies as subregions. I've observed that Prince George-Alaska via the Cassiar Highway is recommended more commonly than I would have expected, as it's the shortest overland route between Alaska and the Pacific Northwest, so having a larger umbrella to link everything might have some benefit. Historically I think the Robson Valley was part of Northern BC, but double-checking it's now part of the Thompson-Okanagan, so I'm good with making the change. I also noticed that the Cariboo is now called Cariboo Chilcotin Coast so I'm thinking that the Cariboo page could be renamed accordingly. Here's some good resources on the official regional breakdown (I'm not sure which is "official", but they're consistent between the three sites):
I'm wondering if some of the names and boundaries of some of the other regions should modified to match as well? -- MuzikMachine (talk) 23:58, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@MuzikMachine: I'm not convinced we need a Northern BC umbrella, but if we do, both the Nechako and North Coast-Stikine regions currently have very few articles -- three in each. There are places that probably could have articles like Kitimat, Dease Lake, Burns Lake, Fort St James and Mackenzie, but until they're created the subregions are going to be pretty sparse. If we go the subregion route, I also think Haida Gwaii should be placed as a direct subregion of Northern BC.
About the regions you linked to, they're not official. They're just regions created by the tourism agency and they've had success in getting other tourist organizations to adopt them. Some of the regions correspond to wider use, such as Thompson-Okanagan, Kootenays and Northern BC. Others, like Vancouver, Coast & Mountains, only show up in tourist literature with little usage outside of it. "Cariboo Chilcotin Coast" is in-between. It's a marketing creation but it seems to have had some limited pick-up outside of tourism marketing circles. I personally don't like lifting names from tourism agencies and would prefer to go with the actual regional district names, which are Cariboo and Central Coast -- hence the "Cariboo-Central Coast" name I mentioned earlier. I don't think Chilcotin is needed as "Cariboo" commonly includes it.
In terms of changing other region names and boundaries, I don't think it's needed. With the changes we've been discussing, we'll be pretty close to the tourist agency regions anyway. And I think the biggest name difference is Vancouver, Coast and Mountains, which in my outspoken opinion, is a useless name. The broader region is the Lower Mainland or the South Coast and that's what it is called in the media, the news, the weather, government departments, etc. I'll stop ranting now! :-) -Shaundd (talk) 04:04, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Very off-topic here, I'd like to thank you all for all the tweaks on Yuquot which got Guide status very quickly. Gold River is not far behind. Big thumbs up for the community. Wikivoyage is the best. Ibaman (talk) 00:10, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Hi Ibaman, no worries and glad to help. It was a good team effort. -Shaundd (talk) 04:08, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────@MuzikMachine, Shaundd: In response to Shaun's comments above about Nechako and North Coast-Stikine regions having very few articles, I'd like to ask for some caution to be exercised about creating new regions before they are needed. Wikivoyage is littered with region articles with very little content created by people who have good intentions to come back later to create city articles. I've been trying to bring region articles up to usable status, and it's really difficult to do if there is little to draw on from the city articles.

I think it's better to populate the city articles first, bring them up to usable status, and then only create new regions if the exist region articles get to big. Moving cities between regions isn't a problem if there are enough city articles to go around. Northern British Columbia has 11 city articles and 3 park articles, which really isn't too many at this point. Thanks, Ground Zero (talk) 10:39, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Shaundd, Ground Zero: Good to know. I still feel that the Central Coast should be incorporated into the Cariboo while the North Coast should be integrated into Northern British Columbia, and I agree with moving the Robson Valley into the Thompson-Okanagan. I'm still unsure about breaking apart Northern BC and promoting Peace Country and Northern Rockies into a top-level region, though I get it that it's distinct. -- MuzikMachine (talk) 03:25, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I was able to find the policy on this:
"Importantly, we only add a level of regions when there is too much content in the existing breakdown."
Ground Zero (talk) 10:48, 7 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Ground Zero, Shaundd: Hi everyone, I guess I'm still trying to best understand when sub-regions are and are not needed as the guidelines are open to some interpretation. First, I feel that if an area has some pre-defined, recognized tourist regions, it would be best to try to follow them, though I acknowledge that some areas are more clear than others; but in the case of BC it is fairly consistent depending on the source. Saying that, Northern British Columbia probably at the threshold of being a single region or being divided into sub-regions.
  • Currently, Northern British Columbia has 11 City articles and 4 Other destinations. If the Robson Valley was moved to Thompson-Nicola (which I support) but North Coast were added, it would be 11 City articles and 5 Other destinations. According to Wikivoyage:Region article template, "If there are more than nine cities and the region could be sensibly divided into subregions, consider doing so."
  • The generally accepted definition of Northern British Columbia is everything along and north of the Yellowhead Highway (Hwy 16), with exception of the Robson Valley. With that large area also being segmented into other areas, such as the Peace Country, and the rule of 3, it could work and provide enough acceptable content.
  • The Cariboo (or whatever name we land on) is little weak in terms of the number of articles, adding the Central Coast along with adding some missing pieces could strengthen it.
Maybe I'm guilty of letting myself nerd out the data organizing, but I figured I'd make my case. :-) Ultimately, I'll go with consensus and if it's premature to spit everything up, that's fine. Thanks to everyone for all you do! Is the other proposal essentially reverting back to Region shuffle - part 2? -- MuzikMachine (talk) 17:19, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know enough about BC to be able to comment knowledgeably about how it should be regionalized. I'm looking at it from the reader's perspective. Northern BC could be broken up, but it doesn't have to be broken up. If it is broken into three subregions, then we'd probably end up with three outline subregion articles with little content that do nothing for the reader but act as an extra step on the way to the city/park articles. If the subregion articles are written with good overviews of what to see and do there, then they are worth having. If not, then they are more for the contributors' desire to organize than for the readers' benefit. Outline region articles are more hindrance than help, so let's not create them for the sake of organizing. Ground Zero (talk) 20:27, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I think the main argument for breaking Northern BC up is it's such a large geographic entity with two large mountain ranges running through it (and two time zones) that it's not a helpful travel region. That said, it is commonly used in BC by many organizations (including the official tourism agency) so I think we need a Northern BC article in some capacity. Here's a thought I had this afternoon on addressing it that I think tweaks what we've been discussing but hopefully addresses Ground Zero's concerns:
  • Split North and Central Coast. North Coast destinations to Northern BC, Central Coast destinations to Cariboo.
  • Split Northern BC into three subregions: Peace Country and Northern Rockies which is everything east of the Rockies, North Coast-Nechako for everything west of the Rockies, and Haida Gwaii. My reason for splitting it this way is to capture travel patterns by highway. West of the Rockies (North Coast-Nechako) is the Yellowhead Hwy, which captures the Prince George-Prince Rupert traffic; east of the Rockies captures the Alaska Highway traffic. Geographically, the Coast Mountains split the North Coast-Nechako region, but I think from a traveller's perspective on that road, it can make sense to have every destination between Prince George and Prince Rupert in the same region. The towns in each region (based on existing guides) would be:
    • North Coast-Nechako - Prince Rupert, Terrace, Stewart, Vanderhoof, Prince George, Smithers
    • Peace Country and Northern Rockies - Dawson Creek, Fort St John, Chetwynd, Fort Nelson, Tumbler Ridge
    • Haida Gwaii (no changes)
  • Cariboo could be left Cariboo, or called Cariboo-Central Coast. There would be no subregions.
I think this is manageable because we're only creating one new subregion -- Peace Country and Northern Rockies -- which shouldn't be difficult to make usable based on the info that's already in the Northern BC guide (I've already made a start here). North Coast-Nechako would be a remodelled North and Central Coast page (which is already usable) and Haida Gwaii is already usable. There's cleaning up to do but I think it's doable. Thoughts? -Shaundd (talk) 01:02, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I forgot to mention the Robson Valley above because we agree on moving it. For clarity, I was planning on splitting Thompson-Nicola, with the North Thompson destinations joining the Robson Valley destinations in a new North Thompson and Robson Valley subregion (which would be part of Thompson-Okanagan). I'd propose renaming Thompson-Nicola to South Thompson-Fraser Canyon, which is the broad area the region would cover. -Shaundd (talk) 08:14, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Shaundd, Ground Zero: I'm good with that, thanks! --MuzikMachine (talk) 13:57, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As long as you're not splitting a usable article onto two outline articles, it's okay. It was hard work bringing the Northern BC article up to usable status, especially as I am not familiar with the area. (I am planning a trip there soon, depending on how things reopen.) Breaking it up into outline articles doesn't serve the reader. As long as you going to create the new articles as usable articles by adding in the necessary information, I'm okay with it. Ground Zero (talk) 21:55, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That's the plan. I think the draft Peace Country and Northern Rockies guide is already usable and we'll make sure the remodelled North and Central Coast/North Coast-Nechako guide will retain its usable status. -Shaundd (talk) 07:29, 13 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Implementation[edit]

It looks like we have agreement, so I went ahead and setup the North Thompson and Robson Valley region and integrated it with Thompson-Okanagan, and moved the draft Peace Country and Northern Rockies guide into the main namespace. Next steps include:

  • Move Central Coast destinations (Bella Bella and Bella Coola) to Cariboo and update breadcrumbs Yes Done
  • Update Cariboo page to reflect Central Coast Yes Done
  • Rename "North and Central Coast" to "North Coast-Nechako" and add the Nechako-North Cariboo destinations from Northern British Columbia to it. Update breadcrumbs Yes Done
  • Move Peace Country and Northern Rockies destinations from Northern British Columbia and update breadcrumbs. Yes Done
  • Update North Coast-Nechako page to reflect new region structure Yes Done
  • Add subregions and descriptions to Northern British Columbia Yes Done
  • Update Northern BC page to include North Coast & Haida Gwaii highlights. Trim list of cities to 9 Yes Done
  • Update Haida Gwaii to be a region instead of a rural area. Yes Done
  • Update Haida Gwaii breadcrumb Yes Done
  • Add new maps for British Columbia, Northern BC and Thompson-Okanagan Yes Done

I think that's everything. If anything is missing, please update the list. Cheers -Shaundd (talk) 07:29, 13 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Shaundd: Looks good! Just to confirm, was the Cariboo going to remain named as "Cariboo" or be renamed "Cariboo-Central Coast"? --MuzikMachine (talk) 16:26, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I also stumbled across a Russian article for Wells Gray Provincial Park. I was able to translate it to English via Google Translate (I have no proficiency in Russian) but it still needs cleaning up; I have a draft in User:MuzikMachine/sandbox (Edit: it's uploaded). -- MuzikMachine (talk) 16:43, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@MuzikMachine: Thanks, I saw that article on ru:wikivoyage on the weekend. I had the same idea to translate it but hadn't had a chance yet.
Re Cariboo, I'm a bit on the fence but leaning to changing the name. If we do, it should probably get a new Wikidata ID because it's not just the Cariboo anymore. Do you know how that works? I was also wondering if we should create the Cariboo-Central Coast page fresh so, if we ever create subregions, we'll just need to undo the redirect for Cariboo (I'm assuming Cariboo would be region). Thoughts? -Shaundd (talk) 03:32, 16 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Shaundd: Personally I like Cariboo-Central Coast b/c otherwise Bella Coola/Bella Bella probably don't have anything else in common with the Cariboo. I could set up a new Wikidata ID, that wouldn't be too difficult. I don't foresee that region being divided into subregions for a long time, but that works if you want to set the infrastructure in place. -- MuzikMachine (talk) 22:56, 17 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm working on the new page for North Coast-Nechako, which is mostly a re-purpose of North and Central Coast. I noticed the current banner is actually taken at Thunderbird Park in Victoria - nowhere near the actual region. The content is appropriate to the region but isn't actually taken from the area, does that matter or should we consider replacing it? -- MuzikMachine (talk) 22:02, 20 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@MuzikMachine: Yeah, I think the banner needs to be replaced then. And let's go with Cariboo-Central Coast. Sorry for not working on this, things have gotten busy so not so much free time lately. -Shaundd (talk) 06:00, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. If there is agreement I support the changes to the regions. Likewise I have made a proposal for East Central Florida that could do with some input. I understand many are not familiar with that region but a little research of the counties/regions should resolve that problem. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 16:32, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I've only ever been to Orlando once, but I'll give it a look. -Shaundd (talk) 03:34, 16 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Shaundd: I've updated the articles, looks like it's ready for the maps. Cheers! -- MuzikMachine (talk) 15:45, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@MuzikMachine: Sorry for not getting to the maps. I've had almost no free time the last couple of weeks, but I haven't forgotten about them. -Shaundd (talk) 15:19, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Vancouver Island discussion[edit]

I was also going to bring this up elsewhere but since the conversation is going, but I was wondering if it would be worth considering shifting Campbell River, Strathcona Provincial Park, Yuquot, and Gold River (British Columbia) (basicially everything inside the Strathcona Regional District) from Central Vancouver Island to North Vancouver Island? Currently Central Vancouver Island has 12 city & 4 park articles while North Vancouver Island has 3 city & 1 park article so it might balance things out a bit more. As I understand, Campbell River could be considered either be Central or Northern, but it acts the gateway to Northern Vancouver Island. The other communities are accessed via Hwy 28 from Campbell River. Cheers! --MuzikMachine (talk) 13:57, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I hear the balance argument and I've seen Campbell River in North, Central and North Central so it wouldn't be out of place to have it in either region. My main concern is what makes the most sense to travellers when they're on the ground. Campbell River and Courtenay/Comox to the south are all part of the same coastal plain that runs the eastern length of what we're calling Central Vancouver Island. The area is dotted with small communities along the coast. And driving Hwy 19 and 19A up to Campbell River, I didn't get the sense I was in a different region. There's a natural breakpoint northwest of Campbell River though because the geography changes and the string of settlement breaks. I just feel we'd be forcing the regions a bit if we put Campbell River in the north rather than letting the shape of the land and population patterns guide them. -Shaundd (talk) 16:00, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Shaundd: Ok. I've never visited the area, only seen it on maps, so if it makes more sense in Central that's fine. -- MuzikMachine (talk) 20:46, 12 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Floods[edit]

There are severe floods, closed roads, rescue operations, ... [1] [2]

I added a warning box for the town of Merritt which has been evacuated. What other warnings do we need? Pashley (talk) 22:23, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Highway 7 is stuck so maybe the towns on it. Tai123.123 (talk) 23:33, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Vancouver is now completely cut off from the rest of Canada by road. Pashley (talk) 05:06, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Communities evacuated, highways washed away as relentless rain pounds B.C. Pashley (talk) 12:22, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I added a warning box. Do some region articles also need one?Pashley (talk) 10:42, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I did that for some articles about my neighbourhood earlier this year. Could do, but it does require high maintenance by keeping track of it. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:44, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Travel in BC at the moment is a definite no-no. Even sections ofthe Transcanada are closed. The province has declared a state of emergency. Cities the size of Abbotsford have been cutoff from the rest of the province. Grocery stores have empty shelves, the supply chain is not there. Ottawahitech (talk) 16:15, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Update: Transcanada is still closed for traffic between Vancouver and the rest of Canada. Some people who opted to travel through the US were fined $5,700 when they returned to Canada see: COVID-19: Feds promise to clear British Columbians’ fines for travelling without PCR test. Ottawahitech (talk) 23:04, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Trans-Canada Highway#Victoria to Winnipeg says that there's construction, but doesn't say anything about any floods. Are you certain about this?
Nothing seems to be certain :) (Great to see someone is actually paying attention)
I just found out today that the BC goverment has been holding daily press briefing on the state of emergency. Problem is it seems only media outlets seem to know when those briefing are expected to be held, so only if you sit glued to a TV set all day &night, have access to the correct TV stattions, and are lucky to see a snippet of one of those briefings, you get to find out a little bit of the puzzle. Some of the press briefings are carried through social networks, if you happen to be a member. Fot example, I am no longer a twitter member so cannot log in to see the latest, and am not able to follow hashtags (I think, don't really have the time to try and figure out how it works right noew)
One thing I just found out listenting to CTV news is that a "parade of storms" is headed over this Thursday-Friday. I am trying to keep a record of some official quotes on the state of the emergency at Wikiquote: 2021 BC floods. Hope this helps, Ottawahitech (talk) 00:35, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! I was reading this discussion yesterday. Please keep us up to date. Thank you. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 19:48, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I heard on the news (Global, I believe) that the weather forecast is another 90 millimeters of rain in the Fraser Valley today. There are now 4 images at commons:Category:2021 floods in British Columbia. Files in that Category will provide links to pages on wmf-sites that use them. The enwiki article that was not getting a lot of love, has a see also section that point to a new page that describes Atlantic Canada floods. Ottawahitech (talk) 20:18, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It's weird that this is 1) not talked about in American news outlets and 2) doesn't seem to be affecting our side of the border, unless that's just not been mentioned, either. Forecasts indicate the rain continuing for at least the next several days, so I'd imagine the flooding will be horrendous by the time it is finally over. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 22:03, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@SelfieCity: Its not only American news that are not covering the disaster unfolding in BC. CBC News (w:Canada Broadcasting Corporation) did not discover that dozens of people spent the night under a landslide on Highway 7 between Hope & Agassiz, where some of the casualties occured, until a day later. Cheers, Ottawahitech (talk) 15:27, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
(continue) The confusion can also can be partially attributed to enwiki where the article about this disaster is now named w:November 2021 Pacific Northwest floods. Notice that this name does not mention the word "mudslide". As far as the location "Pacific Northwest" there is an unresolved discussion on the talkpage. There were some earlier excellent contributions to the page from an long-time-enwiki-contributor, but I no longer see this user contributing any more. Ottawahitech (talk) 16:46, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
TransCanada Highway (some call it Highway 1) re-opened for traffic a couple of days ago after being closed for traffic for over a week. I don't know if it re-closed after yesterday's storm. During the week that it was closed the city of Chilliwack was isolated from the rest of Western BC, I hear some people utilized Chilliwack's small airport which services small non-commercial planes (I think, but should look it up on enwiki when I get a chance). Ottawahitech (talk) 15:35, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
(another update) Residents of Sumas and Everson in Washington State have received a text alert advising them to "volunterily evacuate", whatever that means. I got this information 3rd or 4th hand Ottawahitech (talk) 19:33, 28 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
(November 28 update) Trans Canada closed again between Abbotsford and Chilliwack as of 5pm. The Trans Canada (hwy 1) connects Vancover with the rest of Canada. Ottawahitech (talk) 17:28, 29 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
(December 2 update) Heard on news that Hwy 1 is supposed to re-open at Abbotsford this aft. Of course this can be temporary until more snow-melt from the last atmospheric river arrives.
BTW I was listening to an interview on live TV with a chief of an Indian band in the Thompson-Nicola region. She claimed that damage to Abbotsford is nothing compared to what happened to them and others in the region (sorry I am paraphrasing). Ottawahitech (talk) 20:59, 2 December 2021 (UTC) TV flashed by an image of a gaping hole where a bridge used to be. Ottawahitech (talk) 21:17, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
(December 3 update) Just a couple of British Columbia web sites with regular updates about the state of the floods/mudslides