Talk:Morocco

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Formatting and language conventions

For articles about Morocco, please use the 24-hour clock to show times, e.g. 09:00-12:00 and 18:00-00:00.

Please show prices in this format: 100 dirham — not 100 dirhams, 100 MAD, Dh100, 100 dh, 100 MD, D100, 100dH

Please use British spelling.

'See' section[edit]

Don't we need a 'See' section for special "must-see" attractions?

They go in the Other Destinations section. See Project:Country article template. -- (WT-en) Colin 15:16, 19 May 2005 (EDT)
Currently the article does not have such a section. One such destination to include would be Merzouge, from where one may embark on a camel excursion into the Sahara.[1],[2],[3] Maybe I'll write about it when I have some time. -- (WT-en) Gyrofrog (talk) 02:00, 24 Jun 2005 (EDT)

External links moved[edit]

Some WikiTraveler left the following external links that might be useful to researchers.

More external links: taxi and car[edit]

Few more external links on travelling by taxi and by car:

It has some ideas we would welcome here--but is it OK to just transcribe key of them in this article? Will it conform to our policy on using copyrighted content? BTW, here's who they are and why they are doing that: http://www.triotours.com/faq/about/who-is.htm. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 23:37, 15 November 2006 (EST)

No, you can not use this content in WikiTravel. It is copyrighted material.

Sleep for Dh75 is expensive budget?[edit]

I wonder if the prices like this really exist anywhere in Morocco:

youth hostels in the major cities (dorm beds from around Dh 50)
budget hotels: singles from around Dh 65
slightly more expensive budget (singles from around Dh 75) and mid-range hotels sprinkled throughout ville nouvelles

From my experience, typical budget accommodation is from EUR50 to EUR80 per double, which is about x10 higher then the figures above. Can anyone support that the prices above are real and up-to-date? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 15:53, 13 November 2006 (EST)

These prices seem reasonable for the major cities, though they are on the cheap side. I was travelling in Morocco in January of this year, and was paying about 100Dh a night on average - 50 at lowest, 200 at highest. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 203.63.0.143 (talkcontribs)

Buses are more reliable than trains?[edit]

I removed several quotations like this, as they give more questions than answers. In what sense are they more reliable? Are there more buses per day than trains per day for the same connection? Are buses better in departing/arriving in time? Do they break up more rare than trains? Please give details on this--and we'll bring the phrase back to the guide. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 17:46, 22 November 2006 (EST)

Get around: by plane[edit]

We need more details here: routes available; frequency per day; give some idea on prices of domestic flights. Anyone willing to share? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 16:46, 24 November 2006 (EST)


URLs for ferries[edit]

Hi, I do respect you external links policy, but it is very annoying that I only see soem prices for ferries, but no names for companies nor website addresses. The wiki would be a good place for that. Now im in the hands of google, and the travel preparation gets much more of a fuss. --145.99.202.92

It's not against the external links policy to link to ferry companies; they're considered primary sources. What we'd want to avoid are links to guides to ferries. -- (WT-en) Jonboy 10:33, 4 January 2007 (EST)

hamams vs rhyads as a substitute of shower[edit]

These hotels can be very basic and often lack hot water and showers, while others will charge you between Dh 5 and Dh 10 for a hot water shower. Instead, consider public ryadhs (was:hammams) that are quite alot in medina and rural areas.

Dear 90.193.228.16, hammams look much more reasonable substitute for hotel shower, as riads are actually a mid-class kind of hotel, not a public bath. Why did you change hammams to ryadhs? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 05:06, 18 January 2007 (EST)

In a meanwhile, I reverted this change back to hammams--but I'm open to discuss it if someone willing to. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 03:58, 19 January 2007 (EST)

Traveling During the Ramadan Holiday[edit]

Is it possible traveling during the Ramadan Holiday? our planed vacation is scheduled for the same period of the year as the Ramadan happens to be celebrated. (WT-en) Homer 08:49, 30 June 2007 (EDT)

Yes, traveling isn't so much the problem, eating and drinking and smoking is. Muslims fast throughout the day, and you'll find that most restaurants won't be serving food between sunrise and sunset. It's polite for you to observe the fast as well, though technically non-Muslims and those who are traveling are exempt. You'll still be able to buy food in stores, etc and eat it in your hotel room. I find Ramadan a fun (if slightly more challenging) time to travel... the atmosphere is generally festive, it's sort of the equivalent of the western Christmas time. At the end of the month is Eid ul-Fitr, so be aware that for about a week at that time many if not all things may be closed, and transportation a bit more difficult. – (WT-en) cacahuate talk 05:28, 1 July 2007 (EDT)

Is a Carnet de Passage needed?[edit]

Could someone confirm (and include in the article under "Get In / By Car" section) whether you need a Carnet de Passage in order to bring your car into Morocco? I was told by my local automobile association that I need one, but on wikipedia Morocco isn't even listed among the countries where it is helpful to have one. Also, I do feel that it is a rather important information to have if you're planning on entering Morocco by car.


October 2009[edit]

I drove my spanish BMW to Morocco in 2005 without problems. I think you only need to show the special paper in case anythings happens, but I had no use for it. However, on the ferry I had to fill in a paper with details of the car that was handed to an officer at the arrival and I got one copy that MUST be shown upon return. Doing this carefully, no problem at all, excellent roads. Fun driving there, but the police love to use radars to check speeds, so keep speed exactly... it costed 400 DIRHAMS for speeding 120 km/h on a 80 km/h road, but I always got the money back after talking to them and apologizing nicely and really showing pacience. It can take some time, but they love tourists so if you behave decently, there is nothing to be afraid of apart from loosing some 30 minutes of time and waiting in the sun. I traveled another time at winter, this time the paper was to be filled in at arrival, park your car in the queue for foreign cars and go out and ask any uniformed person to give you the paper to fill in, fill it in and give it to an officer walking around there to get it stamped and once this is done you can enter the country freely. Do not pay any attention to people that are not uniformed since they just want to earn money for helping you. If you are lazy and it is too bad weather, it is alright but there is no guarantee they give you the correct info...

Going out of Morocco with a European car; be prepared that they will check the car for drugs carefully both before going on the ferry and upon entering Spain. In Morocco its more visual check, but in Spain its more technological check and they talk to you to check if you look to be of the personality that might try to import drugs. It is not worth the risks. Prision penalties even for a minimal amount of drugs. They even let trained dogs search outside and inside your car. So don´t even think about it.

—The preceding comment was added by 81.231.156.217 (talkcontribs) .


Regions[edit]

Morocco badly needs subregions. I am not familiar with the country, but here is my suggestion:

Do these seem like good travel regions? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 13:19, 27 September 2007 (EDT)

Almost[edit]

Almost. There's an almost decent breakup of the country here: [4]

I'm thinking, based on the above linked to map:

Does that sound reasonable to anyone else? Are there better names for High and Middle Atlas? – (WT-en) cacahuate talk 14:13, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

New proposal[edit]

Proposed regions by Cacahuate

Alright, I took my thoughts above, added Anti Atlas, and drew a map... how is this looking as a region breakdown for Morocco? Anything to change? Are the names agreeable? – (WT-en) cacahuate talk 23:12, 30 June 2008 (EDT)

I'm still pretty Morocco illiterate, but it looks good to me. I'm still hoping User:(WT-en) Spmenic might comment here, but if no one comments for a while, I say go forward with it. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 17:00, 2 July 2008 (EDT)
I'd say that in general these are pretty good--as good as we can get. We just have to understand that the subregions concept may not apply as well to Morocco as it does to other countries. Most Moroccans don't even know the 16 official regions of Morocco, and in fact if you look at the list you'll notice that almost all the "regions" are named after the major cities within them. That's because in Morocco the cities dominate many regional identities (for Berber regions, the particular dialect is another regional marker). Thus, whereas you might tell a friend that you're traveling to Tuscany, Italy--and then later go into detail as to which cities you're visiting (Pisa, Lucca, etc.), it is quite the opposite in Morocco. For the tourist (and even for Moroccans), the major cities always dominate the region. Hence, one guidebook I have breaks itself down this way: 1) In and around Casablanca, 2) In and around Rabat, 3) In and around Tangier, 4) In and around Fes and Meknes, 5) In and around Marrakech, and 6) In and around Agadir. I'm not suggesting that we switch to that, but there's a reason for breaking things down this way. Thus, while the map as drawn might be a good starting point, it might make more sense (as the Moroccans have done and the guidebook I mentioned) to include the city names in at least some of the the subregions. For example, the "Fes and Meknes region" or the "Marrakech and High Atlas region." Also, on the map we have to switch "High Atlas" and "Middle Atlas." The High Atlas mountains are the ones near Marrakech. All that said...these subdivisions seem like a good place to start. I just think we need to make sure we have a sense of how they help travelers explore Morocco better--and then develop them with that in mind. (WT-en) Spmenic 18:59, 3 July 2008 (EDT)
Cool, that all sounds great... I'm not sure that there will be a need at all to subdivide these regions further... we only tend to break countries down as far as we need to to make digestable chunks for the traveler, and I can't see any of these articles getting so huge as to need further breaking down... but I suppose we'll see how they develop... thanks for the feedback Spmenic. I think I'm gonna move ahead and start creating these regions later today, they seem like a good division... and if there's debate over the naming of them later, that's easy enough to change – (WT-en) cacahuate talk 19:32, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

Left Handedness[edit]

The article states to avoid doing anything with your left hand, as the Moroccans perceive the left hand is used for handling excretion. Is this for real? c'mon, the Moroccans should know that most foreigners simply do not go around in life handling crap. But the problem is that being left handed I could not even sign my name with my right hand. To what extent is this anti-left hand guideline a real issue in their culture?

You should eat with your right hand, and use your right hand to give or receive anything, such as money, etc... and only touch people with your right hand. Otherwise you're ok using your left for writing etc. – (WT-en) cacahuate talk 14:06, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

Currency Abbreviation and Usage[edit]

We need to decide upon one standard way to represent prices for all the Morocco travel pages. Looking just at this Morocco page and the Marrakech page, I've seen prices listed with "dirhams" spelled out and abbreviated, with various different forms of abbreviations, with the abbreviations before and after the price, and with abbreviations next to and spaced out from the price. The permutations are many, all of which seem to be used at least once.

Here are actual examples (no kidding) copied directly from those two pages:

  • dhr 100
  • Dh 10
  • 10 Dhm
  • 130 Dh
  • 20Dh
  • 7dh
  • 30 DH
  • 20DH
  • 20 Dirham
  • 30 Dirhams
  • 90 dirham
  • 10 dirhams

After searching the web, there doesn't seem to be a consensus among other guides either. Lonely Planet lists prices in this format: DH 100. Rough Guides uses this format: 100dh. A New York Times article on Marrakech lists prices this way: 100 dirhams.

No matter what, we need to standardize things. (WT-en) Spmenic 00:34, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

Indeed! Project:Spelling Project:Currency is the current policy, which guides us to use a symbol or abbreviation when possible, placed before the amount... I think it should definitely be capitalized, which leaves us to decide between Dh and DH... I think I prefer the former, but could live with either – (WT-en) cacahuate talk 03:21, 3 August 2008 (EDT)
Thank you! The Project:Spelling page led me to find a great resource for Wikivoyage, the Webster's Dictionary money table. If we are using Webster's Third New International Dictionary as our source for spelling, then the money table is its official list of currency symbols. The symbol it gives for the Moroccan dirham is DH in all capitals. So that answers one question.
As to whether it goes before or after, I didn't find anything on the Project:Spelling page and I'm not sure it is simply a function of American English spelling. The Wikipedia article on currency sign states that "When writing currency amounts the location of the sign varies by currency." I wonder if the question should be: How are prices actually written in Morocco? I think the Moroccan convention should take precedence here. I'm going to look through some photos of Morocco for signs with prices and look at some official websites of the Moroccan government to see what it does.
Woops, I meant Project:Currency :) – (WT-en) cacahuate talk 16:14, 3 August 2008 (EDT)
Ah! Sounds good. So are decided that the standard should be DH 100? (WT-en) Spmenic 20:05, 3 August 2008 (EDT)
Works for me! – (WT-en) cacahuate talk 20:13, 3 August 2008 (EDT)



Staying outside cities[edit]

In June and July, how easy is it to get accomodation in small towns? I'm thinking of hiring a 4wd, with driver, and exploring the High Atlas Mountains. I'd need to park and sleep in small villages, and make day trips on foot, starting well before dawn.

Would it be possible to rock up to a small village, such as here: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=N31+27.121+W6+37.805&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&ll=31.559815,-6.630249&spn=2.335507,4.943848&z=8&iwloc=addr and be confident that I could get accommodation?

I am not keen on camping, largely because it would require the transportation of too much gear on the plane. (WT-en) Arpitt 10:47, 8 January 2009 (EST)

Currency[edit]

How is currency represented in Morocco - as Dh, MAD or something else? I think it's important to represent the currency according to the standard symbol or abbreviation used in the country. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:14, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

As in many countries, there is NOT a "standard symbol or abbreviation" used throughout Morocco. In that respect, the current article is spot on when it says:
"The local currency is the Moroccan dirham for which the ISO 4217 code is MAD (sometimes symbolised as Dh or Dhs or DH or درهم or the plural form of دراهم or Dhm)"
I've also seen md and MD and dh and dhs and it's also common in shops and souks to just see a decimal number with no symbolisation or abbreviation whatever! --222.127.76.207 12:42, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

@Ikan Kekek: So it is clear that there is no standard notation in Morocco, but there should be a standard notation in Wikivoyage, to the extent possible, and the Morocco article should note that usage in the country varies. I scanned several city articles, and they also use a wide range -- no notation stands out as being the most common. I nominate 100 Dh as being a notation that is short and clear, but to be honest, there aren't really good arguments for or against any one of the many notations being used. Ground Zero (talk) 17:25, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

I don't think we should spend any time enforcing a standard notation if they don't have one. The only standard we should have is comprehensibility. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:40, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
Consistency makes it easier for the reader to understand Wikivoyage. When they get to Morocco, they'll have to deal with inconsistency, but they shouldn't have to here. It makes WV look random and disorganized. Ground Zero (talk) 18:13, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
There's a cost-benefit issue. How much is your time worth to you, and what else could you be doing to improve the site if you don't try to standardize a currency whose notation isn't actually standardized? Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:54, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
I am talking about adopting a standard format only. I fix currency notations when I am doing general copyedits on an article to fix style and formatting problems, clean up dead links, remove touting, fix bad translations, etc. I think this sort of editing improves the usability of Wikivoyage. If you don't, you don't have to do it. I am not going to try to tell you or other editors what they should work on - I find that people in collaborative online projects rarely work on what other people tell them to. Ground Zero (talk) 14:00, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
Yeah, I won't stand in your way. But on the other hand, I don't think you need to propose an official site standard format in order to engage in a one-person editing project. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:33, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
But maybe someone has a good reason to use a different format that I should know about before starting. I thought it would be polite to ask. Ground Zero (talk) 04:16, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

On the other hand, WV:$ says to use "dirhams", which would avoid any disagreement about abbreviation to use. Ground Zero (talk) 03:22, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

That seems like the best approach. Powers (talk) 00:46, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Towns in "Other destinations"[edit]

"Other destinations" really means "Destinations other than cities (towns, villages, etc.)", such as parks, archeological sites, perhaps beaches. Is there a way to redesign the listings for towns so that whatever overriding attraction that's in the towns is mentioned, or do they have to be removed from the list? One example of how to deal with this is in India#Other destinations. Note that instead of listing Bodh Gaya, the main temple complex (an "other destination") is listed. Etc. But sometimes, this is not really possible because it's really the town itself that's the draw, not some overriding attraction there that's the reason for most people to visit. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:36, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

Terror threat in Morocco[edit]

I am unsure if the assertion that Morocco is a safe place to travel is generally accurate A number of foreign offices have warned their citizens against traveling in the region because of the growing influence of ISIS/ISIL/Deash. Only at the start of the year a major terror cell was broken up, and the general threat has been high for some time, Morrocan news sources are claiming the number of cells dismantled in the last two years is about 40, almost all ISIS linked.

I don't want to cause undue concern for travelers, but it seems irresponsible giving broad assurances of the safety of travelers in light of recent events.

If these concerns seem valid to everyone, it would seem prudent to at least put a not in "stay safe"

—The preceding comment was added by 41.141.201.49 (talkcontribs)

Western Sahara[edit]

How should this guide handle Western Sahara? Right now, it seems to treat W. Sahara as a separate country. I'm thinking that it shouldn't: That the guide should cover the Moroccan-controlled part of W. Sahara, and should list the Western Sahara guide as one of the the sub-regions of Morocco. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 10:54, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

As the guide currently reads, "As travel conditions in the Western Sahara are remarkably different from a traveller's point of view, it is treated as its own entity. This is not a political endorsement of claims by any side in the dispute over the sovereignty of these territories." Don't you think that's true? —Justin (koavf)TCM 14:56, 7 September 2017 (UTC)
I think that's a simplification. Certainly, the Free Zone is its own entity from the traveler's point of view. And even in the Moroccan Zone: There are substantial differences that the traveler needs to be aware of (as was pointed out at Talk:Western Sahara#Should we merge to Morocco?). Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 15:22, 7 September 2017 (UTC)
At the very least: I think the region map should show W. Sahara. Even the Serbia map shows Kosovo, and Serbia doesn't control Kosovo. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 07:51, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

Policy queries[edit]

Swept in from the pub

I am traveling through Morocco and I wonder if it is appropriate to add second hand sources directly to the wiki. While my gut feeling is that I should witness everything myself, I wonder how much discretion should be given generally in regards to basic information (like the price of a bus, or entry to a public pool). using my better judgement, would it be appropriate to take the word of a local? I guess I'm unsure how to balance the interest of adding and updating information for travelers quickly, and the risk of disinformation.

And as a relatively new editor I am reluctant to even raise the issue, but yesterday I added a hotel listing which I thought was warranted and I asked the hotel manager to confirm some prices and information for me (opening hours, phone number etc). Before I knew it he cottoned onto the line of my questions and my room became free of charge; the guy wouldn't even let me pay him. Some people might just think "yea free room" but it immediately raised all kinds of red flags for me, While I'm confident my edits are fair and that I'm not touting in any way I'm unsure about the wiki-voyage policy on this. Naturally it would be better to refuse favors altogether but this can cause great offence for cultural reasons in some places. The guy even told me to write that another hotel smelled bad. Naturally I didn't but I'm sure everyone can see the issue here. To be frank business in Morocco is dishonesty incarnate, if these guys know they are listed or heaven forbid learn how to edit the mess they could make would be horrible.

For my piece of mind would someone OK my edit was on the page for ouarzazate? "Hotel Atlas. Rue du Marche no.13 (5-7DM by taxi from CTM) . Convenient location, English and French spoken, WiFi, clean rooms,Hassan can guide dessert tours. (60-90DH singles, 110-160 doubles) PH.0524887745,MOB 0605202817."

I'm also having trouble listing value-added tour operators, as the whole country is a web of kickbacks and touts. Everyone will simply lie to your face or refuse to tell you who is the original operator as it's their whole business to conceal this. It seems other editors are having trouble with this too, and for travelers this is very valuable information.

Welcoming any advice or comment, as always I'll defer to more seasoned editors. --Willthewanderer (talk) 11:35, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Hi Will, thanks for your contributions so far. I'm looking forward to seeing more! Updates from the road are the best kind. It sounds like Moroccan business practices haven't changed since I was last there in 1990. Second-hand info is probably not the best, but a lot of the edits contributors make here are based on internet research, rather than personal visits, which is okay.
I edited your Hotel Atlas entry to make the price and telephone info formatting consistent with our style. You may find it useful to use our listing templates (look for the icons at the top of your edit screen). We're glad to have the information either way. Recent edits are patrolled by regular contributors to deal with issues like touting, and Moroccan articles probably deserve extra attention for that. Have a great trip in Morocco, and keep us posted! Ground Zero (talk) 11:56, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
Are those "dessert tours" or "desert tours"? I'd love to go on a dessert tour, were I not already so overweight. :) K7L (talk) 14:34, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
See The traveller comes first and Wikivoyage:Be fair; you should definitely write what you as a traveler have encountered and experienced, because this is what other travelers reading Wikivoyage will encounter and experience when they go to Morocco. Morocco sadly has more than its fair share of various touts (at least this was my experience in Tangier two years ago), so I wouldn't interview someone selling something (be it hotel rooms, stuffed toy camels or sunglasses) and tell them about Wikivoyage. --ϒpsilon (talk) 10:38, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
Second hand sources can be very useful. If I eat at a restaurant I ask others around me if their food is good. If I am on a tour, I check that others paid the same as me, as I might have paid too much. If the second source is your spouse or fellow travellers, you trust, I would say you can use it. If you ask several people how much they paid for a taxi from the airport and they give similar replys, you could use that. If a location has few Stay entries and you meet someone that stayed a great place there and has the business card, you could at the place to WV. As for tour operators, if they are not original do not list them by name, but write something like: Around X square there are plenty of tour operators that will take you to the desert for Y dirhams. Mayby another traveller will find a better deal and update the listing. Elgaard (talk) 15:10, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
Asking other travelers and customers is of course a whole different thing, and such information probably can be added here. ϒpsilon (talk) 08:38, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

dirham or dirhams[edit]

Which is the correct currency denotion?

Wikivoyage:Currency#Other_currencies says 100 dirham is correct, but the country article starts using dirhams for plural.

So?

Ceever (talk) 23:44, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia uses dirhams, but the correct Arabic plural is darahim. Both dirham and dirhams are pronounced the same in French, so most locals will likely not pronounce dirhams the way an English speaking traveller would expect. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:11, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
So, what you are saying is dirham would be more useful to the traveller? Cheers Ceever (talk) 20:33, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
I'd go with that. It's easier that explaining a silent "s". Ground Zero (talk) 20:36, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
Yes I am, but with the caveat that all the Moroccans I know live in France. If anyone has been to Morocco, feel free to correct me. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 21:22, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
It's been a long time, and I was speaking French, but I always heard dirham. Ground Zero (talk) 21:59, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
OK. Let's go ahead with dirham then. Already corrected most, probably some smaller towns/regions still need correction. Ceever (talk) 23:11, 3 May 2018 (UTC)