User talk:Ground Zero/Archive 2020

An award for you!

	The Wikivoyage Barncompass
	Great job updating the currency exchange rates! Ypsilon (talk) 18:36, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

Reaching out

Hey, sorry for busting your chops, man. I was just knocked off balance with the idea of opera as particularly gay. I'll ask my girlfriend whether that ever occurred to her - it might have because she's worked with so many gay tenors and other gay male singers in opera productions. But anyway, you have my respect. Carry on! Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:30, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

@Ikan Kekek: thank you for this message. I have been very much feeling that this article has been under attack from all sides: those who believe it shouldn't exist, those who think there isn't enough content, and those who want to pick away at the content that is there. The existence of other online guides to LGBT Stockholm really make me wonder why some people believe there isn't room for such a guide in Wikivoyage. And I have wondered why this article is being expected to meet standards not applied to other articles. It has led me to reconsider my role here.

The opera thing is the most tangential thing here, but I have a number of gay friends who are opera queens, so I believe it is of interest to gay travellers.

I would like to see Wikivoyage expand its travel topic guides as that is an area where we differentiate ourselves from guide books and from TripAdvisor. I spent an amazing day in Jewish Prague, and think that would be a great guide. I plan to work on a guide to wine tourism in Ontario. Given the growth in craft brewing, beer guides to cities would be a great addition. Guides on feminist history of cities would be another great addition, but there is so much other work to do. I also want to return to expanding regional pages in Canada when I return home in April, meanwhile I'll be updating Indochina articles as I go.

Thank you again for reaching out. Thus really helps. Ground Zero (talk) 01:35, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

I like the way you're thinking. It's exciting! Sorry I reacted funny. I think we'll get used to this. It's a different way of thinking about travel, and it doesn't have to be as narrowly defined as many of us were thinking about it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:37, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Dagestan Safety

Thank you very much for your quick reply and your warm welcome Ground Zero. Hopefully I am posting this message in the right place

I agree that it makes sense to keep the information on the page that some countries still have issued travel warnings for Dagestan.

May I nevertheless suggest to provide a more factual description of the situation? What is written at the moment...

"Travel to Dagestan is strongly discouraged, due to high criminal activity, frequent bombings, and general lawlessness and crime. Chechen terrorists often target Russians in Dagestan in bombings and other terrorist acts. Salafist extremists (largely foreign) have engaged in violent conflict against native, moderate Sufi groups, in pursuit of the establishment of Sharia law. If you are planning to visit Dagestan, consult your embassy. "

....(fortunately) does not reflect the 2020 situation in Dagestan

You can see [| in this infographic] that violence has dropped drastically over the last 10 years in the whole region. In 2019 to my knowledge another 50% drop compared to 2018 (not yet in the statistics)

May I suggest to keep the warning box but just write?: "Several Governments have issued travel warnings, see below:" And keep the links to the various governments where they are?

The statistics I shared also reflect my personal experience (I am European, but speak Russian quite well by the way) Summer of 2018 I drove with my family for two weeks all over Dagestan as a tourist, first down south through the mountains and then back up north along the Caspian Sea coast (about 1000km trip) At no point I had the feeling that Dagestan was in any way unsafe, quite on the contrary the local population is really happy that there is finally peace again after they had to endured so much turmoil.

I am looking forward to hear your opinion on this.

  Andi

@User:Traveller Andi: telling people that there are warnings and making them go to other websites to find out what they are doesn't seem to be the best way if providing information, does it? The fact is that the governments of the US, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and probably others are advising there citizens not to travel there. Your experience was different, but that doesn't mean that we should hide these warnings from readers. I've never heard of Caucasian Knot, but it looks to be legitimate, although not as authoritative as the foreign affairs departments of numerous countries, so how about we change the first line to read, "The incidence of terrorist violence dropped dramatically through the 2010s, but several governments continue to advise against travel to Dagestan because of...."

By the way, you can sign your posts on talk pages by typing ~~~~. Regards, Ground Zero (talk) 08:04, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

I agree with Ground Zero. If there are equivalents of the FCO in other countries providing advice that is more in line with Andi's experiences, we can mention them as a counterpoint to what the existing government advice says. But otherwise, in a choice between one person's experiences and the situation as described by several countries' intelligence and diplomatic networks, I opt to give more weight to the latter.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:33, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

Comprised of

I agree with this edit, but "comprised of" is perfectly OK. What's not OK is "comprise of". Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:08, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

@Ikan Kekek, Mx. Granger: I stand corrected. Although I think the sentence does read better now. Ground Zero (talk) 08:30, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

It absolutely does! Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:09, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

Travel Topics

I know I'm the last person you want to get a message from, but first, thank you for adding the information to the LGBT Stockholm article. I hope you can see how much less confusing your new description is than "waterfront property" and I think the simple line added to the ABBA listing would have prevented questioning it in the vfd article had it been there before.

I just want to address this comment: "Why do "all of the LGBT article listings need to be related to something LGBT"? Is that a policy? Or just something you've made up?"

As far as I could find, there is no "travel topic policy" of any kind, but travel topics are meant to be (as stated at the very top of Travel topics) "about a specific topic". If the listings are not about or do not relate to the topic then they have no relevance. If they don't even need to relate to the topic, then there's no reason to have any travel topics. Disregarding the the topic breaks the article. If someone started adding all war-related listings to World War II in Europe, it would be seen as vandalism and if allowed to remain would render the article useless as a guide to World War II sites in Europe. If you had added everything from LGBT Toronto to LGBT Stockholm instead of creating the new article, it would have broken the article and rendered it useless, because Toronto's LGBT sites are clearly outside of the bounds of "LGBT Stockholm"'s location bounds, even though they are LGBT. If we add a bunch of Buddhist temples to the Christian Sites in Japan article, it would also lose its relevance and purpose. Each travel topic has its own set of "rules" in what is allowed or not allowed based on the boundaries set by the topic itself. Typically those involve time periods, locations, types of destinations, travel interests, etc.

There is a castle site in Christian sites in Japan (Hara Castle), for example. If the description read, "Castle ruins that offer a great view of the ocean. No structures remain." That sort of description is true, and would not be questioned in the Shimabara article, but for the travel topic "Christian sites in Japan", it would seem irrelevant to the article and worthy of deletion. The listing instead focuses on the castle's relevance to Japan's Christian history. It is highly unlikely that a person who reads its description is going to ask, "Why is this here?" or think "This doesn't belong here." and delete it. The castle is 100% relevant to the topic of Christianity in Japan, but our descriptions have to relate it to the topic so that the readers know what we know.

So yes, listings in travel topics must relate to the topic, whatever the topic may be. If the topic is "LGBT location" then all of the listings need to relate to LGBT within the bounds of the specified location. If it doesn't relate (or the relation is not stated in the description) or is outside the location bounds, then there is justification for the listing to be removed on the grounds that it is unrelated to the topic. If you still feel that this is all nonsense that I have made up and think we need a policy that clarifies that the bounds of a travel topic should be respected and reflected in its listings, feel free to make that proposal, but I think for most people, requiring travel topic listings to relate to the travel topic is Captain Obvious editing. I don't foresee many people supporting the idea that listings in travel topics don't need to have any relevance to the topic. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 04:23, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

@ChubbyWimbus: on the contrary, I am happy to get this message as its tone is respectful and colloborative. I don't disagree that travel topic listings should be connected to the topic, but I don't think it's worth worrying about it if the large majority of the listings are connected, and there are one or two listings that don't have the connection made explicit. Especially if there is no explicit policy on the matter.

This article has been subject to substantially more scrutiny than most articles, and is already at a much higher standard than a lot of the articles we have. So I don't think it is the best use of time to go back in very it again and pick at one or two listings.

I hope you can understand my frustration at having put so much work into the article, and having it scrutinised yet again. I think there are better ways to improve Wikivoyage. Regards, Ground Zero (talk) 06:46, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

Caution/Warning Box Discussion

I was wondering if you could provide some thoughts on how warning boxes and caution boxes should be used with regards to the new coronavirus outbreak. I have started a discussion over at Wikivoyage talk:Template index which appears to be the most logical place to do this. JRHorse (talk) 14:21, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Copying from other projects

Hello GZ. I've seen you expand Wikivoyage articles with content that was copied or adapted from other projects such as Wikipedia, but can't think of any specific pages. Just a quick question: when you credit the source material on the article's talk page, is there a specific template or text box you use, or do you just drop in a sentence? Whatever you do, I want to copy that for Wikivoyage talk:Child protection policy. All the best, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:33, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Use the template {{Wikipedia}}. Also, it's a good idea to copy the URL of the version of the wiki article you are using into the exit summary. For the record, I rarely copy-and-paste -- I usually adapt the text to be appropriate for a travel guide, but still give credit where it is due. Regards, Ground Zero (talk) 20:43, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, mate. There isn't a template {{meta}}, so I guess I'll use an infobox. Good call to link to a version.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 21:56, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

There is also the possibility to use the edit summary: include a permanent link to the article version. I usually extract the oldid number from the permalink and get something like "expanding using [[w:en:Special:Permalink/xxxx|w:en:Article name]]" (clickable also in the history, unlike the external link format). --LPfi (talk) 17:09, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

It's the witching hour 24/7 at the moment.

So there.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 19:40, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Touché! Ground Zero (talk) 19:43, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

The person you texted today

Hello, it's AdamT777 I read your messages and I do my very best to follow them. I am new, so please give me some leeway. Please reply and tell me what I can do to help and how I may improve as I just started two days ago. I'll try not to do any editing until you reply so I don't disturb your work progress. Thanks! —The preceding comment was added by AdamT777 (talk • contribs)

BC regions

Hi Ground Zero, thanks for all the work you've been doing to improve the BC regions (and all of Canada's regions!). That's a lot of work - kudos! Just wanted to let you know that at some point in the future, I'd like to make changes to Thompson-Nicola that would move the North Thompson part of it out... so I don't know if you want to work on that region now if I might change it later. Anything you write that applies to North Thompson I'd move to the new region, so I don't think your time or contributions would be wasted, but just wanted to give you the heads up. Cheers, Shaundd (talk) 06:46, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Much appreciated. There are other things I can work on, so I'll hold off on that for now. I'm also holding off on doing anything on Alberta region articles since the reorg there is ongoing. I'm hoping that discussion will be resolved in a while. I'm also hoping that this virus business will be resolved so that I can drive through these regions in the fall, but there's probably nothing you can do about that. Ground Zero (talk) 11:51, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

On the other hand, Shaun, if you're sitting on the vaccine... *shakes fist* --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 14:46, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Ha ha, I wish! I was hoping to do a trip through the Rockies and Alberta this summer but it probably won't happen now. BC is considering letting hotels, resorts and campgrounds open in June if things continue to improve though, so there might be some tourism infrastructure up and running if you do make it out.

BTW, any changes I propose to BC regions won't impact the Kootenays or the Okanagan so those regions are all clear of me meddling with them. -Shaundd (talk) 15:29, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks

I missed a few of his pages in userspace while deleting them. Thanks for finding those and deleting them. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 00:34, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Man he was busy doing a bunch of stuff no-one will ever see. I'm still finding pages. I'm glad you suggested clearing these out. Ground Zero (talk) 00:36, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

I’m not sure I originally did in the pub, but once it was brought up I thought it ought not simply be forgotten. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 01:02, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

I've posted merge/redirect proposals for a couple of his "articles" — if they can be called articles — at Talk:Al Nabek and Talk:Kaga-Bandoro. I thought you might be interested. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 23:36, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Canada

• Hi GZ. I'm always in awe of your tireless overhauling of Canada as a whole. It's most amusing to watch the progress and sweep the lint and typoes for the greatest final effect. Count on me for this. Referring to my previous little joke of marking Gjoa Haven as Guide, I have reached a point of completeness where it might no longer be a joke. My editor's interest on the place is equally historic, archeological and voyage-wise. By this angle, I most humbly ask you, the Canadian guru and custodian, whether Guide status could be considered, per the present completeness and Guide status of Voyages of John Franklin and Voyages of Roald Amundsen (which is not but will be Guide soon, I promise) which this article ties together. Ibaman (talk) 16:53, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
  • I can take a look at it, but I've been focusing on moving articles from outline to usable, and have not really looked at the requirements for guide status. I am quite glad we have a Gjoa Haven article. It is a great addition to the Canadasphere, and unknown how hard it is to create an article about a small, remote place. Well done! Ground Zero (talk) 17:01, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

oh yes, I really love Wikivoyage. Your clarity was spot-on. Cruises must be listed and available for Gjoa Haven to make Guide. Let's hope to find them. As a bonus, I could outline the article for a crucial and unknown historic location, Friendly Cove on Central Vancouver Island. It was a real pleasure. I hope it can be expanded to Usable eventually. Ibaman (talk) 22:10, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Reference

• Hi dude, I won't dispute the edit on Resolution, I just want to clarify between us that it came from the book Erebus: The Story of a Ship (2018, UK) ISBN 978-1847948120 by Michael Palin, which I have just finished. Very good, short, humorous book crammed full of juicy info. The flight really went from London to Edmonton, then Yellownife, and then Resolution. If it was a private luxury operation, it's not mentioned. Ibaman (talk) 14:41, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

But it's clear that it doesn't operate in 2020. You can check any flights website, like Expedia or Kayak to verify this. In fact, you should do so before adding anecdotal information from a few years ago that is now incorrect. I'm sure it's a good book (Michael Palin is a treasure), but it's not a good source for practical travel information, which is what a travel guide should focus on. History and context are good to have in a travel guide, but if an article doesn't provide information on how to get in and around, what to see and do, and where to eat and sleep, it ends up being just a pale imitation of a Wikipedia article without sources, which isn't any good to anyone. Ground Zero (talk) 16:02, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

I know you would tweak out any inconstancies, I trust your curatorship about the Canadasphere. AND I'm glad to have mentioned this book to you. Ibaman (talk) 16:23, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Still touty

Please read this. I routinely revert listings or blank descriptions like this. It's all a combination of location touting and conflating that particular outfit with the town and surrounding waters as if they and only they own it all. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:45, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

I'm okay with reverting a touty addition of the 12th restaurant in a town, but this is a listing for an activity that we haven't covered yet, so I think that it is worth re-writing instead of deleting. Ground Zero (talk) 18:04, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

Could we move the listing's description to the "understand" section and then keep the rest of the listing where it is? --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 18:06, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

If you like. Go ahead. Ground Zero (talk) 18:09, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

Works for me! Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:21, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

A goat for you!

This is your goat.

Jeatloh (talk) 09:52, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Nova Scotia

Just checking that this was a typo. I assumed it was, but there may be a place called Nova Scoria about which I've never heard. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 14:01, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

By the way, I just noticed this edit. Thanks to your tireless efforts to keep travel information up-to-date, others are doing the same. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 13:28, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Transwiki importer

I mentioned in the pub that perhaps we could have a nomination for transwiki importer. Perhaps, in order to import Wikipedia articles, you would like to have this user right? According to Andre it would need to be nominated in Wikivoyage:Administrator nominations. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 16:47, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

I think that I am not as technically capable in these matters as you are. If you would be willing to do the importing, I would be happy to so the cleanup of the articles. If your not keen, I can put my name forward and try to figure it out. Ground Zero (talk) 16:58, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Well, if you feel that you do not have the technical knowledge, I would accept the position. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 17:24, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

I have one question, however: if I import an article from WP, should I remove the references? We don't have references on Wikivoyage, but what about giving credit for information? --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 22:22, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

No, we don't use references. We give credit the Wikipedia writers who wrote the text. Information is not subject to copyright. If there is a direct quotation from someone or from a published work, we retain the attribution in the text (author's name and or work), but we don't have to provide the rest of the information included in a reference. Ground Zero (talk) 22:27, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

So the page history is enough? --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 22:54, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

An encyclopedia uses references to ensure the credibility of the information, not to provide attribution. A travel guide does not take itself so seriously, so no references are required. When I see things like this, sometimes I wonder if that's a mistake. Ground Zero (talk) 00:39, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

And thanks for helping to resolve the Wikipedia articles issue. I'm going to look for a place (other than our user pages) to post this information. Ground Zero (talk) 00:46, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, good news. I’ll definitely keep up with these WP articles in the future. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 02:07, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Inflate your writing

I've just found a piece of software that you'll love. :D ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:56, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

@ThunderingTyphoons!: Thank you. That is glorious. Now I will spend the rest of the summer figuring out how to get it work in reverse. Ground Zero (talk) 02:22, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

Edit summary

Hey mate, I do think this edit summary, specifically "rambling sentence", is unnecessarily provocative. Perhaps that wasn't your intention, but in my books only people with a disturbed mental state "ramble". You could have just said "long sentence". Regards, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 19:17, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

• Fair point. I should not let myself be annoyed by that editor restoring a grammatical error (at Schleswig-Holstein) and piling a bunch of events into a single sentence while he complains about my copyediting. I'll be more careful with my edit summaries. Ground Zero (talk) 19:23, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Could you cut out the passive aggressive sniping in my direction while using the third person? It'd be a shame if the conflict you seem to insist on escalated to such a level that one or both of us had to be removed for the good of the wiki. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:26, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

By the way, the word "rambling" was used here as well. It seems that sadly there seem to be different approaches as to which style a sentence needs to be written in... My first goal is of course always accuracy, but maybe others have other priorities. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:28, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

@Hobbitschuster: I apologize for using the phrase "rambling sentences". I will stop doing that. I do not want to escalate our dispute. But I ask you not to be aggrieved if I re-write long sentences in order to improve readability. I do not do so to aggravate you, but to make Wikivoyage more enjoyable to read. Ground Zero (talk) 19:31, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

If you could both commit to using neutral edit summaries that dispassionately describe what you change, that might go a long way to avoid further escalation. Best wishes, friends.ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 19:45, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I will commit to that, and I regret stirring things up today. Ground Zero (talk) 19:47, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

I’m not sure the arguments (within the article, regarding public transit vs. Uber and Lyft) are relevant at all, IMHO. Saying ride hailing services contribute to traffic congestion is good enough, without getting into the details of who opposes or supports which mode of transportation.

With regard to some text that has now been completely removed (a good thing), the urban/rural political divide in the U.S. is strong. See this article or take a look at a map of the U.S. House seats by party. Gerrymandering obscures the facts, but if you look closely you’ll see that small districts (small due to high density population) are usually blue while large rural ones are red. There are a few exceptions in the rural South and gerrymandered districts but generally urban/rural is the divide. (And the divide becomes stronger every election.) But political commentary aside, the text about politics and public transit has been removed entirely, as which political party is in control of an area is largely irrelevant to the traveler, unless you’re in a solid Democrat or solid Republican state. --Comment by Selfie City (talk | contributions) 21:33, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

I think further improvements can be made, and have made some suggestions here. Ground Zero (talk) 21:42, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Vandal alert

As you're the only admin online right now: Special:Contributions/Rightitsonthan

"The pub is closed"-vandal's 10000 incarnation, I think --Ypsilon (talk) 19:54, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Ikan took care of them, ignore the above. --Ypsilon (talk) 20:00, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

@Ypsilon: This is why it would be great if you were an admin. I've lost count of the number of times you've had to message one of us because you've spotted vandalism when no-one else has, but you can't do anything about it. Becoming an admin requires no extra work or time commitment, you don't have to suddenly be on recent change patrol all the time, and you're guaranteed to get unanimous support in a nomination. It really would help us if you were able and willing to use the necessary buttons when there's no-one else around. I understand you've turned down the offer on a number of occasion, but please think about it again before you answer.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:17, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Actually I must say I don't have as much interest in Wikivoyage as I used to, so admin tools wouldn't make much difference (also I found the rollback feature rather annoying, made more accidental rollbacks than actually useful ones). I'm going to ignore vandals in the future. --Ypsilon (talk) 20:34, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Weston-super-Mare

Hi, I saw you deleted some of the missing listings I added to the Weston-super-Mare article, albeit without justification or comment. This is obviously not very constructive. 87.74.178.74 19:21, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

I posted a note on the article's talk page indicating that I was restoring a bunch is cleanup edits that I had done that you had reverted. It took me too long to do them to be willing to do them again. I expect that we were editing at the same time. This sometimes happens. I was not trying to delete your work. I won't make any more edits until I see that you have finished with the article to avoid this happening again. Ground Zero (talk) 19:26, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Nahanni National Park Reserve

Can you double check the Sleep section? I don't understand what you meant when you added "There is no limit dying in the park" OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 06:52, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for catching that. I've fixed it. Ground Zero (talk) 11:25, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 19:35, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Update request for Hagia Sophia and Chora

Hello.

Can you rewrite and update the status of Hagia Sophia and Chora, after they were converted into mosques, in any article they appear in Wikivoyage? After their conversion, i.e. after their museum status were dropped and reopened as mosques, no entrance fee is charged anymore. However, as they are now mosques, a strict dress code has been introduced to every visitor, whether they are tourists or worshippers. Veils are compulsory for females, and entering them in miniskirts, shorts (for both genders) and sleeveless shirts (for both genders) are now banned, like in any other mosque. However, as they are tourist attractions, just like the Blue Mosque, veils and sarong-like clothes will be sold or issued. During prayer time, just as it is the case in the Blue Mosque, tourists will not be allowed to enter and all the Christian frescoes and symbols are covered. See also news sources for the latest information.

Yours sincerely, an IP from Turkey 31.200.20.245 17:51, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Wikivoyage is the travel guide that you can edit. You don't have to ask someone else to do it, just press "edit" at the top of the article, make your changes, and press "Publish changes" at the bottom of the screen when you are finished. Ground Zero (talk) 18:13, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for your recommendation. I thought as an administrator you might do it, because the Hagia Sophia and Chora sections in the Istanbul article are quite intertwined with now outdated information, which a simple edit will not be enough. Do sources need to be added for the latest updates (just like in Wikipedia for example)? 31.200.20.245 19:12, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

No, Wikivoyage does not require sources. The only time that comes up is if someone questions an edit in a discussion on a talk page, then you might include sources in the discussion (but not in the article). Administrators are volunteers -- we don't get paid for this. We're just here to help fix things when they go wrong. I will keep an eye on those articles, so don't worry if you make mistakes. I will fix them. Thank you. Ground Zero (talk) 19:26, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for checking it. I only made little changes in the Istanbul article about the status of these two former church-museums. Please check them, and if necessary correct and/or improve them. However, when I visit the Istanbul/Sultanahmet-Old City article, where the main updates are required, the internet freezes. I could not even open it. Unfortunately, the internet in Turkey is often slowed down delibaretly by the government, and has been the case the last two days, which makes surfing the web a frustrating experience, and editing very difficult. I will visit and try again later. 31.200.15.225 20:30, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

I hope the economic, and as important, that the political situation improves too, in the (hopefully) not so distant future. But it will be a long and hard process, especially with the addition of the Covid-19 pandemic. When I press the edit button or even visit a page, it continues to freeze, because the internet is still painfully slow. So unfortunately, is still cannot edit and update these topics. 31.200.9.207 09:34, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

• I have updated the listings, to the best of my knowledge. Please, o Turkish anonymous IP, update us on whether there is any touristic interest left about visiting Chora Church with the mosaics covered. I have read elsewhere that the Fethye Museum status has changed as well, please update us on that too. I'm fond of archaeological tourism generally, and Byzantine art in particular, and received these news with a heavy heart; I reckon I ought to be glad to have visited while it was still a museum. Ibaman (talk) 20:35, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello.

I have replied in your talk page.

Yours sincerely, IP from Turkey 31.200.15.225 00:20, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

Milli Vanilli?

Just curious, do you know how a vandalized Wikipedia article has ended up in your userspace with no trace of it being moved there? (also see User talk:Ground Zero/Milli Vanilli) --Ypsilon (talk) 18:06, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

@Ypsilon: This is indeed weird. I have no idea. And fitting that someone is pretending to be me to write about Milli Vanilli. Undoubtedly someone is who is better looking and can dance better than me. Is there any reason for me not to delete it? (Thanks for bringing it to my attention.) Ground Zero (talk) 18:50, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

I don't know how the Wiki software works but (or because of that?) I do think it's alarming that random stuff can just emerge into someone's user space. It should probably brought up in the pub and/or at the talk page of someone who knows technical stuff (User:WOSlinker, User:Matroc, User:Wrh2, User:Andree.sk..?) Ypsilon (talk) 19:10, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

One of the strangest things I've seen in the wikiverse in some time. Nothing at Special:Log/import that I can see. If the users pinged above don't know the answer, I suggest we ask at a Wikipedia noticeboard, maybe w:Wikipedia:Village pump (technical). —Granger (talk · contribs) 19:22, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

I'd think Special:Import could be used to do something like this, but this is a privileged operation - and if even the admins even have the permissions, I guess they would remember such specific operation as exporting some obscure band wiki article and then trying to import it in WV :) Another option is a mediawiki bug... Perhaps mediawiki has some advanced page info for the admins, which could reveal the page origin? Curious stuff in any case... -- andree.sk(talk) 20:15, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

I have asked the question. Thanks to Granger for the suggestion. Ground Zero (talk) 20:23, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

I took a quick look and don't see any obvious reason why that page would have suddenly appeared, so if folks at the Wikipedia Village Pump don't have an answer then someone with access to internal logs might need to see if something on the server-side went awry. That said, in a complex ecosystem like the Mediawiki server farm these sorts of odd occurrences will happen occasionally; it's probably not something to be too concerned about. -- Ryan • (talk) • 23:01, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for mentoring Wikivoyage workshop

Dear Ground Zero thanks for having you as a mentor for the wikivoyage workshop dated 29 August. It was great having you onboard. Can you please share your feedback on the page Looking forward to more such wikivoyage activities. --Rangan Datta Wiki (talk) 17:38, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Recent changes

Hiya. When you're on recent changes patrol, can I ask that you make use of the [mark as patrolled] button to edits you're fixing? It's a simple thing, but it just gets rid of the little red exclamation mark so edits that have already been patrolled don't look like they still need attention. All the best, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:23, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

I never really knew what that was about. I'll start doing that. Ground Zero (talk) 12:25, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

@ThunderingTyphoons!: Okay, so I've gone looking for the [mark as patrolled] button, and I don't see it. Am I missing something? Ground Zero (talk) 12:38, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Also, I don't see the red exclamation mark in my watchlist. Ground Zero (talk) 12:41, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Hmm, really? For those of us who are patrollers and above, it should be on the diff of every unpatrolled edit, under the username and edit summary, but above the text difference. Can you see it here, for example? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:42, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

I just noticed you weren't a patroller before so have just made you one. Do you see the exclamation mark now in recent changes? Have you ever seen it? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:44, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

@ThunderingTyphoons!: Still not showing up. I've tried changing the filter settings, but still nothing. Ground Zero (talk) 12:54, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Well as you know, I'm as far from expert as it's possible to be on technical matters, but I do know that sometimes settings like this take a while to take effect. If nothing's changed in 24 hours (possibly because what I did wouldn't have changed anything anyway), it might be worth raising as an issue as the patrol tools are very handy and definitely something you should have access to.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:57, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

• wow man! This is mind-blowing stuff, to realize GZ was never a patroller, never saw the [mark as patrolled] button or the red exclamation marks. Extremely surprising. I thought all admins were patrollers by default. Ibaman (talk) 13:03, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

I tried shutting down my browser to see if that would do anything. It didn't. I'll look again tomorrow. Thanks for your assistance on this. Ground Zero (talk) 13:04, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

You're welcome. And as user:Ibaman said, it's a really quite unimaginable way of looking at the world. Like colourblindness, or being unable to taste the Earth's natural sparkle.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:41, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Per Special:ListGroupRights, administrators should be able to mark other users' edits as patrolled. In other words, once a user is an administrator, it's redundant to make them a patroller too, so this is probably not a user rights issue.

Ground Zero, if you follow this link while logged in on desktop mode, all of the edits listed should have red exclamation marks. On mobile it seems to be thin black exclamation marks. Try logging in on a different browser and see if that helps. Any luck? —Granger (talk · contribs) 16:40, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

It now seems to be working in Chrome on my tablet, with red !. I usually use Ecosia, and the ! don't appear there. I will try to remember to use Chrome for Wikivoyage so I can patrol, now that I have been granted admittance to the wonderous, sparkling, colourful world. Thanks for helping. Ground Zero (talk) 22:03, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Welcome. Now for the Initiation ceremony. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 07:27, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

• hey dude, please use the features, caught you not marking as patrolled again... hitting the button makes the whole team's lives easier. Please please pay attention to this procedure. By the way, I must say I kinda miss the "Voyages and Exploration" editing rush, we should play ball again in that vibe, for the benefit of Wikivoyage. Good vibes to ya Ibaman (talk) 04:16, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

@Ibaman: its going to take me some time to get used to these new and mighty powers. And I am afraid of ThunderingTyphoons!' initiation ceremony as I have a low tolerance for pain.

I'm working on a project now to to improve articles on Spanish destinations using text from Wikipedia (and sometimes Spanish and Catalan Wikipedia in translation) as pictures from the commons. I see that you have followed up my edits on some articles by adding more content-- thanks. This is a quick way to significantly improve our coverage of smaller cities and towns. Any help you'd like to contribute on that would be appreciated.

I'll be without wifi for the next week, so I probably won't be contributing much during that time. Ground Zero (talk) 16:53, 26 September 2020 (UTC) Ground Zero (talk) 16:50, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

• Hello again dude, it's great to see you back to full heavy contribution mode! High-five to you here. Ibaman (talk) 13:04, 17 October 2020 (UTC)
  • @Ibaman: Tudo bem? Monday I leave for a week away from WiFi, so you won't see me around much. But I'll be back. It's good to hear from you. Ground Zero (talk) 03:07, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

T is Tu or Th

• I may be responsible for trimming these excessively, and sorry for it, but consulting the articles' histories, sorting them will be easier. I need to reread WV:tdf daily, to not forget the gist, really. haha Ibaman (talk) 11:59, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Thank You

Thanks so much for helping me! This made editing here for the first time so much easier! --Thegooduser (talk) 22:24, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

@Thegooduser: I'm glad I was able to help. Don't worry about making mistakes. Wikivoyagers are generally very tolerant of mistakes, especially by new users. I came to Wikivoyage from Wikipedia because I feel that I can make a bigger contribution to getting a project off the ground, whereas Wikipedia is now very well established. I hope you choose to spend your time with us building a free travel guide. Regards, Ground Zero (talk) 13:54, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

I used to edit the English Wikipedia, but it got to big and overwhelming, so I went to Simple English Wikipedia instead, and now I am starting to edit here! Is there a simple english Wikivoyage by any chance? --Thegooduser (talk) 00:24, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

@Thegooduser: No, there's no Simple English Wikivoyage. There's still a lot of work to do building the regular English version. It is important for us to recognize that, as the most comprehensive version of Wikivoyage, we likely have a lot of readers for whom English is a foreign language. We are fortunate to have several regular contributors who are not native English-speakers but who choose to contribute here. Ground Zero (talk) 02:31, 17 November 2020 (UTC)