Talk:Boston

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West End[edit]

Okay, can anyone familiar with Boston tell me what district article covers the West End? The area bounded by the Charles River, I-93/US 1, Cambridge Street, and Market Street? Specifically, which district article should contain TD Garden? LtPowers (talk) 00:54, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

TD Garden should be contained in North End. sumone10154(talk) 00:54, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
Many thanks! Powers (talk) 14:31, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Recent Update[edit]

Hey all, just did a big update to the main page. I think the whole section looks quite dated and could really use some cleanup. Let me know what you think, and I'll keep going if you like it. I love making maps and organizing things, but I'm a bit crap at writing, so if anyone can help out that would be amazing! —The preceding comment was added by ButteBag (talkcontribs)

The new map looks great! At first I was concerned that you had changed the district layout (something that usually requires discussion per Wikivoyage:Geographical hierarchy#Districts in cities), but after a bit of review it looks your map just presents what is already in place in the Boston district articles. One minor point - try to avoid first person pronouns like "our sports teams". Aside from that I'd encourage you to continue - good job so far! -- Ryan • (talk) • 04:55, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
There appears to be some duplication in the new organization. For example, the regionlist on this article implies that districts like Boston/Back Bay are part of Boston/Downtown, but if that's the case, Boston/Downtown shouldn't have its own article -- it would only serve to duplicate the content in its subsidiary districts. Then there's Boston/Hyde Park, which redirects to Boston/Dorchester, even though they're listed separately in the regionslist. Powers (talk) 21:07, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, Boston is a tricky one. Thank you for bringing up the Hyde Park page. I was thinking of doing something like the way it is now? IDK, what do you think? ButteBag (talk) 03:18, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
I daresay it's worse now, as the Dorchester page still claims to incorporate Hyde Park. Powers (talk) 13:27, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
Hi, ButteBag. I also want to point out that you are not allowed to copy text from copyrighted websites. I removed the majority of the text you put at Boston/Hyde Park because it was all copyright violations from 3 websites and a book. Texugo (talk) 13:42, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Boylston Chess Club[edit]

could someone add this iam having a hard time. --Sourn2029 (talk) 15:24, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Yet another districts discussion[edit]

Boston's districts are a bit confusing, and I know the city fairly well. It looks like it was decided that it couldn't have more than 9 and neighborhoods were mashed together to get the numbers down and a lot of the sub-districts are redirects. I think Boston should be handled like Manhattan or Chicago, where there are way more than 9 districts, but they are organized into larger categories that don't have their own article, like midtown for Manhattan. Another option would be to use San Francisco's model and just list all the districts(in SF's case, 15).

An example of the confusion I'm talking about is Fenway, which has a completely separate article from Boston/South End (which it should), but the main Boston article implies that South End is a subsection of Fenway. These are very different neighborhoods of roughly equal size and this should probably be reflected in the district scheme. Does anyone else have an appetite to help me take this on? I have a good knowledge of the city since I live nearby, but can't claim to be an expert.Godsendlemiwinks (talk) 22:27, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

There does seam to be a lot of districts, if nothing else a map of the districts for downtown is needed. I have only visited the area once (really liked the city) and find it a little confusing the way the downtown districts are separated and sometimes re-linked back. Would suggest either merging the downtown districts or maybe adding a couple of the more interesting ones to the main Boston list of districts and map.Current set up does not help a visitor who is not familiar with the city.--Traveler100 (talk) 06:22, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
I was thinking of combining Bay Village and Chinatown since they're both very small and right next to each other. I think the Financial District article should be merged with Downtown since its the least interesting central neighborhood and most people think of it as "downtown" anyway. I'm not sure what to call the parent category. I've never considered the North End or Beacon Hill to be "downtown" despite their proximity to the city center and it would be odd to have an article called "downtown" in a parent category with the same name. Central Boston maybe?Godsendlemiwinks (talk) 22:34, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I was thinking about this too. I feel like the main Boston article and its subsections could use a little TLC. Here's my shot at it, feel free to edit this until it gets to a point where people are liking it. I can make maps of the top level areas if we're in agreement. Imagine all the top level items being their own color on the map, and second level items would be a hue of that color. Italic items would link into a subsection of the parent article until they have enough meat to stand on their own. (eg.. boston/downtown#bay-village, as opposed to boston/downtown/north-end) Bundling neighborhoods under other neighborhoods feels weird to me, but it's the best I can think of.

With this scheme we have 10 map colors and 14 district pages. I think another page for the freedom trail might be a cool idea? ButteBag (talk) 00:00, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

  • Downtown
    • Financial District
    • West End
    • Bay Village
    • Beacon Hill
    • North End
    • Chinatown
  • Back Bay
  • Fenway
    • Mission Hill
  • South End
  • Charlestown
  • South Boston
    • Waterfront
    • Harbor Islands
  • East Boston
  • Allston/Brighton
  • Dorchester
    • Roxbury
    • Mattapan
  • Jamaica Plain
    • Hyde Park
    • Roslindale
    • West Roxbury

Update[edit]

The above discussion went dormant, but no one ever expressed any opposition to the above proposal. Recently Boston/Financial District was merged to Boston/Downtown, and several weeks later that change was reverted with the comment "rv redirect unsupported by consensus". I don't know the area well enough to know what makes sense here, but I reverted the revert based on the fact that there were a few people who made a case for merging districts, and no one opposed that proposal. -- Ryan • (talk) • 06:41, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Without knowing much about the city, I do have to say that the proposal seems to violate policy, in that some of the districts will be only partially subdivided. We generally frown on partial subdivisions at any level of the hierarchy, but especially at the district level (where this two-level structure is already very unusual), it seems like it could be very confusing. Powers (talk) 18:13, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
Cool, thank you for the feedback Powers! Maybe we should do what you say and ignore the whole sub-sub neighborhood aspect. Maybe I should build a map similar to this one? Boston Neighborhoods Everyone argues about what a neighborhood is here, but this image is from the city website, so it would seem to be a good start. I could also tint the bigger sub-neighborhoods the way they do on the Chicago page. We would have to rewrite / split up some of the articles a bit, but as long as there is a clear goal to work towards I think people will pitch in. Does anyone think it would be a big deal if a few sections are almost empty while others have oceans of content? --ButteBag (talk) 20:10, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
Yes, that - and especially the almost empty articles - would not be good. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:37, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
Ok, so which of the two ideas is the lesser of two evils then? Thank you for your feedback, but your comment does not offer a solution. If we use the map from the city of Boston linked above we'd:
The three new pages plus the Roxbury and Hyde Park pages will be pretty empty at first.
The new combined "Central" or "Downtown" page would have a lot of content. Maybe we could move all the Freedom Trail content to it's own district? That breaks the rules a bit, but would be quite helpful from a visitor's point of view.
In general I like this direction, it feels a lot more cohesive than what we have currently. The uneven amounts of content would be the biggest drawback at first, but with a clear plan I think people will start adding things if they feel like there is a place for them to go.
--ButteBag (talk) 22:05, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
I like Boston but don't know the city well enough to have an opinion on what the best way is to district it for the purposes of Wikivoyage readers/travelers, so I can only caution you that having nearly empty articles about a district of a city is bad. What two "evils" are you alluding to? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:24, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
Yes, thank you! I need a lot of advice! Empty articles is one "evil", and the other is what Powers was mentioning; having a confusing hierarchy of district articles. --ButteBag (talk) 23:58, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
If I may, Ikan, it's bound to happen that a new district article is going to be empty at first. Why is that a problem? Powers (talk) 00:34, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
I take your point. It's not a problem if there is enough potential content for the new district article. It is a problem if it remains empty for an extended period (e.g., years). Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:41, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
We could make a district called "Periphery" or "Outlying Districts" or something to that effect. It could contain Roslindale, Mattapan, Hyde Park, and West Roxbury? It would work on the map, and very few people visit these areas of Boston. Once there is enough content they could break out into their own district page? Ultimately, Powers' idea is the clearest. I think some sections will have more content and some will have less. --ButteBag (talk) 14:46, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
Hello! I gave it a shot. Here is what it would look like with the four low content districts merged as one. I really can't decide to go with this or have four empty-ish district pages. These neighborhoods aren't super related for people who live here. But for visitors they are all far from the center and don't have the best transit connections as some of the other neighborhoods.
Boston neighborhoods
That seems very reasonable. Powers (talk) 21:27, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

OK, I added the Outer Neighborhoods section, and updated the map on the main page. I think we need to merge a few articles and of course add a bunch more content!

--ButteBag (talk) 14:51, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

Sorry for starting this and then going awol. This is much more useful than the previous iteration. Thanks to all that contributed.Godsendlemiwinks (talk) 22:41, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
Thank you! Yeah it feels like this version of the map is the most successful by far. Thanks again! --ButteBag (talk) 02:36, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Rideshare section heading[edit]

https://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Boston&oldid=prev&diff=3035293

I think the section heading should be generic; we don't know what other ridesharing options might develop in the future, and specifying Uber and Lyft in the heading could be seen as promotional. We don't do this for any other section in "Get Around". We don't say "By MBTA"; we say "By public transit". Powers (talk) 13:20, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

Agree! --ButteBag (talk) 02:36, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Housekeeping, Odd Questions[edit]

  1. Hello! Is it possible to archive any of this page? Like anything before the "Pronunciation of Faneuil" post for example is pretty old.
  2. Does anyone have time to critique the updates I've been making to the Boston/Dorchester page? Writing is not my strong suit, ha. Any things I am doing good or bad would be great to hear. I'm trying to get some better photos right now. Is it better or worse than some of the other district pages?
  3. I'm thinking about making some updates to the main Boston page and the other districts. Looks like some museum content is duplicated on the district pages, and that big list of colleges should probably go. I was thinking of making a Freedom Trail itinerary page, but that could create more duplication! For example, where should the "Old North Church" go? Main page? North End page? The new itinerary page? All three? My idea was to have the bulk of the info (phone number, hours, etc) on the itinerary page, and have a linked "freedom trail" paragraph on district pages to briefly describe the parts of the trail in that district. Or maybe an itinerary is not needed at all if the information is better organized? Just kind of rambling here, but if there are any resources you could point me to, on tips to avoid duplication in large city articles that would be very appreciated. Thank you! --ButteBag (talk) 02:36, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Also: If I were to merge the Back Bay and Beacon Hill articles... should I copy content from one into the other? Or create a new Back Bay/Beacon Hill page? The latter makes more sense to me, because it would tie in with the district map better. But I am not sure what the protocol is in this situation.

I'll handle the Freedom Trail question: I don't think it's a problem to duplicate information between a Freedom Trail article and district articles, and I think a Freedom Trail itinerary article is a great idea! Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:27, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
Thanks! Yeah, the city reps the freedom trail pretty hard to visitors, so having something here to reflect that is a good idea.

To-Do's[edit]

Hello! I've been adding maps and boundaries to the district sections of Boston. Hopefully this will start to clarify what goes where, and help to reduce duplicate content in some areas. I'm sure there will be some disagreement about where the lines are, but you have to draw them somewhere dude. Anyway here is a list of what I think needs doing. Maybe we can keep updating this list as people make changes? If only in spirit, lol. Generally, a lot of listings are missing hours, phone numbers, lat/long, etc. And some listings should move from one district to another, as the dividing lines have become less fuzzy. --ButteBag (talk) 21:40, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Updating list. In general these articles really need help with blurb listings. Especially in the Eat, Drink, and Sleep sections. Everything also needs major copy editing. Most sections need better pictures and banners, I'm hoping to add them when the weather improves. I'd also like to add a few infoboxes with local lore here and there. --ButteBag (talk) 21:15, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Lede[edit]

Per policy, the lede needs to place the destination in geographical context. In practice, that means we need to link at least Massachusetts and possibly Greater Boston as well. Powers (talk) 00:37, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

Massachusetts certainly, but reminding users that Boston is part of Greater Boston strikes me as Captain Obvious. For those who feel the pressing need to know what's above Boston in the regions hierarchy, the breadcrumb trail is spelled out at the top of every page. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 00:45, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
I agree, saying that X is part of greater X is beyond obvious. Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:47, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
I agree, too. "New York City is part of the New York City Metropolitan Area". Duh. :-) Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:51, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
Yarg, policy strikes again. I was assuming the breadcrumb links not 80 pixels away would be enough. Fair enough tho, I see the point. I like a lot of the edits made to the lede so far thank you! I will probably tweak it just a bit further. I noticed one factual inaccuracy and maybe a clunky spot or two. Do you mind if I have a go @andre? Thanks all! --ButteBag (talk) 15:28, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
Breadcrumbs are helpful, but we can't count on them following our text wherever it might be re-used. The text needs to be complete by itself and not rely on any specific site's navigation mechanisms. Powers (talk) 01:11, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
Also, just for giggles, is there a link to where the policy states: the lede needs to place the destination in geographical context? Not that I'm arguing. --ButteBag (talk) 15:42, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
Ok, done. AndreCarrotflower I hope I didn't step on your toes too much, most of my edits turned out to be pretty pedantic. I took your point about how people probably won't know about the Tea Party, and I loved "shipload"! Powers, is it cool that Massachusetts is linked in the 3rd paragraph now and not the first? Seems to flow better this way. (To me). Thank you! --ButteBag (talk) 16:09, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
Your edits look great to me. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 16:36, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

w:Banned in Boston[edit]

I'm wondering if this is a better phenomenon to name-drop in the lede to reference the "distinct mix of puritanical ideals", rather than public schools. My first inclination was to add it in, but I think it would be better to defer to ButteBag's expertise on the matter. What say you? -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 16:42, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

I've never really heard of this actually, cool! I'm just one voice, but I would guess more people have heard of Puritans then the "Banned in Boston" movement. The weird Catholic stuff is why I put the word parochial in there if that helps at all. --ButteBag (talk) 16:51, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

To Guide status and DotM[edit]

First off, I want to once again call out ButteBag's superlative work on the Boston district articles. ButteBag, under your stewardship Boston is rapidly moving to take its place next to Chicago, Washington DC, and San Francisco on the list of Wikivoyage's best-covered cities (I'll leave Buffalo for someone else to judge).

One of the reasons I've had my eye on the development of the Boston articles is that I think it would make a fantastic Destination of the Month. Of course, for a place to be eligible to be featured as DotM it has to have attained Guide status or better - and, in turn, for a districtified city like Boston to attain Guide status, all the district articles must be at least at Usable status (among other requirements, all of which the article currently fulfills).

I've just finished surveying the district articles again, and it appears that there is actually very little work necessary to bring the last two Outline-level Boston districts - Boston/Outer Neighborhoods and Boston/East Boston - up to Usable status. All that's required is to find a hotel to put into Boston/Outer Neighborhoods#Sleep and to listingify the prose descriptions of attractions in Boston/East Boston#See. I imagine this is something that could be done in the space of an hour or less.

Again, ButteBag: keep up the good work on all the district articles, but if you could make some time to attend to those two tasks in particular, we could then elevate Boston to Guide status and officially nominate it for DotM. Please note that Boston's DotM stint will likely have to wait until 2018, so don't worry if you'd prefer to have the district articles in better shape before it goes live on the Main Page: you'll have ample time for further improvements between now and then.

-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 03:41, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for your feedback and warm words Andre, that is very kind of you! To be honest with you, I still don't truly understand how articles are given a certain designation. It looks like the Allston article is a guide now, but in my mind it is missing something like 50-70% of the content. The main Back Bay/Beacon Hill and Downtown articles are disasters. Charlestown is also quite poor. The North End is unresolved and the Freedom Trail itinerary still needs lots of work. I wouldn't want to put something in front of someone, when it is so clearly (to me) unfinished. I have also been shocked at the lack of images for the main tourist sites here! I'd love to take some snaps once the weather improves. ALSO Cambridge/Somerville need to be improved as they are basically districts of Boston to travellers. Thank you again for your kind words! --ButteBag (talk) 15:39, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

Logan Airport[edit]

While I'm thinking of it, does Logan Airport meet the requirements for having it's own "Big Airport" page? I think there are one or two hotels on the premises, and of course a bunch of food options throughout the various terminals. I don't have time to put it together now, but just wondering for the future. I'm sure there are many New England towns that use Logan as the "by air" portion of "get in". Thanks! --ButteBag (talk) 16:43, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

According to Wikivoyage:Airport Expedition, you've already answered one of the two questions that go to determining whether an airport should get its own article (whether there are enough "Buy", "Eat", and "Drink" listings to fill out their respective sections). The other question is whether the airport handles connecting flights. I've had connections at Logan myself from time to time, so clearly yes, Logan is a valid candidate for its own article. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 16:48, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

A (very) minor redistricting[edit]

Hello! This maybe doesn't even count as a redistricting, but wanted to get a consensus to be sure. I thought of a few minor points I think could help.

  • #1: I think the 15 or so listings in the Downtown article that are in the West End should move into the North End article. It makes sense from a geographic point of view, and will provide a better balance of content between the two articles. I guess we'd also rename it to Boston/North_End-West_End.
  • #2: I'd also like to update the map at Boston#Districts. I'd create a new region, "Inner Neighborhoods". Then for the region items, add back the links for Jamaica Plain, Mission Hill, Dorchester, and Roxbury. No articles would be created or merged. It would be almost identical to how the "Central" region is working now. This makes sense from the travelers point of view, as these are mostly residential neighborhoods, and (I'm guessing) less important for many visitors. It would also reduce the region count by two, which would be nice.
  • #3: On the fence about this one, but we could also add a "Not Boston" region to Boston#Districts? Another unlinked one with Cambridge, Somerville, and Brookline as region items? It's irritating, because these are not part of Boston, but from a travelers point of view they are. Cambridge in particular is well connected and often touristed. If not we can leave as is.

Thanks! --ButteBag (talk) 21:35, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Gut feeling: Cities like Cambridge and Somerville have their own identity and are part of Greater Boston, but not Boston. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:50, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
Yeah, it could go either way for me. Cambridge feels "more Boston" to me than Hyde Park, but I'm sure that statement is inflammatory to someone else. What do you think about the way the district section is now? --ButteBag (talk) 23:43, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
I doubt that I should express an opinion about that, as I'm only an occasional visitor to Boston and don't know the entire city, only the parts I've visited. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:53, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
Ha, well at least someone is looking at how Boston is districted! Anyway, I'll probably do #1 since it doesn't seem that controversial. I'll maybe do #2 later if more opinions are expressed. And I guess #3 will keep working the way it is now. Thanks! --ButteBag (talk) 17:21, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Your copyright is being infringed[edit]

Please see Wikivoyage_talk:Non-compliant_redistribution#Tourist_Inspiration for details, but in short there is content on Boston/Downtown, and most likely the city's other district articles, that has been republished elsewhere without observing the terms of our CC Licence. Your input on what we should do next is requested on the talk page of Wikivoyage:Non-compliant redistribution. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:45, 1 November 2017 (UTC)