Talk:United States of America

From Wikivoyage
Jump to navigation Jump to search

This is not a political forum; please restrict all discussion here to discussion about how best to improve the United States of America article. Off topic debates, political rants, nonsense poetry, etc. will all be removed as it is added. This is a travel guide and political disputes are utterly irrelevant except insofar as they directly bear upon the experience of a traveller. See Wikivoyage:Be fair#Political disputes for further guidelines.


Archived discussions

Formatting and language conventions

For articles about the United States, please use the 12-hour clock to show times, e.g. 9AM-noon and 6PM-midnight.

Please show prices in this format: $100, and not USD 100, 100 dollars or US$100.

Please use American spelling.

Update Warning Box[edit]

After the Capitol attack on January 6, 2021, should we add that to the warning box? CatDog1234539 (talk) 16:16, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

I don't think we need to. What happened yesterday seems to confirm that the warning box is accurate, but in terms of advice for travelers, I'm not sure anything else needs to be said beyond what's already there. —Granger (talk · contribs) 17:04, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
@Mx. Granger:Ok. CatDog1234539 (talk) 17:11, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
There is a warning box on Washington, DC. We don't put warnings about local or regional events in a national article. Ground Zero (talk) 18:46, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
According to national media here in the US, there is online chatter taking place about more incidents of political extremism potentially in the works in the capitals of all the states on Jan 17 (under the theme of gun rallies) and then in DC on Jan 20 (e.g. https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-far-right-is-already-scheming-for-a-post-riot-sequel and https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1253546) Maybe we should say something to the effect of being careful about traveling to these places on these days? Maybe it is fearmongering, but as a US citizen I can say for me it is kind of scary, and I don't think I would want to be a foreign tourist and caught up in the middle of it. Lazarus1255 (talk) 02:17, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
I'd support such a warning. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:30, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
Okay, I guess someone got it in there. Thanks.Lazarus1255 (talk) 16:52, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Associated Press[edit]

Shouldn't we mention something about it since it's probably considered the most authoritative and unbiased source of hard news in the U.S.? The dog2 (talk) 19:37, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

Considered by whom? I've lived in the U.S. my whole life and have more than a passing familiarity with the workings of the news media, and I can attest that while the AP certainly is authoritative and unbiased, it's not the only American news source that can be described as such, nor is it widely singled out and renowned by the general public as being the most authoritative and unbiased. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 19:43, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
It's completely unimportant for visitors to the U.S. to know about AP or UPI. Few ordinary Americans are familiar with them, and if any visitor to the U.S. reads a newspaper, they're likely to see stories from those agencies, anyway. I actually think the entire section on the media isn't really necessary, but the New York Times and Washington Post and the TV networks are a hell of a lot more widely known than news agencies. But by the way, since this section is coming up, why is PBS described as "taxpayer-subsidized public broadcasting" instead of "public broadcasting subsidized by contributors"? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:04, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
Also, I don't think it's reasonable to consider the New York Daily News' news coverage particularly biased and not "reasonably balanced". Why are we making that claim? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:06, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
I was always under impression that the news agencies that are regarded as the most authoritative and unbiased in the world are AP (based in the U.S.), Reuters (based in the U.K.) and AFP (based in France). But yeah, I realise that many newspapers just publish news sources from one of these agencies. The dog2 (talk) 20:52, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
Did anyone say UPI was more biased than AP? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:57, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
No. I didn't mention UPI just because they seem to be rather niche. I don't see as many stories from them in other news sites compared to the "Big Three". The dog2 (talk) 21:13, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
This obviously contentious and clearly not needed in a travel guide. Ground Zero (talk) 22:12, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
I don't think it's very contentious, just rather trivial for non-journalists. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:06, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
However, I still want to delete the tendentious claim that the New York Daily News is unusually unbalanced in its news coverage, and we should probably address the question of who provides most of the funding for PBS, since we've sought to define "public TV". Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:09, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
Gotta disagree about the Daily News. It's safe to say that more than half of us feel their worldview comports more with reality than their main competitor, but for me the question is one of market positioning, and the answer is that they very clearly intend themselves as the liberal mirror image of the Post. Too many cheeky Trump-mocking headlines to claim otherwise. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 14:42, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
They may have gotten more liberal in the last few years, but historically, they've been centrist but populist (in the sense of working on behalf of ordinary people) and haven't hesitated to endorse Republicans. Yes, their headlines are cute, but the actual coverage isn't unusually skewed. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:16, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Respect[edit]

The Respect section was well put of of proportion to the article. There was repetition, and a fair bit of talking down to the readers. We should not treat readers like children who need to be told who to conduct themselves in every situation. Nor should we give the impression that Americans are so volatile and quick to take offence that a foreigner has to avoid talking about anything at all. I have cut it back to a more reasonable size and respectful scope, and moved the points that relate to students to the appropriate article. Ground Zero (talk) 02:01, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Regional variation in American cuisine[edit]

While I agree that details on regional American cuisines belong in the American cuisine article, or the regional articles, I think it will be useful to have a cursory overview on how American cuisine differs from region to region. American cuisine does, after all, differ quite significantly between regions. For instance, the German-influenced simple and hearty meat-heavy cuisine of the Midwest is quite different from the spice heavy, and to some extent French-influenced cuisine of Louisiana. And not to mention the emphasis on seafood in New England and Maryland, which you obviously won't get in the Midwest given that it is inland and away from the sea. And as a travel guide, I think we should let foreigners have an idea of what to expect when travelling around the U.S. and trying the local cuisines. The dog2 (talk) 21:37, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

The American cuisine article is prominently linked at the top of the Eat section. We use branch articles to avoid overloading the country article with everything there is to know about the country, and making the article so long as to be unreadable. As the edit history of the talk page shows, many editors over the years have noted concern about the length of this article, and frustration that contributors add so much here while ignoring regional and topic articles. My edits only reduced the article to the size it was on May 19. 2021, less than two weeks ago. Is there any text in this article that you think is less important than want you want to add, i.e., that could be moved to another article or removed altogether? Ground Zero (talk) 22:33, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
I'd only propose adding a single sentence giving a cursory overview on how American cuisine differs between regions, similar to what it in the China article. I have in fact been adding stuff to some of the regional articles in the past few days, but I can only add content when I travel to those regions. The dog2 (talk) 22:58, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
You added quite a lot more than a single sentence today, in May and in April. Does your lack of a response to my suggestion that you find things less important to remove or move from the article mean that you are not interested in taking that approach, or that what you are proposing to add is less important than what is there now? Ground Zero (talk) 00:52, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
I don't think there's a consensus that all edits must be a net negative in length, but since you insist, what do you think is unimportant here? I'm guessing we could probably cut down detail on the types of food, perhaps form the barbecue section. The dog2 (talk) 01:31, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
But there is agreement that this article should not be allowed to grow indefinitely. Take a look at the discussions from 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2020. I've already taken a bunch of stuff out, as noted, but that didn't even undo two weeks of additions. And as you know, I've taken the lead on creating new articles to shift content out of this, and on culling the excess verbiage. It is not my job to cut stuff out so that others can add whatever they feel like. If you think that this article should be allowed to grow without limit, you should make the case for that position. Ground Zero (talk) 01:54, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
The article already states, "While many types of food are unchanged throughout the United States, there are a few distinct regional varieties of food". Maybe just change "a few" to "many" if you want to drive home the point that there are noticeable differences and variation among foods and dishes between regions. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 10:07, 3 June 2021 (UTC)