Talk:Georgia (country)

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Formatting and language conventions

For articles about Georgia, please use the 24-hour clock to show times, e.g. 09:00-12:00 and 18:00-00:00.

Please show prices in this format: 100 lari, and not ₾100, ლ100, or GEL100.

Please use American spelling.

For future reference the Project:CIA World Factbook 2002 import can be found at Talk:Georgia (country)/CIA World Factbook 2002 import.


wrong flag (cf.: wikipedia:Flag of Georgia (country))

Georgia Travel Page renovetion[edit]

Hi. I have been traveling to Georgia many times. I will update this article as time will allow me. But I promise to make it helpful and informative. Thanks. (WT-en) CanadianTraveler 11:12, 28 April 2006 (EDT)

Hi I will update both Georgia and Tbilisi article soon with fresh new info. Thanks (WT-en) CanadianTraveler 11:16, 15 May 2006 (EDT)


Travel & Tourist Agencies[edit]

I removed these from the main page as I don't believe it meets our goals. Looks like another way to add external links.

(removed - was attracting new spam)

-- (WT-en) Tom Holland (xltel) 10:07, 29 December 2006 (EST)


Images[edit]

I added images by Mr Marko Petrovic, very talented photographer and he gave permission to use his photos on Wikivoyage article Georgia. I copied his email and attached to each image in the Wikivoyage shared page. Please see description there. You can find collection of amazing Georgian photos here: http://www.trekearth.com/gallery/Asia/Georgia/ Thanks. (WT-en) CanadianTraveler 10:30, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

p.s more images to come. (WT-en) CanadianTraveler 10:53, 25 April 2007 (EDT)


Ancient wine traditions[edit]

Just to preempt any boring controversy over Georgia's wine traditions, here are (WT-en) CanadianTraveler's sources:

--(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald Talk 16:01, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

Links removed to avoid spam filter. See archive [1].

Geographical hierarchy for Georgia[edit]

Discussion moved to Talk:Georgia (country)/Geographical hierarchy

Trans-Caucasus Itinerary[edit]

I am interested in assisting in creating a 12-15 day trans-Caucasus itinerary with Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Armenia. Would anyone be interested in assisting me with this? (WT-en) Cupcakecommander 02:51, 31 July 2007 (EDT)


Information about Russia-Georgia war[edit]

Russian troops are only in Samegrelo in Northwest Georgia (near Abkhasia) and they are doing nothing in thear , CAN WE REMOVE WARNING?

- I'm from Georgia —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 89.232.10.171 (talkcontribs)

I understand the desire to remove the warning, but while there is no more active conflict right now, it's very unclear how things will settle. The fact that there are foreign troops in Samegrelo underscores this point. Wikivoyage keeps up warnings when there is something to warn about, even though, for example, I myself would feel perfectly comfortable visiting Georgia east of Gori right now. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 20:59, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

Questionable edits regarding Russian language in Georgia[edit]

Some very dubious edits keep cropping up over the years suggesting that Russian is no longer useful in Georgia, and that travelers can get by fine by speaking English with kids. This is ridiculous. Barring the mass murder of everyone over 30 in the country, I doubt so much has changed since I lived there in 2005, when about one in three people speaks Russian competently, and certainly any English ability on the part of schoolchildren was extremely limited, as there is a shortage of qualified English instructors. Some of the information being added is strictly nonfactual, like the notion that Russian language instruction was ever compulsory in Georgia... As a matter of fact, people are much more willing to speak Russian in the Caucasus than in the Baltics precisely because it was never mandatory. If you politely ask someone, უკაცრავად, რუსული იცით?, they will either shake their head no, or otherwise happily assist you.

It is also not useful to keep harping on the Russo-Georgian conflict ad nauseum. Travel in Georgia has little to do with it, and a lot more to do with friendly, hospitable people, delicious food, spectacular and diverse landscapes, and a unique culture and history predating the latest little conflict to the tune of 3500 years. Lets get back on topic.

I'll be reverting a lot of this bunk in the days to come. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:06, 6 July 2011 (EDT)

Currency code or lari[edit]

Just to be sure on this, does every one agree on using "lari" instead of "₾", "ლ" or "GEL" as the single currency identifier for all articles on Georgia? Cheers Ceever (talk) 19:18, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, that was a stupid sentence. ;-) I will just go ahead with this approach if no one objects. Cheers. Ceever (talk) 07:27, 14 May 2017 (UTC) Ceever (talk) 07:27, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Advice on pre-booking accomodation[edit]

Currently there is advice to arrive without a booking, claiming the owners will give the online price.

I came to edit this page to leave the complete opposite advice, and was very surprised to see what the previous editor sad to say. My experience has been that without a booking prices are likely to be bumped up marginally, especially in the off-season and this advice was also given to me twice by seasoned travelers who were leaving georgia. It is a noble sentiment to help accomodation providers keep more of their earnings, but It may not be in the interest of the traveler.

Does anyone have input on this, because I would like to reach consensus.

-willthewanderer 26/10/2017

Without knowing anything about the actual situation on the ground in Georgia, your best bet may be to try to write it to include both sides of the coin. Powers (talk) 21:28, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
I was the one who wrote it. Maybe it depends on the kind of accommodation. For me it was mostly budget accommodation. If this was the case for you too, then maybe we could change it towards saying that "when turning up on sight and quoting the price of pages like booking, owners will give you that rate and they will in addition save the fees, even though it might be more expensive when you do not quote the booking website". What do you think? Ceever (talk) 13:08, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Lede[edit]

I disagree with assertions that country headers are supposed to be short and dry, even though there are many examples of such elsewhere. But look at USA, look at France, look at Italy, New Zealand, UK. These are good examples in varying lengths of how to write a good introduction to a travel guide. They set the scene, summarise the country, sell the dream. Compare those to "Georgia (Georgian: საქართველო, Sakartvelo) is a country in the Caucasus. Sandwiched between Russia in the north and Turkey in the south, it sits on the coast of the Black Sea." and we're yawning because it's just like Wikipedia and tells you nothing to whet your appetite. Why anyone would think that is preferable over the lovely introduction written by IP User:80.99.57.97 is beyond me. It doesn't matter if stuff gets repeated in Understand, because it is an introduction, that's what they're for.

Quoting Wikivoyage:Country article template: The first section of the country article does not have a heading. This is the place for rhetorical flourish, not a list of dry facts; try to leave detailed information on history, culture, etc, for the Understand section. While some identifying information about the country can be useful (so that the traveller has some idea what you're talking about), the main purpose of the lead paragraph is to hook the reader's interest., it is clear that the Wikivoyage gods intended us to write beautiful intros, not stuffy one liners.

Plus, all that white space looks ridiculous and is a dreadful introduction to any article, never mind an entire country.

I would ask that either User:Ceever or User:Ibaman restore the IP's version of the lede, because what you have asserted as fact or policy is neither. Tidy it up if you will to make it flow nicer, but that version should be your starting point. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 00:04, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

I completely agree with you. —Granger (talk · contribs) 00:10, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
As it states and you have quoted: "This is the place for rhetorical flourish, not a list of dry facts; try to leave detailed information on history, culture, etc, for the Understand section.". What I moved down to the Understand section was more than just rhetorical flourish, namely a list of dry facts, arbitrary but facts. It was even an incomplete excerpt on history, which I find kind of sad, spreading such facts over various sections of an article, which happens quite often here on WV and creates duplication and chaos in the articles, instead of sticking it where it belongs. If you have been to Georgia, please, feel free to add something rhetorical flourish on people, feel of country and such, but please no facts that belong into the Understand section. Ceever (talk) 12:49, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
What, so as opposed to facts, we should only have falsehoods? The "facts" (just true stuff about the country) were not dry, they were interesting, and far superior to what is there now. I haven't been to Georgia, and nor have many other people, yet the IP user clearly has, which is why the IP's intro is a good starting point for improvement. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:11, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
I think the solution is to have a lede that's no more than one paragraph long, with some of the material moved to "Understand" but keeping enough of it in the lede to keep it colorful. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:13, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
If the lede is only going to be one paragraph long, I think we need to do something about the formatting to get rid of the big ugly white space. —Granger (talk · contribs) 23:21, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
Some information is useful in the introduction, but I don't think such detailed information should be included there. I'd agree with the one paragraph idea, although let's remember that a paragraph doesn't have to be two lines long. Selfie City (talk) 00:06, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
Are we talking in general terms, or just for Georgia? I don't think the longer ledes linked above should be shortened. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:56, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
I'm not suggesting a one-paragraph standard as a rule, only as a compromise that could work in this article and satisfy both sides of this particular argument. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:45, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
A compromise would be welcome from my POV. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 21:32, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
Thank you for those of you who expressed support for the longer introduction. As ThunderingTyphoons! correctly guessed, I have been to Georgia on many occasions and I just wanted to make this article more presentable and more worthy of the wonderful country that is Georgia. It is heartbreaking to reduce this introduction to a single, formulaic sentence. I also think we're dealing with a bit of a double standard here. Because Georgia is a small and relatively obscure country at the very edge of the continent, I suspect it is tempting for some to think that a single line would suffice for an introduction. After all, what could be interesting about such a "wretched" place?! On the flip side, I don't see anyone putting up a fight on pages like the Netherlands, which have large introductions replete with information AND praise...Keeping Georgia's introduction as a single, large paragraph, as it is now, is acceptable if people insist. However, I concur that the empty space it creates is hideous and serves no apparent purpose.

Georgia is in Eastern Europe?[edit]

Georgians, and perhaps a few other editors here, seem to consider that Georgia is in Eastern Europe. If so, we can and should respect that without stating without qualification that "Georgia is in Eastern Europe", because most of the world will disagree. Traditionally, at least in the West, Eastern Europe was considered to constitute the non-Soviet European countries in the Warsaw Pact - plus, I suppose, neutral Communist Yugoslavia and Albania, which played the Soviets off against the Chinese and maintained a dystopian independent regime - only (with Greece and perhaps Turkey and Cyprus being excluded for political reasons), but certainly nowhere east of most of the Asian part of Turkey. Georgia was part of the Soviet Union, and the region it's in is not the Balkans but the Caucasus. I don't know why it's controversial among some Georgians to state that their country is Caucasian, but this is not the first time we've seen this type of edit. We do have Georgia breadcrumbed to Europe and are treating the Caucasus as part of Europe, but stating that it's in "Eastern Europe" will confuse a lot of people who think of that term as encompassing nations like Bulgaria and Romania.

Is it actually a sensitive issue in Georgia to call the country part of the Caucasus region, and should it be stated in "Respect" that Georgians consider their nation part of Eastern Europe? I'd be OK with that if it's in fact an issue. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:10, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

In my experience, most people in the West have no idea what the Caucasus is. In everyday use, these countries are referred to as Eastern Europe. We don't need long and confusing explanation of Caucasus being at the intersection of continents. This is a travel website, not a geographic manual. We should go with what's simple. Georgia's location to the east of Turkey is irrelevant; Moscow is farther east than Ankara.
P.S. I'm Russian and the Russian version of Wikivoyage has included Georgia under Easter Europe for many years and no one seems to have objected.--Polinarok (talk) 23:32, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
The Russian Wikivoyage has Georgia breadcrumbed as part of the Caucasus. ARR8 (talk | contribs) 00:22, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
Maybe in everyday use in Russia, in spite of what ARR8 points out above, Georgia is considered to be in Eastern Europe, but name a country in the West that so considers it. People who have no idea where the Caucasus are also have no idea where Georgia is, so I think we can dismiss that concern and show them where it is. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:34, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
Agree with that conclusion. For some more context, I don't know about colloquial speech in Russia, but Georgia and the Caucasus are almost always mentioned in the same breath in Russian media and in the Russian diaspora - not that, ultimately, the behavior of Russian speakers matters to the Georgians for how they prefer to classify themselves. ARR8 (talk | contribs) 00:46, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
Yes, the Russian site has Georgia breadcrumbed under Caucasus but it also clearly says Eastern Europe in the text. Also, the Caucasus page itself says it's Eastern Europe.
In the West, calling Georgia Eastern Europe makes more sense than calling it Caucasus because people at least have some vague associations with Eastern Europe, i.e. being former USSR or bordering Russia. Caucasus means close to nothing. Only Russians and other fellow ex-USSR nations would be familiar with it.--Polinarok (talk) 03:24, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
You've expressed your views clearly, and I appreciate that, but neither of us agree with you, so you'd have to persuade a consensus of other people in order to state this in the article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:39, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
Western Europeans at least do know where Caucasus is, and that Georgia is located there. Caucasus, in turn, can be regarded as part of either Europe or Asia, and at least the mountain range is according to Wikipedia "today accepted by the majority of scholars as being part of Asia". ϒψιλον (talk) 05:31, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
Even if it were true that Westerners don't know where the Caucasus is, it would still be irrelevant. We at Wikivoyage are not in the business of dumbing things down to pander to the most ignorant of our readers. They're big boys and girls. If they read a phrase like "Georgia is located in the Caucasus" and don't know what it means, they can look it up. We even have an article on the Caucasus, to which we presumably link from the Georgia article. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 05:55, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

Re-opening after COVID[edit]

Georgia will reopen for international tourism on July 1 Pashley (talk) 12:50, 28 May 2020 (UTC)