Wikivoyage:Destination of the month candidates

From Wikivoyage
Jump to: navigation, search

Here we determine which articles are featured on the Main Page as Destination of the month (Dotm), Off the Beaten Path (OTBP) and Featured travel topics (FTT).

Nominate[edit]

You can nominate any article you would like to see featured. Any destination, region, itinerary or event that passes the "What is an article?" test is eligible for nomination.

However, before nominating, please check that the article follows these basic guidelines:

Well-known and/or popular destinations should be nominated as Destination of the Month, while more obscure destinations should be nominated for Off the Beaten Path. Travel topics, phrasebooks, itineraries and other articles should be nominated for Featured Travel Topic. Where applicable, you should propose a good time to visit the destination as a month to be featured.

The basic format of a nomination is as follows:

{{FeatureNom
| place=Destination
| blurb='''[[Destination]]''' is a place of contrasts, and as such it...
| status=Guide
| time=March-June
| nominatedBy=~~~~
| comment=Great article and it's just luvvly-jubbly in the springtime.
| DotMImage=[[File:Destinationimage.jpg|thumb|300px]]
}}

Add a nomination to the end of the appropriate section.

Discuss[edit]

You can comment on any nomination based on timeliness and adherence to the criteria above, just add a bullet point (*) and your signed opinion.

===[[Destination]]===
Great article and it's just luvvly-jubbly in the springtime. TravelNut 25:25, 31 Feb 2525 (EDT)
* Looks nice, but shouldn't the Do section contain more than just quilting contests? ~~~~

Please note that the following are not considered valid reasons to oppose a nomination:

  • "I don't like it." All objections have to be based on the guidelines above: poor formatting, missing information, etc. Personal opinions, dislikes, etc. do not count.
  • "Wrong time of year." Articles are supported or opposed based on their content. Timing can be worked out later.
  • "Wrong type of place." Articles are supported or opposed based on their content. Whether it's DoTM or OtBP can be worked out later.

Select[edit]

If an article gets several comments in favor and none against for a week or so, it's eligible to be placed in an appropriate time-slot in the Upcoming queue. If the objections are relatively minor and are being worked on, add them to the Upcoming queue tentatively (add a question mark "?" after the article). Feel free to move the queue around or swap articles if it makes sense. If a nomination clearly does not make the grade and if the objections are not easily fixable, they go into the Slush pile

Once a nomination has been scheduled, an appropriate banner image and text blurb must be selected. Go to Wikivoyage:Destination of the month candidates/Banners to start that discussion.

Archive[edit]

Discussions for previously selected destinations are kept in the Archive.

Upcoming[edit]

Schedule[edit]

The following queue should contain about six months' worth of upcoming destinations. Note that new DotMs are rotated in on the 1st of each month, OtBPs on the 11th and travel topics on the 21st.

Month DotM OtBP FTT
July 2015 Łódź Trondheim Frequent flyer programmes
August 2015 Manchester Davenport - pending stronger consensus to support Hiking in the Nordic countries
September 2015 Munich for Oktoberfest Altai Tavan Bogd National Park Breaking Bad Tour
October 2015 Fortaleza Hyden Natchez Trace Parkway
November 2015 Jaipur Grand-Bassam - pending stronger consensus to support Begging
December 2015 Dumaguete Taxila Driving in New Zealand - pending stronger consensus to support

These are not cast in stone, and the order can be changed if, for example, an excellent guide for a timely event is found. Whenever a guide becomes a current feature, it should be removed from the list, the discussion archived, and a new month added to the end of the queue. Alternatives are OK; the whole point is to enable some discussion as needed.

Next change[edit]

Decisions regarding which images to use as the banners are made here.

The section below provides an opportunity to see what the upcoming featured articles will look like on the Main Page using the banners that are currently most popular on the above page.

Destination of the Month[edit]

Manchester

Long famous as the "cradle of the Industrial Revolution", the UK's second city is now in full renaissance mode, with enormous redevelopment breathing new life into its streets.

Off the Beaten Path[edit]

Trondheim

The hub city of central Norway has something for everyone — a Gothic cathedral, beautiful old wooden houses, and lively nightlife — all in the middle of a typical Scandinavian landscape.

Featured Travel Topic[edit]

Frequent flyer programmes

To some flyers great value, to some just another expense. Before joining one of these, it pays to learn about their benefits and drawbacks — read more here!

Updating[edit]

On the date of the scheduled change, the DotM, OtBP, or FTT should be changed as close to midnight UTC as possible. When the featured page is changed, please follow the following procedures to do so and archive content to the appropriate pages. At each stage, please double-check that you are correctly moving content.

  1. Update the featured articles on the main page by replacing the current 'banner' template section with those of the appropriate banner for the new DotM/OtBP/FTT found in the Next change section above.
  2. Update the Photo credits page with the banner's original image, title and attribution.
  3. Add the former featured article to the appropriate archive page: Previous Destinations of the month, Previously Off the beaten path, or Previous Featured travel topics.
  4. Remove Template:Featurenomination from newly featured article.
  5. For the former featured article, add the appropriate parameter to the pagebanner template (directly after the image filename) to label the page as having been featured previously.
    • For former DotMs, add: dotm=yes
    • For former OtBPs, add: otbp=yes
    • For former FTTs, add: ftt=yes
  6. Archive the newly featured article's nomination. Simply cut-and-paste the nomination section of the newly featured article from this page to Wikivoyage:Destination of the Month candidates/Archive.
  7. Update the Next change section above by adding the banner from the discussion page. View the table in the Schedule section above to determine what next month's change will be, then update the image and blurb in the "Next change" section with that found in the upcoming featured article's nomination.
  8. Archive the newly featured article's banner by cutting-and-pasting all banner suggestions and the associated discussion into Wikivoyage:Destination of the month candidates/Banners/Archive.

Nominations for Destination of the Month[edit]

Manchester[edit]

Place: Manchester
Blurb: Long famous as the "cradle of the Industrial Revolution", the UK's second city is now in full renaissance mode, with enormous redevelopment breathing new life into its streets. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: May-Oct
Nominated by: Nick talk 18:33, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
Comment: Been working on this article for quite some time and whilst it's not quite polished yet, it will be by the time it would be featured. Another underrated but ascendant city; I've had several discussion with the Manchester Tourist Board about the article, so a feature would be a great opportunity to engage with them again.

Nomination
...And on the sixth day, God created Manchester.jpg
  • Strong support — Well done Nick, you made it. I never been to UK but the articles look very detailed but few points but very minor. You replaced the map with another which looks not fine to me so I'll begin work on improving the map soon. The suburbs district such as North and South are quite large in size however the article contains only 1 see listing each and buy sections are empty. Are you sure there's no other attraction there and nowhere to shop? I also strongly suggest to expand the get in sections all all the district articles. --Saqib (talk) 18:55, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
Thanks Saqib! I simply replaced the map as the previous one didn't have any roads on. If you'd like me to make any changes, I can do and that might be easier as I still have the original files. I will add some more detail to the sections you describe as well :) --Nick talk 02:28, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Comment At a quick glance, this looks very good, but I thought we weren't nominating any other destinations right now. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:40, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
Whoops! I should probably learn to read! :) --Nick talk 13:33, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Ikan is correct that we've been strongly discouraging folks from advancing new nominees from anything other than FTT, but if Nick is willing to be understanding about waiting till next year for this to be featured, then I'm willing to support it. It's a first-rate article and Nick really did good work on it. I disagree with the Time to feature, though. Per w:Manchester#Climate, May-Sep (possibly extending into Oct) seems like a more reasonable window. On average, temperatures in the dead of winter top out at 7°C (47°F) and dip down to just above freezing at night. In a strict sense, climatic conditions like that are probably tolerable, but certainly far less than ideal. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 06:07, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
I agree with your thoughts on timing Andrew - I only suggested the end of the year as that seemed to be the next available time for featured articles, but I'd be happy to see it featured at any point. --Nick talk 13:39, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
On this basis, I am happy to support this article. I still haven't read through the entire thing, but it seems outstanding and rather comprehensive to me. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:12, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Comment(s) - The article looks really good and the districts look OK. I'd prefer to have coordinates for the POIs and them plotted on a dynamic map, though. BTW did you really mean the end of 2015 (after two years?) or rather late 2014 (unlikely as the table above is full) or March/April 2015 if the "tourist season" starts in May? ϒpsilon (talk) 19:46, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
I will work on the co-ordinates and I've changed the date above accordingly. Thanks for the feedback! --Nick talk 21:09, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Support Pashley (talk) 18:29, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Support I last visitted Manchester during the Commonwealth Games, and it brought some good back memories - it is a good article. It would be good to do a little work on some of the districts before it is featured - few have maps. AlasdairW (talk) 23:50, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Munich[edit]

Place: Munich
Blurb: The capital of beer, brezn and Bavaria, this cosmopolitan city at the foot of the Alps plays host for two weeks each autumn to the world-famous Oktoberfest. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Sep (start of Oktoberfest)
Nominated by: jan (talk) 12:18, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
Comment: Local user and some other did a terrific job to get the innercity districts up to guide and only two are usable (rather lack of points of interest than lack of content). Maybe some pics need to be adjusted but most content is updated and fresh.

Nomination
Oktoberfest woman.jpg
  • Support Great city and article. jan (talk) 12:21, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Support The article and its districts look good. Yes, the best time to feature it would be September. But as of now September 2014 is already taken so it'll have to wait for 15 months if we don't feature it in the spring (or if Munich looks and feels beautiful and cozy with Christmas lights and some snow maybe already in December) ϒpsilon (talk) 20:21, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
Ypsilon, i'm under the impression that some editors want to get a step further and bring all districts up to guide and additionally update some pics. That might need a while, so i was rather aiming for Sep 15. At the moment we are not lacking nominations, so i don't mind if it takes 15 months. jan (talk) 21:40, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. Looks good to me. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 20:25, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. The article(s) look(s) pretty good now. And by September '15 the two remaining districts hopefully will have guide status, too. Tbp386 (talk) 09:01, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. I'm delighted to support this article, and I applaud all the work that has been done to improve this article and the district articles. I respect the opinion that September is the best month of the year to feature an article about Munich, but the city is beautiful in other seasons, too. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:44, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Support for THIS October (2014) - I guess we all agree that the Munich articles are pretty much ready for sharing with the wide world. I also believe that the ideal month to feature Munich is October, for obvious reasons. Why should we wait a year to feature it if we have an October coming? I believe we can reschedule Karachi to a later month, as the original nomination therefor called for "Nov-Mar", so no harm would apparently be done if we put Munich in October and then Karachi anytime later. Besides, we seem to feature quite few European destinations. PrinceGloria (talk) 04:52, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Yes, Munich is ready now. But please explain how you would suggest reshaping the schedule. Karachi has waited a lot longer than Munich since it was nominated, let's not forget. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:55, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
On the contrary, Europe has traditionally been overrepresented among our feature destinations, and inasmuch as that has not been true this past year, it's due to an intentional effort on our part to diversify our offerings. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 11:02, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Re: Andre - I am only active on Wikivoyage for a short time, in my time Europe has been underrepresented. It does attract unproportionally high tourist traffic and number of major attractions/destinations, this is why we have "Off the Beaten Path" where Europe is currently not present at all. I don't think we should go to either extreme. I'd say 3/12 or 4/12 DotM's from Europe annually are fine.
Re: Ikan - it is not about how long an article waits IMHO. When it's ready, it's ready. It will be fine today, tomorrow or in a few months. Munich only makes sense in October obviously, and I guess we should make amends for destinations that have a strong connection with a particular month. Like e.g. Vienna or Milan should be our DotM for May since the Eurovision will be held in the former, and the Expo opens in the latter. Let us hope either is rife for featuring by then - if not, any other destination can fill in.
I would simply reschedule Karachi to February, I don't think that would do much damage. PrinceGloria (talk) 12:05, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
In principle, I’m not opposed to featuring Munich in October of this year, but Saqib might be. If I remember correctly, he was already disappointed at having to wait so long for another Pakistani destination to be featured after Mohenjo-daro last February. Anyway, February 2015 is a no go in any case, because OtBP that month will be either Kirthar National Park or Taxila. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 13:28, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Oktoberfest is really a party that precedes October, only a few days of the event is actually in October but most of takes place in September. Therefore September would be the right month to feature it if we want to bundle it with the Oktoberfest. Otherwise you would have quite a hurry to get there to experience even the last day of the event, especially if you're not in Europe. That would also give us the question, what to do with Calgary? Or with Karachi?
I don't see how overrepresentation would play a role in this particular case, as Munich, Calgary and Karachi are each from the regions (E+Asia+US/CA) that make up the 92% of our featured destinations, however, admittedly this year we haven't had that many DotMs or OtBPs from Europe (Asia on the other hand...). Anyway, I'm also of the opinion that when articles are ready they should be featured as soon as possible, if other articles are nominated later they will have to wait unless there are some specific reason to feature them a particular month. Also, per above, Jan and Tbp386 are fine with featuring it after a year, and plan to write up some district articles to Guides. Therefore: let's don't.
We could of course also feature Munich in the upcoming spring/summer. ϒpsilon (talk) 14:22, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
AndreCarrotflower, I wouldn't oppose featuring Munich article in October if community thinks that is best in the interest of WV. Even though Karachi was nominated quite earlier than Munich and I put lot of efforts into the article but honestly speaking, there's no need to give me favor if you think I would mind or upset. I may get disappointed but that will be temporary. But we need to see in this case whether Munich worth to feature in October? I've been to Munich once but I don't know much about the city as Ypsilanti Da Vinci knows and he have disagreement with PrinceGloria over featuring the article in October. --Saqib (talk) 22:55, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
Quite simply, October is no good if we're going to highlight Oktoberfest, for precisely the reason Ypsilon mentioned. It's almost gotta be September, and that would mean September 2015. Powers (talk) 00:03, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
Also, to be perfectly frank, it would tick me off to have gone through what I went through in finding a banner for Karachi only to have the feature delayed. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 00:08, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
We have a whole lot of people who know more about Munich (Andrewssi2, Ikan, our German colleagues and of course Prince) than myself, and I haven't really even looked at the article. However I do know that the event ends early October, and if going to Munich e.g. October 10th, you'll just see a bunch of construction workers packing down the tents and stuff for next year's event. It could be compared to featuring "Christmas in X" as December's FTT from Dec 21 onwards. Featuring it in September would mean Calgary would displace Karachi or have to wait until the spring. As well, Jan and Tbp desired to build further on the article before it gets featured.
If there's really problems with getting Karachi ready until October, it can change places with Muscat and be featured one month later. Also, remember that Saqib has done a lot of work on the article and it was nominated already last November (the same goes for Calgary). ϒpsilon (talk) 05:09, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
Since I guess we all agree on September 2015, can we already schedule it for then? I see no problem with scheduling far into the future to secure place for articles that we agree are good enough to be featured. I would also move to block May 2015 for either Milan or Vienna, whichever's ready. PrinceGloria (talk) 10:25, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
Especially after the way the schedule looked for most of this year, I don't agree with extending the grid further into the future than policy says. At this point in time we may all agree on September 2015, but it's pointless to talk about what we'll feature on the Main Page over a year from now when no one knows what new and exciting articles will be nominated or what other variables might come into play between now and then. This discussion will be easily accessible on the dotm page right up to the time Munich is featured, so I highly doubt that we'll "forget" about it. (As for Milan and Vienna, those haven't even been nominated yet!) -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 11:47, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
I have not been following this project earlier, so I do not know what you are referring to, but I guess if the policy says otherwise, the policy should thus be changed. On the one hand we say that "Karachi should go first because it waited for so long" (no issue with Karachi, I am very fine with it going on the front page anytime), and almost with the same breath you say that "anything can happen in the future". So, if we agree that Munich is rife for featuring, and that Sep 2015 is a good date, why can't we schedule it already. If something absolutely bombastic and even more urgently needing the Sep 2015 spot appears, we can always change the schedule even on Aug 31. But I'd rather make sure we book this place for Munich and, unless something really revolutionary appears, keep it that way.
BTW, I guess only the hardcore enthusiasts of DoTM would keep track of what was said when and where. I can't see myself digging through all the lenghty discussions here on destinations that are not necessarily in my area of interest, and thus I don't think that everybody coming here will necessarily read this discussion on Munich which has already grown super-long. Unless there is a "general secretary" specifically tasked with keeping track of every discussion and possible outcomes, I believe we should simply close a discussion whenever there is an agreement, archive it (for reference if anybody would want to dig through it and reopen) and just put the nomination up there in the table for whenever it is agreed. This is the way GA and FA work on Wikipedia and I guess this is a mightily fine mechanism. PrinceGloria (talk) 20:38, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

(unindent) PrinceGloria - this is not Wikipedia, and policy changes here require consensus. You can read at the beginning of the "Schedule" section of this very page where the policy says that the grid is to extend for six months past the current month. The reasons why we don't put articles on the schedule that far in advance are simple: in addition to the reason that's already been brought to light, if we were to list every month between now and September 2015 the grid would be long and unwieldy, and if we were to jump right from January to September it would be confusing. Now as you've already acknowledged, the consensus is that Munich will go on the front page in September 2015, and it appears to me that everyone is on board with that, and nobody here is operating in bad faith, and there's no grand conspiracy afoot to keep Munich off the Main Page. So I don't understand why you won't just accept the community's word that Munich will be featured in September 2015 barring any truly extraordinary turn of events. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 23:36, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Simply because I believe that the current process and policy makes it hard for a non-involved user to gather and grasp. There is only a limited number of users involved here, and I believe we would be better served if the widest possible circle were. Moreover, "community" is not a person, and I can take anybody's word, but if all five of us are away or not looking, this whole consensus might just as well be overlooked in 12 months from now. And, as I said, I'd hate for anybody to have to read this lenghty discussion before making sure they can put something up for featuring in Sep 2014. PrinceGloria (talk) 04:12, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
Well, as of now there are only some 3-5 hardcore enthusiasts that in practice are continuously involved with in the DotM/OtBP/FTT (all of which are supporting Munich for DotM) while average users just comment on their favorite articles now and then. In fact, I myself got involved with this section last winter when I noticed that the Travel topic section was about to entirely run out of articles. If we eventually get more people regularly involved that might have to change. Also, unless someone nominates a really bad article in which case it ends on the Slush pile within days, articles are in general not dropped out of here unless there are issues with the article which aren't fixed in a couple of months. Munich does not have such problems.
Also, when September's slots will emerge in April, this thread will be almost at the top of the page and the "Time to feature" parameter of Munich's nomination box says "September" so I don't think it will be forgotten.
Plus, the risk for someone suggesting something for only September 2015 is small. Articles are virtually almost nominated for a range of possible months, not just one. ϒpsilon (talk) 04:47, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
Prince, just a suggestion but why not you start a policy discussion somewhere else rather than stretching this nomination discussion? Otherwise, for the record, I agree with Andrew and I'm absolutely fine with current queue contain six months' worth of upcoming destinations. And Your Royal Highness Prince Gloria of Poland, Andrew is serving to this tedious task since a long time now and I'm pretty sure he'll keep continue it for many years to come so no need to worry about as Andrew will surely remember Munich when September 2015 will come. --Saqib (talk) 04:57, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Banff[edit]

Place: Banff
Blurb: Time to pack your skis or snowboard! Set among the spectacular Canadian Rockies, Banff has something for every outdoor enthusiast (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Any (it looks like there's outdoor activities all around the year — Nov-Apr is the ski season)
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 19:52, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
Comment: Would this be something for upcoming March's empty slot? I don't think we've ever featured a winter sports destination and I've understood Banff is one of the most popular ones in North America, therefore DotM. Banff was slushed six years ago for being just usable, having just one attraction and missing a lot of addresses and directions. This is not the case any longer, thanks to among others the main author of Calgary, currently DoTM. The article would need more pictures, some more coordinates and maybe a minor cleanup/checkup (copyedit, removal of dead links) but otherwise it's a quite nice article.

Nomination
BanffAvenue.jpg


  • Almost - per my comments. ϒpsilon (talk) 19:52, 22 September 2014 (UTC) Yes Done
  • The article definitely has potential, but as you said, Calgary just ended its stint as DotM. I'd be very concerned about placing two DotM candidates so close to each other on the schedule that are not only in the same country, but only 90 minutes' drive apart. If we feature this, it should be no earlier than winter 2015-16. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:35, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Fixed a number of bad links and incorrect listings and added coordinates. Moved some information out to the park article and added a few images. In a better state now for consideration. --Traveler100 (talk) 16:48, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Almost. Most of the issues Ypsi mentioned in his initial comment seem to have been addressed. However, I still can't yet give this article my full support. There are some activities listed in the "Summer" and "Hiking" subsections of "Do" that have no descriptive blurbs, and some of the destinations in "Go next" don't have one-liner descriptions either. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 05:33, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
Great work so far, User:Traveler100! I agree with André that there are still a few small fixes needed, however can probably be quickly done. ϒpsilon (talk) 07:30, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
Will try to look if there's something I can do to enhance this article in the weekend. Possibly Edmonton too. ϒpsilon (talk) 19:57, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm really glad to see someone finally addressing the longstanding problems with Banff, Ypsi, but as for Edmonton, I wouldn't worry about that too much - it requires a lot more work than Banff does. The issues with Edmonton are spread out among five district articles, each of which are full of outdated listings and, still more problematic, outdated static maps. That article is probably going to get slushed, and that's all right with me. Well and good to encourage people to get off their duffs and fix what needs fixing, but to contend with problems of that magnitude is a bit much to ask, I think. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 20:26, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
I've read only through "Do" so far. The article looks quite good. One thing I noticed, though, was this text under "Do/Spas": but only the Upper Hot Springs Pool and Pleiades Spa allow visitors the opportunity to bathe in water from a hot spring. Why is there no listing for Pleiades Spa in that section? Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:55, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
The full name of the first listing is "Banff Upper Hot Springs and Pleiades Massage & Spa", so it's probably one large complex with all kinds of wellness services. On their web page you can find Pleiades Spa in the Spa section. ϒpsilon (talk) 20:24, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
Well that sure wasn't clear! The confusion should be ended. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:11, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. I added a few descriptions of restaurants that had none, in the process of reading through the article and putting in some copy edits. There are still one "Drink" listing with no description other than the name (Aurora Nightclub and Hoodoo Lounge) and one "Eat" listing with no description other than the name (Three Ravens Restaurant and Wine Bar), so someone should really add descriptions if possible, but the article is quite excellent and I'm prepared to support it with those small caveats. (P.S. The confusion I referred to above has been effectively dealt with.) Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:52, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
About scheduling: If we want to feature Banff as a winter destination, March is a bit late, as average highs are over 5 C. at that time of year. Nov-Feb looks like the below-freezing season, with December-January ideal for skiing, et al. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:55, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Just reviewed this article again. I'm prepared to give it my weak support at this time, and anticipate featuring it in January 2016. However, there are still a few listings in the "Eat" section (Vistas Dining Room, Mountain Chocolates, both locations of The Keg Steakhouse and Lounge) that lack descriptions of any kind, and the same is true of the Banff Summer Arts Festival and the Banff World Media Festival. Since my Wikivoyage to-do list is much clearer than before, I'll see if I can't attend to that after I get back from vacation on the 19th. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:01, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Dumaguete[edit]

Place: Dumaguete
Blurb: Both an interesting destination itself and a good base for trips to the many nearby beach and dive resorts. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: My guess is N. hemisphere winter, so late 2015, but for all I know Aussies might come in their winter. (The dry season is Dec-May)
Nominated by: Pashley (talk) 13:02, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Comment: Several people have been working on this article lately & it was just promoted to Guide. I'm in the town & will continue the work. It might be star by the time it is featured; suggestions & criticism welcome.

Nomination
Dumaguete City Rizal Boulevard.jpg


  • Support. I've been watching the progress of this article and doing some copy editing along the way. What's your feeling about this city as DotM vs. OtBP? Is it a huge draw for tourism? Also, is there a rainy season when we should avoid running the article? Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:55, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
I'd say DotM; it is a provincial capital and w:Dumaguete#Hotel and Tourism says it is among the top ten tourist destinations in the country. You certainly see lots of tourists, plus plenty of expats & retirees, and there are good services for them.
w:Dumaguete#Climate says the wet season is June-Nov, so I'd say run it Dec 2015 or a bit later. Pashley (talk) 15:27, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Support as DotM. Attracts far too many international tourists to consider it for off the beaten track, imho. Great progress has been made on the article, and I'm sure Pashley will polish it up even more. No hesitations here. JuliasTravels (talk) 19:38, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
  • I don't see how we can make this DotM when Trondheim and Turku are Off the Beaten Path. Each is on its country's list of nine cities; Dumaguete is not. Powers (talk) 19:47, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
We could discuss at Talk:Philippines whether Dumaguete should be among the 9 listed cities, in place of one of the currently-listed cities, but I don't think your objection is really that obvious. For example, don't you think that the United States has more than 10 cities that would obviously be DotM, if run? Perhaps the Philippines does, too, but in any event, the remarks by Pashley and JuliasTravels satisfy me as to Dumaguete's appropriateness as a DotM. I get the feeling that you believe that every country or region should have an equal number of DotM, but I'm not sure anyone agrees with you on this, and I certainly don't. There are quite a few countries that have no DotM at all, in my opinion. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:46, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
Just to explain my rationale; if I'd go to Dumaguete as suggested OtbT destination on WV, and find myself in a tourism dominated town with international visitors all around me, I'd feel mislead. I know I did not get that impression in Turku, but I haven't been to Trondheim. I have no strong feelings about this, however. JuliasTravels (talk) 09:39, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
No, of course every country doesn't have the same number of DotM-worthy candidates, but I think any country (of significant size, so excluding places like Liechtenstein and East Timor) probably has at least nine. Powers (talk) 15:57, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
I don't agree. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:17, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
I do not think LtPowers' comparison is either fair or would be particularly useful if it were. Sure, Trondheim and Turku are among the 9 for their countries (population 5.something million each) and Dumaguete does not make it to the 9 for the Philippines (100 million), but is certainly one of the two most important cities on Negros Island (4 million), and it does make the list of 9 for Visayas (17 million).
Anyway, the important question is its importance as a travel destination & I'd say on that basis it is clearly a DotM. Pashley (talk) 10:46, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Support — not bad. I'm not really familiar with the Philippines, so I don't have an opinion whether Dumaguete should be DotM or OtBP. Tiny nitpick: as of now there's no Eat#Splurge section. Is any of the listed restaurants perchance a bit more upscale than the rest? ϒpsilon (talk) 14:26, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
I have added a section at Dumaguete#Splurge but it is not in our usual format. What do others think? Pashley (talk) 07:00, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
It's OK with me because I believe it serves the traveler well. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:23, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Support with no strong opinion either way on the DotM vs. OtBP question. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 05:18, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
It was high on my personal list before my current scouting trip and now tops it. Lots of older westerners including several who have moved here from other parts of the Philippines. I talked to one who moved from Manila; says D is cheaper, quieter, safer. Another came here after 15 years on Boracay; cheaper, much better medical facilities and better transport connections. Pashley (talk) 11:31, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
Talked to one today who moved here from Bangkok, mostly because it is cheaper. Pashley (talk) 12:45, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Delay until after merge. Discussion at Talk:Sibulan suggests some articles on nearby towns should be merged into D, and there seems to be consensus on the question. We probably should not feature D until that work is done. Pashley (talk) 02:17, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Pashley, I had envisioned scheduling Dumaguete for very late 2015 or very early 2016. Do you predict nine months will be enough time to sort out those issues? -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 02:35, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Almost certainly. There is only a hour or so of work involved. However, I will not get to it soon & no-one else has volunteered, so it seemed worth a note here. Pashley (talk) 02:47, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Yes Merge done. Pashley (talk) 04:49, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Fortaleza[edit]

Place: Fortaleza
Blurb: Sunbathing all day, partying all night — Fortaleza truly deserves its place among Brazil's beach metropolises (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Jul-Jan (late 2015?)
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 21:47, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Incredible! We've never ever featured anything from the world's 5th largest country! So here's one of our few Brazilian Guide articles, however as of now it's more of a mess than a guide (please don't demote it!). Nevertheless, there are at least a couple of months before Fortaleza even shows up in the Upcoming table and by then we'll have made the article look much better, right? :) Overall tidying, listingfying, importing and translation of stuff from other language versions, updating of information, more pictures, geo coordinates, and adding a dynamic map are among stuff that needs to be done.

Nomination
Praia do Mucuripe.jpg
  • Not yet — Per comment. ϒpsilon (talk) 21:47, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Almost. Ypsilon, your words above prepared me to think the article would be much messier than it really is! Actually, Fortaleza is not in terribly bad shape. The most obvious need is for geo coordinates and a map, and while the other fixes Ypsi listed are apropos, they only apply to bits and pieces of the article - there are many other sections ("Understand", "Get in", "Get around", arguably "See") that probably need no further improvement. October 2015 is the earliest month for which we have no suitable DotM candidates. The level of work this article needs is such that I'm sure we can get it to a featureable state by that time. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 21:11, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Not yet — Need work. I found majority of listings are one-liner. Lead section need few lines. Would appreciate if "SEE" listings could be slightly expanded. Too many sub-sections in "DO". Content could be merged all into two or three sub-sections. Since Fortaleza is one of major cities of Brazil, I'm sure there'll be plenty of basic, mid range and spluge restaurants so the section could be written accordingly which will make things more clearer. A dynamic map with all listings marked can significantly improve the article. --Saqib (talk) 14:27, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Actually, I haven't advertised it heavily, but spent several days with this article a month ago and today it's really a different article. User:Ibaman and the IP user who should get a barnstar and others have helped out too. I think I can give Fortaleza a support vote. What do you, Andre and Saqib think now? ϒpsilon (talk) 18:34, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
I think I went harsh with Amritsar so let me go easy with this one, atleast. So i would say this is very close my friend BUT it still need some work. Repeating again that would appreciate if some of the "SEE" and "EAT" listings with one-liner, could be slightly expanded. As for EAT section, don't you think local dishes should instead go to country level article OR are they really relevant here? --Saqib (talk) 19:13, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
OK, I will look into the one-liner See and Eat listings in the next couple of days. User:Ibaman or IP200 (the same person?) added many of the individual dishes. I, too, would rather move them either to Brazil or Ceará unless they are specialties of or originate from Fortaleza. ϒpsilon (talk) 19:53, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Andre, below you were worried about not having an article to feature in October. Do take a look at Fortaleza now (tried to alert you last week, aren't the notifications working?).
Saqib, I've tried to fix the issues you mentioned last week as well as possible.
User:Ibaman, muito obrigado ;) .
ϒpsilon (talk) 12:19, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for reminding me about this, Ypsi; I did see myself tagged here, but was swamped with other things. The article could use a copyedit, and I'm not sure about the bullet-point listings in the Culture section for the same reason Saqib was unsure about the dishes described in the Eat section - are they specific to Fortaleza or do they belong in the country or region article? Still, these being minor issues, the article has my support.
As to my concern about October, I had envisioned Fortaleza as our November 2015 DotM. It could certainly work for October as well, but then we'd be faced with the problem of what to run in November, which is an even more difficult month to choose for - locations in the temperate latitudes of the Northern Hemisphere might be borderline justifiable in October, but would be fully out of the question in November.
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 12:36, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
For November, I was thinking Banff for the start of the skiing season as soon as I'm done fixing it :). As I said when nominating Banff (for March 2015 actually!), we still never had any winter sports destination on the Main page. And Dumaguete for December.
(Oops, I actually noticed that many of Fortaleza's Sleep entries could use better descriptions and I'm trying to patch them before someone notices...). ϒpsilon (talk) 12:56, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
That would definitely work. I was actually still holding out hope that we could fix up Yangshuo in time to feature it in October; if that does happen, we could still run Fortaleza in November and Banff later in the winter. Either way, it appears we're covered. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 13:03, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
YPSI: Thank you for fixing the issues. This nomination have my Support now! --Saqib (talk) 14:33, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
  • just for the record, yes, Ibaman and 200.252.135.74 are one and the same. :D Ibaman (talk) 20:33, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. I have yet to visit Brazil, so someone who personally knows the city may see problems that are obvious to them and invisible to me, but the article looks good to me. Incidentally, for whatever it's worth, it didn't feel to me as a reader that "Do" has too many subsections. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:43, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
Two questions, though: Would it make sense to recenter the map over the city and zoom it in? Also, do the walking tours mentioned under "See/Other" pass muster under this site's tour listings policy? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:45, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
To me it doesn't matter very much how the map is zoomed, but a few days ago I saw a discussion somewhere, where André said he didn't like it when too many POIs were outside the mapframe. So maybe it should stay as it is.
Those tours gotta go, already because the links are both dead (you cannot determine whether they fulfil the critieria of tour) and thus there's a good chance the tours don't exist any longer. Also, they were apparently in Portuguese only and this is en WV. ϒpsilon (talk) 17:10, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
Would recentering the map before zooming it address the problem of having too many POIs outside the mapframe in any way? Right now, we have a huge regional map with loads of plus signs, and it's not too helpful unless it's clicked on and zoomed in once or twice. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:11, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
I've no idea. As you can see I made an attempt to center and zoom in the map, feel free to improve it further.
Honestly speaking I think our guides would be better off without the mapframe. There could instead be popup maps that would open in small windows next to the POI icons in the text when clicking on them (similar to WikiMiniAtlas in Wikipedia). ϒpsilon (talk) 10:51, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
That might not serve people without good connectivity or access to printers optimally. I think the map should be bigger and zoomed to 14. I'm not sure how to make a mapframe bigger. I'll see if I can make sense out of the instructions at this time. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:58, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
I just recentered the map again, to decrease the amount of water, zoomed it to 14, and made the mapframe larger, so that it covers the same territory the previous version covers, but with fewer + signs. What do you all think of it? Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:06, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
There was a fierce discussion half a year ago concerning the size of the embedded maps, can't remember if it was on an article's talk page or somewhere else. I think at least User:Texugo was strongly opposed to maps larger than absolutely necessary. ϒpsilon (talk) 11:15, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
In theory, no map in the article is actually necessary, as we could adopt your proposal of having maps only as popups; however, if a map is used at all, it should be at least marginally useful to the reader. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:36, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
The pop-up maps would be a nice supplement to a pair of custom static maps (one for the full city and an inset for the area of dense markers). Powers (talk) 18:33, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
A pair of static maps for this article, as you describe, could be really helpful if anyone wants to make them. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:49, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Cartagena (Colombia)[edit]

Place: Cartagena (Colombia)
Blurb: Equally famous for its beautifully preserved colonial-era fortress as for the grey sand beaches of Bocagrande, "Cartagena of the Indies" is Colombia's number-one tourist draw. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Dec-Apr
Nominated by: AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:15, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Another possible DotM for the Northern Hemisphere winter of 2015-16, and one from a rather neglected region of the world: Latin America.

Nomination
Multicolored street in Cartagena.JPG


  • Very close. The article has many of the same minor and easily fixable problems as Amritsar, minus the copyediting: about half of its listings lack coordinates, it needs a dynamic map, and the lede should be developed beyond a single sentence. Also, given some of the far-in-the-past dates that crop up here and there in the article - for example, $15,800 for a taxi from the airport to El Laguito "as of November 2009" - it might be good to update information where appropriate. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:15, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Not yet — Many sections are pretty short in this article, for example there really has to be more to see in Cartagena. Perhaps there's something from de and pt worth bringing over? Restaurants lack price categories... ϒpsilon (talk) 17:14, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Kyoto[edit]

Place: Kyoto
Blurb: Modernity and history blend in Japan’s capital for over a millenium, which gets particularly colorful during the cherry blossom season (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: March 2016 for cherry blossom in late March-early April/ otherwise Mar-May, Aug or Nov per w:Kyoto#Climate
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 14:22, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
Comment: With the risk of contributing to a situation where over half of next winter’s DotMs are from Asia and/or nominating an article that’s guaranteed to sit on this page for at least a year — here comes Kyoto. Apparently it’s one of the best places for this quintessentially Japanese event (the 2015 cherry blossom is taking place in a few days) so March would be a perfect time to feature it. There’s nothing in the article looking really alarming to me, the biggest problem are some sleep listings that should be moved to appropriate districts. The main issues with the districts themselves are listings lacking coordinates, and some eat sections that need to be “pricified”.

Nomination
Cherry blossoms in Kyoto.jpg


  • Almostϒpsilon (talk) 14:22, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Looks very close. I read through only some of the article with a fine-toothed comb, but I basically agree with you. I don't understand the last introductory sentence in the "Internet and manga cafés" subsection, so that should be dealt with in addition to the "move to district" of the 3 Internet and manga café listings. I'm wondering if the ugly "moved from Kyoto" templates at the bottom of the district articles can be deleted. We don't usually use them when districtifying cities. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:55, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
I think that the point that this sentence is trying to make is that you can't leave luggage at an Internet Cafe during the day. So you should add ¥300-600 to the price for a luggage locker, and maybe also ¥220 for a bus to the cost of an overnight stay in a cafe. For example a reclining seat (cheaper seats are available) in Media Cafe costs ¥2,350, but a dorm bed in the Earthship hostel costs ¥2,500, or a YHA hostel costs ¥3,400 (see Kyoto/Higashiyama). So staying the night in an internet cafe can be the same price as a hostel bed. AlasdairW (talk) 23:00, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Support It is a fairly good article and the districts are in reasonable shape - although it would be good if more places to eat and drink had lat/longs. AlasdairW (talk) 16:27, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Jaipur[edit]

Place: Jaipur
Blurb: Deservedly part of the Golden Triangle, Jaipur boasts a wealth of palaces, forts, temples and monuments. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Oct-May
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 19:12, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Me and Ikan have been polishing up this Guide as a replacement for Amritsar's nomination. I think this article is about ready now. Let's "go to India" next winter! :)

Nomination
Jal Mahal. 2009.jpg


  • Support ϒpsilon (talk) 19:12, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Support for November 2015 (with Fortaleza in October). Thanks to both Ypsi and Ikan for your help with this. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 20:13, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Support — Good work IK. But I'm not entirely satisfied with "BUY" section. As already mentioned in the guide, there're plenty of bazaars and it is always good to have bazaars listed seperately in listings in order to give an overview and classification of bazaars and other shopping areas. One example is Karachi. --Saqib (talk) 20:41, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. I just finished updating prices in the "Eat" section. I agree on "Buy". The article is not perfect, but I submit that it's good enough to feature now. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:09, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Nominations for Off the Beaten Path[edit]

Palmyra (New York)[edit]

Place: Palmyra (New York)
Blurb: The birthplace of the Latter-Day Saints movement (also known as Mormonism), Palmyra is a village steeped in history and enriched by the dynamic presence of the Erie Canal. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: July or June (Hill Cumorah Pageant is mid-July), elsewise anytime between March and October
Nominated by: Powers (talk) 23:36, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
Comment: Blurb needs work. Been working on it off and on since 2012, before the move to the WMF. This is what it looked like when I started. It's definitely off the beaten path, but its attractions include the holiest sites of a significant world religion with more than 15 million adherents.

Nomination
Hill Cumorah Pageant heralds.jpg


  • Support. That's a lot of really good work! I haven't read through the entire article with a fine-toothed comb, but I feel very satisfied that I've read through enough of it to be able to testify to its high quality. A few more photos, if available (perhaps one of the canal?) would be welcome. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:12, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
    Free photos are hard to come by, in part because searching produces false positives with Palmyra. There are some options out there, and I've got a couple of my own I might be able to use; I just haven't added them yet. I appreciate the reminder, though! Powers (talk) 01:20, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
    I've added a couple of photos; feel free to look for some more to add! Powers (talk) 02:22, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. Excellent work, Powers, though I echo Ikan's request for more photos. Let's put this on the Main Page in July 2016, to coincide with the Hill Cumorah pageant (and to avoid running too close to Buffalo's DotM run, which I envision for June 2015). -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 02:12, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
    Small nitpick: in an article with nine other places in the Eat section that aren't national chains, do we really need a listing for Subway? -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 02:16, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
    Need, no, but the list isn't strongly curated, so it seemed odd to omit it just because it's a chain. In small towns like this, without local specialty cuisines, sometimes consistency and predictability is desirable for a traveler over greasy spoons and diners with unknown standards. I'd thought about just mentioning it without giving it a full listing, but I thought its location inside a gas station was best explained in a full listing. Powers (talk) 02:22, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Support - The article looks good, I can't really find anything big to complain about though I do notice there are quite many redlinks in the article. Yeah, and of course some more photos would be great. ϒpsilon (talk) 19:28, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
    Are redlinks a problem for some reason? And there are now six photos in the article; if you find any more you'd like to add feel free, but policy does request we don't go overboard. Powers (talk) 21:25, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
I believe we have enough photos at this point. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 00:02, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
Yes indeed, with the two that Powers added since this discussion started. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:06, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

[unindent] This is another article with 3 votes of support. Any interest from anyone else? Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:06, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

  • Support-I can't imagine there is anything important left out of this article. My only suggestion is to add a summary paragraph under "Do" since all the other sections have one.Godsendlemiwinks (talk) 22:17, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Altai Tavan Bogd National Park[edit]

Place: Altai Tavan Bogd National Park
Blurb: Explore nomad culture, ancient Turkic petroglyphs, and the natural beauty of the Altai mountains where the golden eagles fly. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: “The busy season is from June to October...”
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 18:31, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
Comment: Here’s a good looking article of a true OtBP destination - I believe one of those places other travel guides unjustly neglect. The article looks comprehensive and tidy. By the time it will be featured the required 2+ years has passed since nearby Ölgii was OtBP (that was Jun 2013). Last but definitely not least, the park seems like a fascinating place to visit!

Nomination
Tavan Bogd Mountain.jpg


  • Support. ϒpsilon (talk) 18:31, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. I had forgotten this article had never been featured. The high quality of the article is mostly due to the great work of User:Altaihunters (formerly User:Eaglehunter), who also did such great work on the previously-featured Ölgii article. I'll inform him of this nomination. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:40, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. Magnificent. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 18:16, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
Anyone else want to pass judgment on this article? Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:50, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. I find it flawless. Ibaman (talk) 19:50, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Davenport[edit]

Place: Davenport
Blurb: The largest of the "Quad Cities" of Illinois and Iowa boasts revitalized historic neighborhoods, a buzzing arts scene, and panoramic vistas along the shore of the mighty Mississippi. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Apr-Oct; Aug or after somewhat more preferable due to higher risk of tornadoes in spring and early summer
Nominated by: AndreCarrotflower (talk) 02:06, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
Comment: Summer 2015 is shaping up to be the anti-Summer 2013: rather than more U.S. nominees than we know what to do with, as of now we don't have any American destinations on the docket other than Buffalo. Here's a pretty good one.

Nomination
Davenport.jpg


  • Support as nominator. Needs a lede, but other than that, it looks ready to go. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 02:06, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Almost. The article is beautiful, but there is a well-justified style tag on the "Eat" section that needs to be addressed before this is run. I also had thoughts of nominating Seattle, by the way, but not a soul has responded to my questions at Talk:Seattle#DotM?. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:04, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
Ikan - It looks like Davenport#Eat should be an easy enough fix. The listings themselves are fine; they just need to be reorganized by price point rather than type of cuisine. Assuming there is nothing else wrong with the article, I should be able to get it whipped into shape in no time. As for Seattle, I will take a look at that as well and weigh in on the thread at the talk page, but assuming Seattle falls under DotM rather than OtBP, I doubt there would be room for it on the schedule until 2016. As far as I can tell, summer 2015 is booked solid either with destinations that have been waiting an inordinate amount of time to be featured (Buffalo, Łódź, Manchester), are timed to take advantage of a special event (Vienna), or both (Munich). October 2015 might be a possibility, but I'm not sure that would be an ideal month to feature a destination that's so far north. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 14:04, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
Yes, Seattle would definitely be a DotM. Once the restaurant listings are fixed, I'll be delighted to support running Davenport. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:35, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
Was thinking about nominating some American town or national park for OtBP for the upcoming summer but wasn't sure which one to choose. I also wanted to wait a bit to see how André's interesting Quebecois project is growing — that one plus Iseo and Altai Tavan Bogd National Park would fill up the summer months. Davenport has my support but I would love to see the listings in the Eat section arranged into Budget/Mid range/Splurge before we put the article on the Main Page.
Seattle is definitely a DotM. It's one of the largest cities in that part of North America, has a major airport and I believe welcomes quite many visitors. As of now the DotM schedule is completely full for the upcoming summer and as the weather doesn't seem to be particularly good in October, I foresee that Seattle probably will have to wait until 2016. ϒpsilon (talk) 21:27, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
Ypsi - regarding the Gaspé Peninsula, that's looking more like a summer 2016 feature (mostly because I'm having a hard time learning how to write Usable articles rather than Guide-level ones!) After the New Year, I envision shifting my focus away from Quebec and several offwiki projects I'm working on toward breaking ground on Buffalo/East Side, so we can consider one summer 2015 OtBP slot as yet to be filled. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 23:24, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Progress report: The Eat section has been reformatted in accordance with mos. It looks like there might be some minor copyediting yet to do; would anyone else (especially those who've commented previously: Ikan, Ypsi) care to opine about what else needs to be done and/or reassess their votes? -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 23:08, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
The "Eat" section was the only thing preventing me from offering my support for running this article, so thank you for taking care of that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:58, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
I already voted "support" and didn't have an problems with anything except the Eat section; great that you fixed it! Should leave the "local chains" as a separate section? ϒpsilon (talk) 21:19, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
The article also needs a proper lede. As for the "local chains" section, I have the Buffalo district articles set up that way. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 21:25, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Trondheim[edit]

Place: Trondheim
Blurb: The hub city of central Norway has something for everyone — a Gothic cathedral, beautiful old wooden houses, and lively nightlife — all in the middle of a typical Scandinavian landscape. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: May-Sep (in practice: Aug or Sep 2015?)
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 21:07, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
Comment: Yes we have a ton of European destinations and should maybe not have more of them in 2015 but as I've edited Trondheim extensively during and after two visits to the city 2-3 months back, it was just too tempting to nominate it for OtBP. I think the article looks OK as of now.

Nomination
Trondheim view 1.JPG


  • Support ϒpsilon (talk) 21:07, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Trondheim is one of the nine cities listed on the Norway page. Are we sure it's off the beaten path? Powers (talk) 18:50, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Powers makes a good point; I would argue that this is better suited to DotM. It's not likely to be placed on the Main Page in either category until 2016, so I propose we re-categorize this. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 19:24, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
Well, in that case we should upgrade Turku as well/instead, if we want to be consistent. Turku is not only among the nine cities listed in Finland#Cities, but also in Scandinavia#Cities (which Trondheim is not), has a larger population, functioned as the capital when Finland was a Swedish province and is as least as popular for visitors to Finland as Trondheim is for visitors to Norway.
Let's just slush this nomination. It's silly to have it up here on the nominations page for a year and a half. ϒpsilon (talk) 20:59, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
You're right about Turku. Should we change it to DotM? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:11, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
Turku is fine where it is, IMO. Switching it to DotM would mean either delaying it till 2016 or packing the summer 2015 schedule with yet another European nominee. The question of DotM vs. OtBP is at least partially subjective, and Estonia is a much smaller and less touristed country than Norway. Furthermore, I would oppose slushing Trondheim. It's a perfectly worthy article, and there are many nominees on this page (Palmyra (New York) is one, off the top of my head) that are still going to be here in 2016. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 22:25, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
AndreCarrotflower, Turku is in Finland, not Estonia. Does that change your opinion? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:56, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
Alas, I'm confusing Turku with Tartu. I think a case could be made for Turku as DotM, but as I described above, it would cause a good deal of disruption to the schedule, so I still prefer the status quo. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 23:10, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
Well, the rationale for making Turku OtBP is that despite its size, few people from the English-speaking world travel there. If that's equally true of Trondheim, what then? Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:20, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
I think they're both gray areas and should be placed in the schedule where it's most convenient. For Trondheim it's a toss-up, though my personal preference remains DotM; for Turku OtBP is clearly the path of least resistance. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 00:03, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
Considering how far in advance we're talking about all this, I don't think inertia should keep us from placing these destinations where they belong. Ypsilon certainly makes a good argument for Turku not being off the beaten path. Powers (talk) 21:32, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
This isn't really an issue that will change with time; as none of our current DotM nominees are slush pile material, none of them will be removed from this page except through being featured, and it's ludicrous to make articles wait until 2016 that have already been waiting over a year in most cases. Łódź is another gray-area case that many of us have been clamoring to recategorize; switching it to the OtBP column and Turku to the DotM column would probably be the least disruptive way to rearrange the schedule. Ikan, Ypsi, Powers, others: how do you feel about that? -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 00:46, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
OK, first of all, I wasn't the one who objected to Trondheim being OtBP. My point was that if Trondheim is a DotM, then why wouldn't Turku also be? I have no stake in either of those being OtBP. I do not agree with Lodz being OtBP. Isn't it considerably bigger than either of these other cities? Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:29, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
This is hurting my head.
Okay, let me rephrase the question. On our nominees list we have three European cities – Łódź, Trondheim, and Turku – which, it has been argued, could be featured as either DotM or OtBP. However, for 2015, there is space on the schedule for only one of them to be featured as DotM. Or, if we really want it to be DotM rather than OtBP, we can hold Trondheim off until 2016, which, since it was nominated at the tail end of 2014 and given how long nominees have generally had to wait lately, does not strike me as unreasonable at all. How do we work this?
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 01:54, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
I'm sorry to have a role in giving you a headache. I just want us to base decisions on logically reasonable bases, that's all. I'm OK with however you solve it, except that Łódź should not be OtBP. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:10, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

(indent reset) All those cities could be featured as either DotM or OtBP, I think all score something around five on the ten-point test I suggested on the talk page. As we currently have more nominations for DotM waiting for their month on the Main Page, if new nominees could be featured as OtBP instead then they should.

Above I wanted to say that it'd be dumb to have Trondheim as DoTM while a Turku is OtBP. My preference would be having both Trondheim and Turku as OtBP — that's what I've nominated them for after all.

Turku is already in the schedule and I believe there is still room for Trondheim in the September OtBP slot. On the other hand if you think we have too many European destinations in the upcoming summer, just say it, I fully understand (in that case, let's just slush or postpone Trondheim). Concerning Lodz, I'm fine with having it as DotM per all those discussions above. ϒpsilon (talk) 05:37, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

There is indeed still one summer OtBP slot up for grabs, and while we currently have a glut of European DotM candidates, the number of European OtBP candidates on the docket is much more manageable (only Iseo and Turku as of now). I'm not opposed to featuring Trondheim as OtBP in summer 2015 so ,long as no superior candidates come along. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:31, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
Again, though, if Trondheim and Turku are really off the beaten path, why are they listed at such high levels in "Cities" sections? Whether a destination is a DotM or OtBP should be based on the qualities of the destination, not on scheduling convenience. Powers (talk) 16:26, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
From w:Trondheim: "With a population of 181,513 (October 1, 2013), it is the third most populous municipality in Norway." From w:Turku: "As of 30 September 2014, the population of Turku was 183,811, making it the sixth largest city in Finland." The fact that a country has small cities, other than the capital, doesn't automatically entitle them to be DotM. Unless there is a great deal of tourism to these cities, it's quite appropriate for them both to be OtBP. Conversely, in a country that has dozens of cities with a population of over 1 million, such as China or India, the mere fact that a city has a population of over 1 million shouldn't guarantee that it would be a DotM: That would also depend on how well-known and well-touristed the city is, and how important it is as, for example, a provincial capital or major center of commerce and/or education. I think it's fine for both Trondheim and Turku to be OtBP. What would be a little stranger to me would be for both of them to be DotM, and stranger still would be for Trondheim to be DotM while Turku is run as OtBP. That might be justifiable, partly on the basis that Trondheim is the 3rd-largest city in Norway, whereas Turku is the 6th-largest city in Finland, but also on the historic basis of Trondheim being the former capital of Norway, but since Turku is Finland's oldest city and seems to be similarly full of interesting things to see and do, that criterion is blunted. I think that the best way to treat both these smallish cities is as super-interesting OtBPs. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:52, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
I'm not sure why you're focusing on the population numbers; I didn't mention population at all in my question. I should also point out that tourism isn't the only reason someone would visit a destination. My question revolves around this issue: If Turku is one of the nine most important destinations in all of Scandinavia, but it's off the beaten path, that implies that there are no more than eight possible DotM cities in all of Scandinavia, while there are hundreds of destinations that would have to be considered OtBP because they're less important than Turku. Similar reasoning applies to Trondheim and Norway. I think that kind of imbalance between the two categories is far too extreme. Of course there will always be more OtBP-eligible destinations than DotM-eligible in any given geographic region, but it seems like this division goes too far. Powers (talk) 00:54, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
I focus on population because it makes both of these non-obvious DotM candidates. I agree that tourism isn't the only reason to travel. So are these cities really big draws for international trade, nowadays? How about for international students? All those could be salient criteria. Also, how populous are their metropolitan areas? That could be salient, too. All that said, the possibility that the 7th, 8th- or 9th-most important destination in Scandinavia might be off the beaten path for international passenger traffic is hardly a revolutionary idea, in my opinion. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:53, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
I think that, with the exception of extremely clear cases like Manhattan or London (or Childs or Wake Island), anyone who argues vehemently that a destination absolutely has to be a DotM rather than an OtBP, or vice versa, is probably taking the whole thing a bit too seriously. Notwithstanding recent efforts to establish guidelines as to how to identify DotMs as opposed to OtBPs, the decision-making process has a great deal of flexibility built into it, and that's by design. I see absolutely no reason why scheduling factors can't play into the decision of where to place gray-area cases like Trondheim and Turku - as far as I can tell, the system was set up for maximum convenience in that regard. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 02:04, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
Indeed. Unlike e.g Italy or France, Scandinavia has very few destinations that would absolutely have to be featured as DotM and under no circumstances ever as OtBP — those would be the capitals plus Gothenburg and maybe Malmö. About 2-4 other destinations from each Scandinavian country can be featured as either DotM or OtBP (including Turku and Trondheim). As of now we have less OtBP than DotM candidates, therefore it's better to feature Turku and Trondheim as OtBPs. ϒpsilon (talk) 10:55, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
But that still doesn't address the issue I raised, which is that assigning these destinations as OtBP implies that there are several orders of magnitude fewer DotM destinations in any given geographic area than OtBP destinations. Powers (talk) 20:54, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
Au contraire, ϒpsilon addresses that issue squarely, directly above your latest reply. You might not like what he has to say, but if you think he didn't address that issue, reread his post. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:07, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
I apologize, but I'm not seeing it. He's asserting exactly what I'm questioning, but not with any justification or solution to the problem it raises. Powers (talk) 01:03, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
What's the problem that needs solving? I guess you disagree that Italy or France has a larger number of obvious DotM candidates than Scandinavia, but that doesn't mean other people consider that a problem or anything to be solved, just a statement of the way things are, as they see it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:24, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
My earlier comment, as well, contained an alternate answer to Powers' question, namely "does it really matter that much?" The world isn't going to come to an end if we figure Trondheim and Turku as larger than average OtBPs rather than smaller than average DotMs; in fact, I just now briefly skimmed Previously Off the beaten path and found several cities that should probably have gone in the DotM column (Tampere, Niamey, Petra). -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 03:07, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
My concern is running out of DotM candidates by limiting the pool. Powers (talk) 13:24, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
That seems like a remote problem. Don't forget that London/Hampstead is also ready to go and currently in the Slush Pile only because its feature was postponed in favor of the City of London article for the Wikimedia conference. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:58, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
It's not as remote as you think; our attempts at greater geographical diversity will be made much easier if we have a larger pool to choose from for DotMs. And there's always the possibility we decide to move up to weekly features in the future. Also, if Hampstead is ready to go, it shouldn't have been slushed. Powers (talk) 19:36, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
If there might be a problem with a limited pool of articles, then we definitely shouldn't move to weekly features. Hampstead was slushed because it would have had to wait so long to be featured. I think I can unslush it, though, and maybe now's the time to do so. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:41, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
I'm actually not sure if it's time to unslush that nomination: AndreCarrotflower, it was judged that no part of London could be featured again until 2016. Should we wait longer before unslushing London/Hampstead? Also, that's another European OtBP nomination, not a DotM. Would that present a scheduling problem at this point? Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:45, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

(indent reset) I'm not worried about running out of DotM candidates, we would run out of OtBP candidates before that would happen. Our guides are mostly written by people who have some familiarity with the place. Therefore, places like Manhattan have plenty of content and usually at least Usable status, while very little is written about destinations that are OtBP (by definition, few of our contributors have been there). Sure, for each DoTM candidate we have at least ten articles for destinations off the beaten path... but too many of those consist of "X is a town in Y", a restaurant without an address and the default banner on top of it all. Of course, we do have good OtBP articles too — just look at Altai Tavan Bogd National Park for example. Browsing through Category:Guide articles from A to Z a few months back I found tens of good looking articles that could be nominated right away or need just a little formatting. So, I don't think we risk running out of destination article candidates anytime soon (though it'd be nice to have some more travel topics for FTT).

Concerning Hampstead, I too thought we had a rule that there has to be two years between articles located in the same city? In that case it's guaranteed that Hampstead won't be on the Main page before late spring 2016, so I'm not sure if it's necessary to bring the Hampstead back to this page yet. ϒpsilon (talk) 22:15, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Powers: In slushing London/Hampstead, I was following the precedent set by Jan when he slushed Buffalo the first time around: the article was not slushed because it was unfeatureable as it was, but because it had lingered on the nominees page too long. You can see the play-by-play of the discussion to slush Hampstead at Wikivoyage talk:Destination of the month candidates#Hampstead, again, and I might also note that you yourself seemed to be in favor of doing so on November 15th of last year.
Ikan, I don't know what good it would do unslushing Hampstead now if the goal is to keep nominees from lingering in limbo too long. The purpose of placing nominee destinations on the dotm page is to attract support or oppose votes, no? By the time Hampstead was slushed, there was already a pretty ironclad consensus that it was worthy to be placed on the Main Page, so any further support votes would be redundant, and in that light its presence on the nominees page eighteen months or more ahead of its featuring seems fairly pointless. (And, in anticipation of one possible rebuttal: the reason Buffalo was unslushed so far in advance of its projected feature date was because, unlike Hampstead, the Buffalo article had been altered so radically since it was slushed that any yea or nay votes on its previous nomination were effectively meaningless.)
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 22:22, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, I think you're right. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:25, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
Hmm, good point. Articles that languish here risk becoming out of date, which is why I agreed with slushing Hampstead. I'd forgotten about the 2-year moratorium on districts of the same city. Powers (talk) 00:50, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. Lots of photos, copious and properly formatted listings in all sections, well-written. An exemplary article. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 22:28, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. I just looked through the article, tweaking a few wordings. I've never been to Norway and now want to visit Trondheim! Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:33, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. Beautiful, well-tweaked article. I have just looked for something to add and/or correct but it's so complete. It deserves to be featured. Ibaman (talk) 19:54, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Grand-Bassam[edit]

Place: Grand-Bassam
Blurb: The old colonial capital of Côte d'Ivoire is today a quiet beach town steeped in well-preserved turn-of-the-century charm. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Aiming for late autumn 2015, about when our current stock of OtBP candidates will be depleted. Otherwise Jul-Aug or Nov-Mar per [1]
Nominated by: AndreCarrotflower (talk) 06:00, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Something of a rare find: a feature-worthy (or nearly so; see below) African destination for the Main Page.

Nomination
Grand-Bassam-Plage.jpg


  • Almost. Grand-Bassam is not quite ready for prime time yet, but not much work is needed to get it there: expand the blurbs in "See" and "Do" a little bit, add another restaurant or two to "Eat" and another bar or two to "Drink", and pick a few prominent nearby cities to add to "Go next". There's already a nice static map. This article has a ton of potential and I'd really love to see it whipped into shape. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 06:00, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
Do you know the town? We need people who know the town to check on the accuracy of the content. I recall when we considered featuring Dakar and finally realized that not a single person passing judgment on the article had ever been there, whereupon the article was slushed. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:44, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Almost — This has been one of the African articles on my list of potential OtBP candidates, but I've been hesitant of nominating Grand-Bassam as the Ebola epidemic is just a few hundred kilometers away. The article itself looks OK to me, though — given the town's size, I don't think there's much in the town that isn't already in the article. It would be very good to have someone who knows Grand Bassam to check it (otherwise it would suffice to use Google to check that the businesses are still operating but I've noticed that's not as easy in Africa as elsewhere). User:JamesA has made the map and according to the article history written some of the content so he might be the person to ask. ϒpsilon (talk) 07:54, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Regarding worries about the article's content: I think that's an unrealistically high standard to hold our feature articles to, and to be perfectly honest I wonder why we are so concerned with confirming the accuracy of African articles yet are willing to have faith that all the listed destinations in, let's say, Dumaguete or Ushuaia still exist with the same opening hours, telephone number, etc. My suggestion was that we add additional listings to "Eat" and "Drink" that we find on Google or other such sources. No, that's not foolproof, but it's no less foolproof to blindly assume that information in any given article which may have been written months or years ago remains accurate. That's a risk that's inherent in using any travel guide. If we were to limit all our features to places that one of our current regulars is able to personally visit to check on the accuracy of the content - or even to places that any of us current regulars have ever been before - we would no doubt have to slush most of our current nominees. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 14:15, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
I'm not sure about Ushuaia, but we currently have a regular in Dumaguete. I think part of the issue was that even in a city as big and important as Dakar, a lot of information wasn't reliably confirmable online. What's the situation with Grand Bassam? Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:36, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
My point is that reliable online confirmability of an article's contents should not be a prerequisite for it to be featured on the Main Page. If it were, then we'd have to slush the vast majority of our current nominees. If we slushed Dakar on that basis, we were wrong to do so. On a regular basis, in Africa equally as the rest of the world, businesses close and the situation on the ground changes, and therefore no travel guide is in a position to guarantee the accuracy of its contents. Particularly not this one, which has probably the most ambitious goals of any travel guide yet a scant population of a few dozen regular contributors.
That being the case, the double standard we're applying now to Grand-Bassam, and that we previously applied to Dakar, is troublesome as it effectively negates our efforts for geographical diversity among Main Page featured articles. It seems like on the one hand, we want more Main Page coverage for regions like Africa, yet on the other hand we seem to be extra suspicious of nominees from those regions and subject them to scrutiny above and beyond what we would for, say, a European or North American destination. I say if there's a double standard, it should be in favor of articles from underrepresented regions.
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 16:21, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
I mostly agree with Andre. If articles would have to be absolutely perfect we would probably not have any candidates here (hey, this isn't the starnom after all). I would like to see at least one DotM and one OtBP from each of the six inhabited continents every year.
Also, there's really nothing wrong with finding and verifying information by using Google if first hand information (which we of course prefer) is not available. When translating articles from other language versions I usually google the establishment, to find the coordinates if for no other reason. But the problem is when you for half of the places actually don't find any information at all online (or they're just mentioned in some travel forum thread from 2007). I don't know if this is the case with Grand Bassam. ϒpsilon (talk) 21:25, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
AndreCarrotflower, if you really think Dakar was incorrectly slushed, renominate the article for the city, but have a look at the discussion in Wikivoyage:Destination of the month candidates/Slush pile#Dakar first. I think valid questions were brought up; note my analogy with Berne, which I had previously nominated for a feature, as the article looked good to me because I didn't know enough to judge it properly, having never been there (discussion at Wikivoyage:Destination of the month candidates/Slush pile#Berne). Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:25, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
Inasmuch as similar issues are at play in the Dakar article as with Grand-Bassam, Dakar strikes me as a much more extreme example. As near as I can figure out from reading the slushed nomination discussion, ChubbyWimbus added the vast majority of the listings in Dakar's "See" and "Do" section using information gleaned from secondary sources, without ever having set foot in the city. I would say that I might have some reservations about supporting a nominee under those circumstances (though I wouldn't rule it out, either) unless we were able to ascertain the accuracy of any information gleaned from secondary sources with a pretty sturdy degree of certainty.
On the other hand, the Grand-Bassam article already has most of the information necessary to be feature-worthy; the only thing we need to do is pad it a little. If we add one or two restaurants and bars to an "Eat" and "Drink" section that already has several entries, and if we expand the blurbs for some of the listings in "See" and "Do" (with no more than a few additional facts for each one, or maybe just the same content that's already there reworded in a more in-depth way), we're already most of the way there. And as opposed to Dakar, the majority of the content in the souped-up version of Grand-Bassam would still be the presumed-accurate preexisting material.
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 04:54, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
Good. Please note that I haven't stated any words of opposition to featuring this article; I just asked what I considered an important question. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:14, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

(indent reset) Support, because the article ain't going to get better than this. I've added some listings and info about the sights but it really isn't easy finding information about the town online as home pages are as common among businesses as it was in western countries 20 years ago. That additional nightclub in drink, for example, is one of three drinking establishments I found using the Mapnik layer of our dynamic map and tried to see if they still existed using Google. The others weren't really mentioned anywhere (only on sites with no indication of which year they were added!). Épilogue was mentioned in a travel blog post from April 2014... --ϒpsilon (talk) 19:42, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

  • I'll support this, too, though I do have one question: There is a photo of Maison des Artistes, but there is no listing for it. Should there be? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:23, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
Now there is! :) ϒpsilon (talk) 18:28, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment - I did draw up the map and write up a lot of the content. Although I must admit, I've never visited the place and am no expert. I just saw what was a very bare article and wanted to improve it to something respectable. All the content I added was based off available mapping data and info online. James Atalk 10:06, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment - Thank you Ypsilon, once again, for helping out. Before I'm ready to say I'm satisfied with the article as a potential feature, I'm going to see if I can't find more information about the listings in the "See" section. It seems like the blurbs should be longer. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 18:51, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Hyden[edit]

Place: Hyden
Blurb: In the Austral spring the wild flowers make this sleepy little town with its more famous land formations more colourful. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Something for October's OtBP slot?
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 11:43, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
Comment: An interesting little town in the Land Down Under. Probably there isn't anything in the town that wouldn't already be in the article so...let's feature it!

Nomination
Wave Rock, 2012.JPG
  • Support — not sure if POI markers/dynamic map is needed for such a small place but if needed it can be added in ten minutes. --ϒpsilon (talk) 11:43, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Almost. I don't know the town (I have yet to visit Australia), but it seems like a great place to visit and this seems like a beautiful article. I'll vote for it when there's a map that shows where the attractions, including those 18 km out of town, are. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:17, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
Fixed. Thank you, Google. :) ϒpsilon (talk) 14:06, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:43, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
  • I was just thinking it had been awhile since we featured any Aussie destinations on the Main Page, and had actually been poking around to see if I could find any suitable candidates for October 2015's DotM (Sydney came closest; the only thing keeping it from being promoted from Usable to Guide are the district articles, but getting all of them up to Usable would be a massive undertaking). Anyhow, with the map issue that Ikan pointed out having been solved, I can't see anything that stands in the way of my support. As you said, Ypsi, the article is short, but necessarily so, and everything noteworthy seems to be included. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:49, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, it would take a while to get Sydney up to DotM standard. Right now we have one other Australian article we could featured right away — Lady Elliot Island (OtBP). Alice Springs (OtBP) or Hobart (DotM/OtBP?) need some work but not as much as Sydney. --ϒpsilon (talk) 16:09, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
Ypsi - Hobart does look like a good DotM contender. But perhaps a better way to go would be Auckland, which is already at Guide status and was a nominee some time ago. Its nomination was ultimately slushed because of lack of a dynamic map and some prominent attractions that were not included in the article, but more and more I'm thinking that after I'm done with the districtification process for Buffalo (the last district article should be finished well ahead of June 2015, when it's scheduled to begin its run on the Main Page), I should maybe start touching up Auckland with a view to renominating it for DotM in the late austral summer or the early austral autumn (February or March 2016). Even assuming we do run Hyden as OtBP in October 2015, that would still be plenty of time between feature articles in that part of the world, especially because Australia and New Zealand are separate countries. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 20:39, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
Australia and NZ are indeed separate countries just like e.g. USA and Canada, so there's perhaps room for a New Zealandian travel topic as October's or November's FTT? (If it's a bad idea, let's not nominate it). ϒpsilon (talk) 12:19, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Some antipodean DotM contenders would be good & I agree several mentioned above are close, but meanwhile let's go ahead with this for OtBP. If we end up with too many Oz/NZ destinations & have to adjust schedule later, that is OK. Pashley (talk) 00:47, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Almost. It is a good article, particularly on the things to see, but it would benefit from a little more about the town to put this in context (an Understand section?). I expect that a lot of readers coming here from the main page aren't going to be familiar with the Wheatbelt. Unfortunately commons doesn't have any photos of the town, but WP does give the population, and this climate data is available. AlasdairW (talk) 23:10, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
Yes Doneϒpsilon (talk) 21:54, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
Thanks - I now support it. AlasdairW (talk) 23:19, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Taxila[edit]

Place: Taxila
Blurb: A group of archaeological sites, once a great centre of Greek-influenced Buddhist culture and Silk Road trade, today is a UNESCO World Heritage Site and one of Pakistan's main tourist destinations. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Oct-Jun per [2], so Nov or Dec 2015?
Nominated by: Saqib (talk) 21:25, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Taxila is an important archaeological sites of South Asia and a UNESCO World Heritage Site.

Nomination
SirkapJainTemple.JPG
  • Support — Surprise? I'm back with Taxila again which was slushed not so long ago. I was able to work on it a bit. In my opinion, the guide is ready. YPSI and Julias raised the issues that while Taxila is major town, only few eat listings are provided and article is mostly focussing on archaeology sites. I've provided some more eateries that are worth to eat-in, and still there're many out there but they are just basic. I don't know how to describe a typical normal eating place so instead of mentioning them as listings, I've just mentioned all of them in as one liner. Other than ruins rather, there is nothing worth to see in modern Taxila. Yes, there're some Hindu temples but they are more like a religios site rather than a attraction. Please take into account, I'm not nominating it for star status and Taxila is not as big as many of you may think. 'm pretty sure the guide will serve the traveller best. --Saqib (talk) 21:25, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
  • I'm not 100% ready to support a feature yet; I find the one line at the end of "Eat" frustrating because there's no indication of where the named hygienic eateries are. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:45, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Also, can a suitable caption be added to the uncaptioned photo, please? Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:48, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
IK: I mentioned the location. Taxila is not a big town with not so many good eateries. I know you' and others may still want to see more eat/drink listings but pleae be note that Taxila is a town with not more than a hundred thousands residents and given that a visitor is not going to spend more than a night in Taxila, the provided eat listings should be sufficient. Anyways, with that being said, I will continue to improve the guide as time passes. --Saqib (talk) 13:23, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
User:Saqib, this is the part I'm talking about:
A few other establishments that serve basic but hygienic Pakistani food are Sherazi Restaurant, Dream Land, Valley Food, Krispo fast food, Hang In and Kabli Hotel. Most of them are on Khanpur Rd and near the station.
You say where most of them are, but are these restaurants in particular on Khanpur Rd and near the station? If so, maybe that's specific enough, but right now, it isn't clear where these places are. I don't insist on more listings, just a clarification of where these are. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:43, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
  • I might as well support the article. If the eat section cannot be expanded, I guess we just have to leave it as it is. I can understand that if there are just basic eateries very similar to each other, there is not much to write about each of them (this is usually the case in smaller countryside towns everywhere in the world). But maybe there could be POI markers showing where the clusters of eateries are located. After all, our guides are aimed at people who have never been to the destination and they should not need to consult other travel guides.
Which months are suitable for featuring Taxila? Climate-data would suggest October to June. This would mean November or December 2015. ϒpsilon (talk) 13:30, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Right YPSI. POI markers could be added. I will insert them in a while. As for featuring time, offcourse winter time would be recommended so that visitors can walk as well. Between October and March would be perfect. BTW it is unfortunate for Pakistan that none other than LP ever wrote a comprehensive travel guide on Pakistan. And It may sound silly to say that our Taxila guide is far better than theirs. They mention only 2 hotels but no eat/drink place so I don't think a visitor will have to or able to consult any other guide. --Saqib (talk) 13:46, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
  • My somewhat minor concerns having been dealt with, I am now happy to support featuring this article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:13, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Percé[edit]

Place: Percé
Blurb: This touristy town at the tip of the Gaspé Peninsula features a truly awesome arch-shaped offshore rock formation, among other attractions. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: June-September
Nominated by: Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:14, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Yet another great job by User:AndreCarrotflower!

Nomination
Percé vu du mont Sainte-Anne.jpg


  • Support by nominator. I'd be happy with a few more photos, if possible, but otherwise, with the caveat that I don't know the town myself, I think all of you will agree that this is a beautiful article that's well worth our featuring. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:14, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
It's of course a fantastic article and as such I've no problems supporting it. But... I thought Andre planned to make the whole of Gaspé Peninsula OtBP at some point (summer 2016?). ϒpsilon (talk) 11:59, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
ϒpsilon is correct - and as all our OtBP slots for summer 2015 are filled, my Plan A was to ramp up work on Gaspé Peninsula's linked cities and subregions in order to get it to Guide status, and thus featureable for summer 2016. However, there are of course no guarantees about that (when I began districtfying Buffalo in November 2012 I never imagined I would still be working on it in 2015!), so I will give this nominee my tentative support in case things don't pan out with Gaspé Peninsula. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 12:28, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Dilijan[edit]

Place: Dilijan
Blurb: This walkable Armenian town is nicknamed "Armenian Switzerland" but has a character all its own. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: The lede says that the town has "mild climate", but since skiing isn't listed under "Do", I suppose we should avoid winter months and favor May-October
Nominated by: Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:45, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Candidly, I'd never heard of this town until I clicked the article from Category:Guide articles, but it looks like an excellent article about a worthwhile place.

Nomination
Haghartsin-raffi kojian-DCP 4210.JPG


  • Support by nominator. This is a picturesque place and the article is nicely listified. Some prices may need to be updated, but I don't see anything that would otherwise prevent us from featuring this article tomorrow, which we won't do in any case. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:45, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Close The issues are not great, but I think these need dealt with: the Geological Museum should at least have a little description, the "Do" section needs to expand on each of the topics. The current bulleted list is as helpful as empty space, and it needs some "Go Next" listings. Also, is it misrepresented as a "resort town"? That is the first thing the article says about it, but none of the pictures, sites, or activities suggest that it's actually a resort town. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 14:02, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
I agree with CW, they are easily fixed but they do have to be fixed before the article goes on the main page. However, as Armenian phrasebook likely will go on the main page sometimes in the fall, and the OtBP section is otherwise practically fully booked for the rest of 2015, it will take some time before Dilijan will get featured. Per Climate-data, I would say the time to feature is from May to October. --ϒpsilon (talk) 19:07, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
I did my best, as someone who has no personal knowledge of the town, to address your concerns. I have no idea whether it is being misrepresented as a resort town. I think I'll post something about climate. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:04, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
I created a climate chart and also wrote about the climate. See what you think of the article now. Reviews of the Geological Museum and Art Gallery of Dilijan on Tripadvisor were generally positive, but there were only 4 of them. I have no idea how much I'd like the museum if I visited; some of the art on display that I found pictures of wouldn't interest me. So I thought it was probably best to quote (with quotation marks and citation) and paraphrase from what the museum says about itself, and let travellers choose whether to go based on that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:47, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Close. ChubbyWimbus' point regarding the "Do" section is well taken, and is also arguably applicable to "Buy" and "Drink" too. Also, we need coordinates in the "Eat" section. And finally, I understand there's a school of thought that holds it to be acceptable to configure dynamic maps such that some outlying POIs are left off the margins, but I think 8 out of 11 POIs invisible in the default settings is stretching it way too far. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:02, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
Well, unless someone who actually knows the town would like to fill in more information, we'll probably have to slush the nomination. I do have a question about the map, though. I have to reduce the zoom level to 11 to show all but one of the "Nearby" attractions (#10), but then the town is just an orange plus sign. From the viewpoint of seeing the numbers of listings, it's not so bad, because the plus sign is hiding only #2 and #3, so would you recommend that zoom level, even though the result is a regional map? Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:54, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
I think it's probably OK to make the "Eat" section "Eat and drink", given the remark in the "Drink" section. I'm going to do that now. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:58, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
I zoomed the map in and recentered it well to the west of town, but that might need to be revisited if the Eat & drink and Sleep sections are subjected to thorough Geo. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:59, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Ein Gedi[edit]

Place: Ein Gedi
Blurb: This beautiful oasis on the Israeli side of the Dead Sea Valley is a wonderful place to hike. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: November-April
Nominated by: Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:04, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
Comment: This is another great article that's largely the work of User:Tamuz.

Nomination
Einggedi112 (2).JPG


  • Support by nominator. I'll be interested to see what kind of feedback this nomination gets. I think this article is wonderful, and the detailed descriptions of the hikes are extremely user-friendly for the traveller. I would be very disappointed if someone felt that they were "personal itineraries", and therefore somehow in violation of site policy. Instead, they look like good suggested hikes that are effectively "Do" listings (sublistings, if you prefer), and are printable and detailed enough to be really useful to visitors. This article is very well-written and doesn't obviously lack for anything I can think of, especially now that I added a climate chart. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:04, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. To Ikan's comments above, content in a destination article that could arguably be described as a "personal itinerary", I think, is an entirely different animal than personal itineraries as articles in and of themselves. That being the case, the article is well-written but, apart from the hikes, seems awfully short; are we sure there isn't anything more that can be said about the place? -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:31, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment — If the routes are marked trails, I wouldn't say they are personal itineraries. Also, I would like to know if the latter part of the article could be expanded before giving the article my support. Another thing, there's an article I would like to nominate for FTT, namely Hiking and backpacking in Israel by the same author. I tried to contact Tamuz about that article (because despite being at Guide status, the article still has some empty headings in the end) but he hasn't replied. If that article would get featured sometime in early 2016, I guess there would need to be a few months between it and this one. ϒpsilon (talk) 17:01, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
User:Tamuz hasn't replied to messages on his user talk page recently. Perhaps he may check after the Passover holiday, but we should be prepared for the possibility that he does not. User:ויקיג'אנקי, do you happen to be familiar with Ein Gedi? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:05, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
Tamuz used to be very active on Hebvoy when the website launched. He is a tour guide and has a lot of knowledge about this stuff. Unfortunately he stopped being active sometime around mid 2013. ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 22:33, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
Hi. Indeed I haven't had much time to contribute in the past year. I'll find time this week or the next, to expand and improve the Ein Gedi article for this nomination. Thanks for your support and appreciation :) Tamuz (talk) 08:50, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
Terrific! No huge rush, because we probably can't feature the article till next year, but I'm very happy to see you resurface. :-) Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:46, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Hilo[edit]

Place: Hilo
Blurb: Typically Hawaiian but little touristed, in Hilo surfing, snorkeling and volcanoes aren't far away. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Jan-Feb (only months with less than 20 rainy days)
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 15:00, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Let's put on the Aloha shirts next winter and have our first Main Page feature from Hawaii. I found the article a few months back and have checked it through.

Nomination
HiloPark.JPG
  • Support ϒpsilon (talk) 15:00, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Support (see below). You beat me to the punch, Ypsi; I was planning on nominating this article after I got done with Buffalo/East Side and Historic Churches of Buffalo's East Side. If I remember correctly, I had come across a few minor issues with the article when I looked it over before, but it seems fine now so you must have fixed them. Anyhow, this would be a nice feature for winter 2015-16. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:38, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
Also Ikan suggested nominating it :) ϒpsilon (talk) 15:49, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, it's a worthy article to nominate, but before I support the nomination: Have all the listings been checked and updated? Do we have current room rates in the hotel listings, for example? Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:04, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Not yet. The more I look at this article, the more little things I find wrong with it. First off, though all the listings have geo coordinates, there's no mapframe. Secondly, though I do realize the vast majority of visitors to Hawaii arrive by plane, a single two-sentence listing of the local airport does not in any way suffice for a "Get in" section. "Get around" very much needs to be expanded too. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 19:18, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
And "Climate" needs to be either expanded or folded into the parent "Understand" section. No use in splitting something off to a different section if it's only one sentence long. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 19:20, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
I made some changes to Understand and surrounding sections, also adding a map. The uppermost part of the article looks weird, but I'm not able to get it look any better. Removing the lead picture would make the article look boring.
Concerning transport, well, I don't know much about Hilo, the Big Island or Hawaii. But at least when looking at Big Island#Get in (and around) it doesn't seem like there are any other alternatives for getting in and around than those already mentioned.
When adding coordinates, I of course removed listings where the business neither showed up in maps.google.com nor when googling it. Also, if I noticed something to be incorrect (address etc.) I fixed it. I've not checked the room rates for hotels, nor other prices. ϒpsilon (talk) 11:26, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
I think we should check and update rates as appropriate before we run the article. AndreCarrotflower, what else do you think should be in "Get in"? I guess information about roads. I suppose a few people will go to Hilo from Kona, but not too many. We can and probably should add that information, but if you are elsewhere on the island, I don't think it'll be hard for you to find out how to drive to Hilo. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:02, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Nominations for Featured travel topic[edit]

Hiking in the Nordic countries[edit]

Place: Hiking in the Nordic countries
Blurb: From the barren Norwegian mountains to the archipelagoes of the Baltic Sea, Scandinavia offers some of the largest wilderness areas of Europe. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Any — preferably Northern Hemisphere summer but other seasons are fine too
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 12:37, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
Comment: LPfi and Erik have made a comprehensive and tidy article — at least a couch potato like myself :) can't come to think of anything missing. Who knows, maybe we even have a future Star article right here?

Nomination
Kalottireitti Meekonjärvellä.JPG
  • Support. This is a very impressive article. It seems quite unlikely to me that any important substantive edits are needed or even appropriate in this article; at most, it may benefit from a bit more copy editing (I did a bit just now). Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:51, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Three votes of support. Anyone else? User:Erik den yngre, would you like to vote? Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:13, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

I can vote support, although I am bit biased.... --Erik den yngre (talk) 13:54, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. Very comprehensive, great job. Danapit (talk) 16:48, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. A good article, which is making me think about a trip to Norway sometime in the future. A minor point is that mushrooms seem to be mentioned a lot, when I am not sure that we are able to properly cover the safety issues. AlasdairW (talk) 23:51, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
    I cut down a little on the mushroom text in Do; Eat should now have the complete discussion. I think mentioning mushroom is justified, as mushroom is one of the important food items you get on the trail (beside berries and fish), and a reason for many locals to go on forest trips. With due caution, keeping to a few safe species, I think also a casual visitor can eat mushroom safely. As you say, we cannot cover the safety issues, but I think mentioning the worst culprits (the four poisonous mushrooms mentioned account for nearly all critical incidents), hinting on some relatively secure options and warning about eating mushroom at random is better than not covering the subject at all. I think the section is balanced (I did my best), but I am happy for any further comments. --LPfi (talk) 09:44, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
I thought it was important to make clear that the photo of mushrooms in the article was actually of poisonous deadly webcaps, not chanterelles, and as a result, I also added a photo of chanterelles by way of contrast. I will work on a disclaimer. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:31, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Altitude sickness[edit]

Place: Altitude sickness
Blurb: When your travel plans take you to destinations at high altitudes, you'll notice some changes to your body and health. Consult this guide and stay safe! (blurb needs work) (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Any, but perhaps leave some time between this one and Sunburn and sun protection—they're both similar topics, being about medical issues
Nominated by: AndreCarrotflower (talk) 00:29, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
Comment: We're always looking for new FTT nominees, right? I've had my eye on this one for a while.

Nomination
Altitude Sickness Warning.jpg


  • Support. The article could use a few more pictures, but otherwise it looks like it's good to go. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 00:29, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Support — I agree, some more photos would be great to have. As sunburn is featured in June, I would prefer not to feature this one before maybe Oct or Nov. ϒpsilon (talk) 10:48, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
I have trouble judging this type of article. Could we please have some physicians or other experts weigh in on this article and the Sunburn and sun protection article? Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:12, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
So, now there's at least some more pictures. When nominating Sunburn I asked our Travel Doc to have a look at the article but apparently he doesn't check WV frequently any longer. ϒpsilon (talk) 21:13, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
Is there a doctor (or biochemist, etc.) in the house? Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:19, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
Bump. Anyone? To check and comment on this article and #Sunburn and sun protection above? Any fake doctors, then? I've taken part in a basic first aid course but that was over ten years ago. :P
Personally I don't think it's impossible to feature those articles without a professional looking through them, but it would certainly be useful! ϒpsilon (talk) 18:45, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Frequent flyer programmes[edit]

Place: Frequent flyer programmes
Blurb: To some flyers great value, to some just another expense. Before joining one of these, it pays to learn about their benefits and drawbacks — read more here! (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Any
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 11:09, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
Comment: User:PrinceGloria has made a great work on this one and I would love to see this article featured on the Main page.

Nomination
Ffpcard of jpn's airlines.jpg
  • Support ϒpsilon (talk) 11:09, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Thank you for the kind words - do comment on how it can be improved further. I certainly see there is a fair amount of verbosity that could be cut down to make for better readability, so I guess anybody with a moment for some copyediting could make a very worthwhile contribution. I guess we could also use more incoming links. I would also propose to use the pic used for the banner for the main page, not the JAL one. PrinceGloria (talk) 13:49, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
I don't know very much about frequent flyer programs, never having been a member. There's also nothing wrong about the article's language or layout as far as I can see. BTW the grainy photo for the article banner is taken of a friend's membership cards and I don't believe it would make a very successful Main page banner. Luckily, André has so far created great Main page banners for both destinations and topics. ϒpsilon (talk) 17:33, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
I skipped through the article. Does it mention anywhere that, at least in the US, it is solely up to the airline whether to arbitrarily change the number of miles per award or even suddenly end the program, and that members of frequent flyer programs actually have no rights whatsoever, per a US Supreme Court decision stating that this is not a contract between the cardholder and the airline, but merely a one-way promotion? I think that's actually relevant information for travelers. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:11, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
I think I should clarify that I don't support running this article unless and until it covers this in a clear way. It's also important for it to be stipulated whether there are countries that have different laws in regard to airline behavior in regard to frequent flyer programs. Once this important topic is covered satisfactorily, I will support running this article, as it's otherwise good. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:44, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
Anyone around who is member of an frequent flyer program? Preferably of an American airline? ϒpsilon (talk) 12:59, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
IK: Is this something to ask about? It is typical that airliners reserves all rights at all times to make any changes to their frequent flyer programmes and conditions, miles, benefits offered, at their sole discretion. --Saqib (talk) 17:54, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
Jesus Maria Joseph, now that's a storm in a teacup. I have just quickly added a verbose para addressing the above, which is still shorter than this discussion. Whatever happened to plunge forward? At any rate, this is not FlyerTalk (which is run by IB, BTW), it is Wikivoyage, I think it is enough to say that. Anybody to whom the changes that spurned the Supreme Court subpoena would matter at all would be far more advanced that the ones our rudimentary guide is aimed at. PrinceGloria (talk) 20:51, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
I appreciate your edit, which I tweaked slightly, but the thing is, I don't know whether this is true of frequent flyer programs throughout the world or is just the law in the U.S. as a result of a U.S. Supreme Court decision, so it wasn't as simple for me as plunging forward. If it's true that these programs are regarded under all nations' laws as purely promotional and in no way incurring any contractual obligation on the airline, I'd be happy to support running the article. I take it, that is true? Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:19, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
It is safer to assume it does, it would require some very quirky consumer protection law for it not to be. Most countries do not restrict businesses from conducting operations based on common sense as much as the US does, and neither do mass riots erupt over the devaluation of Tesco Club Card points. The issue is petty and its importance narrowed to a few crazy people who spend enough money (theirs or usually not) on flying for them to get worked up about it. FlyerTalk will always offer them better and more specific advice and a safe, warm feeling of an exclusive lounge filled with similar nutters. And yes, I am one of them. Case closed. Can we find a better picture? PrinceGloria (talk) 06:06, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
Yes, case closed. I am satisfied and have no further hesitation in supporting featuring this fine article. Thanks for addressing this. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:18, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support, but I think it's also important to include the information Ikan brought to light above. I searched the article at some length and did not see it mentioned at all. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 02:18, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. It is a few years since I have benefited from such programmes, but it looks a good article. It may be worth mentioning that frequent flyer miles earned on business flights may be regarded as a "benefit" for tax purposes, or subject to employer's rules. AlasdairW (talk) 23:29, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
I have added a section on this and travel insurance issues. AlasdairW (talk) 22:35, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Natchez Trace Parkway[edit]

Place: Natchez Trace Parkway
Blurb: In use from pre-Colonial times, this drive offers exceptional scenery, Indian burial mounds, overlooks, hiking trails, nature exhibits, and sites of historic interest. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: "Spring and fall are very pleasant.", ie. Mar-May, Sep-Nov (Sep 2015?)
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 11:09, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Content-wise a good article. But...

Nomination
Natchez-trace-parkway.JPG
  • Almost — ...it definitely needs a dynamic map with the POIs plus some more photos. ϒpsilon (talk) 11:09, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Almost and the necessary fixes are relatively easy. The most obvious deficiency is the one ϒpsi mentioned: the article needs a dynamic map with the POIs listed, and for that matter, it strikes me that the descriptions of the POIs ought to be expanded upon as well. Also, the "Prepare" and "Sleep" sections mention that drivers can find food, fuel, lodging, etc. in the towns that lie along the route, but nowhere does it mention the names of those towns or where they are located. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 02:14, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
    The article should be updated to make this point clearer, but since the parkway is over 400 miles long there are dozens, if not hundreds, of towns along the route, so it wouldn't be practical to name all of them. The "Go next" section names the biggest and/or more interesting for visitors. -- Ryan • (talk) • 22:26, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
OK, now I've added a map, POIs and photos. Actually, I think I can support the article for FTT now.
When activating Destinations on the dynamic map I see that out of the towns actually on or immediately next to the route, there are very few that have an article here. But should we mention them anyway? Secondly: there are some cities 20-30 miles away from the route that we have articles for; would it make sense to mention them? Thirdly: should we keep the cities that are just there for food, gas, lodging etc. in a separate section or included in the Drive section? ϒpsilon (talk) 17:36, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
Actually, I might make a separate "Eat/Drink" subsection for that information, listing not individual restaurants but nearby towns where you can find places to eat and drink - especially towns close to the road itself, prioritizing further-away towns based on abundance of options with an absolute upper limit of, let's say, 30 miles away from the road itself. Also, I'd split up "Sleep" into two subsections, with one set up like the above "Eat/Drink' section with standard hotels and motels in nearby towns, and the other one including the information on campgrounds that's already in the article. As far as mentioning towns that don't yet have Wikivoyage articles: I wouldn't go crazy adding redlinks for no good reason, but I certainly wouldn't let the lack of a Wikivoyage article keep me from mentioning a town whose existence is notable and that travellers should know about. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 18:21, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
Ryan? ϒpsilon (talk) 18:58, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
I probably should have made my original comment clearer - since it's a 400+ mile long route, I don't think we need to call out each and every town along the route for people to stop at. Instead, I think making it clear what the major towns along the route are (basically, those noted in the "Go next" section), and making it clear that there are frequent options along the way to exit the parkway and find food/lodging nearby, would be sufficient. -- Ryan • (talk) • 19:27, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. A look at the article history will show that I'm biased in this case, but I think it's a nice article that would be very helpful to someone driving the route. Many thanks to ϒpsilon for improving the article with the map & POIs. -- Ryan • (talk) • 19:27, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. Looks like my earlier concerns have been addressed - thanks, Ypsi, the article looks great now. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:59, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. Nice article. One concern I have, though, is that when the map is clicked to get a full-page map, it expands to show almost the entire South, including Texas, and beyond to Kansas. Is there any way the dynamic map can be rigged to open a full-page map that focuses only on enough land to show the entire parkway? And by the way, I don't think "parkway" should be capitalized except when used as part of the name, so I edited accordingly. It's otherwise a word like "road" and "street," neither of which is capitalized except as part of a name. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:13, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Driving in New Zealand[edit]

Place: Driving in New Zealand
Blurb: Learn some of the peculiarities of driving in New Zealand and head off wherever you want on these two scenic islands! (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: around Oct, Nov 2015 maybe? Otherwise, I think Oct-Mar
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 21:01, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
Comment: As discussed in Hyden's nomination above, we might see Auckland as DotM about this time of the year 2016. So why not throw in another New Zealandian article as FTT in the austral spring?

Nomination
DrivinginNZ.JPG
  • Support – The article looks informative to someone who doesn't know anything about driving in New Zealand and it's at Guide status. Though I would appreciate if our Kiwi contributors would have time to take a look at the article to make sure there isn't anything important missing. Also, some more photos would be nice. ϒpsilon (talk) 21:01, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
  • I think three AU/NZ features within six months of each other is a bit too many. On the other hand, 1) Auckland hasn't even been officially nominated yet, 2) it's far more difficult to find qualified FTT candidates than DotMs or OtBPs, and 3) the quality of this article's content (aside from the minor issues you've already pointed out, Ypsi) is beyond reproach. So I suppose I have to support it. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk)
  • Almost I wonder if we should first merge in Buying or renting a vehicle in New Zealand. A few points are missing from the article (some are covered by the other article or New Zealand):
    • That insurance is not compulsory (due to the Accident Compensation Corporation see New Zealand#Stay healthy)
    • Road user charges for diesel cars
    • Parking
    • Ferries between north and South Islands - rental cars are often swapped when taking the ferry
AlasdairW (talk) 23:20, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
User:‎Lcmortensen, User:Nurg? ϒpsilon (talk) 21:02, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Armenian (Eastern) phrasebook[edit]

Place: Armenian (Eastern) phrasebook
Blurb: Armenians are a people who welcome visitors with open arms - but they're not the world's most proficient English-speakers! What's a tourist to do? Brush up on their unique language and your hosts' hearts will warm all the more. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: anytime (late 2015 or 2016?)
Nominated by: AndreCarrotflower (talk) 03:37, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Comment: With Altitude sickness and Driving in New Zealand best held off till after year's end and a lack of other eligible candidates after September, we've currently got several open slots in the FTT column in late 2015. The understanding is that we try to limit ourselves to one phrasebook per year, but since we ran Finnish phrasebook way back in February, surely it's not a huge problem to feature another one in autumn or winter, right?

Nomination
Smiley face sign.jpg


  • Very, very close. All it needs as far as I can tell are a few pictures; an easy enough fix. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 03:37, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Actually I have some bad news. Armenian (Eastern) phrasebook#Money. And the user who wrote most of what's in the phrasebook is long gone. Anyone here who understands Armenian or need we pick another phrasebook? Personally I don't think there'd be a problem with two or even more phrasebooks a year though others my disagree.
Unbelievable that FTT is running out of candidates again! Time to add some more! ϒpsilon (talk) 17:48, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
It may not be as hopeless as you think. The translations in that section are present; it's just the pseudo-pronunciations that need to be added. The article says that Armenian is a very phonetically logical language and it's clearly described how each letter is pronounced, so all we need is for someone to transcribe the Armenian letters into the phonetic syllables. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 18:03, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Almost support — I think you're right, let's try to transcribe it and add some pretty pictures and feature it in the autumn or whenever. After all, this is to help visitors and not a professional course in Armenian. ;) ϒpsilon (talk) 18:22, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Begging[edit]

Place: Begging
Blurb: Begging is still commonplace in many parts of the world. This guide presents some wise ways to deal with the phenomenon. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Any
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 18:22, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Added some pics to the article the other day, as I noticed we might need some new FTT candidates soon. In particular as some of the current candidates may need additional information or a medical checkup to get the support they need. This article’s Swedish equivalent has been on their main page for several months now.

Nomination
In many parts of India still great poverty prevails.jpg
  • Support… or is there still something missing? This has actually been a guide since 2006 — just check the history! ϒpsilon (talk) 18:22, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
The article should give an overview where begging is legal or illegal. --Saqib (talk) 14:24, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. This is a fraught topic, but we should face the fact that it's an important one for travel and travellers, and it's covered well enough currently to merit a feature, in my opinion. User:Saqib makes a good point, but I'm not sure whether it would or wouldn't prove too complicated to deal with on this non-encyclopedic site. For example, it's perfectly legal to donate to beggars on the streets of New York but begging is illegal in the subway system. However, is it illegal to perform on a moving subway train (platforms are another matter) and then ask for donations? What if you are asking for money for food but your request is made in an entertaining patter? So where I'd come down is, if the legalities can be dealt with in a way that's useful to travellers without becoming overly detailed in a boring way or approaching encyclopedic scope, that would be great. Otherwise, a general remark that it's good to know something about the laws on whether it's legal to beg where you are visiting would suffice, and then the details could be left to each country-level, state or city guide, as appropriate. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:37, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
It might be useful, but the problem is that it's not easy to find a comprehensive list of begging legislation in different countries. w:Begging just mentions a handful of (first-world) countries.ϒpsilon (talk) 19:24, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. The information given in the article is very general, but I think that's inevitable given the complexity and moral ambiguity of the issue. To the point raised above about an overview of where begging is legal or illegal, that strikes me as irrelevant given that the reader himself will (presumably) not be the one doing the begging. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 19:35, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. This is a good introduction to a difficult issue, the specifics of which are best handled at country or city level. I don't see the need to go into the legal situation, except if there are places where it is illegal to give money to a beggar - where an innocent traveller could end up in trouble. AlasdairW (talk) 22:47, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Breaking Bad Tour[edit]

Place: Breaking Bad Tour
Blurb: This driving tour through the streets of Albuquerque will take you past all the favorite haunts of meth-cooking high school teacher Walter White. NOTE: I'm not a "Breaking Bad" fan. If someone who is wants to write up a better blurb, go for it. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Feb-Oct; midsummer somewhat less ideal due to heat
Nominated by: AndreCarrotflower (talk) 19:53, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
Comment: This itinerary was created only two weeks ago in response to a suggestion in the Pub, and it's already in beautiful shape. Kudos to PerryPlanet for his excellent work. We're always on the hunt for new FTT nominees, so I see no point in hesitating to nominate it - especially given that "Breaking Bad" is a popular show with a huge audience to whom we could promote our site via this feature. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 19:53, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Nomination
Twisters, Isleta Blvd, South Valley NM.jpg


  • Support as nominator. The article is well-written, as I mentioned above, and looks to be substantially complete - though perhaps someone who's a fan of the show could prove me wrong. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 19:53, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Support I was a bit surprised to see this nominated as a DOTM since it was only created two weeks ago. Nevertheless, it is indeed impressive to see how much work has gone into it and how comprehensive it is in such a short period of time. Andrewssi2 (talk) 20:04, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Looks like a comprehensive article to someone who's not familiar with the tv series, also apparently including eateries and shops that have been seen in the series. I'd imagine fans of Breaking Bad really appreciate such an itinerary. ϒpsilon (talk) 20:12, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. I've never watched the TV series, but I do like this article, and providing that fans of the show find it accurate and acceptable, I will be glad for it to appear on the front page. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:18, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Support I've watched the whole of it last year, a long time, so I cannot comment on its accuracy; however, the article makes me want to watch the whole shabang all over again. Ibaman (talk) 20:26, 1 April 2015 (UTC)