Wikivoyage:Destination of the month candidates

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Here we determine which articles are featured on the Main Page as Destination of the month (Dotm), Off the Beaten Path (OTBP) and Featured travel topics (FTT).

Nominate[edit]

You can nominate any article you would like to see featured. Any destination, region, itinerary or event that passes the "What is an article?" test is eligible for nomination.

However, before nominating, please check that the article follows these basic guidelines:

Well-known and/or popular destinations should be nominated as Destination of the Month, while more obscure destinations should be nominated for Off the Beaten Path. Travel topics, phrasebooks, itineraries and other articles should be nominated for Featured Travel Topic. Where applicable, you should propose a good time to visit the destination as a month to be featured.

The basic format of a nomination is as follows:

{{FeatureNom
| place=Destination
| blurb='''[[Destination]]''' is a place of contrasts, and as such it...
| status=Guide
| time=March-June
| nominatedBy=~~~~
| comment=Great article and it's just luvvly-jubbly in the springtime.
| DotMImage=[[File:Destinationimage.jpg|thumb|300px]]
}}

Add a nomination to the end of the appropriate section.

Discuss[edit]

You can comment on any nomination based on timeliness and adherence to the criteria above, just add a bullet point (*) and your signed opinion.

===[[Destination]]===
Great article and it's just luvvly-jubbly in the springtime. TravelNut 25:25, 31 Feb 2525 (EDT)
* Looks nice, but shouldn't the Do section contain more than just quilting contests? ~~~~

Please note that the following are not considered valid reasons to oppose a nomination:

  • "I don't like it." All objections have to be based on the guidelines above: poor formatting, missing information, etc. Personal opinions, dislikes, etc. do not count.
  • "Wrong time of year." Articles are supported or opposed based on their content. Timing can be worked out later.
  • "Wrong type of place." Articles are supported or opposed based on their content. Whether it's DoTM or OtBP can be worked out later.

Select[edit]

If an article gets several comments in favor and none against for a week or so, it's eligible to be placed in an appropriate time-slot in the Upcoming queue. If the objections are relatively minor and are being worked on, add them to the Upcoming queue tentatively (add a question mark "?" after the article). Feel free to move the queue around or swap articles if it makes sense. If a nomination clearly does not make the grade and if the objections are not easily fixable, they go into the Slush pile

Once a nomination has been scheduled, an appropriate banner image and text blurb must be selected. Go to Wikivoyage:Destination of the month candidates/Banners to start that discussion.

Archive[edit]

Discussions for previously selected destinations are kept in the Archive.

Upcoming[edit]

Schedule[edit]

The following queue should contain about six months' worth of upcoming destinations. Note that new DotMs are rotated in on the 1st of each month, OtBPs on the 11th and travel topics on the 21st.

Month DotM OtBP FTT
September 2015 Munich for Oktoberfest Altai Tavan Bogd National Park Breaking Bad Tour
October 2015 Fortaleza Hyden Natchez Trace Parkway
November 2015 Jaipur Grand-Bassam - pending stronger consensus to support Begging
December 2015 Dumaguete Taxila Driving in New Zealand - pending stronger consensus to support
January 2016 Banff - pending stronger consensus to support Ein Gedi - pending stronger consensus to support Altitude sickness - pending stronger consensus to support
February 2016 Antigua Guatemala - pending stronger consensus to support Hilo - pending fixes and stronger consensus to support Armenian (Eastern) phrasebook - pending stronger consensus to support

These are not cast in stone, and the order can be changed if, for example, an excellent guide for a timely event is found. Whenever a guide becomes a current feature, it should be removed from the list, the discussion archived, and a new month added to the end of the queue. Alternatives are OK; the whole point is to enable some discussion as needed.

Next change[edit]

Decisions regarding which images to use as the banners are made here.

The section below provides an opportunity to see what the upcoming featured articles will look like on the Main Page using the banners that are currently most popular on the above page.

Destination of the Month[edit]

Munich

The capital of beer, brezn and Bavaria, this cosmopolitan city at the foot of the Alps plays host for two weeks each autumn to the world-famous Oktoberfest.

Off the Beaten Path[edit]

Altai Tavan Bogd National Park

Explore nomad culture, ancient Turkic petroglyphs, and the natural beauty of the Altai mountains where the golden eagles fly.

Featured Travel Topic[edit]

Breaking Bad Tour

This driving tour through the streets of Albuquerque takes you past all the favorite haunts of meth-cooking high school teacher Walter White.

Updating[edit]

On the date of the scheduled change, the DotM, OtBP, or FTT should be changed as close to midnight UTC as possible. When the featured page is changed, please follow the following procedures to do so and archive content to the appropriate pages. At each stage, please double-check that you are correctly moving content.

  1. Update the featured articles on the main page by replacing the current 'banner' template section with those of the appropriate banner for the new DotM/OtBP/FTT found in the Next change section above.
  2. Update the Photo credits page with the banner's original image, title and attribution.
  3. Add the former featured article to the appropriate archive page: Previous Destinations of the month, Previously Off the beaten path, or Previous Featured travel topics.
  4. Remove Template:Featurenomination from newly featured article.
  5. For the former featured article, add the appropriate parameter to the pagebanner template (directly after the image filename) to label the page as having been featured previously.
    • For former DotMs, add: dotm=yes
    • For former OtBPs, add: otbp=yes
    • For former FTTs, add: ftt=yes
  6. Archive the newly featured article's nomination. Simply cut-and-paste the nomination section of the newly featured article from this page to Wikivoyage:Destination of the Month candidates/Archive.
  7. Update the Next change section above by adding the banner from the discussion page. View the table in the Schedule section above to determine what next month's change will be, then update the image and blurb in the "Next change" section with that found in the upcoming featured article's nomination.
  8. Archive the newly featured article's banner by cutting-and-pasting all banner suggestions and the associated discussion into Wikivoyage:Destination of the month candidates/Banners/Archive.

Nominations for Destination of the Month[edit]

Munich[edit]

Place: Munich
Blurb: The capital of beer, brezn and Bavaria, this cosmopolitan city at the foot of the Alps plays host for two weeks each autumn to the world-famous Oktoberfest. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Sep (start of Oktoberfest)
Nominated by: jan (talk) 12:18, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
Comment: Local user and some other did a terrific job to get the innercity districts up to guide and only two are usable (rather lack of points of interest than lack of content). Maybe some pics need to be adjusted but most content is updated and fresh.

Nomination
Oktoberfest woman.jpg
  • Support Great city and article. jan (talk) 12:21, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Support The article and its districts look good. Yes, the best time to feature it would be September. But as of now September 2014 is already taken so it'll have to wait for 15 months if we don't feature it in the spring (or if Munich looks and feels beautiful and cozy with Christmas lights and some snow maybe already in December) ϒpsilon (talk) 20:21, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
Ypsilon, i'm under the impression that some editors want to get a step further and bring all districts up to guide and additionally update some pics. That might need a while, so i was rather aiming for Sep 15. At the moment we are not lacking nominations, so i don't mind if it takes 15 months. jan (talk) 21:40, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. Looks good to me. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 20:25, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. The article(s) look(s) pretty good now. And by September '15 the two remaining districts hopefully will have guide status, too. Tbp386 (talk) 09:01, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. I'm delighted to support this article, and I applaud all the work that has been done to improve this article and the district articles. I respect the opinion that September is the best month of the year to feature an article about Munich, but the city is beautiful in other seasons, too. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:44, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Support for THIS October (2014) - I guess we all agree that the Munich articles are pretty much ready for sharing with the wide world. I also believe that the ideal month to feature Munich is October, for obvious reasons. Why should we wait a year to feature it if we have an October coming? I believe we can reschedule Karachi to a later month, as the original nomination therefor called for "Nov-Mar", so no harm would apparently be done if we put Munich in October and then Karachi anytime later. Besides, we seem to feature quite few European destinations. PrinceGloria (talk) 04:52, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Yes, Munich is ready now. But please explain how you would suggest reshaping the schedule. Karachi has waited a lot longer than Munich since it was nominated, let's not forget. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:55, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
On the contrary, Europe has traditionally been overrepresented among our feature destinations, and inasmuch as that has not been true this past year, it's due to an intentional effort on our part to diversify our offerings. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 11:02, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Re: Andre - I am only active on Wikivoyage for a short time, in my time Europe has been underrepresented. It does attract unproportionally high tourist traffic and number of major attractions/destinations, this is why we have "Off the Beaten Path" where Europe is currently not present at all. I don't think we should go to either extreme. I'd say 3/12 or 4/12 DotM's from Europe annually are fine.
Re: Ikan - it is not about how long an article waits IMHO. When it's ready, it's ready. It will be fine today, tomorrow or in a few months. Munich only makes sense in October obviously, and I guess we should make amends for destinations that have a strong connection with a particular month. Like e.g. Vienna or Milan should be our DotM for May since the Eurovision will be held in the former, and the Expo opens in the latter. Let us hope either is rife for featuring by then - if not, any other destination can fill in.
I would simply reschedule Karachi to February, I don't think that would do much damage. PrinceGloria (talk) 12:05, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
In principle, I’m not opposed to featuring Munich in October of this year, but Saqib might be. If I remember correctly, he was already disappointed at having to wait so long for another Pakistani destination to be featured after Mohenjo-daro last February. Anyway, February 2015 is a no go in any case, because OtBP that month will be either Kirthar National Park or Taxila. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 13:28, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Oktoberfest is really a party that precedes October, only a few days of the event is actually in October but most of takes place in September. Therefore September would be the right month to feature it if we want to bundle it with the Oktoberfest. Otherwise you would have quite a hurry to get there to experience even the last day of the event, especially if you're not in Europe. That would also give us the question, what to do with Calgary? Or with Karachi?
I don't see how overrepresentation would play a role in this particular case, as Munich, Calgary and Karachi are each from the regions (E+Asia+US/CA) that make up the 92% of our featured destinations, however, admittedly this year we haven't had that many DotMs or OtBPs from Europe (Asia on the other hand...). Anyway, I'm also of the opinion that when articles are ready they should be featured as soon as possible, if other articles are nominated later they will have to wait unless there are some specific reason to feature them a particular month. Also, per above, Jan and Tbp386 are fine with featuring it after a year, and plan to write up some district articles to Guides. Therefore: let's don't.
We could of course also feature Munich in the upcoming spring/summer. ϒpsilon (talk) 14:22, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
AndreCarrotflower, I wouldn't oppose featuring Munich article in October if community thinks that is best in the interest of WV. Even though Karachi was nominated quite earlier than Munich and I put lot of efforts into the article but honestly speaking, there's no need to give me favor if you think I would mind or upset. I may get disappointed but that will be temporary. But we need to see in this case whether Munich worth to feature in October? I've been to Munich once but I don't know much about the city as Ypsilanti Da Vinci knows and he have disagreement with PrinceGloria over featuring the article in October. --Saqib (talk) 22:55, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
Quite simply, October is no good if we're going to highlight Oktoberfest, for precisely the reason Ypsilon mentioned. It's almost gotta be September, and that would mean September 2015. Powers (talk) 00:03, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
Also, to be perfectly frank, it would tick me off to have gone through what I went through in finding a banner for Karachi only to have the feature delayed. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 00:08, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
We have a whole lot of people who know more about Munich (Andrewssi2, Ikan, our German colleagues and of course Prince) than myself, and I haven't really even looked at the article. However I do know that the event ends early October, and if going to Munich e.g. October 10th, you'll just see a bunch of construction workers packing down the tents and stuff for next year's event. It could be compared to featuring "Christmas in X" as December's FTT from Dec 21 onwards. Featuring it in September would mean Calgary would displace Karachi or have to wait until the spring. As well, Jan and Tbp desired to build further on the article before it gets featured.
If there's really problems with getting Karachi ready until October, it can change places with Muscat and be featured one month later. Also, remember that Saqib has done a lot of work on the article and it was nominated already last November (the same goes for Calgary). ϒpsilon (talk) 05:09, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
Since I guess we all agree on September 2015, can we already schedule it for then? I see no problem with scheduling far into the future to secure place for articles that we agree are good enough to be featured. I would also move to block May 2015 for either Milan or Vienna, whichever's ready. PrinceGloria (talk) 10:25, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
Especially after the way the schedule looked for most of this year, I don't agree with extending the grid further into the future than policy says. At this point in time we may all agree on September 2015, but it's pointless to talk about what we'll feature on the Main Page over a year from now when no one knows what new and exciting articles will be nominated or what other variables might come into play between now and then. This discussion will be easily accessible on the dotm page right up to the time Munich is featured, so I highly doubt that we'll "forget" about it. (As for Milan and Vienna, those haven't even been nominated yet!) -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 11:47, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
I have not been following this project earlier, so I do not know what you are referring to, but I guess if the policy says otherwise, the policy should thus be changed. On the one hand we say that "Karachi should go first because it waited for so long" (no issue with Karachi, I am very fine with it going on the front page anytime), and almost with the same breath you say that "anything can happen in the future". So, if we agree that Munich is rife for featuring, and that Sep 2015 is a good date, why can't we schedule it already. If something absolutely bombastic and even more urgently needing the Sep 2015 spot appears, we can always change the schedule even on Aug 31. But I'd rather make sure we book this place for Munich and, unless something really revolutionary appears, keep it that way.
BTW, I guess only the hardcore enthusiasts of DoTM would keep track of what was said when and where. I can't see myself digging through all the lenghty discussions here on destinations that are not necessarily in my area of interest, and thus I don't think that everybody coming here will necessarily read this discussion on Munich which has already grown super-long. Unless there is a "general secretary" specifically tasked with keeping track of every discussion and possible outcomes, I believe we should simply close a discussion whenever there is an agreement, archive it (for reference if anybody would want to dig through it and reopen) and just put the nomination up there in the table for whenever it is agreed. This is the way GA and FA work on Wikipedia and I guess this is a mightily fine mechanism. PrinceGloria (talk) 20:38, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

(unindent) PrinceGloria - this is not Wikipedia, and policy changes here require consensus. You can read at the beginning of the "Schedule" section of this very page where the policy says that the grid is to extend for six months past the current month. The reasons why we don't put articles on the schedule that far in advance are simple: in addition to the reason that's already been brought to light, if we were to list every month between now and September 2015 the grid would be long and unwieldy, and if we were to jump right from January to September it would be confusing. Now as you've already acknowledged, the consensus is that Munich will go on the front page in September 2015, and it appears to me that everyone is on board with that, and nobody here is operating in bad faith, and there's no grand conspiracy afoot to keep Munich off the Main Page. So I don't understand why you won't just accept the community's word that Munich will be featured in September 2015 barring any truly extraordinary turn of events. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 23:36, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Simply because I believe that the current process and policy makes it hard for a non-involved user to gather and grasp. There is only a limited number of users involved here, and I believe we would be better served if the widest possible circle were. Moreover, "community" is not a person, and I can take anybody's word, but if all five of us are away or not looking, this whole consensus might just as well be overlooked in 12 months from now. And, as I said, I'd hate for anybody to have to read this lenghty discussion before making sure they can put something up for featuring in Sep 2014. PrinceGloria (talk) 04:12, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
Well, as of now there are only some 3-5 hardcore enthusiasts that in practice are continuously involved with in the DotM/OtBP/FTT (all of which are supporting Munich for DotM) while average users just comment on their favorite articles now and then. In fact, I myself got involved with this section last winter when I noticed that the Travel topic section was about to entirely run out of articles. If we eventually get more people regularly involved that might have to change. Also, unless someone nominates a really bad article in which case it ends on the Slush pile within days, articles are in general not dropped out of here unless there are issues with the article which aren't fixed in a couple of months. Munich does not have such problems.
Also, when September's slots will emerge in April, this thread will be almost at the top of the page and the "Time to feature" parameter of Munich's nomination box says "September" so I don't think it will be forgotten.
Plus, the risk for someone suggesting something for only September 2015 is small. Articles are virtually almost nominated for a range of possible months, not just one. ϒpsilon (talk) 04:47, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
Prince, just a suggestion but why not you start a policy discussion somewhere else rather than stretching this nomination discussion? Otherwise, for the record, I agree with Andrew and I'm absolutely fine with current queue contain six months' worth of upcoming destinations. And Your Royal Highness Prince Gloria of Poland, Andrew is serving to this tedious task since a long time now and I'm pretty sure he'll keep continue it for many years to come so no need to worry about as Andrew will surely remember Munich when September 2015 will come. --Saqib (talk) 04:57, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Banff[edit]

Place: Banff
Blurb: Time to pack your skis or snowboard! Set among the spectacular Canadian Rockies, Banff has something for every outdoor enthusiast (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Any (it looks like there's outdoor activities all around the year — Nov-Apr is the ski season)
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 19:52, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
Comment: Would this be something for upcoming March's empty slot? I don't think we've ever featured a winter sports destination and I've understood Banff is one of the most popular ones in North America, therefore DotM. Banff was slushed six years ago for being just usable, having just one attraction and missing a lot of addresses and directions. This is not the case any longer, thanks to among others the main author of Calgary, currently DoTM. The article would need more pictures, some more coordinates and maybe a minor cleanup/checkup (copyedit, removal of dead links) but otherwise it's a quite nice article.

Nomination
BanffAvenue.jpg


  • Almost - per my comments. ϒpsilon (talk) 19:52, 22 September 2014 (UTC) Yes Done
  • The article definitely has potential, but as you said, Calgary just ended its stint as DotM. I'd be very concerned about placing two DotM candidates so close to each other on the schedule that are not only in the same country, but only 90 minutes' drive apart. If we feature this, it should be no earlier than winter 2015-16. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:35, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Fixed a number of bad links and incorrect listings and added coordinates. Moved some information out to the park article and added a few images. In a better state now for consideration. --Traveler100 (talk) 16:48, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Almost. Most of the issues Ypsi mentioned in his initial comment seem to have been addressed. However, I still can't yet give this article my full support. There are some activities listed in the "Summer" and "Hiking" subsections of "Do" that have no descriptive blurbs, and some of the destinations in "Go next" don't have one-liner descriptions either. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 05:33, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
Great work so far, User:Traveler100! I agree with André that there are still a few small fixes needed, however can probably be quickly done. ϒpsilon (talk) 07:30, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
Will try to look if there's something I can do to enhance this article in the weekend. Possibly Edmonton too. ϒpsilon (talk) 19:57, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm really glad to see someone finally addressing the longstanding problems with Banff, Ypsi, but as for Edmonton, I wouldn't worry about that too much - it requires a lot more work than Banff does. The issues with Edmonton are spread out among five district articles, each of which are full of outdated listings and, still more problematic, outdated static maps. That article is probably going to get slushed, and that's all right with me. Well and good to encourage people to get off their duffs and fix what needs fixing, but to contend with problems of that magnitude is a bit much to ask, I think. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 20:26, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
I've read only through "Do" so far. The article looks quite good. One thing I noticed, though, was this text under "Do/Spas": but only the Upper Hot Springs Pool and Pleiades Spa allow visitors the opportunity to bathe in water from a hot spring. Why is there no listing for Pleiades Spa in that section? Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:55, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
The full name of the first listing is "Banff Upper Hot Springs and Pleiades Massage & Spa", so it's probably one large complex with all kinds of wellness services. On their web page you can find Pleiades Spa in the Spa section. ϒpsilon (talk) 20:24, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
Well that sure wasn't clear! The confusion should be ended. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:11, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. I added a few descriptions of restaurants that had none, in the process of reading through the article and putting in some copy edits. There are still one "Drink" listing with no description other than the name (Aurora Nightclub and Hoodoo Lounge) and one "Eat" listing with no description other than the name (Three Ravens Restaurant and Wine Bar), so someone should really add descriptions if possible, but the article is quite excellent and I'm prepared to support it with those small caveats. (P.S. The confusion I referred to above has been effectively dealt with.) Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:52, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
About scheduling: If we want to feature Banff as a winter destination, March is a bit late, as average highs are over 5 C. at that time of year. Nov-Feb looks like the below-freezing season, with December-January ideal for skiing, et al. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:55, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Just reviewed this article again. I'm prepared to give it my weak support at this time, and anticipate featuring it in January 2016. However, there are still a few listings in the "Eat" section (Vistas Dining Room, Mountain Chocolates, both locations of The Keg Steakhouse and Lounge) that lack descriptions of any kind, and the same is true of the Banff Summer Arts Festival and the Banff World Media Festival. Since my Wikivoyage to-do list is much clearer than before, I'll see if I can't attend to that after I get back from vacation on the 19th. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:01, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Dumaguete[edit]

Place: Dumaguete
Blurb: Both an interesting destination itself and a good base for trips to the many nearby beach and dive resorts. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: My guess is N. hemisphere winter, so late 2015, but for all I know Aussies might come in their winter. (The dry season is Dec-May)
Nominated by: Pashley (talk) 13:02, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Comment: Several people have been working on this article lately & it was just promoted to Guide. I'm in the town & will continue the work. It might be star by the time it is featured; suggestions & criticism welcome.

Nomination
Dumaguete City Rizal Boulevard.jpg


  • Support. I've been watching the progress of this article and doing some copy editing along the way. What's your feeling about this city as DotM vs. OtBP? Is it a huge draw for tourism? Also, is there a rainy season when we should avoid running the article? Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:55, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
I'd say DotM; it is a provincial capital and w:Dumaguete#Hotel and Tourism says it is among the top ten tourist destinations in the country. You certainly see lots of tourists, plus plenty of expats & retirees, and there are good services for them.
w:Dumaguete#Climate says the wet season is June-Nov, so I'd say run it Dec 2015 or a bit later. Pashley (talk) 15:27, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Support as DotM. Attracts far too many international tourists to consider it for off the beaten track, imho. Great progress has been made on the article, and I'm sure Pashley will polish it up even more. No hesitations here. JuliasTravels (talk) 19:38, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
  • I don't see how we can make this DotM when Trondheim and Turku are Off the Beaten Path. Each is on its country's list of nine cities; Dumaguete is not. Powers (talk) 19:47, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
We could discuss at Talk:Philippines whether Dumaguete should be among the 9 listed cities, in place of one of the currently-listed cities, but I don't think your objection is really that obvious. For example, don't you think that the United States has more than 10 cities that would obviously be DotM, if run? Perhaps the Philippines does, too, but in any event, the remarks by Pashley and JuliasTravels satisfy me as to Dumaguete's appropriateness as a DotM. I get the feeling that you believe that every country or region should have an equal number of DotM, but I'm not sure anyone agrees with you on this, and I certainly don't. There are quite a few countries that have no DotM at all, in my opinion. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:46, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
Just to explain my rationale; if I'd go to Dumaguete as suggested OtbT destination on WV, and find myself in a tourism dominated town with international visitors all around me, I'd feel mislead. I know I did not get that impression in Turku, but I haven't been to Trondheim. I have no strong feelings about this, however. JuliasTravels (talk) 09:39, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
No, of course every country doesn't have the same number of DotM-worthy candidates, but I think any country (of significant size, so excluding places like Liechtenstein and East Timor) probably has at least nine. Powers (talk) 15:57, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
I don't agree. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:17, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
I do not think LtPowers' comparison is either fair or would be particularly useful if it were. Sure, Trondheim and Turku are among the 9 for their countries (population 5.something million each) and Dumaguete does not make it to the 9 for the Philippines (100 million), but is certainly one of the two most important cities on Negros Island (4 million), and it does make the list of 9 for Visayas (17 million).
Anyway, the important question is its importance as a travel destination & I'd say on that basis it is clearly a DotM. Pashley (talk) 10:46, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Support — not bad. I'm not really familiar with the Philippines, so I don't have an opinion whether Dumaguete should be DotM or OtBP. Tiny nitpick: as of now there's no Eat#Splurge section. Is any of the listed restaurants perchance a bit more upscale than the rest? ϒpsilon (talk) 14:26, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
I have added a section at Dumaguete#Splurge but it is not in our usual format. What do others think? Pashley (talk) 07:00, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
It's OK with me because I believe it serves the traveler well. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:23, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Support with no strong opinion either way on the DotM vs. OtBP question. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 05:18, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
It was high on my personal list before my current scouting trip and now tops it. Lots of older westerners including several who have moved here from other parts of the Philippines. I talked to one who moved from Manila; says D is cheaper, quieter, safer. Another came here after 15 years on Boracay; cheaper, much better medical facilities and better transport connections. Pashley (talk) 11:31, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
Talked to one today who moved here from Bangkok, mostly because it is cheaper. Pashley (talk) 12:45, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Delay until after merge. Discussion at Talk:Sibulan suggests some articles on nearby towns should be merged into D, and there seems to be consensus on the question. We probably should not feature D until that work is done. Pashley (talk) 02:17, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Pashley, I had envisioned scheduling Dumaguete for very late 2015 or very early 2016. Do you predict nine months will be enough time to sort out those issues? -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 02:35, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Almost certainly. There is only a hour or so of work involved. However, I will not get to it soon & no-one else has volunteered, so it seemed worth a note here. Pashley (talk) 02:47, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
Yes Merge done. Pashley (talk) 04:49, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Fortaleza[edit]

Place: Fortaleza
Blurb: Sunbathing all day, partying all night — Fortaleza truly deserves its place among Brazil's favorite beach destinations. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Jul-Jan (late 2015?)
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 21:47, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Incredible! We've never ever featured anything from the world's 5th largest country! So here's one of our few Brazilian Guide articles, however as of now it's more of a mess than a guide (please don't demote it!). Nevertheless, there are at least a couple of months before Fortaleza even shows up in the Upcoming table and by then we'll have made the article look much better, right? :) Overall tidying, listingfying, importing and translation of stuff from other language versions, updating of information, more pictures, geo coordinates, and adding a dynamic map are among stuff that needs to be done.

Nomination
Praia do Mucuripe.jpg
  • Not yet — Per comment. ϒpsilon (talk) 21:47, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Almost. Ypsilon, your words above prepared me to think the article would be much messier than it really is! Actually, Fortaleza is not in terribly bad shape. The most obvious need is for geo coordinates and a map, and while the other fixes Ypsi listed are apropos, they only apply to bits and pieces of the article - there are many other sections ("Understand", "Get in", "Get around", arguably "See") that probably need no further improvement. October 2015 is the earliest month for which we have no suitable DotM candidates. The level of work this article needs is such that I'm sure we can get it to a featureable state by that time. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 21:11, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Not yet — Need work. I found majority of listings are one-liner. Lead section need few lines. Would appreciate if "SEE" listings could be slightly expanded. Too many sub-sections in "DO". Content could be merged all into two or three sub-sections. Since Fortaleza is one of major cities of Brazil, I'm sure there'll be plenty of basic, mid range and spluge restaurants so the section could be written accordingly which will make things more clearer. A dynamic map with all listings marked can significantly improve the article. --Saqib (talk) 14:27, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Actually, I haven't advertised it heavily, but spent several days with this article a month ago and today it's really a different article. User:Ibaman and the IP user who should get a barnstar and others have helped out too. I think I can give Fortaleza a support vote. What do you, Andre and Saqib think now? ϒpsilon (talk) 18:34, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
I think I went harsh with Amritsar so let me go easy with this one, atleast. So i would say this is very close my friend BUT it still need some work. Repeating again that would appreciate if some of the "SEE" and "EAT" listings with one-liner, could be slightly expanded. As for EAT section, don't you think local dishes should instead go to country level article OR are they really relevant here? --Saqib (talk) 19:13, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
OK, I will look into the one-liner See and Eat listings in the next couple of days. User:Ibaman or IP200 (the same person?) added many of the individual dishes. I, too, would rather move them either to Brazil or Ceará unless they are specialties of or originate from Fortaleza. ϒpsilon (talk) 19:53, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Andre, below you were worried about not having an article to feature in October. Do take a look at Fortaleza now (tried to alert you last week, aren't the notifications working?).
Saqib, I've tried to fix the issues you mentioned last week as well as possible.
User:Ibaman, muito obrigado ;) .
ϒpsilon (talk) 12:19, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for reminding me about this, Ypsi; I did see myself tagged here, but was swamped with other things. The article could use a copyedit, and I'm not sure about the bullet-point listings in the Culture section for the same reason Saqib was unsure about the dishes described in the Eat section - are they specific to Fortaleza or do they belong in the country or region article? Still, these being minor issues, the article has my support.
As to my concern about October, I had envisioned Fortaleza as our November 2015 DotM. It could certainly work for October as well, but then we'd be faced with the problem of what to run in November, which is an even more difficult month to choose for - locations in the temperate latitudes of the Northern Hemisphere might be borderline justifiable in October, but would be fully out of the question in November.
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 12:36, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
For November, I was thinking Banff for the start of the skiing season as soon as I'm done fixing it :). As I said when nominating Banff (for March 2015 actually!), we still never had any winter sports destination on the Main page. And Dumaguete for December.
(Oops, I actually noticed that many of Fortaleza's Sleep entries could use better descriptions and I'm trying to patch them before someone notices...). ϒpsilon (talk) 12:56, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
That would definitely work. I was actually still holding out hope that we could fix up Yangshuo in time to feature it in October; if that does happen, we could still run Fortaleza in November and Banff later in the winter. Either way, it appears we're covered. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 13:03, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
YPSI: Thank you for fixing the issues. This nomination have my Support now! --Saqib (talk) 14:33, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
  • just for the record, yes, Ibaman and 200.252.135.74 are one and the same. :D Ibaman (talk) 20:33, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. I have yet to visit Brazil, so someone who personally knows the city may see problems that are obvious to them and invisible to me, but the article looks good to me. Incidentally, for whatever it's worth, it didn't feel to me as a reader that "Do" has too many subsections. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:43, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
Two questions, though: Would it make sense to recenter the map over the city and zoom it in? Also, do the walking tours mentioned under "See/Other" pass muster under this site's tour listings policy? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:45, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
To me it doesn't matter very much how the map is zoomed, but a few days ago I saw a discussion somewhere, where André said he didn't like it when too many POIs were outside the mapframe. So maybe it should stay as it is.
Those tours gotta go, already because the links are both dead (you cannot determine whether they fulfil the critieria of tour) and thus there's a good chance the tours don't exist any longer. Also, they were apparently in Portuguese only and this is en WV. ϒpsilon (talk) 17:10, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
Would recentering the map before zooming it address the problem of having too many POIs outside the mapframe in any way? Right now, we have a huge regional map with loads of plus signs, and it's not too helpful unless it's clicked on and zoomed in once or twice. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:11, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
I've no idea. As you can see I made an attempt to center and zoom in the map, feel free to improve it further.
Honestly speaking I think our guides would be better off without the mapframe. There could instead be popup maps that would open in small windows next to the POI icons in the text when clicking on them (similar to WikiMiniAtlas in Wikipedia). ϒpsilon (talk) 10:51, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
That might not serve people without good connectivity or access to printers optimally. I think the map should be bigger and zoomed to 14. I'm not sure how to make a mapframe bigger. I'll see if I can make sense out of the instructions at this time. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:58, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
I just recentered the map again, to decrease the amount of water, zoomed it to 14, and made the mapframe larger, so that it covers the same territory the previous version covers, but with fewer + signs. What do you all think of it? Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:06, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
There was a fierce discussion half a year ago concerning the size of the embedded maps, can't remember if it was on an article's talk page or somewhere else. I think at least User:Texugo was strongly opposed to maps larger than absolutely necessary. ϒpsilon (talk) 11:15, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
In theory, no map in the article is actually necessary, as we could adopt your proposal of having maps only as popups; however, if a map is used at all, it should be at least marginally useful to the reader. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:36, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
The pop-up maps would be a nice supplement to a pair of custom static maps (one for the full city and an inset for the area of dense markers). Powers (talk) 18:33, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
A pair of static maps for this article, as you describe, could be really helpful if anyone wants to make them. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:49, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Cartagena (Colombia)[edit]

Place: Cartagena (Colombia)
Blurb: Equally famous for its beautifully preserved colonial-era fortress as for the grey sand beaches of Bocagrande, "Cartagena of the Indies" is Colombia's number-one tourist draw. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Dec-Apr
Nominated by: AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:15, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Another possible DotM for the Northern Hemisphere winter of 2015-16, and one from a rather neglected region of the world: Latin America.

Nomination
Multicolored street in Cartagena.JPG


  • Very close. The article has many of the same minor and easily fixable problems as Amritsar, minus the copyediting: about half of its listings lack coordinates, it needs a dynamic map, and the lede should be developed beyond a single sentence. Also, given some of the far-in-the-past dates that crop up here and there in the article - for example, $15,800 for a taxi from the airport to El Laguito "as of November 2009" - it might be good to update information where appropriate. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:15, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Not yet — Many sections are pretty short in this article, for example there really has to be more to see in Cartagena. Perhaps there's something from de and pt worth bringing over? Restaurants lack price categories... ϒpsilon (talk) 17:14, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Kyoto[edit]

Place: Kyoto
Blurb: Modernity and history blend in Japan’s capital for over a millenium, which gets particularly colorful during the cherry blossom season (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: March 2016 for cherry blossom in late March-early April/ otherwise Mar-May, Aug or Nov per w:Kyoto#Climate
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 14:22, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
Comment: With the risk of contributing to a situation where over half of next winter’s DotMs are from Asia and/or nominating an article that’s guaranteed to sit on this page for at least a year — here comes Kyoto. Apparently it’s one of the best places for this quintessentially Japanese event (the 2015 cherry blossom is taking place in a few days) so March would be a perfect time to feature it. There’s nothing in the article looking really alarming to me, the biggest problem are some sleep listings that should be moved to appropriate districts. The main issues with the districts themselves are listings lacking coordinates, and some eat sections that need to be “pricified”.

Nomination
Cherry blossoms in Kyoto.jpg


  • Almostϒpsilon (talk) 14:22, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Looks very close. I read through only some of the article with a fine-toothed comb, but I basically agree with you. I don't understand the last introductory sentence in the "Internet and manga cafés" subsection, so that should be dealt with in addition to the "move to district" of the 3 Internet and manga café listings. I'm wondering if the ugly "moved from Kyoto" templates at the bottom of the district articles can be deleted. We don't usually use them when districtifying cities. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:55, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
I think that the point that this sentence is trying to make is that you can't leave luggage at an Internet Cafe during the day. So you should add ¥300-600 to the price for a luggage locker, and maybe also ¥220 for a bus to the cost of an overnight stay in a cafe. For example a reclining seat (cheaper seats are available) in Media Cafe costs ¥2,350, but a dorm bed in the Earthship hostel costs ¥2,500, or a YHA hostel costs ¥3,400 (see Kyoto/Higashiyama). So staying the night in an internet cafe can be the same price as a hostel bed. AlasdairW (talk) 23:00, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Support It is a fairly good article and the districts are in reasonable shape - although it would be good if more places to eat and drink had lat/longs. AlasdairW (talk) 16:27, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Jaipur[edit]

Place: Jaipur
Blurb: Capital of Rajasthan state and part of India's "Golden Triangle", the picturesque Pink City is packed full of palaces, temples, and historical attractions of all kinds. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Oct-May
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 19:12, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Me and Ikan have been polishing up this Guide as a replacement for Amritsar's nomination. I think this article is about ready now. Let's "go to India" next winter! :)

Nomination
Jal Mahal. 2009.jpg


  • Support ϒpsilon (talk) 19:12, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Support for November 2015 (with Fortaleza in October). Thanks to both Ypsi and Ikan for your help with this. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 20:13, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Support — Good work IK. But I'm not entirely satisfied with "BUY" section. As already mentioned in the guide, there're plenty of bazaars and it is always good to have bazaars listed seperately in listings in order to give an overview and classification of bazaars and other shopping areas. One example is Karachi. --Saqib (talk) 20:41, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. I just finished updating prices in the "Eat" section. I agree on "Buy". The article is not perfect, but I submit that it's good enough to feature now. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:09, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Antigua Guatemala[edit]

Place: Antigua Guatemala
Blurb: Guatemala's former capital is a hit with fans of Baroque architecture and Latin American history, courtesy of a wonderfully preserved array of colonial-era ruins that fell victim to a 1773 earthquake. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Nov-Apr to avoid rainy season
Nominated by: AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:48, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Antigua was (quite rightly) slushed in 2012, when I first postulated it for OtBP, and I'd always had it in the back of my mind to fix it up and renominate it. By two weeks ago - when I finally got around to it - many of the issues with the article had already been addressed, but there was still a lot of work yet to be done. First and foremost, incredibly, there were only a couple of paragraphs written in the "See" section (and no listings!) about Antigua's main tourist draw, the ruins. I also added coordinates and a dynamic map, added addresses, phone numbers, opening hours, prices, etc. to listings where appropriate, filtered out listings of places that had closed, and did some significant copyedits. I think the article is in pretty good shape now, so let's hear whether you folks do too.

Nomination
VolcanoArchAntigua.jpg


  • Support as nominator. Looking over this article one final time, it strikes me that maybe a few more listings ought to be added to "Drink", but that's a minor issue to be sure. Some further copyediting might also be necessary: the article's original author wrote in Commonwealth English, which per Wikivoyage:Spelling is not appropriate for a Latin American destination, and I may have missed an instance or two of that.
Also: it's been suggested that Antigua would be better suited for the DotM column rather than OtBP. Antigua was intended for OtBP both of the previous times when it was nominated, but in the end I have no personal preference either way. Let's hear your opinions on that too.
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:48, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment: Is it really wise to nominate this definition of the beaten bath in Central America (after all it is on the top three list of all "Central America in two weeks" types) as otbp? Doesn't that further the narrative that "off the beaten path" is meaningless marketing-speech? Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:09, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
Hobbitschuster, please read my above remarks where I addressed that exact issue, which you brought up as well on Talk:Antigua Guatemala. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 16:11, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Support, either as DotM or OtBP. Would of course be nice to have a couple of more Drink listings, though. --ϒpsilon (talk) 19:34, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
  • I congratulate AndreCarrotflower for his great work on this article and happily support featuring the article, without prejudice to the question of whether it should be OtBP or DotM. Does anyone have figures on the numbers of visitors per year, by comparison with some other places we've featured? Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:44, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment: I might mention that with London/Hampstead, Palmyra (New York), Dilijan, Gaspé Peninsula, and now Washington, D.C./Anacostia on tap as OtBPs for the warm months of 2016, for scheduling purposes it would be much more convenient to have Antigua as DotM (for which we have no candidates at all after Kyoto in March). -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 20:38, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Move to DotM? - Hobbitschuster seems to be the only one with a strong opinion on which column Antigua belongs in. Ypsi and Ikan are both undecided, and I'm undecided on an objective basis but leaning toward switching it to DotM for logistical purposes because a) it would create an open slot in the OtBP column, of which there are currently none until October 2016 (!), and b) putting it in the slot for February 2016, where I had intended Cartagena to go, would buy me at least two more months to fix that article's flaws.
Would anyone - especially anyone who's not yet commented on this nomination - object to me moving this candidate to the DotM column?
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 18:22, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
One tangential comment: I think Dilijan, though improved, probably still isn't yet ready to be featured, but we can discuss that more in its nomination thread. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:01, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
Support moving to DotM, on a Guatemalan scale this is an important place. Also, I agree it could be a good idea to have an alternative for the February slot if Cartagena isn't ready before the winter. --ϒpsilon (talk) 07:09, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
Anyone else? -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:32, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Per consensus, this nomination has been moved from the OtBP column to DotM. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 01:59, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Indianapolis[edit]

Place: Indianapolis
Blurb: At the "Crossroads of America", the sturdy, corn-fed capital of the U.S. state of Indiana is a destination for motorsports fanatics every May when it plays host to the "Indy 500". (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: May 2016 for Indianapolis 500, otherwise Apr-Oct
Nominated by: AndreCarrotflower (talk) 03:09, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Justin has done some pretty solid work on this article. There are a few minor issues, but nothing that couldn't be fixed before the end of next May, when the Indianapolis 500 descends on the Motor Speedway once again.

Nomination
2007 Indianapolis 500 - Starting field formation before start.jpg


  • Weak support as nominator. Here's what needs to be done for my unqualified support:
  • There's a dynamic map, but no listings outside the "See" section have coordinates.
  • Some listings in "Do" need to be moved or reformatted: for example, "Get creeped out at the Indiana Medical History Museum" should be simply "Indiana Medical History Museum", and belongs in "See". (In other words, there's a time and a place to use lively tone.)
  • "Go next" should list cities or other destinations, not individual attractions.
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 03:09, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Support and comment I would be happy to do any tiding up that anyone thinks is necessary and an eight-month time frame is definitely doable. —Justin (koavf)TCM 03:19, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Almost support — mostly due to the lack of coordinates. Also, I'm a little curious about the plan to divide the Indianapolis article into districts. I don't think it has to be done but I don't oppose the idea either (the article is long but not unwieldy). Nevertheless if Justin or others would like to do this, the distrification should also be completed by the time the article goes live. ϒpsilon (talk) 19:32, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Almost — I like the article, but there is some scope for improvement, as featured articles are more likely to be read by people who haven't been to the US.
The term "Indy" is widely used but not explained - does everybody in the US understand Indy to mean Indianapolis, not Indiana? A couple more photos of See listings would be good. There are some Do listings (Other fun) that should be in Eat. "Wander the galleries on First Fridays" - it is not clear whether these galleries are open on any other day of the month.
Get in could be improved: 3 of the airports have broken links, and we should probably be clearer which have regular commercial flights; Indianapolis International Airport should be expanded to list the main cities served and also to give ground transport details - 8 bus, price of a taxi to town etc. By bus could be expanded e.g. Greyhound have 7 buses per day from Chicago taking around 4 hours.
All the listings need to be checked as I have found a few broken links: Fountain Diner, MCL Cafeteria, The Bosphorus Istanbul Cafe, Red Eye Cafe, Serendipity Haus. AlasdairW (talk) 22:10, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Stockholm[edit]

Place: Stockholm
Blurb: Are you interested in history, art, gastronomy, partying or shopping? The royal capital set in a beautiful archipelago has something for everyone. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: May-Sep
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 18:53, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Yup, guess who's back from the slush pile again. The last time the largest problem was that there were more districts than content in most of them. Me and Prince restructured the city a year ago and I've recently listingfied the district articles and filled in missing pieces of information (unbelievable how many places didn't even have a freaking address!), so there shouldn't be any issues with the districts any longer. Certainly there is outdated stuff here and there, but that's something that should better be fixed a month or two before the article is featured to make sure the article is up to date when it is featured (from today until May, probably at least one POI in each district will have closed down or otherwise changed). In the Stockholm article itself I've converted many many old-style external links to our new style and though there are also some other style issues that yet have to be fixed (most notably, bulleted points are overused). Nevertheless, as updating probably more than a hundred listings took me four evenings, it shouldn't be impossible to polish up the article in eight to twelve months...

Nomination
Stockholm Castle and crown.jpg
  • Not yet per comment but I'm putting this here now as there are still vacant DotM slots for next summer. ϒpsilon (talk) 18:53, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Support - as our big city articles go, this one's really good. I am not saying this because I was mentioned above, as I did precious little compared to other users (and yes, I could have done more in the recent weeks when it was called for...) My comment would be that since Eurovision returns to Stockholm for May 2016, we could feature the city in May or even April (when people will be planning their visits to the city for the shows in the first half of May), and from my experience May is perhaps the best month to visit. I intend to head to Stockholm for the ESC myself and I will be looking into the article immediately prior to fix all the issues that might arise from last-minute changes for sure. PrinceGloria (talk) 05:27, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
ϒpsilon, there are also walking tours listed. To date, the consensus is that walking tours, regardless of whether they are free or not, generally should not be listed when in theory, it's possible to do the same tour yourself without a guide. The same standard doesn't apply to bike tours because cycling is considered an activity and walking isn't, or something (I don't think that's really the reason, but I've never really understood this policy distinction). So yeah, I agree that the article still could use some more work, but I expect to support the article's nomination soon. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:56, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Nominations for Off the Beaten Path[edit]

Palmyra (New York)[edit]

Place: Palmyra (New York)
Blurb: The birthplace of the Latter-Day Saints movement (also known as Mormonism), Palmyra is a village steeped in history and enriched by the dynamic presence of the Erie Canal. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: July or June (Hill Cumorah Pageant is mid-July), elsewise anytime between March and October
Nominated by: Powers (talk) 23:36, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
Comment: Blurb needs work. Been working on it off and on since 2012, before the move to the WMF. This is what it looked like when I started. It's definitely off the beaten path, but its attractions include the holiest sites of a significant world religion with more than 15 million adherents.

Nomination
Hill Cumorah Pageant heralds.jpg


  • Support. That's a lot of really good work! I haven't read through the entire article with a fine-toothed comb, but I feel very satisfied that I've read through enough of it to be able to testify to its high quality. A few more photos, if available (perhaps one of the canal?) would be welcome. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:12, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
    Free photos are hard to come by, in part because searching produces false positives with Palmyra. There are some options out there, and I've got a couple of my own I might be able to use; I just haven't added them yet. I appreciate the reminder, though! Powers (talk) 01:20, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
    I've added a couple of photos; feel free to look for some more to add! Powers (talk) 02:22, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. Excellent work, Powers, though I echo Ikan's request for more photos. Let's put this on the Main Page in July 2016, to coincide with the Hill Cumorah pageant (and to avoid running too close to Buffalo's DotM run, which I envision for June 2015). -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 02:12, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
    Small nitpick: in an article with nine other places in the Eat section that aren't national chains, do we really need a listing for Subway? -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 02:16, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
    Need, no, but the list isn't strongly curated, so it seemed odd to omit it just because it's a chain. In small towns like this, without local specialty cuisines, sometimes consistency and predictability is desirable for a traveler over greasy spoons and diners with unknown standards. I'd thought about just mentioning it without giving it a full listing, but I thought its location inside a gas station was best explained in a full listing. Powers (talk) 02:22, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
  • Support - The article looks good, I can't really find anything big to complain about though I do notice there are quite many redlinks in the article. Yeah, and of course some more photos would be great. ϒpsilon (talk) 19:28, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
    Are redlinks a problem for some reason? And there are now six photos in the article; if you find any more you'd like to add feel free, but policy does request we don't go overboard. Powers (talk) 21:25, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
I believe we have enough photos at this point. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 00:02, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
Yes indeed, with the two that Powers added since this discussion started. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:06, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

[unindent] This is another article with 3 votes of support. Any interest from anyone else? Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:06, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

  • Support-I can't imagine there is anything important left out of this article. My only suggestion is to add a summary paragraph under "Do" since all the other sections have one.Godsendlemiwinks (talk) 22:17, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Altai Tavan Bogd National Park[edit]

Place: Altai Tavan Bogd National Park
Blurb: Explore nomad culture, ancient Turkic petroglyphs, and the natural beauty of the Altai mountains where the golden eagles fly. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: “The busy season is from June to October...”
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 18:31, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
Comment: Here’s a good looking article of a true OtBP destination - I believe one of those places other travel guides unjustly neglect. The article looks comprehensive and tidy. By the time it will be featured the required 2+ years has passed since nearby Ölgii was OtBP (that was Jun 2013). Last but definitely not least, the park seems like a fascinating place to visit!

Nomination
Tavan Bogd Mountain.jpg


  • Support. ϒpsilon (talk) 18:31, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. I had forgotten this article had never been featured. The high quality of the article is mostly due to the great work of User:Altaihunters (formerly User:Eaglehunter), who also did such great work on the previously-featured Ölgii article. I'll inform him of this nomination. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:40, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. Magnificent. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 18:16, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
Anyone else want to pass judgment on this article? Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:50, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
  • Support. I find it flawless. Ibaman (talk) 19:50, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Grand-Bassam[edit]

Place: Grand-Bassam
Blurb: The old colonial capital of Côte d'Ivoire is today a quiet beach town steeped in well-preserved turn-of-the-century charm. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Aiming for late autumn 2015, about when our current stock of OtBP candidates will be depleted. Otherwise Jul-Aug or Nov-Mar per [1]
Nominated by: AndreCarrotflower (talk) 06:00, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Something of a rare find: a feature-worthy (or nearly so; see below) African destination for the Main Page.

Nomination
Grand-Bassam-Plage.jpg


  • Almost. Grand-Bassam is not quite ready for prime time yet, but not much work is needed to get it there: expand the blurbs in "See" and "Do" a little bit, add another restaurant or two to "Eat" and another bar or two to "Drink", and pick a few prominent nearby cities to add to "Go next". There's already a nice static map. This article has a ton of potential and I'd really love to see it whipped into shape. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 06:00, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
Do you know the town? We need people who know the town to check on the accuracy of the content. I recall when we considered featuring Dakar and finally realized that not a single person passing judgment on the article had ever been there, whereupon the article was slushed. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:44, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Almost — This has been one of the African articles on my list of potential OtBP candidates, but I've been hesitant of nominating Grand-Bassam as the Ebola epidemic is just a few hundred kilometers away. The article itself looks OK to me, though — given the town's size, I don't think there's much in the town that isn't already in the article. It would be very good to have someone who knows Grand Bassam to check it (otherwise it would suffice to use Google to check that the businesses are still operating but I've noticed that's not as easy in Africa as elsewhere). User:JamesA has made the map and according to the article history written some of the content so he might be the person to ask. ϒpsilon (talk) 07:54, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Regarding worries about the article's content: I think that's an unrealistically high standard to hold our feature articles to, and to be perfectly honest I wonder why we are so concerned with confirming the accuracy of African articles yet are willing to have faith that all the listed destinations in, let's say, Dumaguete or Ushuaia still exist with the same opening hours, telephone number, etc. My suggestion was that we add additional listings to "Eat" and "Drink" that we find on Google or other such sources. No, that's not foolproof, but it's no less foolproof to blindly assume that information in any given article which may have been written months or years ago remains accurate. That's a risk that's inherent in using any travel guide. If we were to limit all our features to places that one of our current regulars is able to personally visit to check on the accuracy of the content - or even to places that any of us current regulars have ever been before - we would no doubt have to slush most of our current nominees. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 14:15, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
I'm not sure about Ushuaia, but we currently have a regular in Dumaguete. I think part of the issue was that even in a city as big and important as Dakar, a lot of information wasn't reliably confirmable online. What's the situation with Grand Bassam? Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:36, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
My point is that reliable online confirmability of an article's contents should not be a prerequisite for it to be featured on the Main Page. If it were, then we'd have to slush the vast majority of our current nominees. If we slushed Dakar on that basis, we were wrong to do so. On a regular basis, in Africa equally as the rest of the world, businesses close and the situation on the ground changes, and therefore no travel guide is in a position to guarantee the accuracy of its contents. Particularly not this one, which has probably the most ambitious goals of any travel guide yet a scant population of a few dozen regular contributors.
That being the case, the double standard we're applying now to Grand-Bassam, and that we previously applied to Dakar, is troublesome as it effectively negates our efforts for geographical diversity among Main Page featured articles. It seems like on the one hand, we want more Main Page coverage for regions like Africa, yet on the other hand we seem to be extra suspicious of nominees from those regions and subject them to scrutiny above and beyond what we would for, say, a European or North American destination. I say if there's a double standard, it should be in favor of articles from underrepresented regions.
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 16:21, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
I mostly agree with Andre. If articles would have to be absolutely perfect we would probably not have any candidates here (hey, this isn't the starnom after all). I would like to see at least one DotM and one OtBP from each of the six inhabited continents every year.
Also, there's really nothing wrong with finding and verifying information by using Google if first hand information (which we of course prefer) is not available. When translating articles from other language versions I usually google the establishment, to find the coordinates if for no other reason. But the problem is when you for half of the places actually don't find any information at all online (or they're just mentioned in some travel forum thread from 2007). I don't know if this is the case with Grand Bassam. ϒpsilon (talk) 21:25, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
AndreCarrotflower, if you really think Dakar was incorrectly slushed, renominate the article for the city, but have a look at the discussion in Wikivoyage:Destination of the month candidates/Slush pile#Dakar first. I think valid questions were brought up; note my analogy with Berne, which I had previously nominated for a feature, as the article looked good to me because I didn't know enough to judge it properly, having never been there (discussion at Wikivoyage:Destination of the month candidates/Slush pile#Berne). Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:25, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
Inasmuch as similar issues are at play in the Dakar article as with Grand-Bassam, Dakar strikes me as a much more extreme example. As near as I can figure out from reading the slushed nomination discussion, ChubbyWimbus added the vast majority of the listings in Dakar's "See" and "Do" section using information gleaned from secondary sources, without ever having set foot in the city. I would say that I might have some reservations about supporting a nominee under those circumstances (though I wouldn't rule it out, either) unless we were able to ascertain the accuracy of any information gleaned from secondary sources with a pretty sturdy degree of certainty.
On the other hand, the Grand-Bassam article already has most of the information necessary to be feature-worthy; the only thing we need to do is pad it a little. If we add one or two restaurants and bars to an "Eat" and "Drink" section that already has several entries, and if we expand the blurbs for some of the listings in "See" and "Do" (with no more than a few additional facts for each one, or maybe just the same content that's already there reworded in a more in-depth way), we're already most of the way there. And as opposed to Dakar, the majority of the content in the souped-up version of Grand-Bassam would still be the presumed-accurate preexisting material.
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 04:54, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
Good. Please note that I haven't stated any words of opposition to featuring this article; I just asked what I considered an important question. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:14, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

(indent reset) Support, because the article ain't going to get better than this. I've added some listings and info about the sights but it really isn't easy finding information about the town online as home pages are as common among businesses as it was in western countries 20 years ago. That additional nightclub in drink, for example, is one of three drinking establishments I found using the Mapnik layer of our dynamic map and tried to see if they still existed using Google. The others weren't really mentioned anywhere (only on sites with no indication of which year they were added!). Épilogue was mentioned in a travel blog post from April 2014... --ϒpsilon (talk) 19:42, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

  • I'll support this, too, though I do have one question: There is a photo of Maison des Artistes, but there is no listing for it. Should there be? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:23, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
Now there is! :) ϒpsilon (talk) 18:28, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment - I did draw up the map and write up a lot of the content. Although I must admit, I've never visited the place and am no expert. I just saw what was a very bare article and wanted to improve it to something respectable. All the content I added was based off available mapping data and info online. James Atalk 10:06, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment - Thank you Ypsilon, once again, for helping out. Before I'm ready to say I'm satisfied with the article as a potential feature, I'm going to see if I can't find more information about the listings in the "See" section. It seems like the blurbs should be longer. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 18:51, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Hyden[edit]

Place: Hyden
Blurb: In the Austral spring, this sleepy little Outback town — and its famous rock formations — come alive with colorful wildflowers. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Something for October's OtBP slot?
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 11:43, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
Comment: An interesting little town in the Land Down Under. Probably there isn't anything in the town that wouldn't already be in the article so...let's feature it!

Nomination
Wave Rock, 2012.JPG
  • Support — not sure if POI markers/dynamic map is needed for such a small place but if needed it can be added in ten minutes. --ϒpsilon (talk) 11:43, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Almost. I don't know the town (I have yet to visit Australia), but it seems like a great place to visit and this seems like a beautiful article. I'll vote for it when there's a map that shows where the attractions, including those 18 km out of town, are. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:17, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
Fixed. Thank you, Google. :) ϒpsilon (talk) 14:06, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:43, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
  • I was just thinking it had been awhile since we featured any Aussie destinations on the Main Page, and had actually been poking around to see if I could find any suitable candidates for October 2015's DotM (Sydney came closest; the only thing keeping it from being promoted from Usable to Guide are the district articles, but getting all of them up to Usable would be a massive undertaking). Anyhow, with the map issue that Ikan pointed out having been solved, I can't see anything that stands in the way of my support. As you said, Ypsi, the article is short, but necessarily so, and everything noteworthy seems to be included. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:49, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, it would take a while to get Sydney up to DotM standard. Right now we have one other Australian article we could featured right away — Lady Elliot Island (OtBP). Alice Springs (OtBP) or Hobart (DotM/OtBP?) need some work but not as much as Sydney. --ϒpsilon (talk) 16:09, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
Ypsi - Hobart does look like a good DotM contender. But perhaps a better way to go would be Auckland, which is already at Guide status and was a nominee some time ago. Its nomination was ultimately slushed because of lack of a dynamic map and some prominent attractions that were not included in the article, but more and more I'm thinking that after I'm done with the districtification process for Buffalo (the last district article should be finished well ahead of June 2015, when it's scheduled to begin its run on the Main Page), I should maybe start touching up Auckland with a view to renominating it for DotM in the late austral summer or the early austral autumn (February or March 2016). Even assuming we do run Hyden as OtBP in October 2015, that would still be plenty of time between feature articles in that part of the world, especially because Australia and New Zealand are separate countries. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 20:39, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
Australia and NZ are indeed separate countries just like e.g. USA and Canada, so there's perhaps room for a New Zealandian travel topic as October's or November's FTT? (If it's a bad idea, let's not nominate it). ϒpsilon (talk) 12:19, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Some antipodean DotM contenders would be good & I agree several mentioned above are close, but meanwhile let's go ahead with this for OtBP. If we end up with too many Oz/NZ destinations & have to adjust schedule later, that is OK. Pashley (talk) 00:47, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Almost. It is a good article, particularly on the things to see, but it would benefit from a little more about the town to put this in context (an Understand section?). I expect that a lot of readers coming here from the main page aren't going to be familiar with the Wheatbelt. Unfortunately commons doesn't have any photos of the town, but WP does give the population, and this climate data is available. AlasdairW (talk) 23:10, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
Yes Doneϒpsilon (talk) 21:54, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
Thanks - I now support it. AlasdairW (talk) 23:19, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Taxila[edit]

Place: Taxila
Blurb: A group of archaeological sites, once a great centre of Greek-influenced Buddhist culture and Silk Road trade, today is a UNESCO World Heritage Site and one of Pakistan's main tourist destinations. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Oct-Jun per [2], so Nov or Dec 2015?
Nominated by: Saqib (talk) 21:25, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Taxila is an important archaeological sites of South Asia and a UNESCO World Heritage Site.

Nomination
SirkapJainTemple.JPG
  • Support — Surprise? I'm back with Taxila again which was slushed not so long ago. I was able to work on it a bit. In my opinion, the guide is ready. YPSI and Julias raised the issues that while Taxila is major town, only few eat listings are provided and article is mostly focussing on archaeology sites. I've provided some more eateries that are worth to eat-in, and still there're many out there but they are just basic. I don't know how to describe a typical normal eating place so instead of mentioning them as listings, I've just mentioned all of them in as one liner. Other than ruins rather, there is nothing worth to see in modern Taxila. Yes, there're some Hindu temples but they are more like a religios site rather than a attraction. Please take into account, I'm not nominating it for star status and Taxila is not as big as many of you may think. 'm pretty sure the guide will serve the traveller best. --Saqib (talk) 21:25, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
  • I'm not 100% ready to support a feature yet; I find the one line at the end of "Eat" frustrating because there's no indication of where the named hygienic eateries are. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:45, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Also, can a suitable caption be added to the uncaptioned photo, please? Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:48, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
IK: I mentioned the location. Taxila is not a big town with not so many good eateries. I know you' and others may still want to see more eat/drink listings but pleae be note that Taxila is a town with not more than a hundred thousands residents and given that a visitor is not going to spend more than a night in Taxila, the provided eat listings should be sufficient. Anyways, with that being said, I will continue to improve the guide as time passes. --Saqib (talk) 13:23, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
User:Saqib, this is the part I'm talking about:
A few other establishments that serve basic but hygienic Pakistani food are Sherazi Restaurant, Dream Land, Valley Food, Krispo fast food, Hang In and Kabli Hotel. Most of them are on Khanpur Rd and near the station.
You say where most of them are, but are these restaurants in particular on Khanpur Rd and near the station? If so, maybe that's specific enough, but right now, it isn't clear where these places are. I don't insist on more listings, just a clarification of where these are. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:43, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
  • I might as well support the article. If the eat section cannot be expanded, I guess we just have to leave it as it is. I can understand that if there are just basic eateries very similar to each other, there is not much to write about each of them (this is usually the case in smaller countryside towns everywhere in the world). But maybe there could be POI markers showing where the clusters of eateries are located. After all, our guides are aimed at people who have never been to the destination and they should not need to consult other travel guides.
Which months are suitable for featuring Taxila? Climate-data would suggest October to June. This would mean November or December 2015. ϒpsilon (talk) 13:30, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Right YPSI. POI markers could be added. I will insert them in a while. As for featuring time, offcourse winter time would be recommended so that visitors can walk as well. Between October and March would be perfect. BTW it is unfortunate for Pakistan that none other than LP ever wrote a comprehensive travel guide on Pakistan. And It may sound silly to say that our Taxila guide is far better than theirs. They mention only 2 hotels but no eat/drink place so I don't think a visitor will have to or able to consult any other guide. --Saqib (talk) 13:46, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
  • My somewhat minor concerns having been dealt with, I am now happy to support featuring this article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:13, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Percé[edit]

Place: Percé
Blurb: This touristy town at the tip of the Gaspé Peninsula features a truly awesome arch-shaped offshore rock formation, among other attractions. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: June-September
Nominated by: Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:14, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Yet another great job by User:AndreCarrotflower!

Nomination
Percé vu du mont Sainte-Anne.jpg


  • Support by nominator. I'd be happy with a few more photos, if possible, but otherwise, with the caveat that I don't know the town myself, I think all of you will agree that this is a beautiful article that's well worth our featuring. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:14, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
It's of course a fantastic article and as such I've no problems supporting it. But... I thought Andre planned to make the whole of Gaspé Peninsula OtBP at some point (summer 2016?). ϒpsilon (talk) 11:59, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
ϒpsilon is correct - and as all our OtBP slots for summer 2015 are filled, my Plan A was to ramp up work on Gaspé Peninsula's linked cities and subregions in order to get it to Guide status, and thus featureable for summer 2016. However, there are of course no guarantees about that (when I began districtfying Buffalo in November 2012 I never imagined I would still be working on it in 2015!), so I will give this nominee my tentative support in case things don't pan out with Gaspé Peninsula. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 12:28, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Dilijan[edit]

Place: Dilijan
Blurb: This walkable Armenian town is nicknamed "Armenian Switzerland" but has a character all its own. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: The lede says that the town has "mild climate", but since skiing isn't listed under "Do", I suppose we should avoid winter months and favor May-October
Nominated by: Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:45, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Candidly, I'd never heard of this town until I clicked the article from Category:Guide articles, but it looks like an excellent article about a worthwhile place.

Nomination
Haghartsin-raffi kojian-DCP 4210.JPG


  • Support by nominator. This is a picturesque place and the article is nicely listified. Some prices may need to be updated, but I don't see anything that would otherwise prevent us from featuring this article tomorrow, which we won't do in any case. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:45, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Close The issues are not great, but I think these need dealt with: the Geological Museum should at least have a little description, the "Do" section needs to expand on each of the topics. The current bulleted list is as helpful as empty space, and it needs some "Go Next" listings. Also, is it misrepresented as a "resort town"? That is the first thing the article says about it, but none of the pictures, sites, or activities suggest that it's actually a resort town. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 14:02, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
I agree with CW, they are easily fixed but they do have to be fixed before the article goes on the main page. However, as Armenian phrasebook likely will go on the main page sometimes in the fall, and the OtBP section is otherwise practically fully booked for the rest of 2015, it will take some time before Dilijan will get featured. Per Climate-data, I would say the time to feature is from May to October. --ϒpsilon (talk) 19:07, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
I did my best, as someone who has no personal knowledge of the town, to address your concerns. I have no idea whether it is being misrepresented as a resort town. I think I'll post something about climate. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:04, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
I created a climate chart and also wrote about the climate. See what you think of the article now. Reviews of the Geological Museum and Art Gallery of Dilijan on Tripadvisor were generally positive, but there were only 4 of them. I have no idea how much I'd like the museum if I visited; some of the art on display that I found pictures of wouldn't interest me. So I thought it was probably best to quote (with quotation marks and citation) and paraphrase from what the museum says about itself, and let travellers choose whether to go based on that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:47, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Close. ChubbyWimbus' point regarding the "Do" section is well taken, and is also arguably applicable to "Buy" and "Drink" too. Also, we need coordinates in the "Eat" section. And finally, I understand there's a school of thought that holds it to be acceptable to configure dynamic maps such that some outlying POIs are left off the margins, but I think 8 out of 11 POIs invisible in the default settings is stretching it way too far. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:02, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
Well, unless someone who actually knows the town would like to fill in more information, we'll probably have to slush the nomination. I do have a question about the map, though. I have to reduce the zoom level to 11 to show all but one of the "Nearby" attractions (#10), but then the town is just an orange plus sign. From the viewpoint of seeing the numbers of listings, it's not so bad, because the plus sign is hiding only #2 and #3, so would you recommend that zoom level, even though the result is a regional map? Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:54, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
I think it's probably OK to make the "Eat" section "Eat and drink", given the remark in the "Drink" section. I'm going to do that now. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:58, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
I zoomed the map in and recentered it well to the west of town, but that might need to be revisited if the Eat & drink and Sleep sections are subjected to thorough Geo. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:59, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

[unindent] Thanks to User:Kiaora, the article is much improved. What do you all think of it now, in terms of adequacy of content? Also, should the map now be zoomed in a bit to make the town's points of interest more visible, given the higher number now covered in the article? Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:52, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

  • Support. Looks much better now. Thousand thanks to Kiaora and yourself for valuable additions. I'd prefer not to zoom in the map, as there are quite a couple of POIs outside the town that may go unnoticed if the map is zoomed in. The reader can zoom it in him/herself to get a closer look. ϒpsilon (talk) 09:20, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Ein Gedi[edit]

Place: Ein Gedi
Blurb: This beautiful oasis on the Israeli side of the Dead Sea Valley is a wonderful place to hike. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: November-April
Nominated by: Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:04, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
Comment: This is another great article that's largely the work of User:Tamuz.

Nomination
Einggedi112 (2).JPG


  • Support by nominator. I'll be interested to see what kind of feedback this nomination gets. I think this article is wonderful, and the detailed descriptions of the hikes are extremely user-friendly for the traveller. I would be very disappointed if someone felt that they were "personal itineraries", and therefore somehow in violation of site policy. Instead, they look like good suggested hikes that are effectively "Do" listings (sublistings, if you prefer), and are printable and detailed enough to be really useful to visitors. This article is very well-written and doesn't obviously lack for anything I can think of, especially now that I added a climate chart. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:04, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. To Ikan's comments above, content in a destination article that could arguably be described as a "personal itinerary", I think, is an entirely different animal than personal itineraries as articles in and of themselves. That being the case, the article is well-written but, apart from the hikes, seems awfully short; are we sure there isn't anything more that can be said about the place? -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:31, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment — If the routes are marked trails, I wouldn't say they are personal itineraries. Also, I would like to know if the latter part of the article could be expanded before giving the article my support. Another thing, there's an article I would like to nominate for FTT, namely Hiking and backpacking in Israel by the same author. I tried to contact Tamuz about that article (because despite being at Guide status, the article still has some empty headings in the end) but he hasn't replied. If that article would get featured sometime in early 2016, I guess there would need to be a few months between it and this one. ϒpsilon (talk) 17:01, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
User:Tamuz hasn't replied to messages on his user talk page recently. Perhaps he may check after the Passover holiday, but we should be prepared for the possibility that he does not. User:ויקיג'אנקי, do you happen to be familiar with Ein Gedi? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:05, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
Tamuz used to be very active on Hebvoy when the website launched. He is a tour guide and has a lot of knowledge about this stuff. Unfortunately he stopped being active sometime around mid 2013. ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 22:33, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
Hi. Indeed I haven't had much time to contribute in the past year. I'll find time this week or the next, to expand and improve the Ein Gedi article for this nomination. Thanks for your support and appreciation :) Tamuz (talk) 08:50, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
Terrific! No huge rush, because we probably can't feature the article till next year, but I'm very happy to see you resurface. :-) Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:46, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Hilo[edit]

Place: Hilo
Blurb: Typically Hawaiian but little touristed, in Hilo surfing, snorkeling and volcanoes aren't far away. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Jan-Feb (only months with less than 20 rainy days)
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 15:00, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Let's put on the Aloha shirts next winter and have our first Main Page feature from Hawaii. I found the article a few months back and have checked it through.

Nomination
HiloPark.JPG
  • Support ϒpsilon (talk) 15:00, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Support (see below). You beat me to the punch, Ypsi; I was planning on nominating this article after I got done with Buffalo/East Side and Historic Churches of Buffalo's East Side. If I remember correctly, I had come across a few minor issues with the article when I looked it over before, but it seems fine now so you must have fixed them. Anyhow, this would be a nice feature for winter 2015-16. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:38, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
Also Ikan suggested nominating it :) ϒpsilon (talk) 15:49, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, it's a worthy article to nominate, but before I support the nomination: Have all the listings been checked and updated? Do we have current room rates in the hotel listings, for example? Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:04, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Not yet. The more I look at this article, the more little things I find wrong with it. First off, though all the listings have geo coordinates, there's no mapframe. Secondly, though I do realize the vast majority of visitors to Hawaii arrive by plane, a single two-sentence listing of the local airport does not in any way suffice for a "Get in" section. "Get around" very much needs to be expanded too. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 19:18, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
And "Climate" needs to be either expanded or folded into the parent "Understand" section. No use in splitting something off to a different section if it's only one sentence long. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 19:20, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
I made some changes to Understand and surrounding sections, also adding a map. The uppermost part of the article looks weird, but I'm not able to get it look any better. Removing the lead picture would make the article look boring.
Concerning transport, well, I don't know much about Hilo, the Big Island or Hawaii. But at least when looking at Big Island#Get in (and around) it doesn't seem like there are any other alternatives for getting in and around than those already mentioned.
When adding coordinates, I of course removed listings where the business neither showed up in maps.google.com nor when googling it. Also, if I noticed something to be incorrect (address etc.) I fixed it. I've not checked the room rates for hotels, nor other prices. ϒpsilon (talk) 11:26, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
I think we should check and update rates as appropriate before we run the article. AndreCarrotflower, what else do you think should be in "Get in"? I guess information about roads. I suppose a few people will go to Hilo from Kona, but not too many. We can and probably should add that information, but if you are elsewhere on the island, I don't think it'll be hard for you to find out how to drive to Hilo. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:02, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
Ikan - Sorry for my belated response here. Yes, we should include information on how to get in by road (even if that info consists basically of "all Big Island roads lead to Hilo"), as well as a By boat section that includes information on marinas that offer transient slip rental as well as details on inter-island ferry service, if such a thing exists.
Also, it looks like the only topic "Get around" covers with any thoroughness is public transportation. We might also include information on bicycling, car rental, the layout of the street grid (if there are any peculiarities travellers would need to know), one-way streets (if applicable), rush hours (if applicable), and so forth.
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 00:08, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
Rush hour in Hilo was very mild, from what I could tell. I'll have a look at the article when time allows, but someone with more experience than I will need to discuss one-way streets. I don't remember many of them, though. It seemed fairly easy to drive around that fairly small town, from what I can remember, but then I was a passenger, not a driver. My girlfriend may have some input. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:52, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
My girlfriend says that people drove very slow and mellow and would let people change lanes easily. There were no wide highways, few streetlights in Volcano (but that's some way from Hilo), and not much traffic. She doesn't remember it being stressful or difficult to drive there. Neither of us remember many one-way streets. My girlfriend also says that if you made a mistake there, it was easy to get back to where you wanted to be. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:03, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Washington, D.C./Anacostia[edit]

Place: Washington, D.C./Anacostia
Blurb: Despite its reputation among Washingtonians for crime and blight, east of the river lies a hearty serving of D.C. black history, from Frederick Douglass to Marvin Gaye. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Star (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Mar-May or Sep-Nov (midsummer is very hot and muggy)
Nominated by: AndreCarrotflower (talk) 20:28, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Maybe it's because my work on Buffalo/East Side is still pretty fresh in my mind, but the moment I laid eyes on this article it appealed to me as a possible OtBP. The similarities between the two are striking: here we have a neighborhood that locals have a one-dimensional view of and tend to stay away from (and advise visitors to do the same), but where a rich slice of American history (and particularly African-American history) that's unknown even to many lifelong Washingtonians awaits those who are willing to defy conventional wisdom. There's been some controversy lately about nominators playing fast and loose with where the boundary between DotM and OtBP lies, so I'm happy to nominate a destination that I feel is both exceptionally worthwhile and unquestionably OtBP.

Nomination
Frederick Douglass House.jpg


  • Support as nominator. This is a Star article, which should tell you all you need to know about its quality. No significant edits have been made to this article since 2013, so it may be good to ensure that listings are up-to-date. Other than that, I think Anacostia is good to go. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 20:28, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. A previously-unfeatured Star article. Who could oppose it? Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:09, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Support, but a month or two before it goes eventually live someone should check that everything in the article is still in business. ϒpsilon (talk) 16:19, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Mount Rinjani[edit]

Place: Mount Rinjani
Blurb: Have you always wanted to climb an active volcano? Mount Rinjani might be the place you're looking for! (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: "Rinjani is best climbed during the April–November dry season." Probably some preparation ahead is needed for climbing travel so we could feature this already March 11th.
Nominated by: --ϒpsilon (talk) 16:19, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Support as the nominator, I guess. Though as you can read at Talk:Mount_Rinjani#OtBP.3F I still have some suspicions about the article. Some sections are a bit short. What do others think? --ϒpsilon (talk) 16:19, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Nomination
Rinjani Summit.jpg
  • Support? --ϒpsilon (talk) 16:19, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Not yet. The listings in "See" absolutely can't lack lengthy descriptions. "Buy", "Eat", and possibly "Get in and "Get around" should all be lengthened. "Drink" should be eliminated or merged into "Eat", as this somewhat awkwardly named section is supposed to specifically deal with bars and nightlife, of which there presumably are none here. The information in Do#Guides and trekking providers should be carefully vetted to make sure they comply with tour policy.
If we do feature this article, I envision April 2016 (the only remaining OtBP slot until the following autumn, so let's stick to nominating DotMs and FTTs for the next few months!), with Hilo in February and Antigua Guatemala in March.
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:58, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
The remarks in "Drink" seem useful to travelers, which is ultimately the point, isn't it? I'm not sure I see the point in folding that section into "Eat"; wouldn't it still have to be a subsection, in that case? I think I mostly agree with you on the rest, though I hadn't really noticed these things before you mentioned them (my main activity on this article is reverting a steady stream of touting). For example, in the "Buy" section, I'd like to know what kinds of hand-woven cloth are available for purchase. Just batik, or perhaps some other styles? I'm not sure the information is completely essential, but it sure would be useful to cloth connoisseurs. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:06, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Swakopmund[edit]

Place: Swakopmund
Blurb: A little bit of Deutschland on the edge of the Namib Desert: the former colonial capital of South-West Africa has been reborn as a seaside resort and an unlikely haven for fans of turn-of-the-century German architecture. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Nov-Apr
Nominated by: AndreCarrotflower (talk) 03:46, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Yes, I know: I just got done saying let's avoid nominating any new OtBPs for a while. However, a side effect of moving Antigua Guatemala to the DotM column is that we don't have any suitable candidates for March 2016 - Anacostia can't go in that slot because we'll then have two U.S. destinations in a row (Hilo in February), and despite Ypsi's suggestion, I'm not a fan of the idea of running Mount Rinjani during a rainy-season month simply because it would take a while to plan a voyage there.

Luckily, I happened across a worthy destination from a region that rarely enjoys the Main Page limelight. Swakopmund is a popular domestic tourist destination for Namibians, and to a lesser degree also for Germans, but it's off the radar screen for most of the Anglosphere - so it seems clear to me that it belongs in OtBP rather than DotM.

Nomination
NA Swakopmund Arcade.JPG


  • Support as nominator. The "Do" section needs a bit of cleanup, but that's an easy fix. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 03:46, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. Very good article. I did some copy editing and doubtless, more is needed. Everything that's liable to have changed (e.g., hotel rates, openings and closings of restaurants) should be checked before the article is run. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:26, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Weak support. This was one of the African articles I compiled and translated (partially with help of Google translate though never word-by-word from translate as that is not allowed) from several other language versions last spring. Therefore the text in the article may read a bit funny. At that time I thought the 2015-16 winter season would be full so I didn't bother to give the article the final polish that is needed for a Main Page feature. I also added some prices, but there are still details here and there that could be added to listings if they are available on the Internet (when it comes to Africa this is frequently not the case). ϒpsilon (talk) 15:34, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
Word-for-word Google translate usually wouldn't produce fully good results, but you're saying it's not allowed per policy? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:30, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
Directly copying text from another source (in this case generated by a Google service) would be copyright violation. ϒpsilon (talk) 04:41, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
That seems like a stretch to me. The concept of copyright has to do with creative works, which might cover what a user enters into Google Translate, but certainly not the text that's mechanically spit out at the end. It's also notable that there's nothing on the Google Translate webpage that indicates any copyright claims on Google's part. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:32, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
Oops, somehow I missed what Ypsi said, "partially with help of Google translate though never word-by-word", which makes my comment above rather moot. Speaking as a frequent user of Google Translate, it's never a good idea not to proofread what comes out on the other end. :) -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 13:51, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
No, I don't do copypasta because then the result would be even worse. I rather try to make sense of what Translate generates without introducing any misinformation in the article which isn't always too easy especially with a language such as Russian (much of this article comes from ru:Свакопмунд) which is grammatically very different. ϒpsilon (talk) 15:25, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

London/Hampstead[edit]

Place: London/Hampstead
Blurb: A lovely part of London, just a bit off the beaten path and a very pleasant place to spend a relaxing afternoon. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Star (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: May-September
Nominated by: Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:49, 15 September 2013 (UTC) (original nomination); AndreCarrotflower (talk) 20:16, 12 August 2015 (UTC) (renomination)
Comment: I suppose there's no point in further delaying pulling Hampstead out of the slush pile, since the summer 2016 months are going to start popping up on the back end of our schedule grid before too long.

For those of you who don't remember or may not have been around at the time, Hampstead is a unique case: it was not placed on the slush pile because of any deficiencies in the article, but due to scheduling concerns. In 2013, both Hampstead and City of London were nominees for the following summer, for OtBP and DotM respectively. While they were both fine articles, policy holds that two different districts of the same Huge City can't be featured on the Main Page less than two years apart. The City of London, being the site of Wikimania that year, won out, whereupon it was decided that instead of having Hampstead linger on this page for almost three years, it should be temporarily slushed with the understanding that it would be renominated later for 2016.

Because there have been no substantial edits to Hampstead since that time, I think it's fine to retain the support/oppose votes the article earned before it was slushed (with, of course, the option for any editor individually to change, rescind, or further elaborate on their previous vote if they choose). As for any nominated article that's been untouched for three years, it would naturally be a good idea to make sure all the listings are up to date.

Nomination
Kenwood House, London - geograph.org.uk - 3318.jpg


  • Support. This article duly went through the starnom process and was confirmed as a star, so unless there's some problem that wasn't noticed or has cropped up since, there shouldn't be any issue with the article, and as I said, it is a lovely part of London. The London article was featured in July/August, 2012, so that's the only issue I can see, but by next June, almost 2 years will have passed since then. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:57, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
  • Support, though I'm not convinced this article belongs in OtBP rather than DotM. Even if Hampstead isn't the most famous neighborhood in London, it's still fairly well-known.
As for the fact that London was featured as DotM in summer 2012, please see my comments here.
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 05:46, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
I'm not dead-set on it being OtBP rather than DotM, but as I recall, it's in Zone 3, and while Kenwood House is hardly unknown, it is not on the heaviest tourist routes, which are concentrated in Zone 1 plus the Kew Gardens and some other places I may be forgetting because I've been to London only once so far. I'll go along with whatever the consensus ends up being, and I would love to hear from Londoners on how they view the neighborhood in terms of beaten path vs. off the beaten path. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:18, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
  • Support. Burmesedays did great work on this one back in the day. I would definitely call it OtBP. I've been there (mostly to see Keats' House), but only because I've lived in London—I wouldn't have made it on a week-long trip, and I tend to get around! --Peter Talk 13:42, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
  • Support, and of course listings have to be updated a little before it's featured. ϒpsilon (talk) 15:09, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. It does need updating, but has a lot of good stuff. Something also needs to be done about the map - as lat/longs are added to listings they will get numbers, which won't match the current static map. I would suggest removing most of the listings from the static map, and adding a dynamic map to support listings. AlasdairW (talk) 22:16, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Nominations for Featured travel topic[edit]

Altitude sickness[edit]

Place: Altitude sickness
Blurb: When your travel plans take you to destinations at high altitudes, you'll notice some changes to your body and health. Consult this guide and stay safe! (blurb needs work) (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Any, but perhaps leave some time between this one and Sunburn and sun protection—they're both similar topics, being about medical issues
Nominated by: AndreCarrotflower (talk) 00:29, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
Comment: We're always looking for new FTT nominees, right? I've had my eye on this one for a while.

Nomination
Altitude Sickness Warning.jpg


  • Support. The article could use a few more pictures, but otherwise it looks like it's good to go. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 00:29, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Support — I agree, some more photos would be great to have. As sunburn is featured in June, I would prefer not to feature this one before maybe Oct or Nov. ϒpsilon (talk) 10:48, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
I have trouble judging this type of article. Could we please have some physicians or other experts weigh in on this article and the Sunburn and sun protection article? Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:12, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
So, now there's at least some more pictures. When nominating Sunburn I asked our Travel Doc to have a look at the article but apparently he doesn't check WV frequently any longer. ϒpsilon (talk) 21:13, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
Is there a doctor (or biochemist, etc.) in the house? Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:19, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
Bump. Anyone? To check and comment on this article and #Sunburn and sun protection above? Any fake doctors, then? I've taken part in a basic first aid course but that was over ten years ago. :P
Personally I don't think it's impossible to feature those articles without a professional looking through them, but it would certainly be useful! ϒpsilon (talk) 18:45, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Natchez Trace Parkway[edit]

Place: Natchez Trace Parkway
Blurb: Pastoral scenery, centuries-old burial mounds, hiking excursions, and historic sites from the dawn of American history await you on this ancient Indian trail-turned-National Parkway. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: "Spring and fall are very pleasant.", ie. Mar-May, Sep-Nov (Sep 2015?)
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 11:09, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Content-wise a good article. But...

Nomination
Natchez-trace-parkway.JPG
  • Almost — ...it definitely needs a dynamic map with the POIs plus some more photos. ϒpsilon (talk) 11:09, 3 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Almost and the necessary fixes are relatively easy. The most obvious deficiency is the one ϒpsi mentioned: the article needs a dynamic map with the POIs listed, and for that matter, it strikes me that the descriptions of the POIs ought to be expanded upon as well. Also, the "Prepare" and "Sleep" sections mention that drivers can find food, fuel, lodging, etc. in the towns that lie along the route, but nowhere does it mention the names of those towns or where they are located. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 02:14, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
    The article should be updated to make this point clearer, but since the parkway is over 400 miles long there are dozens, if not hundreds, of towns along the route, so it wouldn't be practical to name all of them. The "Go next" section names the biggest and/or more interesting for visitors. -- Ryan • (talk) • 22:26, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
OK, now I've added a map, POIs and photos. Actually, I think I can support the article for FTT now.
When activating Destinations on the dynamic map I see that out of the towns actually on or immediately next to the route, there are very few that have an article here. But should we mention them anyway? Secondly: there are some cities 20-30 miles away from the route that we have articles for; would it make sense to mention them? Thirdly: should we keep the cities that are just there for food, gas, lodging etc. in a separate section or included in the Drive section? ϒpsilon (talk) 17:36, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
Actually, I might make a separate "Eat/Drink" subsection for that information, listing not individual restaurants but nearby towns where you can find places to eat and drink - especially towns close to the road itself, prioritizing further-away towns based on abundance of options with an absolute upper limit of, let's say, 30 miles away from the road itself. Also, I'd split up "Sleep" into two subsections, with one set up like the above "Eat/Drink' section with standard hotels and motels in nearby towns, and the other one including the information on campgrounds that's already in the article. As far as mentioning towns that don't yet have Wikivoyage articles: I wouldn't go crazy adding redlinks for no good reason, but I certainly wouldn't let the lack of a Wikivoyage article keep me from mentioning a town whose existence is notable and that travellers should know about. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 18:21, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
Ryan? ϒpsilon (talk) 18:58, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
I probably should have made my original comment clearer - since it's a 400+ mile long route, I don't think we need to call out each and every town along the route for people to stop at. Instead, I think making it clear what the major towns along the route are (basically, those noted in the "Go next" section), and making it clear that there are frequent options along the way to exit the parkway and find food/lodging nearby, would be sufficient. -- Ryan • (talk) • 19:27, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. A look at the article history will show that I'm biased in this case, but I think it's a nice article that would be very helpful to someone driving the route. Many thanks to ϒpsilon for improving the article with the map & POIs. -- Ryan • (talk) • 19:27, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. Looks like my earlier concerns have been addressed - thanks, Ypsi, the article looks great now. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:59, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. Nice article. One concern I have, though, is that when the map is clicked to get a full-page map, it expands to show almost the entire South, including Texas, and beyond to Kansas. Is there any way the dynamic map can be rigged to open a full-page map that focuses only on enough land to show the entire parkway? And by the way, I don't think "parkway" should be capitalized except when used as part of the name, so I edited accordingly. It's otherwise a word like "road" and "street," neither of which is capitalized except as part of a name. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:13, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Driving in New Zealand[edit]

Place: Driving in New Zealand
Blurb: Learn some of the peculiarities of driving in New Zealand and head off wherever you want on these two scenic islands! (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: around Oct, Nov 2015 maybe? Otherwise, I think Oct-Mar
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 21:01, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
Comment: As discussed in Hyden's nomination above, we might see Auckland as DotM about this time of the year 2016. So why not throw in another New Zealandian article as FTT in the austral spring?

Nomination
DrivinginNZ.JPG
  • Support – The article looks informative to someone who doesn't know anything about driving in New Zealand and it's at Guide status. Though I would appreciate if our Kiwi contributors would have time to take a look at the article to make sure there isn't anything important missing. Also, some more photos would be nice. ϒpsilon (talk) 21:01, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
  • I think three AU/NZ features within six months of each other is a bit too many. On the other hand, 1) Auckland hasn't even been officially nominated yet, 2) it's far more difficult to find qualified FTT candidates than DotMs or OtBPs, and 3) the quality of this article's content (aside from the minor issues you've already pointed out, Ypsi) is beyond reproach. So I suppose I have to support it. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk)
  • Almost I wonder if we should first merge in Buying or renting a vehicle in New Zealand. A few points are missing from the article (some are covered by the other article or New Zealand):
    • That insurance is not compulsory (due to the Accident Compensation Corporation see New Zealand#Stay healthy)
    • Road user charges for diesel cars
    • Parking
    • Ferries between north and South Islands - rental cars are often swapped when taking the ferry
AlasdairW (talk) 23:20, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
User:‎Lcmortensen, User:Nurg? ϒpsilon (talk) 21:02, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Armenian (Eastern) phrasebook[edit]

Place: Armenian (Eastern) phrasebook
Blurb: Armenians are a people who welcome visitors with open arms - but they're not the world's most proficient English-speakers! What's a tourist to do? Brush up on their unique language and your hosts' hearts will warm all the more. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: anytime (late 2015 or 2016?)
Nominated by: AndreCarrotflower (talk) 03:37, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Comment: With Altitude sickness and Driving in New Zealand best held off till after year's end and a lack of other eligible candidates after September, we've currently got several open slots in the FTT column in late 2015. The understanding is that we try to limit ourselves to one phrasebook per year, but since we ran Finnish phrasebook way back in February, surely it's not a huge problem to feature another one in autumn or winter, right?

Nomination
Smiley face sign.jpg


  • Very, very close. All it needs as far as I can tell are a few pictures; an easy enough fix. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 03:37, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Actually I have some bad news. Armenian (Eastern) phrasebook#Money. And the user who wrote most of what's in the phrasebook is long gone. Anyone here who understands Armenian or need we pick another phrasebook? Personally I don't think there'd be a problem with two or even more phrasebooks a year though others my disagree.
Unbelievable that FTT is running out of candidates again! Time to add some more! ϒpsilon (talk) 17:48, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
It may not be as hopeless as you think. The translations in that section are present; it's just the pseudo-pronunciations that need to be added. The article says that Armenian is a very phonetically logical language and it's clearly described how each letter is pronounced, so all we need is for someone to transcribe the Armenian letters into the phonetic syllables. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 18:03, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Almost support — I think you're right, let's try to transcribe it and add some pretty pictures and feature it in the autumn or whenever. After all, this is to help visitors and not a professional course in Armenian. ;) ϒpsilon (talk) 18:22, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Yes Done, as nobody else has fixed it. The transcription with the stress should be correct to at least 50%. ;) Otherwise our readers have to check out our Star status Russkii phrasebook instead. ϒpsilon (talk) 20:03, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

Begging[edit]

Place: Begging
Blurb: Begging is still commonplace in many parts of the world. This guide presents some wise ways to deal with the phenomenon. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Any
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 18:22, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Added some pics to the article the other day, as I noticed we might need some new FTT candidates soon. In particular as some of the current candidates may need additional information or a medical checkup to get the support they need. This article’s Swedish equivalent has been on their main page for several months now.

Nomination
In many parts of India still great poverty prevails.jpg
  • Support… or is there still something missing? This has actually been a guide since 2006 — just check the history! ϒpsilon (talk) 18:22, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
The article should give an overview where begging is legal or illegal. --Saqib (talk) 14:24, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. This is a fraught topic, but we should face the fact that it's an important one for travel and travellers, and it's covered well enough currently to merit a feature, in my opinion. User:Saqib makes a good point, but I'm not sure whether it would or wouldn't prove too complicated to deal with on this non-encyclopedic site. For example, it's perfectly legal to donate to beggars on the streets of New York but begging is illegal in the subway system. However, is it illegal to perform on a moving subway train (platforms are another matter) and then ask for donations? What if you are asking for money for food but your request is made in an entertaining patter? So where I'd come down is, if the legalities can be dealt with in a way that's useful to travellers without becoming overly detailed in a boring way or approaching encyclopedic scope, that would be great. Otherwise, a general remark that it's good to know something about the laws on whether it's legal to beg where you are visiting would suffice, and then the details could be left to each country-level, state or city guide, as appropriate. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:37, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
It might be useful, but the problem is that it's not easy to find a comprehensive list of begging legislation in different countries. w:Begging just mentions a handful of (first-world) countries.ϒpsilon (talk) 19:24, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. The information given in the article is very general, but I think that's inevitable given the complexity and moral ambiguity of the issue. To the point raised above about an overview of where begging is legal or illegal, that strikes me as irrelevant given that the reader himself will (presumably) not be the one doing the begging. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 19:35, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. This is a good introduction to a difficult issue, the specifics of which are best handled at country or city level. I don't see the need to go into the legal situation, except if there are places where it is illegal to give money to a beggar - where an innocent traveller could end up in trouble. AlasdairW (talk) 22:47, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment: Is no-one else concerned about a statement like: Most, however, are not desperate at all; begging is their chosen profession and they make very good money at it by local standards. The truly desperate will not be found begging in most cases? I'm no expert on the theme, but I feel uncomfortable with such statements. I have no idea about the world-wide statistics, and I'm well aware of organized begging and all that - but I've also seen my fair share of beggars who do not make anything close to good money, even by local standards. Desperation is a hard thing to define, but I dare say that there are plenty of beggars who would not call this their chosen profession and would very much like to find another way to make a living, but just don't have anywhere to start. JuliasTravels (talk) 19:31, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
I don't remember reading the statement. I definitely don't approve of it at all. I'll look at the article and edit it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:33, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
I agree that it's overkill to describe "most" beggars as doing so voluntarily. However, I think it's fine to allow the reader to consider this possibility in his decision of whether or not to give. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 23:23, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
I tried to thread the needle in my edit. See what you think of it, and edit it further if you like. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:37, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
Looks good. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 02:20, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Breaking Bad Tour[edit]

Place: Breaking Bad Tour
Blurb: This driving tour through the streets of Albuquerque takes you past all the favorite haunts of meth-cooking high school teacher Walter White. NOTE: I'm not a "Breaking Bad" fan. If someone who is wants to write up a better blurb, go for it. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Feb-Oct; midsummer somewhat less ideal due to heat
Nominated by: AndreCarrotflower (talk) 19:53, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
Comment: This itinerary was created only two weeks ago in response to a suggestion in the Pub, and it's already in beautiful shape. Kudos to PerryPlanet for his excellent work. We're always on the hunt for new FTT nominees, so I see no point in hesitating to nominate it - especially given that "Breaking Bad" is a popular show with a huge audience to whom we could promote our site via this feature. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 19:53, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Nomination
Twisters, Isleta Blvd, South Valley NM.jpg


  • Support as nominator. The article is well-written, as I mentioned above, and looks to be substantially complete - though perhaps someone who's a fan of the show could prove me wrong. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 19:53, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Support I was a bit surprised to see this nominated as a DOTM since it was only created two weeks ago. Nevertheless, it is indeed impressive to see how much work has gone into it and how comprehensive it is in such a short period of time. Andrewssi2 (talk) 20:04, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Looks like a comprehensive article to someone who's not familiar with the tv series, also apparently including eateries and shops that have been seen in the series. I'd imagine fans of Breaking Bad really appreciate such an itinerary. ϒpsilon (talk) 20:12, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. I've never watched the TV series, but I do like this article, and providing that fans of the show find it accurate and acceptable, I will be glad for it to appear on the front page. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:18, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Support I've watched the whole of it last year, a long time, so I cannot comment on its accuracy; however, the article makes me want to watch the whole shabang all over again. Ibaman (talk) 20:26, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Fun article, well written and an original topic for a feature. JuliasTravels (talk) 18:58, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Diving the Cape Peninsula and False Bay/Partridge Point[edit]

Place: Diving the Cape Peninsula and False Bay/Partridge Point
Blurb: Fish, seals and a wide range of invertebrates can be seen at Partridge Point which also features many unvisited spots. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Star (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Oct-May per Diving the Cape Peninsula and False Bay#Climate, weather and sea conditions
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 16:19, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Yes, we definitely should give one of our nice South African dive guides a month on the Main Page. So how about this Star? --ϒpsilon (talk) 16:19, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Nomination
Peters pinnacle cave.jpg
  • Support as the nominator. --ϒpsilon (talk) 16:19, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
  • This is a much better dive article than the previous nominee. Ideally I'd like to see the listings in this section expanded beyond one-liners (and I'm surprised that wasn't brought up when it was nominated as a Star) - but with Peter going inactive for the next little while nothing's probably going to get done about that, and anyway it's not enough to preclude my support. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 18:03, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Ruta de transito[edit]

Place: Ruta de transito
Blurb: Once the main way to get from the Atlantic to the Pacific this itinerary is slowly coming into its own as a route that highlights the best of Southern Nicaragua (blurb needs work) (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: Any, though arguably the rainy season (~April-October) is slightly better as more boats run during that time and nature looks healthier (though the dry season is traditionally the main tourist season)
Nominated by: Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:05, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
Comment: I am quite possibly biased, but everything that can be learned about this route without actually going there again (which I intend to do once time and money align) is currently covered in the article and the only things missing are some wording tweaks that I feel unable to

Nomination
Ferryometepe.JPG


Anyway, about the article itself: "Understand" is exhaustively detailed; "Prepare" and "Get in" not quite as much so, but satisfactorily complete. "Go", on the other hand, seems too short: judging by the lengths of the text blurbs it seems like each leg of the journey ought to be described in more detail than it is currently. The cities referenced as waymarks, in particular, are not described in any real detail; well and good to provide an internal wikilink, but it's also nice to give a short bit of info and mention prominent points of interest in each. Also, "Go next" should be converted from prose to bullet-point listings.
I'm not quite ready to throw my support behind this feature yet, but it's close, and it doesn't seem like much work would need to be done to fix the issues with the article.
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 22:15, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
So in short there needs to be more detail on the cities/places along the way (calling a place like San Juan del Norte a "city" seems to be a stretch to me...) Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:19, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Almost IMO too the Go section should preferably be longer. Also a couple of more photos at the start and end and some less Capital Letters would be good. ϒpsilon (talk) 15:35, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
I edited the first subsection of the go section to include a bit of info on San Juan del Norte; please see whether this is heading in the right direction. As for capital letters.... Well ze Germans like Zem in all of zeir Words which are Substantives ;-). Furthermore I changed some of the markers (from see to go and from do to see) Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:03, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Hobbitschuster, the new information on San Juan del Norte was exactly what I had in mind. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 16:18, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Weiss ich doch :). And I, in turn, sometimes use capital letters too sparsely. I may as well support the article for the Main Page, though I'll still harvest Commons for a pic or two to add at the top and the bottom of the article. ϒpsilon (talk) 16:50, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Just an aside, unless you use the Swiss spelling you should write "Weiß" with an "ß"... And as to pictures... I've found commons somewhat lacking on quality images for Nicaragua... Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:05, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Deutsche Sprache, schwere Sprache. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:08, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
That you are quite right about ;-) Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:11, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Was too lazy to investigate what on the keyboard to press to get the "ß" and also forgot about the Special characters tool above the editing window... ϒpsilon (talk) 17:28, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Kein Probelm; Ich bin halt manchmal ein unbelehrbarer Klugscheißer ;-) Anyway, back to the issue at hand. What do you consider to be still missing before we can in good conscience feature this article on our main page? Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:06, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
I suspected that there would still be a thing or two to add to the relatively long first two legs leg, but as I see it on Google Earth I understand it's just rainforest with very small villages (there seems to be a biological reserve north of the river which I will add as a side trip). So probably it's OK to feature the article as it is. ϒpsilon (talk) 09:03, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
There are rumors that "somewhere there" there might be precolumbian remains or even pyramids (though I doubt pyramids, I wouldn't be surprised if major things still harken discovery in the jungle) and yes the Indio-Maiz is the second largest by surface area (after Bosawas) in Nicaragua and one of the least visited. It is fairly accessible by boat where it is close to the river, but other than that it can get quite remote pretty fast. I once went to the outskirts of said reserve, accessing it from El Castillo - guide highly recommended Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:34, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

The blurb[edit]

As this article is now at (or close to) the level needed for it be featured on our main page, we might wish to hammer out a better blurb. I think it should convey

  1. a sense of adventure
  2. The 19th century history of the route
  3. the stunning nature along the way
  4. possibly the remoteness of big chunks of it

- And all this of course in the size of a text message. My attempt at a blurb was done with little effort in a couple of seconds and can obviously be improved upon... Thoughts? Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:43, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

I'll take a crack at it sometime over the next few days. It shouldn't be too difficult, especially with the pointers you shared above. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 16:31, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:35, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Nuclear tourism[edit]

Place: Nuclear tourism
Blurb: Atomic science has left all sorts of landmarks around the world; impressive, tragic, fascinating and ones that still radiate. (should not exceed ~145 characters)
Article status: Guide (must be guide or above).
Time to feature: April 2016 for the 30th anniversary of the Chernobyl disaster
Nominated by: ϒpsilon (talk) 18:41, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
Comment: Thanks to Dana and other contributors for this fine article. Nuclear tourism is something new for most of our readers, I think, and thus I really look forward to having this one on the Main Page. Perhaps the article would need to be streamlined a little bit, but content-wise I'm confident everything is there. So, what do you say?

Nomination
Trinity site, New Mexico.jpg


  • Support as the nominator. --ϒpsilon (talk) 18:41, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. This is a lot more extensive than it was the last time I read through it. I did a bit of copy editing, and it probably could use more, but it's pretty impressive and definitely an interesting and unusual travel topic. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:08, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. Thanks for the nomination, ϒpsilon, and all those who contributed lately to upgrade Nuclear tourism to guide status. Perfect timing for the anniversary. Until then we can do some more polishing and I have a couple more listings to add. Danapit (talk) 16:39, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
  • After the talk page discussion about it went dormant, I was wondering whether we were still planning on nominating this article for FTT. I'd also like to take this opportunity to commend Yvwv and Hobbitschuster for all the hard work they've done lately in the realm of new travel topic articles, including this one. If this momentum keeps up, we might be well on our way to a solution to the perennial paucity of new FTT candidates.
As to the article itself, it looks almost flawless, but I'd like to see more in the way of description for the Crimean Atomic Energy Station, as well as one-liner blurbs under the Related topics, if possible. However, those issues are far too minor to get in the way of my support vote.
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 19:26, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
Why, thanks for the compliment. And as for the topic at hand.... Well an anniversary (either of a certain nuclear incident or of one of the major advances of the technology) is as good a date to feature as any. However, some may perceive it as cynicism to "celebrate" the anniversary of - say - the Chernobyl disaster thusly. While I don't share these concerns, we need to be aware of that. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:43, 30 August 2015 (UTC)