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This is my sandbox. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:48, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

Frontlinked frontlinking frontlink


{{subst:Welcome}}, {{subst:Welcome-anon}}, {{subst:wikipedian}}, {{subst:tout}}

<abbr title="The smallest unit of language which has a particular meaning and can be expressed by itself.">word</abbr> gives: word

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<s>strikethrough text</s> gives: strikethrough text

{{marker|type=go|name=Mount Pleasant airport|url=|lat=-51.8235|long=-58.4669}} gives: 1 Mount Pleasant airport

Marking a banner that needs cropping: {{crop}}

{{subst:unsigned|ThunderingTyphoons!}}, which gives: —The preceding comment was added by ThunderingTyphoons! (talkcontribs)

By the way, would you mind signing your posts on this and all other talk pages, either by typing four tildes in a row (like so: <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>), or by clicking the signature button on the top of the edit window. Both actions create a timestamp with your username when you click publish, which helps other Wikivoyagers know whom they're talking to.

merges with A1

merges with A1 (M)

You were asked not to tout, and you have ignored the request. Therefore, you have been blocked from editing Wikivoyage for three days and your contributions have been removed. If you attempt to use Wikivoyage as an advertising platform again, the block will be permanent.

Please let me know if you have any questions regarding the block or our policy against touting.

== Le saviez-vous ? Wikivoyage, c'est aussi en français ! ==

Hi, I see from your profile that you speak French. No pressure at all, as your contributions on en.wikivoyage are very much appreciated and we'll never ask you to contribute more than you're comfortable doing, but if you ever feel like joining us over on the French Wikivoyage, you'd be very welcome. The number of active editors is quite low, with much less geographical spread than here, so any help you could offer would be wonderful.--


Ideas for future articles[edit]

Wikivoyage mentors[edit]

Hi all.

I've had an idea which may help to increase our rate of retention among newbies - what if we were to set up a one-to-one mentoring/buddy programme whereby more experienced Wikivoyagers could register their willing to help new editors?

Anyone who looks through Special:RecentChanges on a regular basis will know that there has been an upsurge in new accounts created since the highly successful editathon, but many of those editors don't stick around beyond a few days or weeks. We don't know why this might be, but one possible reason could be that new editors don't really know what they're doing and find our Manual of Style and policies too confusing or overwhelming. Maybe they have had their work undone by one of us on Recent Change patrol and have felt disheartened or unwelcome. Maybe they find the prospect of posting in the pub for help, in front of the whole community, intimidating, and just want a 'friendly face' (of sorts) they know and trust whom they can turn to if in difficulty. This is where a Wikivoyage mentor could be useful.

So, how would it work? Obviously if the community thinks this is a good idea in principle, but don't like my vision, we can change the details, but my vision is as follows:

  • There will be a new page called something like Wikivoyage:Mentors. On this page, experienced Wikivoyagers* who are willing and able to offer mentoring will be able to write their username. This would be a bit like the list of admins willing to answer questions, which has apparently stalled. A potential mentor can also state how many mentees they are willing to take on and indicate their current availability.
  • The welcome message sent to new users' talk pages will be modified to include a sentence pointing the user to the Mentor page.
  • New users will be able to contact available mentors at their user talkpage and ask them to work with them more closely.
  • The mentor role will be a supervisory one. They will keep track of their mentee's edits, offer advice when they think it's needed, and tell or show them the correct way of doing a number of daily Wikivoyage tasks (using article templates and standard headings, adding and using listings, inserting images and banners, formatting and wikicode, signing comments...)
  • The mentor will also be that mentee's first point of contact when (s)he has a question, problem, idea, concern, or is in a dispute with another editor.
  • The mentor/mentee relationship will be entirely voluntary, and not subject to nominations.
  • Either mentor or mentee will be able to terminate the agreement at any point.
  • The mentor will not be in charge of the mentee or their edits, nor will they be responsible for any misdemeanours committed by the mentee.
  • In the case of a dispute, it will not be the role of the mentor to take the side of their mentee, but simply to advise them and make sure that policy is upheld.
  • The mentor will be responsible for letting their mentee(s) know when they are going to be unavailable, either temporarily or permanently.
  • In the interests of safeguarding, both mentors and mentees will be encouraged to keep their communications on Wikivoyage, and not share personal details about themselves beyond what they disclose on their userpage.

*We will have to decide what "experienced Wikivoyagers" means. I suggest that anyone willing to be a mentor must have at least a year's experience and/or a certain number of edits to their name before they are eligible to put themselves forward. I would be against restricting the opportunity to be a mentor to certain user groups such as admins.

Any questions? Comments? Thoughts? Problems? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:51, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea, and I think it has been done somewhat in the past. I'm biased, but I think perhaps "experienced Wikivoyagers" could be decided by someone being an autopatroller perhaps, as an alternative to your idea? Because while policy isn't super difficult, it's tough at first, and it is sometimes hard for the more experienced Wikivoyagers to understand why new editors are doing things that don't line up with policy. ---Selfie City (talk | contributions) 16:12, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
As a new contributor, I fully support this idea. While I have made many edits and additions to the project, I want to be certain that such edits are in line with WV policy. Having a mentor to occasionally coach and give advice in that regard would be helpful. Americannomad1776 (talk) 17:14, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
The w:en:WP:Teahouse approach (a well-advertised talk page specifically for new contributors) scales better. A couple of mentors can help a hundred new editors a month, and the risk of getting a "dud" mentor, or your mentor going on vacation just when you need to ask something, is significantly reduced. WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:18, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
I think both a teahouse and mentors would be a good idea, mentors for one-on-one help and the teahouse for more general questions. ---Selfie City (talk | contributions) 15:58, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
As someone who has been here since the Wikitravel days, I am happy to do whatever I can to help. The dog2 (talk) 19:35, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
So are there any objections to creating a "Teahouse" of some sort? If not, should we go ahead and create a page? What should we call it? --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 20:02, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
The Departure Lounge (because it's a starting point?) Ground Zero (talk) 20:06, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────But that makes it sound like they're leaving the site! --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 20:11, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

It would be the Departure Lounge for their Wikivoyage, not from Wikivoyage. Ground Zero (talk) 21:00, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
I too would like to see (if mentors become a thing, that is) a combination of Teahouse and one-on-one mentorship. Regarding the issue of mentors going on a vacation: I, as well as other members here have a overview of previous and upcoming vacations and get-aways. We could always give mentors the ability to refer to a different mentor that isn't on vacation while they are and who is willing to help the mentees whose mentor is away should they have any pressing and urgent questions. General questions can instead be asked in the Teahouse.
-- Wauteurz (talk) 20:18, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
Yes, since the importance of this mentors thing should be the 1-on-1 help from an experienced Wikivoyager. Mentorship should be long-term (for several months), so 1 week on vacation shouldn't really be a huge issue. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 20:42, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
Also, when it comes to naming the teahouse: what about calling it the "Learners' Pub" or the Learner's Lounge". --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 20:44, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

It's really great to see the enthusiasm for this idea from several Wikivoyagers both old and new.

Another idea for the teahouse name, riffing on GZ's suggestion, which I do like: the Arrivals Hall.

So we can either copy the 'pedia template of their teahouse, or model it after the Tourist Office. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 21:12, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

I like the "Arrivals Hall" name (or even "Arrivals Lounge"). IMO, we should model it after the tourist office. I'm not to keen on Wikipedia's Teahouse design. I'd like to see it get started as soon as possible.
One another thing: you know the welcome template? Could we expand the welcome message to include a link to the new page? --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 21:18, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
Yes, here's the current "welcome" template:
Hello, user! Welcome to Wikivoyage.
To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page. If you need help, check out Help, or post a message in the travellers' pub. If you are familiar with Wikipedia, take a look over some of the differences here.
We could surely add a sentence to it, mentioning the new page. Also, how easy would it be to add a link to this new page from Wikivoyage's sidebar? Otherwise, the page might get more or less abandoned. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 21:20, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
@ThunderingTyphoons!: I quickly drafted this based on the text found at the top of this page. Feel free to add to it if you want. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 21:31, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for starting that :-) To be honest, I don't have any ideas for the Arrivals Lounge; if I get any, I'll be sure to write them down. On the other hand, I'm happy to take charge of setting up a mentoring scheme.
Now we have established that there is some interest in the idea, could I trouble people to offer feedback on the 'rules' I set out in the original post? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 22:50, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
Yes, so I'll move the "Arrivals lounge" page to "Wikivoyage" space, and then I'll consider your above "rules" for the mentorship, which IMO should be separate from the Arrivals Lounge. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 23:06, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
I've moved it to WV space, so new users can now go to the arrivals lounge and ask questions. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 23:12, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
Excellent. I've kicked things off with a question to get it going, and sprinkled links to it in various places new contributors may be looking for information. I like the name, too. Ground Zero (talk) 04:41, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── This is a good idea. Something else to keep in mind, is that most news users don't get any welcome message. If you look at Special:ActiveUsers, you will find a very large of number of editors that have made a few small but net positive contributions to Wikivoyage over the past 30 days who however, have never been welcomed in a standard way let alone guided or mentored. It becomes very difficult to find them once their most recent edit was more than 30 days ago. I sometimes go on a welcoming spree and add a personal touch to each message at the end (usually thanking them improving the coverage of a particular part of the world) but I could never complete the list as such. I found it took a long time to welcome someone properly. You have to go through all of their contributions and make sure their edits are positive or at least in good faith and then send a partially tailored message as a minimum. You can also find touting or vandalism that has flown under the radar. Gizza (roam) 23:12, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I like the mentor idea and the rules that TT has created, and I don't see anything wrong with them. We seem to have pretty widespread agreement over this, so I'd like to see it go ahead. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 23:21, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
I'm happy to mentor people too, if you don't mind that I'm not an admin, and I have no desire to be an admin. The dog2 (talk) 04:04, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

A new welcome template mentioning the Arrivals lounge[edit]

So I've created a new template in my userspace (if I've done it wrong, feel free to correct it) with a slight change to it mentions the Arrivals lounge. This is what I intend for it to print:

Hello, user! Welcome to Wikivoyage.
To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page. If you need help, check out Help, or post a message in the arrivals lounge. If you are familiar with Wikipedia, take a look over some of the differences here.

Compared to the current:

Hello, user! Welcome to Wikivoyage.
To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page. If you need help, check out Help, or post a message in the travellers' pub. If you are familiar with Wikipedia, take a look over some of the differences here.

The difference is subtle: just a different link near the end, leading to the Arrivals lounge instead of the Pub. Is everyone okay with this? If so, could they edit the template so this becomes the standard? Thanks. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 01:52, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

I just noticed that Ground Zero made a welcome template mentioning the arrivals lounge as well. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 02:01, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
Of course newbies are welcome to post in the pub, but I think it makes more sense to direct them to the Arrivals lounge where their questions with be handled with more care because it is clear that they are newbies. I think our approach is that each senior editor uses their own welcome message, instead of their being a standard one, so that it is more personal. I would also encourage editors to mention the Arrivals lounge when welcoming new users. Ground Zero (talk) 02:15, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
Yes, good idea.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:30, 2 September 2018 (UTC)




Intro - Gaum - Chelp - Agait in - Agait abaht - Si - Do - Get tha skoilin' - Tew - Buy - Eyt - Sup - Lig - Dunt tha flay - Bahn yonder

To do[edit]

Clock watching cat - - 674973.jpg
The Merchant Adventurers Hall The Undercroft.jpg
Class A4 4468 Mallard.jpg

For safekeeping:

  • 1 Chocolate Café (York Cocoa House), 3 Blake Street, YO1 8QJ, +44 1904 675 787. M-W 8:30AM-6PM, Th-Sa 8:30AM-9PM, Su 10AM-5:30PM. The home of chocolate-based gastronomy in York, where savoury local recipes are ingeniously joined by chocolate with intriguing results. Afternoon chocolate is a chocolate version of tea for those who want to sample a selection of the café's dishes. 2 courses £15.50, 3 courses £19.50, afternoon chocolate from £13.50.


Ofo bikes - dockless bike share.


35 Chapel Walk Artspace - investigate and make listing if reasonable.

Site Gallery reopens in 2018. Provisional listing:


Green city: High Stones, at 550 metres above sea level, is the highest point in Sheffield.

Memorial Hall - the real of the City Hall. Hosts the Last Laugh Comedy Club. The Art House - art centre and workshops - pertinent to WV?

Add mountain biking section

fishing in Sheaf / Don

Check out Outdoor City site.

If districtify: Antiques Quarter (incl. London Rd.) might be a good 'un. Include Healing Space massage. acupuncture parlour (apparently these go under 'do')

Should Outlines ever return, here is the listing:

  • Outlines Festival (2-3 March 2018). Held at various indoor venues across the city centre. A music festival and winter spin-off of Tramlines, sadly without the same low prices and free gigs as its popular parent event. Crams in an impressively large line up of exciting new artists across different genres. Attendees must be at least 14 years old.


English Language Teaching Centre


London Rd: Ozmen, Pro-X sports shop, army surplus, wavelength music, It's Party Time

Eccy Eoad: The Famous Sheffield Shop cutlery and gifts etc


  • fishcakes
  • Hendos
  • Bassett's - jelly babies, liquorice allsorts, Maynard's wine gums
  • Cooplands and Staniforths bakeries
  • Nottingham House pies
  • La Perle patisserie, the Wicker - French and Moroccan apparently - Wicker and Castlegate in particular - lots of choice of cheap restos, close to the hotels.
  • new nordic resto
  • Ethiopian / Eritrean place: Fresh Habesha
  • The Devonshire, Div St (pea and pie place)
  • Wrapchic
  • Maveli's


"Armed with Magnums" - Sheffield bouncers a friendly bunch.
  • Old Queens Head PH - great range of British and continental beers, plus a Czech food / trad pub grub menu mash-up.
  • Investigate DINA
  • Public, Surrey St


Houseboat Hotels, canal basin

For Wikivoyage:Discover[edit]

  • Pittsburgh and Sheffield, both known as the steel city on their respective sides of the Atlantic, are also both well-kept secrets where tourism is concerned.

When / if the Guggenheim ever opens:

  • In Abu Dhabi, you can visit both the Louvre and Guggenheim museums on the same day.

The 'so and so' of the compass point[edit]

  • Bucharest's fine Haussmannian architecture and wide boulevards have earned it the nickname Paris of the east.
  • Dunedin is known as the Edinburgh of the south, due to its shared etymology with the Scottish capital (Dùn Èideann - itself marketed as the Athens of the north).
  • St. Louis's thriving catholic archdiocese have led to the city being labelled the Rome of the west.

United Kingdom#See[edit]

The country article template only says: Describe the types of attractions that can be found in the country. List the most famous attractions in the country.

  • Do we really a cities section, which is a duplication? If yes, then it should be prose, rather than a list, and should focus on the types of cities that can be explored (4 capitals, industrial, cathedral, uni towns)
  • Perhaps more detail in parks and nature - does the map add or detract from article? Add info about nature reserves and wildlife watching e.g. where to see seals, dolphins, sea birds, wetland birds, beaver, boar etc...
  • History: avoid duplication of info / functions of 'history' section in understand. The section must focus very closely on attractions and leave all background information to 'understand'. Instead of a chronological narrative, grouping attractions by type may be preferable (e.g. castles, places of worship, prehistoric stuff, stately homes, industrial heritage...)
  • Verify sport covers everything - I think it does - and take out anything which strays too far from the purposes of a travel guide. Would this be better in 'do'?
  • Remove landmarks that are part of cities? e.g. Big Ben. An exception may be a city like Stratford, whose primary interest lies in Shakespeare-related attractions.
  • Royalty is presumably a huge draw for tourism - is there anything to say, besides listing the palaces? Perhaps advice on watching royal displays of pageantry (changing the guard, trooping the colour, ceremony of the keys), how to catch a glimpse of the royals themselves.
  • Add a museums and galleries section like France#See?
  • Investigate see also: possibilities.
  • More photos!

Cities and towns[edit]

Do we really a cities section, which is a duplication? If yes, then it should be prose, rather than a list, and should focus on the types of cities that can be explored (4 capitals, industrial, cathedral, uni towns)

Besides being the only country you can visit four national capitals for the price of one, there is an enormous range of towns and cities to explore in the United Kingdom. It is always worth looking beyond the nine large cities listed above, as many of the UK's best urban experiences are to be found in smaller historic cities. In the average small UK city, you are practically guaranteed a mediaeval cathedral, a castle or similar fortifications, and a warren of higgledy piggledy streets around which to navigate. Highlights include Bath, Canterbury, Durham, Lincoln, Perth, St Andrews, York.

The two ancient university cities of Oxford and Cambridge allow you to wander among the dreaming spires, to punt on the river and at certain times to walk through the college quadrangles.

And about those capitals, besides from each having parliaments and national institutions (museums, galleries...) - they're about as different from one another as can be. Etc, etc, yadda yadda yadda

Parks and nature[edit]

Perhaps more detail in parks and nature - does the map add or detract from article? Add info about nature reserves and wildlife watching e.g. where to see seals, dolphins, sea birds, wetland birds, beaver, boar etc...

National Parks and Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty in the UK

For such a small country, the United Kingdom has a plethora of rural landscapes and natural treasures. The 15 National Parks are joined by a total of 84 other large protected areas of countryside : 49 Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty across England, Northern Ireland and Wales, versus 35 National Scenic Areas in Scotland. Together, these parks serve to preserve the country's natural heritage, which is as much about preserving traditional rural practices as it is about protecting landscapes and wildlife habitats.

But what are they protecting? In southern England there are the rolling hills and picturesque villages of the Cotswolds, the chalk hills of the Downs and the prehistoric cliffs of the Jurassic Coast. In the east, you'll find the lowland tranquility of the Fens. The north of England has magnificent scenery and outdoor activities in the Lake District, Peak District and Yorkshire Dales. Wales offers the ruggedness of Snowdonia National Park and the beautiful beaches of the Gower. Scotland has the vast wilderness of the Highlands and the beauty of the islands. Northern Ireland is blessed with the Giant's Causeway as well as the north Antrim coast.

United Kingdom#Do[edit]

Country article template says: Describe the most popular things to do in the country and the best places to do each activity.

  • First sentence about getting out of London may be better placed in 'See'.
  • There is definitely duplication and confusion regarding putting things in which belong in 'do'.
  • Elaborate on shopping and music
  • Theme parks? Particularly Merlin entertainment and Legoland. Zoos and aquariums, heritage railways, model villages, gardens.
  • Attend the theatre (particularly Shakespeare needs a mention) / cinema (with focus on British film?)
  • Countryside activities: walking, cycling, horseriding, angling. Even include mountaineering.
  • Sea-based activities: surfing, fishing, sailing. A nod to the Great British seaside resort is a must.
  • Events and festivals, particularly music festivals are a must. But also national saints' days, Burns night, Chinese NY in London (or is this too specific?). Agricultural / county show, sheep dog trials?
  • Itineraries - do they go in 'see' or 'do'? Then we need to list them.

Hampshire regions idea[edit]

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North Hampshire[edit]

Basingstoke & Deane, Hart, Rushmoor, northern Test Valley

  • 1 Aldershot – The "Home of the British Army" has two good military museums.
  • 2 Andover – This pretty coaching town is an excellent base for exploring the Wessex countryside, both in Hampshire and over the border in Wiltshire.
  • 3 Basingstoke – 'Soulless' new town it may be, Basingstoke nonetheless offers some of the best shopping and entertainment in Hampshire, and an unusual "living history" museum.
  • 4 Farnborough – The "Birthplace of British Aviation" is still home to the biennial International Air Show and a super little aerospace museum.
  • 5 Fleet
  • 6 Odiham – Small rural town with regular markets and pretty countryside ideal for walking.
  • 7 Tadley – Small town that's good for visits to local landmarks, including a ruined Roman city and a Georgian stately home.

Mid Hampshire[edit]

East Hampshire, Eastleigh, southern Test Valley, Winchester

  • 8 Alresford – Colourful old town at one end of the Mid Hants Steam Railway that is still the hub of England's watercress industry.
  • 9 Alton – Historic market town at the other end of the Mid Hants Railway.
  • 10 Eastleigh – Benny Hill once did his milk round here and the Spitfire first flew here, but modern Eastleigh has little to offer the traveller beyond good cheap accommodation and excellent transport connections.
  • 11 Petersfield
  • 12 Romsey – Market town on the edge of the New Forest, home to an abbey and many historic houses.
  • 13 Winchester – Hampshire's county town and England's first capital city is best known for its ancient cathedral and medieval centre


Fareham, Gosport, Havant, Portsmouth, Southampton

  • 14 Emsworth – Foodie village with views over Chichester Harbour.
  • 15 Fareham – Coastal town home to the Roman and Medieval Portchester Castle and several imposing fortresses from the Napoleonic Wars.
  • 16 Gosport – Facing Portsmouth across their shared harbour, Gosport has two naval museums of repute.
  • 17 Havant – A former Celtic settlement close to Langstone Harbour.
  • 18 Portsmouth – An active naval city since the 1500s, Portsmouth mixes priceless maritime heritage with impressive modern architecture
  • 19 Southampton – The largest city in Hampshire is also the county's commercial, education and media hub. Good shopping, two universities and the UK's main cruise ship port attract visitors

New Forest[edit]

New Forest

  • 20 Beaulieu – Village known for the Motor Museum.
  • 21 Brockenhurst – a small town in the New Forest.
  • 22 Burley – A village in the New Forest.
  • 23 Calshot – Beach village in the New Forest with a castle and watersports.
  • 24 Hythe – On the western shore of Southampton Water next to the New Forest.
  • 25 Lymington – Beautiful Georgian seaside town in the New Forest.
  • 26 Lyndhurst – The picturesque main town of the New Forest, which has the reputation for being somewhat of a tourist trap.


Formatting and language conventions

For articles about Syldavia, please use the 24-hour clock to show times, e.g. 09:00-12:00 and 18:00-00:00. Syldavians don't understand the 12-hour clock.

Please show prices in this format: 100 khôr and not 100 khor, 100 kh, or SDK 100. For areas accepting foreign currency, use €100 for euros.

Phone numbers should be formatted as +714 XXX-XXXX.