Wikivoyage talk:City guide status

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GetIn section for District to be Usable?[edit]

I wonder why we require GetIn section for a district article for being eligible to Usable status? Any objections to removing this requirement for districts? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 20:09, 1 September 2010 (EDT)

I consider "get in" to be the most basic information that any article must have to be "usable," in the literal sense of the word. If travelers do not know how to get to Khao San Road, then the article will not be of much use, regardless of how well the rest of the article is developed. The get in section is sometimes less important for the central-most district article, but even there it is very useful to provide some basic transport info. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:19, 2 September 2010 (EDT)
I'm fine with requiring it for guide status, but why for usable--which says "An adventurous person could use this article" in the first place? From inside the city, it's very frequently "districtname is fairly easy to get to from anywhere in the city by taxi, bus, and metro"; from airport / out-of-city train stations / ports, having GetIn directions in the city article do the job for 90% cases.
I try to apply the requirement to districts in Budapest, Barcelona, Moscow and St Petersburg (escpecially to the central ones most interesting to--and most frequenly used by travelers), and every time it looks very odd to me for usable district status. And for outer districts, there's always some kind of directions for a hotel / attraction--which again do the job much better for 90% of that other 10% of needs. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 18:34, 2 September 2010 (EDT)
Plunged forward: [1]. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 18:32, 28 January 2011 (EST)
Wait, I still disagree for the reasons above. It's not hard to say, use Metro stop X, or Bus #Y to get into this district, and that really is fundamental information. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 18:58, 30 January 2011 (EST)

same status template for districts?[edit]

I didn't find it stated that explicitly--should templates like usablecity, guidecity, starcity be also used for district articles? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 17:45, 2 September 2010 (EDT)

Attraction directions[edit]

Currently, one of the requirements for usable status is: At least the most prominent attraction is identified with directions.

As some may know, a British postcode identifies a building's location quite precisely in urban areas and is able to be used by most mapping programs intended for use in the British Isles. Are just an address and postcode, as in this example sufficient information in a Listing or do we need to add "first right, second left, drive 2.6 miles and turn left" type directions to qualify it for usable status? --W. Franke-mailtalk 10:20, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

For Western destinations at least, I think the directions parameter is more useful for public transport directions. Addresses can simply be keyed into Google Maps or found on a streetmap. See the See section of Melbourne/City Centre for my interpretation. James Atalk 10:41, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
That makes sense, James. --W. Franke-mailtalk 11:50, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Raise the bar for Outline status?[edit]

Very few of our articles are at Stub status. Very many are tagged as Outline when they only have a single sentence describing where the city or district is located followed by a boney and tantalising skeleton of empty templated sub-headings. Is there a case for raising the bar for achieving Outline status? I would favour our city template automatically placing a Stub status template rather than an Outline status template (after changing the Stub and Outline maturity qualification wording, of course). --W. Franke-mailtalk 10:20, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

The stub status should be reserved for articles were there is no structure. Either someone has typed in information with no identifiable sections titles or it is unclear initially if it a location , travel topic or itinerary and needs some work to format to an outline article. If a page just has outline titles with no content, like Prq, then it should be redirected or tagged for deletion. --Traveler100 (talk) 12:32, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Moving out?[edit]

In the description of Guide status:

There will be multiple ways to get in, some suggestions for moving out, and information on getting around.

I don't think this site means to tell people how to move out of a city. I don't know what "move out" means in other dialects of English, but here in the US, it means what people in Britain and some other countries call "moving house." I don't like the use of the future tense in that sentence, either.

I propose the following change in language:

There are clear explanations of multiple ways to get in, information on getting around, and suggestions for where to go next with one-liner descriptions.

Also, why is there no requirement for Guide status articles to have any photos in them? I think that's wrong. I think that they should be required to have a custom pagebanner and at least one additional photo, at a bare minimum. What do you think? Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:29, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

I support your proposed wording change with regard to "moving out".
As for requiring photos for guide cities, adding that requirement would force us to instantly demote a significant number of current guide cities. If someone were to go through all the current guide cities first and make sure they all get a banner and at least one other photos, I would probably support such a requirement change afterward. Texugo (talk) 11:44, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
That makes sense. Where do we try to publicize such efforts? Should we do a Guide Article Expedition? Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:51, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
I doubt there are so many that it needs an expedition. There may be a handful which have a banner but not a second picture, but ignoring those for the moment, it appears that there are currently 97 guide cities with no banner. (List here.) I imagine that goal is short term enough that we don't need to mount a full-blown expedition. Texugo (talk) 12:04, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
Perhaps this should be publicized in the Pub, then. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:10, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
Yes, and perhaps you could make it a sub-goal of Wikivoyage:Banner Expedition. Texugo (talk) 13:13, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
I went ahead and changed the language about the criteria for Guide status. I should probably look to see what the Guide requirements are for other types of articles, as they may also need better phrasing. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:45, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
I do see a similar problem in the phrasing of the criteria for Region Guide-status articles. However, my hard drive may fail at any moment (I will send the computer in for replacement of the hard drive very soon). So I think I'll come back to this later. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:48, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
I also changed the language for Region Guide-status articles and Park Guide-status articles, but I'm not sure what to do about similar language for Wikivoyage:Country guide status, because "Go next" sections are not standard for that type of article, but the problematic "moving out" language is there. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:33, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Split out districts[edit]

Districts are notably different and have notably different requirements. I think our status-definitions should reflect that. Currently, the page Wikivoyage:Article status says that this very page also applies for districts... I'd be in favor of a new page Wikivoyage:District guide status Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:48, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

What language would you change for a "District guide status" article? Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:53, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
Well for starters the "get around" section is not part of our district article template, so it should not be required for them to become guide. Otherwise the template is nonsensical Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:05, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
The requirements merely state that there is information on how to get around within the article, and (for Stars) that the map is useful for showing same. We've never had a problem with promoting a district to Star under these guidelines. I think the differences are too small to be worth setting up a new set of status guidelines and templates. Really, all a District is is a 'city' that's part of a bigger city. Powers (talk) 23:34, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
Why isn't "Get around" part of the district article template? It seems like it should be. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:40, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
What do you think of the proposal as outlined below? What should be added? what should be axed? I think one of the reasons why districts were supposed to not need a "get around" section is that the city article already spells it out mostly (e.g. "except for downtown Atlanta is only really accessible by car", or "Berlin is accessible by subway (U-Bahn) regional heavy rail (S-Bahn) and the eastern and increasingly western parts are accessible by streetcar / tram ("Straßenbahn"), if you don't like horrible traffic, leave your car out of town" or something to that effect). This is of course not always the case, but sometimes duplicating content is not the smartest move... Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:22, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
Yes, the theory is that districts are small enough that there's nothing useful to say about how to get around. It's either "walk" or the information is already in the city article. Powers (talk) 23:46, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
That's not always the case, but it's fine for "Get around" to be optional in district articles. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:41, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Proposal[edit]

(the language can obviously be improved upon, I will for now concentrate on usable and guide, as they appear to me to be the most relevant)

Usable: The article has information where the district is (roughly) situated. It has at least one eat and sleep listing with contact information or if there are no such places in this district provides information about the closest district that does. It furthermore mentions at least one attraction to see or do

Guide: Gives a good overview of the culture and "feel" of the district with information about cuisine, accommodation and people if and where applicable. The list of attractions is well fleshed out and entice a voyager to go there. If getting around the district is not self-evident, it becomes easy after reading this guide and the location of the district and its mode of entry are clearly established.

Please note that this a first rough draft only and - as a trait that is common in my mother tongue - is probably too verbose for its own good. Please give me your feedback. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:41, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

--

I appreciate the effort but frankly, I don't see what (in practice) the huge difference is with the current set of requirements. All our sets are written in more or less the same style, I suggest we keep this one in line. If you want to have a separate set of requirements for districts instead of using the city guide set, I have no objections. But why change the whole wording? Just delete the bits that don't apply, and add a few words that would. JuliasTravels (talk) 19:27, 28 June 2015 (UTC)
I agree with Julia on this. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:29, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
Okay, than please try to reformulate it with our standard standard criteria in mind. I just don't think a "one size fits all" approach that treats districts the same as cities does indeed do any good. Hobbitschuster (talk) 10:00, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
Well, for me it's not such a bad fit, so you'll have to indicate which parts you think are such a bad match. On first glance, only the reference about districts needs to go? So:
Guide : Has different choices for accommodation and eating/drinking, and information on multiple attractions and things to do. Listings and layout closely match the manual of style. There are clear explanations of multiple ways to get in, clear information on getting around, and suggestions for where to go next, with one-liner descriptions.
Star: Has a tourist-style map, in Wikivoyage style with modifiable vector source, showing how to get around the destination, with major attractions, restaurants, etc. that match the listings in the guide. Layout and listing formats either match the manual of style exactly or are the exception that proves the rule. Any sub-articles are at least "guide" status. Prose is not only near-perfect grammatically but also tight, effective, and enjoyable. At least one good-quality photo accompanies the article; preferably 2-3 showing famous or important attractions. JuliasTravels (talk) 15:28, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
If "get in" and "get around" are both optional for our district article skeletons, than I do not think we need to mention them specifically in the criteria for guide usable and star. However, for bigger districts or districts of cities with non self-evident transportation, these sections might be needed, thus further complicating manners. Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:46, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
"Get in" is always required in every destination article. It's one of five required sections. Anyway, I think you're viewing these guidelines too strictly. We've never had a problem applying them properly to district articles. Powers (talk) 19:25, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Idea: City status expedition[edit]

Swept in from the pub

As may by now be known among some here, I recently upgraded the status of a whole bunch of district articles who were erroneously classified as outline. While probably some of those currently classified as usable are (or should be) in fact guides, the most pressing issue appears to have been resolved there. However, what about the tons of city articles? Some I assume might even end up on the vfd trash heap, while others should maybe be deleted simply for being verbatim copies of that other site. Regardless, there is currently a large number of city articles at outline and unlike country articles, it is rather easy to asses whether they merit a promotion to usable. However, this is a daunting task for the thousands of outline city articles currently in existence. I would be willing to do part of the work, but not all of it. Who would be willing to help?

To clarify: Initially there will be no (major) effort to work on the content of the articles per se just to more accurately assess them in order to make those articles that are truly problematic more evident and hence subsequent work easier.

Best wishes Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:37, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Support. We sure do have a lot of outline city article that has the four things required for usable status. I run into them all the time (and correct them), for each article it takes perhaps three seconds. The problem is, as you said, that there are thousands and thousands of articles. ϒpsilon (talk) 18:10, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
Precisely. How many people do you think would be necessary for this to be worthwhile? Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:22, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
5-10? The more, the better of course. ϒpsilon (talk) 18:32, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
If an expedition is formed to methodically go through and update article statuses then I have no objection. However, I'm concerned about the statement that "Some I assume might even end up on the vfd trash heap, while others should maybe be deleted simply for being verbatim copies of that other site". See WV:Deletion policy for guidelines on when a deletion is appropriate - if a goal of this expedition is to delete articles, particularly if the articles wouldn't normally merit deletion under existing guidelines, that would be less straightforward and I think some specific proposals about what is going to happen would be useful before any expedition started making changes. -- Ryan • (talk) • 19:13, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
Any way to have a script find everything with (1) "See" or "Do" non-blank and (2) "Eat" non-blank and (3) "Sleep" non-blank and (4) article status "outlinecity" or "outlinepark"? It would cut down the number of articles which need to be checked manually by excluding ones which actually are empty, useless skeletons. It's possible that a page which has been a victim of a CVB attack could have plenty of text, but still not be useful as it's promotional copypasta and not formatted to Wikivoyage style. K7L (talk) 19:16, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Finding empty or skeleton articles[edit]

My previous contribution seems to have been "swallowed" by a crashing browser / OS... any way... Here goes: Deletion or vfds are not the stated goal, but rather an undeniable and inevitable side-effect of looking through a large number of articles. Just like my looking through "districts" at outline status turned up some that were in fact not districts at all. If for example we find an article on a two house hamlet in the middle of nowhere with only one tout ever adding context to it and that back at the old place, I guess a deletion might have merit... Best wishes Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:22, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
As for a skeleton detecting bot... This might on the one hand be helpful in finding more pages that actually don't deserve their outline status. On the other hand some of the empty skeletons are doing no good for this page anyway. In some cases they might even be worse than a redlink. In other cases there may be better ways in which those places could be (or already are) handled. But his is a question for another time, maybe... Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:30, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
It's already settled consensus that we don't delete articles that fall within the parameters of policy just because they happen to be skeletons.
There was a single instance, a year or two ago when we were far deeper in the SEO hole than we are now, when we had a mass deletion of skeleton articles because at that time we were under the impression that we were legally required, per details of our legal settlement with IB, to include a hyperlink to WT in the attribution footer of each article. However: 1) we've since removed these footers from all our articles, thus neutralizing much of the SEO benefit of further deletions; 2) a significant portion of our community (self included) was opposed to the deletion, and, most importantly, 3) all deleted articles were (or were supposed to have been) recreated after deletion, which in my estimation is the final answer to the question of whether simply being a skeleton is a VfD-able offense for an article.
I'm not opposed to this expedition in principle (though I might note that in Wikivoyage these days, creating an Expedition around an idea seems to be one of the surest ways to make people lose interest in it). However, the thing to do with skeleton articles is for chrissakes just add a listing or two to "Buy", "See", "Eat", "Drink" or "Sleep". Aside from the obvious fact that adding more content is always beneficial to the end user of our site, it takes a minimal amount of time, and the shorter an article is the less effort is required to diverge it from its WT counterpart for SEO purposes.
-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 19:45, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
The problem is that while being an empty skeleton is not a deletable offense per se, it might indicate that the article covers a place with little in the way to make it worth an article. Hence it is neither a sufficient nor a necessary condition for deletion but a good first hint. If you catch my drift... Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:52, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
An article that is about a place that isn't article-worthy should be redirected, not deleted - see Wikivoyage:Deletion policy#Deleting vs. redirecting. If a goal of this expedition is to identify articles that should be merged or redirected elsewhere that's fine, but if the goal is to generate VFD nominations for articles that wouldn't normally get deleted then I think there will be a lot of pushback. -- Ryan • (talk) • 20:09, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
So basically any article can be redirected without any sort of process beforehand? After all merge (even if there is nothing to merge) and redirect is a common outcome of the vfd process... Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:12, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
Except in obvious cases it's usually polite to start a talk page discussion prior to redirecting (see Wikivoyage:How to merge two pages#Discuss for a related topic). Most "merge and redirect" VFD results occur when the nominator failed to read WV:Deletion policy#Deleting vs. redirecting ("if it is a real place, redirect rather than delete"). -- Ryan • (talk) • 22:03, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Finding promotable outline articles[edit]

It looks like there are two different questions here, (1) how to find articles marked "outlinecity" which meet the basic criteria (something to see or do, somewhere to eat, somewhere to sleep) for possible promotion to "usable" status vs. (2) how to find skeletons of an "'''X''' is in [[Y]] {{subst:smallcity}}" level of uselessness for merging to valid destinations or nomination for deletion. These are two entirely separate questions. The suggestion that a script could find and list (but not automatically promote) pages where the sections are filled out but the status is still "outline" was intended to address (1). K7L (talk) 20:23, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

It may be a good solution for issue (1), but I don't know whether a bot does in fact justify the effort needed for its creation... Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:31, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
You do realise that we currently have 13714 outlinecities? K7L (talk) 21:06, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
Well I have not the slightest idea how much effort such a bot would take to write. Did I mention on occasion that I am not that good with computers? Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:09, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
There are actually less than 2000 articles that have the correct listing that could be moved from outline to usable, but enough for a little project click here then press Do It at the bottom of the page. --Traveler100 (talk) 03:25, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
Interesting. If the criteria are "something to see or do, somewhere to eat and somewhere to sleep" that would be this (2250 towns and cities) and this (26 parks). It might be possible to narrow this a bit by excluding pages with {{cleanup}}, {{vfd}} or other issues from the list of promotion candidates. It looks like some of what this finds is promotable, some is badly formatted (listings in wrong sections, touting, other issues which need fixing first) and some pages were demoted or held back due to issues which had since been fixed. K7L (talk) 04:10, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
Note that the article also needs to have some information on getting in to be usable. ϒpsilon (talk) 04:38, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
True, and if you want to do a proper job I suggest doing this: User:Traveler100/outlinetousable#What this involves. --Traveler100 (talk) 04:46, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
While efforts to improve our many outline articles are great, I think we should not start focussing on articles that just meet the technical criteria and promoting them to usable. While we might call an article usable with 3 or 4 listings and a mention of the main road, almost all readers will find it completely lacking and will go to another site with more information. In the end, it's all about content and cleanup, because the status change itself has no real effect on readers. I'd suggest determining a workable sub-group, say the 500 best developed outlines. When singling out the best and easiest outline articles to improve (so not half-empty), including a minimum article size in the search might be helpful. Having a banner also helps a lot for the "look" of the article. Perhaps this effort can join forces with some of our banner creators? Lastly, expeditions are rarely successful for this kind of thing, especially when the task is so huge. This might perhaps be a better candidate for a collaboration of the month, if we can narrow the number far down? JuliasTravels (talk) 09:31, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
While those are good ideas User:JuliasTravels, I would like to explicitly focus on the more mundane task of getting stuff into the right category. The bar for "usable" is low by design so that it does not take all that much effort to get an article up to said status. We are not trying to promote anything to guide here. This might be the next step, but I think this is rather done on a country by country or region by region basis as it requires some actual real knowledge of the places rather than technical knowledge of how listings should look like and what information is needed for getting in eating and sleeping. As I have seen with our district articles, approximately half of our current outlines need not be outlines if we apply our own criteria. This is both frustrating for our editing purposes and hindering for people wishing to do upkeep and maintenance tasks. If there is an article tagged as a stub, I know immediately that it has big problems. Outlines may range in quality widely. The end goal should be a list of outline articles that are unusable by any definition of the term and on which further efforts of any kind can more efficiently be focused. Maybe through an "adopt a outline" program or simply through upgrading the "Random Article" tool to filter by status, so that you can find a random outline. If you want, you can of course first look through our usable cities and see whether some of those deserve demotion. Right now this would be a task doable by one or two people with time on their hand. Once we sifted through all outline cities, this will be much harder. Hobbitschuster (talk) 10:56, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
There are obviously no objections to systematically reviewing and updating the status of outlines within policy. While your suggestion would put articles in the "right" status-category, I'm just not entirely sure how it helps maintenance, or why outline articles with usable content are a hindrance. Anyway, it's perfectly fine to sift through them. If you're looking to get people involved in a time-consuming project however, it helps if there's a clear vision of the actual benefit for the site, for readers or SEO. I'm just worried that AndreCarrotflower is right in his somewhat pessimistic view of expeditions, hence my suggestion to come up with clear and feasible boundaries. It was just a suggestion though :) JuliasTravels (talk) 13:52, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
If before upgrading from outline to usable the listings were checked and enhanced I believe that would be beneficial. Removing old listings, fixing bad links and adding addresses and coordinates would not just benefit the reader but also improve the search engine ranking of the page. --Traveler100 (talk) 15:16, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── I think the janitorial work that promoting the articles mostly boils down to is extremely important as it allows to more accurately assess the quality (and quantity) of our coverage and where we are lacking. Right now the status designation "outline" means "nobody bothered to upgrade yet" more often than not. And checking the listings (besides things that a bot could do) would be rather hard to do in cases of listings without websites. Of course touting may be discovered as a (positive) side effect as well.... Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:15, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

When I upgrade from outline to usable I will click on all the links to check they are still active and correct where necessary. For the other listings a quick check on google maps generally shows the attraction/hotel/restaurant and will be labelled as "closed" (as apposed to "closed today") if no longer exists. Then maybe quick search on Yahoo if not found by Google. As a final check if that is inconclusive I go to Yelp and TripAdvisor and if I find the reviews are older than 3 or 4 years with nothing newer I assume closed and remove the listing. --Traveler100 (talk) 15:34, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
The usual signs of a "closed" business: main website dead or cybersquatted, a once-active timeline on Facebook/Twitter and the like has no new updates for years, a web search for "(company name) closed" finds local news of a bankruptcy or the business marked closed on some other site (like Yelp), a telephone call gets a recorded intercept error or somebody's private residence (a one-minute test call on VoIP is a penny or two to most developed nations). Usually a venue won't go out of its way to announce its closure (unlike the hype when it opened) but anything that has to be renewed monthly or annually (such as phones, web domains or paid directory adverts) quietly stops getting renewed. Some other company might pop up at the same physical address, but that's hard to spot as one doesn't always know who had that place first. K7L (talk) 15:23, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

So where are we?[edit]

Will there be any type of collaboration and what will it look like? Maybe we can make it the cooperation of the month September as I gather more people will have time by than... Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:11, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

The main goal is to do this for appropriate articles, right? Looking at the lists above, and considering how many (tens of thousands) of pages I've rated at the English Wikipedia over the years, I have these suggestions:
  • "Just do it" for the list of 46 parks. It's a short list, and one person could easily do it. Even if you spent a significant amount of time checking every link, etc., it's probably less than one full day's work for an experienced contributor.
  • The list of 2250 cities should probably be processed twice:
    • The first step is little more than a cursory glance, for the purpose changing the "obviously wrong" labels. That will probably require about 40 hours of work. In terms of collaboration, if we could get four people to work on it, then we can have one start at "A" and work down, one start at "M" and work up, the third start at "M" and work down, and the last start at "Z" and work up. Stop when you seem to have encountered pages that the next person checked.
      This is a pretty quick, high-reward process. It should take about one minute per page: Open page, check four sections, see if it obviously meets or exceeds the bare minimum, and change the tag. Move on to the next one. It's a bit repetitive but it's not hard. However, that quick, easy look is the most important step in terms of getting things rated correctly overall. You'll get more value out of fixing ratings on the obvious cases than in waffling (or arguing) over how to classify the borderline cases.
    • Weeding out the "obviously wrong" classifications will reduce the workload for people who are willing to be more thorough. They'll benefit from having a list that is more focused on the ones that require attention. This should be done after the first, quick pass has completed.
Also, in response to a comment above: correct ratings encourage contributors. I've done a lot of article assessment work, and when things are assessed lower than the author expected, then they often feel discouraged. For some contributors, a "good" rating is taken as a sign of appreciation and approval. It's worth spending a little bit of time on this, even if it weren't seen by non-editing readers. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:46, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
I like your idea, and as a matter of fact at first my intention was nothing but the "first round". Which as you rightly point out, should be a cooperative effort for the city category at least Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:50, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
I'm doing the handful of cities that are outside of the "A to Z" list. Široki Brijeg looks borderline to me (lots of places, but almost no addresses or other contact information), but the others look like they can all be promoted to usable. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:52, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

How relevant are geo-coordinates for an article's status?[edit]

Quy_Nhon looks like a well researched article, but it is completely lacking geo-locations.

Is there any guidance to this? Are geo-locations important factors in determining an article's usability or are they completely optional? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 22:55, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

I wouldn't suggest requiring Geo for Usable status, but where street addresses themselves aren't sufficient, we could require them for Guide status. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:57, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
Yes, but Quy_Nhon is nominated for Star. Are coordinates completely optional in this case? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 06:37, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
I'm not sure. Are they all clearly indicated on the static map? If so, I'd consider that sufficient. However, a point of view was expressed that the map is not too usable, so that seems to be a disputed issue. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:16, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
As there were no dynamic maps back when the status criteria were created, it's no surprise coordinates aren't mentioned at the status page. I think it would make sense to require (new) guide articles to have coordinates; personally I never upgrade articles I'm "responsible" for to guide status before I've added them. That said, I would also not be a huge fan of a campaign to demote guide articles to usable if the only problem is that they lack coordinates... ϒpsilon (talk) 08:49, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
Yes tricky. To be clear I'm not actually advocating having coordinates included for article quality grading, just wondering if they were a consideration at all? I guess not. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 09:28, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
As of now coordinates aren't required for guide status and I'm also fine with that. ϒpsilon (talk) 09:55, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
I agree. Sounds reasonable. I would consider coordinates as "nice to have" as well. -- DerFussi 10:18, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Cities to usable[edit]

Swept in from the pub

Here's something to do if you're bored/looking at random Wikivoyage articles. If you're looking at a city article that is tagged outline, check if there's information for how to get there, at least one attraction, one place to eat and one place to sleep, each with directions/contact information. If the article has all these, tag it as usable.

Unlike other statuses and articles where you have to read the article more carefully, this takes only a few seconds. About half (13,633) of all the articles we have (27,340) are outline cities, and I stumble upon outlines that can be upgraded to usable almost every day, so it means there's a lot of them left and you can help out. ϒpsilon (talk) 08:26, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

Wikivoyage:City guide status is your reference for city articles. What ϒpsilon says is accurate, but I would also say that the requirements for Usable status include the requirements for Outline status, so it should also have an introductory paragraph (or at least sentence) and a standard city article template (basically as shown at Wikivoyage:Quick small city article template or other quick city article templates, or at the very least one with at least Get in, Get around, See, Eat and Sleep sections). Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:46, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
Just check the listing are still valid first though, some places could have closed since the article was created. And if you want to add a little more quality to the article take a look at these suggestions and go to the next level. --Traveler100 (talk) 12:29, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
Some time ago I did that for (at the time) all outline districts... I also tried it for outline airports, but they are a somewhat tougher nut due in part to WV:sleepthere and the decision not to list hotels outside airport grounds... Generally reducing the number of outline articles is a very worthwhile and good idea and perhaps the single most efficient way to improve google ranks readership and writership... Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:28, 17 June 2016 (UTC)
As a suggestion, pick a region. Here is an example how to get a list: outline that could be usable by region. --Traveler100 (talk) 12:34, 25 June 2016 (UTC)