Talk:2019–2020 coronavirus pandemic

From Wikivoyage
Jump to navigation Jump to search

Face masks[edit]

Swept in from the pub

There is current discussion on what advice to give on face masks at Talk:China#New_coronavirus. I think the topic is broader than that, so I am raising it here.

There are multiple uses for masks.

  • I was in China during the SARS outbreak & had one then. Now many people use them against the new coronavirus; in parts of China it is even mandatory to wear face masks in public places. I doubt this offers much protection if you are not infected but am reasonably sure that if those who are infected cover up it reduces risk for others. I could be wrong on either point & would like to hear from those more knowledgeable.
  • People are using masks to avoid inhaling volcanic dust from the eruption of Taal Volcano.
  • They are often recommended for dust storms, e.g. see Beijing#Stay_healthy

There are several types of mask:

  • surgical masks, I think treated as single-use disposable items by surgeons but often re-used by others
  • N95 masks, see w:NIOSH air filtration rating
  • at least in the Philippines, reusable masks with some kind of fashion statement design -- wolf muzzle, vampire fangs, Hello Kitty, ... -- are fairly common

My guess is we need a discussion of these masks somewhere -- new travel topic? section of Infectious diseases or Travel in developing countries? elsewhere? -- and links in other articles. Pashley (talk) 04:25, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Availability may be a problem. I've seen a "no more masks in stock" sign in a Filipino pharmacy and there are web reports like this: Sold-out Amazon sellers warn shoppers about counterfeit face masks as demand soars amid coronavirus fears Pashley (talk) 04:35, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
Actually, it can be confirmed that wearing surgical masks prevent the spread of diseases to some extent, as per this NYT report and this BBC report. However, it should be stressed that it is surgical masks, as normal dust masks are too loose.廣九直通車 (talk) 09:46, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
I agree that this might be a topic for us to cover. Cultural attitudes to masks vary as well – in parts of East Asia it's reasonably common to wear a mask when you have a cold, but not in the US. One challenge is that there seems to be some uncertainty about how effective surgical masks really are at stopping viruses.
Availability is indeed a problem. I'm in Cambodia, where there is only one confirmed case of the novel coronavirus, but even so surgical masks have become hard to find, let alone N95 masks. Hand sanitizer is also sold out at most pharmacies I've checked. —Granger (talk · contribs) 01:02, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
We have some existing content about face masks: Wildfires#Risks, Air pollution#Stay safe, and Severe weather#Air pollution, plus some notoriously smoggy destinations. WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:59, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
Official position of the WHO is that face masks for asymptomatic individuals is not recommended at this time due to the lack of evidence that it'll prevent infection. Face masks are, however, indicated for symptomatic individuals to prevent spread. Best thing asymptomatic people can do is hand hygiene and social distancing.Thuegh (talk) 04:02, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Move[edit]

The title of this article is too ambiguous. There are different kinds of coronaviruses; the world has seen outbreaks of other kinds in the past and will surely see others in the future. I suggest moving this article to COVID-19, COVID-19 outbreak, or maybe 2020 coronavirus outbreak. —Granger (talk · contribs) 05:38, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

@DaGizza: Thanks for creating the article, by the way. —Granger (talk · contribs) 05:40, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia calls it the 2019-2020 coronavirus outbreak. We could use the same name and redirect the official names. Gizza (roam) 05:57, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
Agree with Mx. Granger and name change to 2019-2020 Coronavirus outbreak. May then want to change it to COVID-19 when/if this is over. Thanks for the article creation. I'll keep it on my watchlist - topic relevant to my work. Thuegh (talk) 06:30, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

2019-2020 coronavirus outbreak sounds good to me. Of course we can always move it again later on if other terms become more recognizable. —Granger (talk · contribs) 06:35, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

Page banner...[edit]

This should be changed to the one article like the Zika one use, as it's health related. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:08, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

I was going to try to create a banner from a picture of one of the bottles of hand sanitizer that have appeared in public places around Bangkok. Maybe more directly relevant than the banner at Zika virus. We can see how it turns out – I took some photos today but haven't tried cropping them to banner size yet. —Granger (talk · contribs) 10:33, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
Option 1 - general disease banner
Option 2 - hand sanitizer at a mall in Bangkok
Here are two banners for comparison. I had a harder time than expected making a 7:1 photo where the hand sanitizer is recognizable without a lot of other distracting stuff filling up the frame. —Granger (talk · contribs) 12:58, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
Personally banner 2 for me since it aligns with messaging about hand hygiene.Thuegh (talk) 14:14, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
Banner 2 personally. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:27, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

Pandemic Preparedness?[edit]

Current switch in key messages in several countries including the US, UK, and Canada is now onto pandemic preparedness for COVID-19. Think a section on what you can do for this is valuable? It's less travel related, although you can argue that it's also generalized to the measures needed to be taken if you're being quarantined/isolated. Thuegh (talk) 14:12, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

Could you give some examples of what you're thinking of? —Granger (talk · contribs) 15:35, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
Stocking up on non-perishable food for up to 2 weeks if quarantined. Refilling prescription medications in advance. Stocking some household cleaning supplies. Making plans for your children/dependents. Thuegh (talk) 16:38, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
To me most of that doesn't feel like travel advice - it's not realistic for a traveler to lug around 2 weeks of food and cleaning supplies. Also, advice seems to vary. —Granger (talk · contribs) 00:24, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
Fair enough. I was thinking more about for when you return from a trip and the potential for self quarantine. Restrictions are changing day to day, so between the time you leave and the time you come back, there may be quarantine restrictions for the locale from which travelers returned from.Thuegh (talk) 02:18, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

Louvre[edit]

Apparently the Louvre is closed. Should we mention this somewhere, like in France or Paris/1st arrondissement? Or should we just mention in this article that lots of tourist attractions and events are closed in countries affected by the outbreak? —Granger (talk · contribs) 15:34, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

I'd keep it centralized to this article. Likely other attractions will be closed if this keeps on going. The Duomo in Milan and various other museums are also closed. Lots in Tokyo too. Thuegh (talk) 16:42, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
At what point do we know if the Olympics is still happening? That's sufficiently major that people will be make bookings or already have... ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:16, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
As of today, still happening. I'm sure it'll be big news if it gets cancelled.Thuegh (talk) 17:35, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

A WHO video[edit]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KBvReECRrI ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:31, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

UK Gov advice (this appears to be being update continually[edit]

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:50, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

"Present on all continents"[edit]

Including Antarctica? Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:35, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

The news reports I've seen say "every continent except Antarctica". —Granger (talk · contribs) 00:48, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
So that's what this article should say, too. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:18, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Staying healthy on flights[edit]

The New York Times published an article about avoiding infection on a flight. Maybe some of the advice could go here or in Flight and health. —Granger (talk · contribs) 13:38, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

Please do. At present the article is a little light on actual travel advice. I thought of adding some info on booking flights, but the consumer protection aspects vary depending on which country you are in when you book. AlasdairW (talk) 20:46, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
I have added some. But when it comes to prevention, there's not much to say that's specific to this virus. The advice is mostly the same as for other respiratory diseases. When it comes to travel restrictions (quarantines, self-quarantines, temperature checks, denied entry, transport shutdowns, etc.) there's more that we can say. I think advice about booking flights would be good if there's anything reasonably general. —Granger (talk · contribs) 02:14, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
Regardless of whether advice would also pertain to other respiratory diseases, it should be mentioned here, since we have no general "Respiratory diseases" article and people are very reasonably quite worried about this disease right now. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:22, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
Fair enough, and I think that's what we've been doing. We do have some basic advice in the relevant section of Infectious diseases; going forward we may want to expand that with some of the information from this article. —Granger (talk · contribs) 11:42, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Will COVID-19 go away on its own in warmer weather?[edit]

"Probably not" --Ypsilon (talk) 07:02, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

Lasts on surfaces up to 9 days?[edit]

Where are you getting 9 days from? Have a look at this. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:00, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

I don't know who added the "9 days" claim to this article, but the source you linked seems to support it. —Granger (talk · contribs) 03:12, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
6-9 days on plastic only for Strain FFM1 of SARS-CoV and not Strain HKU39849 or Strain P9, yes. So yes, strictly speaking, "up to 9 days" is accurate, but "on surfaces" in the plural doesn't appear to be, unless there's another source that shows the persistence of any strain of up to 9 days on any other surface. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:32, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

New research on surfaces. I would take the aerosol numbers with a grain of salt given it's within a contained experimental rotating drum and not indicative of real life.Thuegh (talk) 18:32, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

The study I linked didn't actually have data on the persistence of SARS-CoV2, only other related coronaviruses. I misread SARS-CoV on their charts for SARS-CoV2. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:19, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Border closures...[edit]

Been hearing some nominally Schengen countires are closing borders? If this is so it should be mentioned.. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:20, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/coronavirus-as-eu-borders-are-shut-cross-border-workers-feel-the-pain/ar-BB116yLp ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:21, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Catalonia in lockdown...[edit]

https://www.catalannews.com/politics/item/government-announces-lockdown-on-whole-of-catalonia

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:45, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

The U.S.[edit]

Should we mention anything specific to the U.S. regarding the coronavirus. To my knowledge, there is a severe lack of testing kits in the U.S., meaning that the authorities here have not been able to test everybody who is at high risk, so the real number of cases is probably much higher than the official number. The U.S. has tested fewer people over the past month than South Korea is able to test in a single day, so that is a cause for concern. And not to mention, some parts are going into lockdown. Here in Chicago, events are already getting cancelled, and we have already been advised to work from home if possible. The dog2 (talk) 03:11, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

I don't think that's lockdown. Most events in New York have been cancelled. There's a state of emergency here, but there isn't a lockdown, which would mean that you can't get in or out of the city, right? Anyway, the rest of your remarks are all true, and you could simply add those verbatim. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:14, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
It hasn't gotten to that extent yet, but you can already see the effects, with the supermarket shelves virtually empty as people start panic buying. And it's sad to say this, but the U.S. is woefully unprepared for this. The dog2 (talk) 03:52, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

US ban on travel extended to cover UK and Ireland...[edit]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51891662

88.97.96.89 20:49, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

South Africa....[edit]

South Africa is another country to close it's border.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/mar/15/coronavirus-latest-updates-trump-tests-negative-as-spain-orders-nationwide-lockdown-uk-us-australia-italy-europe-global-economy?CMP=share_btn_tw&page=with:block-5e6e79148f085c6327bc05ea#block-5e6e79148f085c6327bc05ea

88.97.96.89 18:59, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Netherlands...[edit]

https://nltimes.nl/2020/03/15/schools-cafes-businesses-closed-apr-6-coronavirus-spread-pm-address-nation ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:45, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Germany (Translator needed?)[edit]

https://www.br.de/nachrichten/deutschland-welt/deutschland-macht-grenzen-wegen-corona-krise-zum-teil-dicht,RtJd8Xp ? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:46, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Translating this with Chrome, from 8am Monday, they are partially closing the border with Austria, France, Switzerland, Luxembourg and Denmark. Commuters and goods (and presumably those driving goods vehicles) will be allowed in. AlasdairW (talk) 22:10, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
Germany is temporarily closing their borders with Austria, France, Switzerland, Luxembourg and Denmark for others than German citizens, work commuters and cargo transport. 94.191.129.214 22:16, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
"Reisende ohne triftigen Reisegrund dürfen deshalb nicht mehr ein- und ausreisen aus Deutschland." — Travellers without convincing/valid reasons for travel are not permitted to enter or leave Germany. 94.191.129.214 22:21, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
"Ab morgen Früh 8 Uhr wird die Bundespolizei die Kontrollen an den Grenzen zu fünf Nachbarländern durchführen." — Effective 08:00 AM tomorrow morning (16 March 2020) the Federal Police will commence controls at the borders of five neighbouring countries. 94.191.129.214 22:25, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

UK is closed ...[edit]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51917562 —The preceding comment was added by ShakespeareFan00 (talkcontribs)

And all Baltic states, Poland, Norway, Denmark, within a few days probably Finland... I think there are few countries in Europe without some kind of border controls or closures right now. Maybe best to add them to 2019–2020_coronavirus_pandemic#Lockdowns_and_other_internal_restrictions. --Ypsilon (talk) 18:07, 16 March 2020 (UTC)
The UK is NOT closed. The only mention on the UKBF website was information from last month on visa extensions for visitors from China who were already in the country. At the moment the biggest issue for visitors is the reduction in flights and events are being cancelled. We must distinguish between politician's bluster and actual controls at the border. AlasdairW (talk) 20:53, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Canadian government website out of date?[edit]

https://travel.gc.ca/travelling/registration still says registration can be done facetoface. I bet this is probably a website that is not maintained on a daily basis, something goverments should do during this crisisis. Just my opinion Ottawahitech (talk) 10:23, 20 March 2020 (UTC)

Focus![edit]

This page is trying to describe current events so it's overwhelmed by them, overlaps too much with WP, and only tells prospective travellers what they already know. But travel (especially for WV) is all about planning, so it would help to raise our eyes from the present deluge, look further ahead, and concentrate on the macro stuff. We've had three months of this so we can reasonably distinguish what is barndoor obvious (eg if you keep doubling a given number, and doubling and doubling) from those unknowns where you need to listen out. I'm inserting two sections accordingly then pausing for comment on whether this helps. Initially they'll be a bit rough-hewn and not well integrated with other content, but that will be easily sorted if the page focus is sharp and agreed. Grahamsands (talk) 11:27, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

I don't think that this kind of speculation is useful on a prominent page. I am not even sure that all of it belongs on this talk page, but this is where it should start. If we agree that there are clear evidence based arguments for any of the points, then thay can be put on the page. AlasdairW (talk) 14:39, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
Let's also try to focus on practical advice relevant to travellers. Detailed understanding of the rationale and goals of public health policy is important but not for Wikivoyage. —Granger (talk · contribs) 15:03, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
Just to put this out there, I don't think speculation belongs here, but for anything that is scientifically verified and useful for the general public to know, we should have it here. If anyone needs help, I'm happy to read medical and scientific journal articles to verify information. I have access to them through my workplace. The dog2 (talk) 15:52, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
A good place to start is what WHO is publishing, but if you feel my stuff is speculative, you'll need to avert your eyes from their figures, estimates and projections. There are conversations to be had elsewhere about editorial principles and priorities for other pages thru the crisis, and on how WV can be best positioned for the future. Because you may not want to hear this, but need to grasp: this is an existential threat to the entire travel and leisure sector, including travel publications. WV as an online free collaboration is in a much better place than most but is not exempt, and the tenor of responses here gives little cause for optimism. Grahamsands (talk) 15:34, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
I think there's a chance this will change the travel industry as we know it, but people will still travel in the future (and indeed people are still traveling now), which means that Wikivoyage will still have a purpose. If you want to discuss Wikivoyage's future in light of COVID-19, we can do that. Personally I think it's too early to get very far on that topic—too much is unknown.
As for the article content issue: projections and planning for the future are important, but the focus of our articles has always been practical advice for travelers, not Wikivoyage editors' analyses of complex and uncertain future trends. —Granger (talk · contribs) 23:54, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
Grahamsands, what tone would you like us to have? I'm interested to hear more of your thoughts. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:01, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
Different person responding here... I don't think we need to speculate on the course of the pandemic itself, but I'd love to see some speculation on how it will affect travel. How might airlines be affected long term? When will people be able to resume limited vacation travel with added precautions, or unrestricted travel like before the virus? With many people stuck at home accumulating vacation time that they can't use while slowly going stir crazy, might we expect a travel and vacation boom in the next year or so? --Bigpeteb (talk) 18:27, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
Maybe Wikivoyage should have a blog for that sort of thing, travel opinions and experiences etc. I'm not really comfortable putting speculation about the future into our articles, unless they're very brief and/or have basis in some actual facts.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:43, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
I definitely agree. Any speculation about the medium-to-long-term effect of this pandemic on the travel industry would be highly speculative. We have no way of knowing how long this pandemic will rage and how many people it will kill. Speculation would be both ignorant and irresponsible. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:53, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
As long as there is no effective vaccine, the travel industry is closed for business. Nobody wants to travel a world where the virus keeps bouncing back. An effective vaccine distributed to all corners of the world has a time frame of 1 to 1½ years. Some scientists are speculating that there are two versions of the virus. 94.191.141.30 20:04, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
Actually, the coronavirus is known to mutate in a fast pace. A mapping study on Iceland made by the private company DeCode Genetics, where almost 10,000 persons were tested for the coronavirus, shows, that 40 mutations specific for Iceland exist. Some persons are infected with multiple of these mutations from different stages of the mutation process. Clusters can be traced to Austria, Italy and the UK. 48 of the tested persons have not shown any symptoms at all. Source in the Danish language. 94.191.141.30 21:12, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── the difference between the two strains is tiny and for now, a single vaccine would be able to cover both strains ([1]). Also the mutation rate is about 2 to 4 times slower than the flu ([2]). Not that it is relevant for this page. Gizza (roam) 21:19, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

I take no joy in predicting this, but the smart money says that long before the pandemic itself recedes or a vaccine becomes available, defiance among the public will become too widespread, and stay-at-home regulations too unenforceable, for world governments to have any choice but to call off the lockdowns, especially as winter ends in the Northern Hemisphere and the weather becomes more outdoor-friendly. This is obviously not ideal from an epidemiological perspective, but admittedly very much in tune with human beings' status as social animals who are neither psychologically wired for long periods of isolation nor particularly adept at wise decision-making. Anecdotally, even before this morning when Trump and other right-wing elements of the U.S. government began test-marketing their new "cure can't be worse than the disease" line in earnest, I was already noticing a distinct shift in tone in the online comment-o-sphere. At any rate, I think predictions of the imminent death of the travel industry are highly premature. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 21:47, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
It is indeed hard to predict. Some countries are more collectivist and do not care about personal freedoms to the extent of other countries. It also depends on how close it hits home. The moment someone's friend or family member dies from the virus (especially if the person who died wasn't that old), that person will be become fearful and more willing to comply with isolation. It will vary at the individual level too. But yes, nearly every industry will recover from this. If tourism recovered from two World Wars, the Great Depression and most aptly, the Spanish Flu, travel and the rest of the economy will get out of this challenge too. Having said that, unlike planes which have improved their ventilation systems over time, cruise ships are stuck in the 50s and seriously need to upgrade their ventilation systems close to modern medical standards so that 99% of viruses and bacteria floating around the ship are killed through the filtering system. Otherwise, the cruise industry will never recover. Gizza (roam) 22:11, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
(GS reply to IK) Future of the travel sector and of WV for me are currently on the “unknown unknowns” list. So they just need acknowledging as big coming topics – let’s start a thread in the pub, though it may become very long and labyrinthine. Coming back to the content of this particular page, I am concerned that looking ahead is being equated with speculation. Why are all the hotels and restaurants shut in your town right now – did you not see that coming? We wouldn’t be wrangling like this if we were in the first-affected areas of China, Iran and Italy. There the crisis is already upon them. Their way of life has been swept aside, and for many their life itself.
But the English-speaking countries are not there yet. The travel and leisure restrictions are infuriating but covid illness and deaths are just something on the news feed, not our personal experience. The sun is shining, in the northern hemisphere winter is ending and the birds are singing. Town is strangely quiet, but it just feels like an extra public holiday, and the threat is all media / political flimflam. It’s so easy and comforting to equate “two months from now” with doom-laden rumour-mongering.
But travellers need help to plan. For instance, are the Olympics going ahead in July? The IOC doesn’t like “speculation”, so they’ve kicked the can away down the road. They’ve thereby lost credibility and events will no longer be in their hands. Others – governments, sports organisations, travel providers and individual travellers – all will make their own decisions. Are there some known factors that they should compute into those decisions? Yes just a few: the method and rapidity of spread, the severity if you catch it, the prospect of other prevention that would make current restrictions unnecessary, the circumstances in which those restrictions might be relaxed . . . if only this stuff could be collated in some sort of easily readable online travel guide? And what other nasty surprises are further down the line? These concepts are not complex, and I was expecting a spirited discussion on how best to lay them before the travelling public. Instead what I’m hearing is a great gasp of horror that the subject’s been broached. Grahamsands (talk) 22:08, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
12 months as a timeline for a vaccine is ignorant. A 14-month study of a vaccine just recently started in Australia. If it proves safe and effective, it will take time after that to ramp up production and distribute it widely. In the meantime, the best hope is for effective drug treatments to be made available. It's hard to know how long that will take, but it's at least distinctly possible that we're talking a matter of months in that regard. I hope it can be sooner, but even during a pandemic, it's important to make sure treatments are not only effective but safe. Chloroquine, for example, is a drug with lots of possible side effects, but perhaps the worst is poisoning from an overdose. I'd really like to know what doses they're using experimentally, but I haven't found out that information for chloroquine so far. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:11, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
"Why are all the hotels and restaurants shut in your town right now – did you not see that coming?" Yes, I surely did, and it should have happened sooner. "covid illness and deaths are just something on the news feed, not our personal experience." Speak for yourself! Several friends of mine in New York and Berlin are currently suffering from COVID-19 or recovering from it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:15, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
Grahamsands, if you want to talk about help to plan travel, that's fine and should be discussed somewhere, but not in a thread covering a pandemic. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:28, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
Grahamsands, you say "We wouldn’t be wrangling like this if we were in the first-affected areas of China, Iran and Italy." You might be interested to know that I've been living in China for most of the past two years, and was there for part of this month. Some good friends of mine are in China right now. So I know that, while the crisis is not over in China, life goes on. Some tourist attractions are reopening and domestic travel has resumed. My favorite baozi shop has reopened, and one of my friends is planning to fly across the country this week. I don't want to minimize the severity of the problem—some countries are going to be more severely affected than China, and even China is still a long way from being back to normal. And I don't want to minimize the very difficult experience that many people are going through right now. But let's not declare the end of the travel industry yet. —Granger (talk · contribs) 00:43, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
The travel industry as such wouldn't die out, at least in the long run, but many businesses in the hospitality and tourism industry will go bankrupt or run into serious trouble. For example Norwegian Air Shuttle, one of Europe's biggest low cost airlines got problems when the Boeing 737 MAX planes were grounded a year ago and now reports say the corona epidemic could be the final blow to the company. So there are going to be less capacity in these sectors (the planes still exist, hotel and restaurant facilities still exist but new businesses won't open overnight). Not to speak of unemployment in these sectors – former employees (and for small businesses, employers too) who will have their income slashed, can't afford to travel like before.
If the corona epidemic would go on for a longer time, say a year or more, then we're probably talking about permanent damage to people's interest in traveling. --Ypsilon (talk) 10:10, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
I've opened a new thread in the pub where we can discuss the long term view, while keeping this page focused on the near-to-medium term. Granger, what you are saying is crucial. What I earlier sought to argue, and you are demonstrating, is that restrictions may relax even though the threat has not receded. This relaxation may take different forms as the different first-affected countries come out of the initial shock. It seems relevant to say so on WV, and while other sources are not saying so then people may read it here first. They'd be glad that they stumbled upon WV. And to those like your good self and Ikan Kekek, who are deeper into this than most, my very best wishes for the health and wellbeing of you and all your family, associates and livelihood. Grahamsands (talk) 10:53, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
I think the article could say that the timeline for restrictions is unclear and will vary by country. That's grounded in what we already know, not too speculative. —Granger (talk · contribs) 12:55, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Advice to return home[edit]

Apparently, my government has just issued advice that all UK citizens abroad should return 'home' immediately. Is this something we should mention, and if so have other governments issued similar recommendations for their citizens? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:21, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

It should be mentioned somewhere. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:54, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
I think most countries are doing this, see this article about New Zealand. Canada announced a loan program for travellers who need to borrow money to get home. AlasdairW (talk) 19:30, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
Well, it is really late for that call. Worldwide flights have dropped about 40% since 12 March 2020. Many countries have already closed their airspace. 94.191.141.30 19:34, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
I added something to this effect last week. Indeed, many countries have made these recommendations. And yes, in some cases it may be too late. For instance the US embassy in Montevideo is now advising Americans there to prepare in case they "need to remain in Uruguay for an extended period of time." —Granger (talk · contribs) 00:47, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
  • Actually there are still a large number of snowbirds (Canadians who spend the winter in the USA). They are arriving by car in large numbers, and according to news sources not heeding the request to stay home to self-isolate for 14 days. Ottawahitech (talk) 03:08, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Apparently there are a significant number of travellers who didn't make it home in time. CNN reports that from the U.S. alone, there are 13,500 citizens abroad currently seeking government assistance. —Granger (talk · contribs) 20:20, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Prevention advice - method of payment[edit]

I think we should add advice under the prevention to use contactless function of debit/credit cards where possible. Some stores in Britain have advised it and discouraged (even banned in some cases) the use of cash. --90.204.150.129 09:39, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

canadians abroad[edit]

I just saw the tail-end of something on ctv: email address: x@ International.gc.ca there was also a phone # that I did not mange to capture. Anyone? Ottawahitech (talk) 18:53, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, what are you asking? Can you rephrase/explain? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 19:50, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
I imagine it must be a phone number and email address for Canadians abroad to contact for assistance related to the pandemic and travel shutdown. I suggest looking at the relevant Canadian government website or contacting your nearest Canadian embassy or consulate. —Granger (talk · contribs) 20:12, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
@ThunderingTyphoons! Oops sorry for missing your question. Yes as @Mx. Granger says, this was an ad for Canadians abroad providing a phone number and email address to contact for assistance related to the pandemic. I haven't looked recently, but last I looked https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection/latest-travel-health-advice.html did not have up to date info. Ottawahitech (talk) 21:30, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Migrant workers in British Columbia[edit]

I never thought of farm workers as travellers, but now I realize some are. In a recent article COVID-19 outbreak investigated at West Kelowna plant nursery, they are talking about outbreak of COVID-19 involving a group of temporary foreign workers in West Kelowna. The CBC reports that 4,500 migrant workers are needed every year to work Okanagan fields and orchards.

Does wv consider the needs of so-called temporary foreign workers? Just curious. Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 22:29, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

Wikivoyage articles have some information for foreign workers. Work visas and work-related "Stay safe" issues are sometimes covered in the relevant sections. Some articles have a "Work" section, and we have a few articles specifically about working abroad (such as Working abroad, Teaching English, Working in China, and Working in the United States). In general, though, our core audience is short-term visitors (thus, "Sleep" sections don't usually include advice on leasing an apartment). —Granger (talk · contribs) 22:42, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

Link to this page from Meta? - help please[edit]

I would like to post a link to this page from m:Coronation#Sister projects, but I don't know what letter goes in front of the ":".

Am I making sense? Ottawahitech (talk) 15:34, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

[[voy:2019–2020 coronavirus pandemic]] —Granger (talk · contribs) 17:05, 2 April 2020 (UTC)