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Latest comment: 3 days ago27 comments7 people in discussion
Let's bring back our cherished traditions! Wikimedia Small Projects is excited to announce the return of Wikivoyage 13, and this time, we've got two fun activities lined up:
Wikivoyage Asian Month: In collaboration with the Wikipedia Asian Month User Group, we're thrilled to host the second edition of this event. You can find more details at this link.
Wikivoyage Loves Venezuela: Partnering with Wikimedia Venezuela, we're launching the inaugural edition of this event, focused on creating and enhancing articles about Venezuela. Ends Dec 31.
As always, we'd love to hear from the en.wikivoyage community—are you interested in helping organize Wikivoyage Asian Month, Wikivoyage Loves Venezuela, or maybe even both? Your participation can make these events even more special!
Sounds interesting. I don't really want to be an organizer, but I would be happy to participate by adding content related to both Asia and Venezuela. Good luck with the event! Mrkstvns (talk) 15:27, 6 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
I'm happy to grade the articles for Wikivoyage Asian Month, hopefully using the same criteria as we did last year. //shb (t|c|m)22:04, 6 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
I agree with using last year's envoy criteria. In fact, I would say that the global criteria scoring is overly complicated. I don't think we ever used the points system to determine a "winner". Ultimately, the goal is to improve the content of the project. OhanaUnitedTalk page05:10, 7 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
I agree – I think while it's nice to have a winner, most people who contribute to WAM do so for the fun of it, not to win the competition. Winning is just a nice added bonus for whoever contributed the most articles. //shb (t|c|m)05:21, 7 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
I’m all in favor of the idea. However, I think we should focus on Asia. Travel to Venezuela is strongly discouraged by governments around the world, and the risk of getting kidnapped as a tourist is high. It’s just not a travel destination given the current crime epidemic there. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 05:54, 7 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
I think it's fine to still improve our coverage of Venezuela, even if few people will be actively travelling there at present, but at the very least we should have someone who is hopefully from Venezuela to assess those articles. //shb (t|c|m)07:18, 7 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
Hey everyone! I'll break my replies into a few parts:
Just like last year, each community has the freedom to set its own local standards based on what works best for you. No worries if you prefer not to follow the global criteria!
Selfie City: We understand the situation in the country is pretty chaotic right now. We're doing this to help bring more Venezuelan content to other Wikimedia projects—eventually, we hope the crisis will be resolved, and sharing useful info about Venezuela isn’t a bad thing at all.
Hanyangprofessor2: This is the version of Wikipedia Asian Month that's tailored for Wikivoyage. You're more than welcome to join the English Wikipedia edition of Wikipedia Asian Month.
Since Mérida celebrated Japanese Culture Week, we decided to kick off Wikivoyage Asian Month last week. But hey, if your community wants to start a bit later, that's totally fine—no pressure at all!
I'll create a page for this tomorrow or later tonight, hopefully we can kick it off next week (lots of irl matters this week for me:/). //shb (t|c|m)00:43, 19 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
@Hanyangprofessor2 Pretty sure that the English Wikivoyage event will go ahead (I just don't have the time to create the page). The Chinese Wikivoyage event page has already been created but the rules are still pending. Based on what I read, the Chinese edition is reducing the difficulty from every 4000 bytes of improvement for 1 point down to 3500 bytes/point to account for Chinese being a higher information density language. OhanaUnitedTalk page01:41, 19 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
I'd be happy with that. Piotrus' students do a lot of marvellous work! I know we complain about some of the recurring mistakes, but the amount of excellent, colorful content they add is great! Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:11, 19 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
Agreed. Piotrus' student projects tend to be one of the better organised group projects on this site and the outputs, even if they require some cleanup from regulars, is always a net positive. //shb (t|c|m)03:17, 19 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
Yes! I'd add that I hope to work with a professor to create a similar endeavor for a class he's teaching in the spring. I'll be a guest lecturer to guide the students if it does happen. That project will be focused on the U.S., and particularly Florida. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 03:40, 19 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
@SHB2000 thanks! I would also like to mention that, in line with what Plotus is doing, we have an educational program focused on eswikivoyage at a school in Mérida, Venezuela. It might be excellent to document these educational initiatives (past, present, and future). Regards, Lord Ravager (talk) 21:03, 19 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
Ooh, that's nice to hear. It definitely would be nice to document them for sure (though some seem to be hosted on Meta which might make that tricky). //shb (t|c|m)21:15, 19 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
I’m thinking we could set up a global page for Wikivoyage educational stuff—maybe call it "Wikivoyage Education Program" or something like that. I’ll handle that in the next few days. Also, I’ll work on designing a logo for Wikivoyage’s anniversary since it’s been a while since I’ve done one. Lord Ravager (talk) 21:45, 19 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
Make sure to check the instructions for students I have on my user page - I expect they'd be useful for any instructor. I also have an academic paper on teaching on Wikivoyage I hope will get published somewhere (so far it has not been lucky, sigh). Hanyangprofessor2 (talk) 12:14, 20 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
I have to say this is coming through very nicely. I mean I somewhat expected it to go well, but not this nicely. I can very much see this becoming an annual event on this site permanently. //shb (t|c|m)11:30, 9 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
Latest comment: 1 month ago12 comments5 people in discussion
I just traveled from Addis Ababa (Ethiopia) to Hargeisa (Somalia/Somaliland) overland. I did it using local transport only (for example, from Jijiga to the border I sat on a bucket). This route attracts interest because it's a way for people to visit Somalia (at least in the de jure sense) without having to go to Mogadishu. However, when attempting to research how to go about it, I realized that the information on the internet is quite sparse and outdated. I ended up having to figure most of it out myself. Would there be any support for an Addis Ababa to Hargeisa overland (or whatever title) article? I could probably spend my downtime writing it. Brycehughes (talk) 20:42, 13 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
Maybe they'd contribute but I wouldn't hold my breath. Overlanders (4WDers) are a bit of an exclusive travel community due to high entry costs. Brycehughes (talk) 08:55, 14 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
Same – would be really interested (and hopefully this is some good assignment procrastination for me this week :P). //shb (t|c|m)19:51, 14 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
I have been unable to replicate this @Brycehughes on Firefox mobile. Does it occur for you in safe mode? e.g. this url. If not it could be a gadget running on your user account. Try disabling them all to make the issue go away. Jdlrobson (talk) 18:05, 19 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
Jdlrobson You're right - it works with safe mode, so it'll be either a gadget or something in my custom js. I'll have to spend some time going through it all. In the meantime, I may just use your safe mode URL param (thanks for that, it was helpful). Sorry for the bother! Brycehughes (talk) 10:47, 23 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
Latest comment: 1 month ago1 comment1 person in discussion
Hello. Reminder: Please help to choose name for the new Abstract Wikipedia wiki project. The finalist vote starts today. The finalists for the name are: Abstract Wikipedia, Multilingual Wikipedia, Wikiabstracts, Wikigenerator, Proto-Wiki. If you would like to participate, then please learn more and vote now at meta-wiki.
Thank you!
I think an article on pottery would make sense, though I don't know enough to write it. We already mention pottery in many places. China alone has enough centers for an article -- Dehua, Jingdezhen, Yuzhou, Yixing etc, -- & there are many others; searching for "pottery" turns up dozens.
I'd be interested to see such an article on pottery, too. I don't know enough to write about it, but I'll be interested to see what's included in such a pottery article. //shb (t|c|m)11:49, 24 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
Not sure whether they are strictly included in the term "pottery", but tiles (e.g. workshops in Iznik and Kütahya, and used in decorating mosques and monuments in much of the Islamic world) and faience (Delft) could also be covered in such an article. Vidimian (talk) 17:55, 25 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
(On Ceramics) - The UK certainly used to have large ceramics producers ( Stoke on Trent area), although my experience is that modern high end ceramics tend to be smaller niche independents now?.
(Off topic)- There are also other high end crafts to consider, like Glassware ( Dartington, Venice, Waterford).
Native speakers also refer to italiano, Deutsch and Bahasa Melayu. However, this is English-language Wikivoyage, and we use the name that's most used in English: see WV:Naming conventions. So no, this renaming cannot be done based on your argument. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:30, 25 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
Ikan is correct; it should not be renamed. However, adding a redirect at Amazigh so that a search for that will find the article seems reasonable, so I will create that. Pashley (talk) 23:03, 25 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
FYI: Ghosts in the Balcony: A Cross-Country Trip to 58 Theaters Fighting to Survive
Latest comment: 1 month ago6 comments4 people in discussion
Hi all,
I've been using Wikivoyage for years, but much more as a user than contributor. For ages now I've struggled to find a way to map out things when on the go, so I decided to write an app to do just that. It's only on Android, and is called Voyage Map. You can find it here:
I'd love to hear any feedback about it. For now, it's quite simple. It allows you to search near your current location, or search for a place and load articles nearby.
Once in the Map, you can click on a black pin (essentially an wikivoyage page) to get some info about the place. Then you can map the sights that are on that page. I limit it to see and do tags, as well as marker tags with type of see or do. Sights are green pins, and if you click on that, you get some info about the sight.
And that's all for now. I've got lots of ideas for improvements, but it's about finding time to do them.
From what I know, developing on Apple is a pain (with Swift) – and their US$99/year fee to host apps on the app store is the cherry on top. //shb (t|c|m)03:25, 29 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
This is cool! There was a big discussion not too long ago about the desire for a WV app, so it's exciting to see movement on that. The Travel Guide feature of the OsmAnd app is just good enough to be useful, but I don't think anyone from the WV community is involved in that anymore.
As minimal as your new app is, it already feels pretty close to being useful for walking around a destination. Here's a few things I'd like to see next:
Pins for Go listings, so I can find train stations and such.
A more precise-looking pin marker, instead of a wide bubble that sometimes covers up important details like street intersections. I caught myself doing a lot of zooming to get around this.
An easy way to pull up the article after adding a bunch of sights that cover up the article's marker.
A way to jump to the section of an article containing the pin I clicked on, so I can read any prose or context.
Archive all editions of Wikinews, preserving their content.
The implementation (including the timeline, archival method, etc) are the responsibility of the Product & Technology department, but the process should be sensitive to local project contexts and follow inclusive, transparent processes.
The Wikimedia Foundation should support and provide resources to groups exploring new paradigms for Wikimedia news content, such as the proposed “Wikinews Pulse” centralised multilingual headline portal. It should set a fixed timetable (e.g., one year) for these pilot initiatives to demonstrate progress, after which results should be publicly reviewed and further recommendations made.
I think it's pretty safe to say that Wikinews will not exist for much longer in its current state. I suppose it was inevitable, particularly being the only project where even content 1 month old becomes irrelevant (making traditional metrics used to measure progress like number of articles irrelevant), and at least the concerns with how SPTF poorly handled this was heard.
I'm more sad that it had to die this way. Maybe that's just me knowing that Wikinews wouldn't have much of a future from the start, though. //shb (t|c|m)01:15, 28 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
And there won't be any revival of my short-term stint in Bengali Wikinews Incubator, and I actually helped it grow enough to be considered as a valid project. However, due to the lack of interests to work in time-sensitive environments, and given my growing interests outside Wikimedia, I have reduced my Wikimedia activities significantly, which includes quitting the Incubator project. However, I will remain active in Commons, Wikivoyage, and Bengali Wikipedia as long as I can, as my interests in those places haven't gone yet. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 06:10, 28 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
Sbb1413: I hope that you continue to contribute to Wikivoyage. Your contributions have done a lot to strengthen our coverage of Indian destinations. Ground Zero (talk) 13:41, 2 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
I don't think there was ever any way that closing Wikinews would make the (few) dedicated participants happy.
There was a study among cancer patients some years ago. They rated their doctors for communication skills. The researchers then asked the cancer patients what they understood of their medical condition (e.g., whether the cancer is likely to be cured), and separately, they looked up their actual prognosis. If the patient correctly understood their realistic chance of survival, they rated the doctor as being a "bad communicator". If the patient was going to die from cancer, but they falsely believed that the opposite, then they rated the doctor as a "good communicator".
I mention this because there is no way to tell people that their project is going to die, without them thinking that the way you told them is bad. (Also, if any of your loved ones praise their oncologist for being a good communicator, then you should start planning for the funeral.) WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:46, 29 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
@SHB2000 @Koavf Honestly, why does the fact that Wikinews will not exist for much longer in its current state? Compared to Wikipedia, WikiVoyage, Wikimedia Commons, Wikidata, and Wiktionary, this site had less contributors than any big projects out there. Why aren’t editors contributing more to Wikinews, instead of Wikipedia? ~2025-37882-94 (talk) 12:53, 2 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Because Wikinews is the only project where content that's been left for more than a few days becomes irrelevant. Article count is meaningless, and quite frankly, I'm not sure if I'd want to contribute to a project if my edits aren't going to be read after a few days. //shb (t|c|m)21:04, 2 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
'"The timing is definitely not ideal for an issue like this to arise on one of the most ubiquitous aircraft around the (U.S.) holidays," Mike Stengel of AeroDynamic Advisory said.
The thing I'm wondering is whether by the time a warning is added, it will have to be deleted. If there are particular places or airlines that are badly affected, and you are ready to keep on top of this, so that the warnings are removed the same day they no longer apply, go ahead and add some in relevant articles. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:07, 29 November 2025 (UTC)Reply
The article is only 3 days old. I think it takes some time (days or even months) for newly created articles to appear in Destinations. AlasdairW (talk) 09:22, 8 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
It takes more than several months. I have created new pages in April 2025 and they have yet to appear on Destinations map. Does anyone know if it's automatically updated or require manual update? OhanaUnitedTalk page20:42, 9 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Latest comment: 1 month ago8 comments6 people in discussion
Hi all,
Is there any reason why a number of major sights in the See section of some articles do not have lat/long coordinates? For example Altes Rathaus & Spielzeugmuseum and Neues Rathaus in Munich Altstadt (there are 9 in total). Is it because it would make the map too congested? Or it is since they are on the periphery of Marienplatz (which itself does not have coordinates)? Or just because no one put them in? I've not often seen this on other pages, so am not sure if it is a common policy across wikivoyage.
I'm writing an app to map wikivoyage data, and not having these isn't great, but I can probably look them up via the wikidata tag (if a value exists). But it would be nice to have them in the wikivoyage data. Obviously I can add them myself, but I do not know how many thousands (or millions) of sights across wikivoyage might be missing Lat/Long where it should be easy to add.
Another option would be to write a robot to pull in the lat/long from the wikidata entry (which most of these examples have) to fix any missing coordinates. Anyone have experience with doing that? It'd be something I'd be interesting in learning about, but don't have an idea where to start.
It's because no-one has added them. If you add the wikidata code to the listing, markers will appear on the map. This is often easier than adding the coordinates, but both work. Ground Zero (talk) 14:07, 8 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Explicitly adding coordinates is useful if you want to mark a river, lake or some similar large attraction. For example, LakeGeneva is about 20km wide and Wikidata gives its coordinate about 10 km from eithr shore. If you want to place a "pin" on a map of Lausanne a few hundred metres offshore rather than 10km offshore, then use coordinates. Martinvl (talk) 22:00, 8 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
For eat/drink/sleep listings, though, most of the time you will need to manually add coordinates, since Wikidata items don't exist for them. Unfortunately, no quick fix as far as I'm aware, unless someone has the technical skills to write a bot to fetch coordinates automatically. //shb (t|c|m)23:14, 8 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Please don't. Stephen guessed right first time, it would congest the map into a blue smush and no-one would find anything. For instance you can no longer find Viktualienmarkt street because Viktualienmarkt "Buy" has been plonked on top of it. For Marienplatz, I marked Frauenkirche because it's the most prominent structure for miles around, and a city icon. Find it and you can't help but see the adjacent POIs. These pages will merit review when the new U-Bahn line opens in spring. Grahamsands (talk) 09:40, 9 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Coordinates are a means to an end, to help folk find places. If they obstruct you finding places then don't add, ttcf.
What we lack is a co-mapping function, so that markers could be repeated without obscuring the first instance. As it is, since Viktualienmarkt stands in Viktualienmarkt then rigid application of policy means you put a second marker and this becomes the only one visible. My preference is only to mark once, but in a large city page the reader has to scroll back up to find "See #2" before they can pinpoint the buy / eat / do occurrence. I've no idea if this is technically feasible? Grahamsands (talk) 10:49, 9 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
In the ideal world, one would add coordinates everywhere and they would show where useful. In practice, coordinates for a market at a square, or a restaurant in a shopping centre, is not worth adding, as the market or restaurant can easily be found at the location (normally squares or restaurants in shopping centres don't get listings at all, but if it happens to be a Michelin one…). I usually add lat=NA|long=NA and link to the listing of the location (square, shopping centre) in the directions parameter. The downside is that somebody looking at the map will only see the buy listing for the shopping centre, not the eat for the restaurant – they need to check the Eat section for that.
The maps should probably allow for an importance classification, so that only main POIs would show by default when you zoom out. We don't have any such classification now, but I assume it could be implemented, with the numbers added when somebody gets frustrated by the map view of a certain city.
Latest comment: 30 days ago7 comments5 people in discussion
In yesterday's NARWHAL (North American Regional Wiki Hub and Lab) meeting, it was mentioned that since there will be high volume of travellers in summer 2026 to attend the FIFA World Cup, it's suggested that Wikivoyage to improve and translate the contents of 2026 FIFA World Cup page and the 16 host cities in all Wikivoyage languages. OhanaUnitedTalk page21:03, 9 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
I was going to say this, too. Out of the 16 cities, SF is a star, Seattle, Guadalajara, Boston, NYC and Vancouver are guide articles, while LA, Houston, Kansas City, Mexico City, Monterrey, Atlanta, Miami, Philly, Toronto and Dallas are only usable. Maybe it would be good if we can get some of those usable articles up to guide as a goal we can work towards for an editing event. //shb (t|c|m)00:10, 10 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Work on the city pages will have lasting value, while the event will come and go. Perhaps the most urgent for WV-EN are host cities for English-speaking overseas fans, as they will be looking for accommodation and related travel info right now. Three that leap out are Foxborough Mass, Arlington (Texas) and East Rutherford NJ. Grahamsands (talk) 16:02, 10 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Latest comment: 30 days ago11 comments7 people in discussion
I love images, but I know that according to Wikivoyage:Image policy, they should be kept to a minimum. However, under "Photos of businesses" it states:
"If a business has its latitude and longitude specified through either the {{marker}} template or one of the {{listing}} templates ... it is possible to add a photo of that business to the dynamic map using the |image= parameter."
As per my interpretation, yes. You can add an image for every listing on the page using |image= without violating the policy. That's what I do to keep fewer images visible on prose, as per the spirit of the policy. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 16:49, 10 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Agreed. The guideline on minimal use of images applies only to thumbnails visible on the page. It should be noted that those images in all cases except for locally-uploaded fair use images have to be hosted on Wikimedia Commons. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:26, 10 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Thanks for your reply! I had a feeling that was the case, but I just wanted to make sure. I wonder if this could be added to the Wikivoyage:Image policy page, as I feel the wording is a bit unclear and wouldn't be surprised if others found it confusing too:) AskMeAboutGalway!:) (talk) 17:32, 10 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
This is welcome, as the current wording could be summarised as "Miserable Use of Images". It fails to make the positive case for images that grab readers and keep them reading. Grahamsands (talk) 21:33, 10 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
I don't know, but my guess is that the policy of keeping images to a minimum dates back to when our goal was to make guides printable. I think in 2025, having a colorful, appealing online interface is more important for user engagement.
Guys, that's a different argument from stating clearly that links to images put in the image tabs of listings aren't covered by the minimal use of images guidelines, which is the topic of this thread.
That said, as repeatedly stated in previous threads, how many images to use is a style choice. Other guides have done very well with anything from no photos at all to long, unbroken streams of images. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:29, 11 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
As do at least two other people. I doubt the results will be different this time, but it's a neverending discussion that resumes every couple of years. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:30, 12 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Yes. Anyway, let's not have that discussion distract from the easy clarification that the current image policy only applies to images visible on the pages, and that an image= parameter can be added to any listing (those images show on the dynamic map). We might want to write a guideline also for those images, but that would be the theme of a third discussion. –LPfi (talk) 09:53, 13 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Latest comment: 30 days ago1 comment1 person in discussion
Hey all, as you might be aware I've been trying to modernize the listing editor which I have been struggling to keep up to date with recent updates to MediaWiki (including the Parsoid rollout). It currently uses jquery.ui which is an old library that was deprecated in 2017 for MediaWiki and the old version of the code has already broken on various Wikivoyage language projects (thankfully not this one!)
Given few people these days have familiarity with the library and support for the library could be removed at anytime, I have been working on moving it to Vue.js which on the long term would make it a lot easier to maintain through reduction of code and easier to read files, fix bugs, as well as improve overall site performance.
I am at a point where I think I've got the balance right and would like to invite testing before I unleash it on more people.
The Chinese New Year article gives advice about how to experience the holiday as a cultural attraction; the Golden Week holidays article covers practical aspects of travelling during these periods when so many other people in China are travelling too. Maybe there are officially three Golden Weeks, but the Labor Day holiday isn't a full week (at least it wasn't this year), and I don't think it's as big a deal as the other two. For the title, "Golden Weeks in China" is fine with me. —Granger(talk·contribs) 02:41, 15 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Latest comment: 28 days ago1 comment1 person in discussion
Meaning some students of mine are finishing their work now (behind deadlines), and asking for review at https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:Requests_for_comment#Article_review_requests (to be clear: some students still have not asked for a feedback there, despite it being a deadline in late November or so... so check again in a day or few, as I am reminding them to do this).
I can "make them" read the reviews and (hopefully) fix things for a few more days, more or less up to XMAS time, after that the grades will be finalized and the students will vanish.
Latest comment: 24 days ago13 comments6 people in discussion
I've been polishing up the Galway article for a few days now, and I feel like it's very good now. I'm not sure it's quite good enough to be a Star Article yet, but that's what I'm aiming for. The only issue is that the criteria say it needs a map, and I can't make one myself. It also seems like there's a pretty large backlog of map requests, so I'm not sure anyone else would be able to make a map either. My question is: is a map really nescessary? Especially considering nowadays almost everywhere and everyone has constant internet access, so most people probably just look up maps online when traveling. AskMeAboutGalway!:) (talk) 16:02, 16 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
But why is it necessary? Do all that many people even use physical maps anymore? Obviously some people do, but I'm not sure it's enough to warrant it being a necessity. AskMeAboutGalway!:) (talk) 17:43, 16 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
I don't care much for visibility (other articles are just as deserving of the front page spot), I just want it to be an article of very good quality, and I feel it being a Star Article will hold it to that quality. I realize it's probably not star quality yet, I just want to know if I should wait until a map is done before I submit it for feedback. Also wondering just how important a map is, like is it so important that the article can't be good quality without it? (Also I feel like the Star Article criteria are quite vague so am not quite sure what exactly I have to do to improve it) AskMeAboutGalway!:) (talk) 18:30, 16 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
I don't understand why you think a map is unimportant. Almost everyone uses maps, and they're usually online, not paper, just as this one will be. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:31, 16 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
I don't think maps are unimportant, I just feel like most people would probably use Google Maps or Openstreetmap or some other widely-used map, so I'm not sure any given Wikivoyage page needs a map, considering there's many maps available elsewhere too. Also, every page has a dynamic map anyway, and I feel like people probably prefer using that over a static map. I do think static maps are a nice thing to have, and every page should have one if possible, I just think it might be a bit unrealistic to think a page needs a map, given that not many people know how to make a good-quality map. Some pages have been on the map request list for years, if there's only a few map-makers, what if happens if they all leave Wikivoyage? Will no articles be capable of becoming Star Articles until someone willing to make a map comes along? AskMeAboutGalway!:) (talk) 18:42, 16 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
I find that dynamic maps are great for the later stages of planning a trip, i.e., when I'm deciding if my desired hotel is close enough to places I want to see and eat, or when I'm already in the city.
In contrast, I prefer static maps when I'm in the early stages of planning a trip, i.e., where are the most famous landmarks, how do the named neighborhoods relate to each other, where is the train station, what is reachable by metro. I find the dynamic maps too busy for this in larger cities.
If you were to hand-draw a map with the ~10 most important places in Galway, what would that look like? That's what I want to see towards the top of a travel guide. You can certainly write a good travel guide without that, but it won't be the best travel guide, which is what the Star articles are.
Thanks for your perspective! I think you might have changed my mind. I hadn't considered that a dynamic map might be a bit too busy for the initial planning stage. Typically when I plan to visit somewhere, I start with one specific landmark that has captured my interest, and then I plan my day around things that are nearby. I tend to only look at the "bigger picture" of a location after I've already planned what to do. I don't tend to do the "top 10 most important places", because generally what interests me seems to be more niche places.
Here's an interesting fact to consider: I think this probably stems from the fact that I'm autistic, and some autistic people think in a "bottom-up information processing style". Some autistic people prefer to look at small intricate details first, and then learn the "simple overview" later. Meanwhile, non-autistic people tend to have a "top-down information processing style", where they prefer to look at a simple overview first, and then learn the small details.
I tend to forget that most people get overwhelmed with too much info at once, I need to be more considerate of that. What's ironic is that this lengthy reply is probably overwhelming you with info haha, sorry! AskMeAboutGalway!:) (talk) 20:59, 16 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
I realize that you may already be convinced, but I want to address your point that we could farm out maps to Google or Openstreetmap. We could also farm out listings to Tripadvisor, Google, etc. But why would we do that when we can have comprehensive guides in one place? Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:54, 16 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Latest comment: 22 days ago4 comments3 people in discussion
I.e Template:Event? And if so, can the listing template pull down menu for "Type" field be modified to list it as an option? (Currently it doesn't appear to be there)? Friendly ping @SelfieCity from whose recent comment I learned about the existence of this template Hanyangprofessor2 (talk) 13:44, 17 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
I would agree with adding it as an option to add in the source editor. The problem with the pull down menu is that the template works differently from the other listing templates. It doesn't have options for phone number, coordinates, etc. as far as I'm aware. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 16:57, 17 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
The template has several shortcomings; I think it needs work before it should be recommended more visibly. The differences to other templates are one of those problems. I also find its date logic overly complicated at least for some cases. –LPfi (talk) 17:07, 18 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
It would be good to polish it so that I can recommend it to my students next Fall; I often tell them to add information on festivals and like to the 'do' sections. Hanyangprofessor2 (talk) 12:01, 21 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
I see the first issue has already been solved. As for the second, it's a known and tracked bug from Parsoid (the code that renders articles). If my memory serves correctly, it's been pending for a fix for over a year at this point. If I knew how to fix it, it wouldn't be there any more.
Also, as an aside, {{Mapshapes}} typically is used to embed transport routes into articles. The route should probably be merged into that if possible to avoid having loads of dedicated templates for individual transport routes. ― Wauteurz (talk)20:05, 18 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Good to know. I think that route is special, being one tourists might take. Adding other routes makes it harder to maintain, and clutters up the map. Cmglee (talk) 07:17, 19 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
I don't think my point came across correctly. I did not suggest that you add more routes. I'm suggesting that you, instead of inserting a single bus line through a dedicated template, insert that bus line using a template that is already used widely on this site and is made with that exact purpose in mind. Other lines can later on be added with another instance of {{Mapshapes}} if desired. Since the template also uses the group parameter, it can also be hidden from certain maps. In other words, no map clutter has to be made. ― Wauteurz (talk)23:52, 19 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
So, for {{Mapshapes}} the bus line needs to be linked from OpenStreetMap to Wikidata and vice versa, and for that data to appear on Wikivoyage can take a while. If you want to go that route (which I would recommend), Mapshape's template page explains how to achieve that.
Working with what you've already made, the Commons .map files can be inserted using {{Mapshape|type=page|wikicommons=Penang CAT bus route.map}}. {{Mapshape}} also uses the group parameter, so you can filter which mapframes do and do not include the line. ― Wauteurz (talk)11:25, 21 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
I have the impression that my question in response to RolandUnger's remark "show and group parameters could help" was not noticed. So, I repeat: The group parameter is available for {{marker|...}}. Why is it not available for {{listing|...}}, {{see|...}} and more? --FredTC (talk) 00:40, 23 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
|type= and |group= are not the same. |type= (buy, do, drink, eat, go, see, sleep, city, vicinity, or listing) regulates marker properties like the marker color and the affiliation to a map layer, whereas |group= defines the affiliation to an individual map'. The group parameter is really not implemented in Template:Listing/Module:Listing. --RolandUnger (talk) 07:07, 23 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Latest comment: 19 days ago17 comments4 people in discussion
Hello everyone,
I have recently worked on expanding and revising the Toucheng article, including updates to existing listings and the addition of sections such as Buy, Climate, History, and Festivals.
I would be very grateful for any feedback or suggestions you may have for further improvement.
If possible, I would appreciate any feedback as soon as convenient.
@Hong Da Hyeon: Check the links (marked as dead links) for Toucheng Leisure Farm and Ocean Lounge Guest House. Make sure listing names are in English, and Chinese names are in the alt parameter. Add websites and phone numbers to restaurant listings wherever possible. Add coordinates to listings in "Sleep". Add some content to the "Go next" section mentioning nearby destinations travelers could also visit. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 18:06, 22 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Don't delete the templates at the end of the article (geo, article status, etc.) — these are critical for keeping the article recorded in the Wikivoyage system. I have reinstated them this time, but please be careful in the future.
Please make sure listings such as 島的對面 串燒&居酒屋 have the title in English. The Chinese name can be filled in the alt parameter. The section "Eat" looks good, but not "Drink" or "Sleep'.
@Hong Da Hyeon: one other small thing I just noticed. Could you add short descriptions for Gengfang Southwest Coastal Scenic Area and Xietian temple? With those details, I think the article will be up to guide status. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 03:47, 23 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
I edited out the phrase "in Toucheng" from "X is a restaurant in Toucheng" in the "Eat" section. Everything listed in the Toucheng guide is in Toucheng by default. Any other unnecessary location information should be removed from this article, and indeed any other article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:41, 23 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Some of it is good, but it's just her favorites. Everyone else who lives in New York has their own. So I don't see this as a basis for an itinerary article. Btw, La Grande Boucherie is good, and I hope it doesn't become too crowded because of this article, but they have a lot of space, so I think it'll be OK.:-) Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:45, 23 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Latest comment: 5 days ago6 comments2 people in discussion
In Hirosaki, I selected Neputa Village listing and trying to sync between WV and Wikidata. The dialog box doesn't disappear after I selected the items to sync even though the sync went through. And it seems to add an entry each time I click on the sync button. OhanaUnitedTalk page05:34, 27 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Confirmed fixed somewhat. The dialog box disappears now. But when it's synced, the latitude field contains both latitude and longitude. It's also pulling the wrong Wikipedia link despite the Wikidata entry being correct.OhanaUnitedTalk page19:31, 5 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
Latest comment: 13 days ago2 comments2 people in discussion
Hey unfortunately a bug crept into a recent version (v3.15.0) of listing editor which was adding new listings to the top of the article. I just noticed it and quickly fixed it. It was up for 24 hrs.
I was hoping to use RecentChanges to find all edits impacted the bug but realized I can't do that as we don't tag edits made by the listing editor. If someone could create a new tag in Special:Tags I can look at setting that up in future!
@Jdlrobson, I've had that happen off and on for years. I've wondered if the trigger is (1) first make an edit with Extension:VisualEditor, (2) then add a new listing. But I can't trigger it reliably. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:13, 30 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Discussion on Meta about problematic project to edit Wikivoyage
Maybe some of you will want to read the project page and the discussion I'm having with Lucy Iwuala. I don't mean for anyone to gang up on her, so don't do that, but I shouldn't be speaking into a void with none of you knowing what we're discussing. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:24, 30 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
We had this conversation before in April 2024. As I pointed out in that conversation back then, someone who's unfamiliar with our project didn't do consultation with the community before running an event. This time it looks like a "good intention, bad execution" event. OhanaUnitedTalk page04:43, 31 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
I’d argue that there is a limit for how much we should tolerate events that are in good intentions. These events only waste time from project regulars trying to clean up all their mess for limited new travel content. If these bad executions are repeated (as has been the case with various Nigeria expeditions from this same group of editors), I sadly think we shouldn’t hesitate to potentially explore implementing community bans. //shb (t|c|m)05:37, 31 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
What is a community ban and how could it be done? I'm not seeing it. Besides, the whole problem is that we didn't know about this project in advance, so it took us a while to deduce what was happening and figure out how much of it was plagiarism and/or violated WV:What is an article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:47, 31 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Community ban is basically synonymous with a user ban. There’s a few other things Lucy has done that I do not feel the slightest comfortable with her organizing an event on this project that I will nominate her for a user ban when I come home. //shb (t|c|m)13:40, 31 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
I disagree with bannng Lucy. In the discussion, she's been cooperative and is doing what we are asking. The issues the Nigeria team have made are genuine mistakes, not bad faith vandalism, and can be corrected in the future if the event is repeated.
Lucy sits on the Regional Grants Committee. Members on the committee make funding decisions for grant applications in the regions, providing knowledge and expertise to applicants to support successful movement activities (emphasis are mine). I think we all agree that this event is harmful to Wikivoyage and unsuccessful due to most articles created being out-of-scope or copyright violations. Although the role is likely voluntary (i.e. not compensated), the event was covered by prizes that is likely paid through a grant by WMF. Given that she edited this project, she really should have known what is acceptable and what isn't, and should have proactively identified these issues with the event organizer. Is there a way to communicate to grants team that inexperienced editors with minimal Wikivoyage editing should consult with the community first and seek approval prior to approving the grant? In my real life work, I evaluate grants on Northern Canada research projects that includes Indigenous population. If the proposal doesn't consult with the stakeholders and local community members, the grant proposal gets a really low score or downright rejected. User:Piotrus/User:Hanyangprofessor2 does his classes the proper way: giving us a heads-up in advance, helps communicate rules to students and resolve issues soon after it emerges. This is the proper way to run engagement events. The WikiForHumanRights 2025 in Nigeria is a bad example of how an event was run (no notice, organizer abandons their duty to monitor, community has to spend time and effort to cleanup). How can a member of the regional grants committee not spot this issue? OhanaUnitedTalk page15:53, 1 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
Why is no Wikivoyager on the Regional Grants Committee? Is there a way to appeal above their heads? Who is just above them on the Wikimedia hierarchy? Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:48, 1 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
How would we ban any of these projects effectively if a huge part of the problem is that we usually don't know about them in advance and just figure out they're going on because of the nature of a group of recent edits? Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:52, 2 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
Grants are usually not given if the lead organisers are blocked on at least one project with good reason, which is why I've brought it up in this thread before (though I now realise that wasn't super obvious). Or we could potentially explore making Wikivoyage:Organising events a full policy (a step up from a guideline) and mandate the notification (or the organisers risk facing a block, hindering their ability for future grants). Saves us a lot of time cleaning up their mess. //shb (t|c|m)02:21, 4 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
Absolutely. Let's make that a policy going forward and make it absolutely clear that they need to get and take into account our input while the project is proposed and not later. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:06, 4 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
Could this be framed such that it's a requirement for grants involving Wikivoyage from the grant side without needing to change guideline on our side? We're already a small project and I don't want to impose more roadblocks to innocent event organizers who will further bring more editors to our project just because WMF grant recipients didn't follow the rules. OhanaUnitedTalk page05:32, 4 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
It would be good if it could, but as User:AlasdairW pointed out, this project was not funded, yet it still caused havoc on this site. So requiring due consultations for funding is not sufficient. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:13, 4 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
It seems obvious that any project that wants to make substantial edits to a WMF project like Wikivoyage should consult with the community. WMF has a long history of accepting poor grants, some of then little better than scams, as long as they come from Global South or some broadly understood unpriviliged group:( This is just one of many, many examples (and that coincides with their reduction of funding to important stuff like WikiJournals). Now, everything can be done better, and nothing is perfect; so it would be nice to figure we can improve this. Side note: I do not get any funds for my class project, in case anyone is wondering, it's all done by me in my capacity as the volunteer (the university doesn't care either). One would hope that folks who actually get $$$ for this could try to at least match volunteers... Piotrus (talk) 06:06, 2 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
@OhanaUnited: I agree that what's happened is wrong — I'm only advocating against banning the organizer, not for supporting the event in its current state. I agree that we need to see changes from participating events. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 17:31, 2 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
Even when events are badly organized, they have the potential to bring us new long-term contributors. There is value to us being hospitable even when we have to enforce important rules. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:11, 31 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
In theory, but can you think of any truly helpful users who have become regulars as a result of bad projects organized outside of Wikivoyage without consultation with us? Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:06, 31 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
Agreed, the number of new productive long-term editors we’ve gained from these poorly
To be fair, though, that's true of any expedition with a specified time duration, including the previous one in South Korea. However, that expedition still had a great impact on our coverage in several Asian countries.
And to be fair, I don't think any of my students became contributors (I don't keep tabs, but at least here, we would notice them). 99.99% of such projects pretty much are about one off effor; a few folks can make an occasional edit here and there, but to get a proper highly active volunteer, that's... one in a million? Don't expect it to happen. Piotrus (talk) 06:08, 2 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
It's probably less than that, since Wiki Edu classes have had fewer than a million students and more than one reasonably active long-term editor (maybe not consistently 100 edits/month, but more than 100 edits/year). WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:48, 3 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
I had forgotten the specifics of that thread - thanks for linking it! But this has been a repeated problem with campaigns to add content on places in Africa without discussion on Wikivoyage beforehand. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:37, 31 December 2025 (UTC)Reply
I have been looking at some of the grant applications on meta:Grants:Regions/Sub-Saharan Africa. One of the questions being answered in applications is "11. How did you discuss the idea of your project with your community members and/or any relevant groups? Please describe steps taken and provide links to any on-wiki community discussion(s) about the proposal. (required) You need to inform the community and/or group, discuss the project with them, and involve them in planning this proposal. You also need to align the activities with other projects happening in the planned area of implementation to ensure collaboration within the community." Some application have said that they announced their plans on meta:Talk:Wikimedia User Group Nigeria, which does appear to get any actual feedback.
I think we need to have a clear policy on how we expect to be consulted before grant applications are submitted. This could be an addition to Wikivoyage:Organising events or a separate similar page. It would be better to have a dedicated page for the consultation rather than doing this in the pub. Then anybody can readily note an objection if a grant application is made for something involving WV without consultation - members of a grant committee should be able to quickly see whether or not our policy has been followed.
Thanks very much for looking into this and for your thoughts! I think it's fine for there to be a dedicated page to discuss possible editing events that would take place on or include Wikivoyage, but the thread on that page should also be linked here or possibly on Requests for comment for greater visibility. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:25, 2 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
Level of participation, borrowed from w:Public participation (decision making) I think I found the grant page for the current funded project, which is meta:Grants:Programs/Wikimedia Community Fund/Rapid Fund/WikiForHumanRights 2025 in Nigeria (ID: 23478676). It lists semmy1960 as the applicant and Lucy being the trainer and reviewer for Wikivoyage. semmy1960 only has 191 edits in our project and has not edited here since January 2022. @AlasdairW Sorry for being blunt here. Posting a notice on the meta:Talk:Wikimedia User Group Nigeria doesn't really count as consultation or engagement with the community. That page appears to be lightly visited and monitored, as shown by lack of replies in overwhelming majority of the 580+ conversations in the past 4 years on that page. This type of informing or consultation ranks low in the public participation, and sometimes characterized as "tokenism" or "checkbox exercise". In my view, the "Wikivoyage Nigeria Awareness:Promoting Open Travel Knowledge" (POTK) would have scored higher than the "WikiForHumanRights 2025 in Nigeria" (WfHR 2025) that we're discussing because POTK organizer, Favourdare123 has more Wikivoyage experience than semmy1960 or Lucy. Favourdare123 has over 1000 edits here and last edited in November 2025. This highlights another uncomfortable question for the grant committee's evaluation process. Why is POTK, a project requiring fewer funding, well-planned and experienced contributor/organizer's rapid grant funding being denied while WMF funds projects with newbies training newbies? OhanaUnitedTalk page19:58, 2 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
It sounds like some clarification might be in order to differentiate between "talk to your organization's members" and "talk to the project/website you plan to contribute to". Both of these could be "talk to your community".
I think what we're looking for is a step in the process that says something like "If you're planning to hold a training event or contest, please add a link showing that you announced this plan on the wikis where the editing will happen"?
How did you discuss the idea of your project with your community members and/or any relevant groups? Please describe steps taken and provide links to any on-wiki community discussion(s) about the proposal. (required) You need to inform the community and/or group, discuss the project with them, and involve them in planning this proposal. You also need to align the activities with other projects happening in the planned area of implementation to ensure collaboration within the community.
Often, this kind of notification includes relevant affiliate members and on-wiki communication notification spaces or listings of events, but the exact places varies depending on the project and Wikimedia community involved. What I am hearing here is a need for applicants to provide more direct notification on Wikivoyage, and potentially to revise the language of this question to make this requirement clearer. To support this, what page(s) are best to use for informing Wikivoyage community members about proposed events? One other related matter I wanted to note is that community notifications for Rapid Funds often result in no community feedback for the organizer. This is not necessarily a problem, but we still feel it is important to for organizers to extend an opportunity for community feedback and comments on funded projects where needed. I JethroBT (WMF) (talk) 22:53, 8 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
I JethroBT (WMF), that sounds correct. We think that there needs to be a small clarification in the general process.
This page (our "village pump") is the best, most visible place to post about editing events (or anything, really) for the English Wikivoyage. I believe this is true for all the languages of Wikivoyage, but of course each language requires a separate notification, because they don't read ours, and we don't read theirs. Notifications don't need to be elaborate ("Hey, we're planning an event. See m:Link if you're interested in the details" will do), though for this particular Wikivoyage, event planners should expect us to give them lots of friendly advice.
I don't think that Willy's account is active here, so the ping probably didn't go through. Please pass him a link in Slack or e-mail when you have a moment. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:30, 9 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
@WhatamIdoing: Thanks for this response, and I've already contacted him separately about this matter. I also wanted to offer one other consideration for the future. While Wikivoyage is focused on less compared to other Wikimedia projects in funded work, we do see it sometimes come up in proposals. Depending on how many proposals we receive, it could mean that this board will end up receiving a lot of individual notices from organizers. This might be OK for now, but in the future, if it ends up creating a lot of clutter so that it's challenging to read other notices or discussions relevant to Wikivoyage, the community may want to consider designating a separate place in the future specific to proposed events. Just something to keep in mind for the future. I JethroBT (WMF) (talk) 17:59, 9 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
I think we could handle an average of one notice per week on this board, but if we need to split it off, we might point them at the talk page for Wikivoyage:Expeditions.
I thought we had agreed above that all proposed events involving edits to this Wikivoyage should be announced on the talk page of Wikivoyage:Organizing events, with a link to the thread here in the Travellers' pub, but let's make a clear decision. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:24, 9 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
Latest comment: 8 days ago12 comments5 people in discussion
While trying to update only the Wikidata item of the Dumurjala Sports City listing at Howrah#Do, a bug clears the Bengali name in |alt= as well as its location in |address= (diff). I have faced the same issue minutes earlier while updating the AJC Bose Indian Botanic Garden listing at Howrah#See, where the location got removed after updating it (diff), and I had to revert it afterwards. I'm using Vivaldi currently. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 12:03, 2 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
I confirm that I just had the same bug in Mahjong#Buy. I first used source editor, then used listing editor to fill in more info. The listing editor showed most fields as blanks. As soon as I submitted, my previously filled parameters were wiped. I had to reinsert the same parameters again in listing editor to save. If I click on the same listing again, the listing editor shows most fields as blank again. Pinging @Jdlrobson since meta:Wikipedia 25 is coming up in 2 weeks (drawing the largest crowd each year thanks to public-facing banners) and there will be new editor training activities happening all around the world. This bug will be an impediment to edit-a-thons and trainings. OhanaUnitedTalk page21:43, 2 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
I agree. I was in WikiConference North America 2025 in October and my takeaway from chatting with developers is that it should be migrated to gadget because it's used in 5+ languages (the documentation says it's currently deployed in 11 Wikivoyage languages) and to ensure sufficient technical resources are allocated. OhanaUnitedTalk page06:05, 3 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
@OhanaUnited It is a gadget... currently only maintained by me. Do you mean migrated to an extension? The work I am doing would make that an option as I really dont want to be the only one maintaining this. I just need to get it over the finish line with beta testers.
I set up your user script, but didn't end up using the feature as I usually make edits in source.
I would like to be able to opt-in once to be a general beta tester, and then devs can push changes to me from time to time as needed. I don't know what's feasible for implementing that - maybe a user role, or asking for a one-time script install? mw.storage.set( 'beta-tests', ...)Gerode (talk) 17:22, 3 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
I'd like to opt in all advanced users of the site to the beta before pushing changes to all users.
I could potentially push the beta to all Checkuser / administrators since those users tend to be active here and very quick to let me know about issues. Would that make sense? Jdlrobson (talk) 18:34, 3 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
Latest comment: 4 days ago5 comments5 people in discussion
Why are the maps in {{geo}} and {{mapframe}} different? (Ie in geo the markers have different shapes for different categories, vs in mapframe they're all the same pin shape)
I'm sure there's probably some historical explanation for this, but as a new user, it just feels kind of weird. Personally I much prefer the {{geo}} map. Is there a solid reason why they're different, or is it just an oversight? AskMeAboutGalway!:) (talk) 17:57, 3 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
Someone may correct me if I'm wrong, but to my knowledge, {{geo}} mainly exists for printing maps, whereas {{mapframe}} is for web use. Though I have seen the geo map being used as the main map on itwikivoyage, so maybe there's some other explanation to it that I'm not aware of (cc @Andyrom75:). //shb (t|c|m)09:00, 4 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
I often open the geo map in another tab when looking at an article. One useful feature of the geo map is getting lat/longs of a location by right clicking on it. A problem is that geo maps don't show markers for listings that only have the Wikidata field, but missing lat/longs. The numbers can also get out of sync as a result. AlasdairW (talk) 13:18, 4 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
{{geo}} uses external/legacy poimap2.php script, whereas {{mapframe}} uses kartographer framework shared with wikipedia. I doubt anyone maintains/uses the former, esp. outside WV. I too would like e.g. the special icons for restaurants (instead of just color), but... somene would have to implement it:) -- andree20:11, 7 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
As User:AskMeAboutGalway assumed it is for historical reasons. At the time when the Kartographer was established all Wikivoyages used previous map tools developed by user Mey2008 since 2012. Later the Kartographer was used in the English Wikivoyage only to show mapframe maps and full-screen maps after clicking on a marker. So, there was a mixture of old map tools like {{geo}} and mapframe. Only at the German Wikivoyage old map tools were replaced by new Kartographer tools. Of course, the way to generate the maps are different: {{geo}} produces an external link to a different server where the map is generated by the PHP script poimap2.php. In case of Kartographer this has to be done with JavaScript in the local wiki. That's why I wrote the de:MediaWiki:Gadget-MapTools.js. If the map/globe symbols is getting a click event then the JavaScript-based map generation is started. The most important advantage of the latter is that the map is identical in style containing all features like mapshapes.
The old map tool is searching for markers in the mediawiki source code instead of the HTML code. If there are no written coordinates then this marker will be ignored. The JavaScript is using a JavaScript variable named wgKartographerLiveData which is part of the article and which contains all information including the type/group names like see, sleep etc.
My phone is Oppo with a browser just called Browser (cannot find a maker), as well as the Chrome browser. Both browsers have the problem. On my Windows computer I use MS Edge and if I switch the page to Mobile view, there is a similar problem, in this case collapsing the section does not work. FredTC (talk) 09:11, 11 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
On my Windows PC, I have switched to mobile view on both Chrome (default browser) and Edge, and the V button works flawlessly. Maybe check your browsers and your mouse/touchpad/touchscreen. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 09:46, 11 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
Switching to 2022 did not change a thing. So, I have the same problem with two different devices and three different browsers. FredTC (talk) 10:33, 11 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
The legacy parser is not compatible with the listing editor.
You have two options
1) Change the value of "Use the new Parsoid wikitext parser" to default in your preferences.
Both options will address the issue. I noticed this but didn't think anyone would be using the old legacy parser on mobile. I can patch the listing editor to disable automatically if for some reason you are intentionally avoiding Parsoid. Jdlrobson (talk) 03:19, 12 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
Thanks, I did the first one. I switched it off because there was no explanation why I should/could use it or what it does. But I'm still curious what in the problem-pages caused this problem, because most pages did not have the problem. FredTC (talk) 05:06, 12 January 2026 (UTC)Reply
Done – see Wikivoyage:Wikivoyage 13. The only thing that hasn't been decided on yet is the start date. I'm personally willing to accept all submissions from tomorrow (so that Piotrus' students can participate) – your thoughts? //shb (t | c | m) 02:59, 19 November 2025 (UTC)
